Keystone Pipeline cancellation was 'mistake,' economist under Obama, Clinton admits — and slowing oil permits, 'being hostile' toward natural gas

[Fuzzy1975]

Oh yeah, those evil Cannadians.
That was not the issue. The issue is that an alliance of America-haters and useful idiot Greta Thunbergists thought it would be a good idea to not have a source of cheap, reliable, clean and safe natural gas for US consumers. They got a guy named Biden to buy into it. He promised it would happen if he was elected. He fulfilled his campaign pledge. Economics 101 kicked in.
Now, Dems have to blame somebody and Russians and Saudis are their new punching bags. Bad form and worse policy.

JFC, seriously, if you wish to make an argument for something, please please please get your facts right. Keystone XL if built,was to transport 830,000 bpd of crude, tar sands distilled oil. There was no "natural gas" portion of the project.

XL was an expansion, which would increase the crude flowing to US from the Athabasca Tar Sands, as well as having additional capacity for local crude from Montana and North Dakota add in to the line.

Greta and America haters aside, they had nothing at all to do with the cancellation of the project.

The project faced many legal hurdles,including how Trump reversed the Obama administration orders. If Trump had taken the time to sort out the "details" contained in the APA,NEPA and the ESA ( acts) perhaps the permit Trump issued would have held up in court. Instead it failed. Trump handed the Environmentalist a win, by failing to "understand"the complex legalities surrounding the whole process.

So if you really want to bitch about XL's cancellation, start with Obama, then move on to Trump, and then to Biden. Keep in mind that you can thank/blame Biden only for for ending the legal court cases that were on going, since they "died" when he cancelled the permit.

XL was not moving during the period of Nov 2018, due to cases in court, and XL was stilled tied up in legal challenges when Biden took office.

 

[wallstreetguy]

JFC, seriously, if you wish to make an argument for something, please please please get your facts right. Keystone XL if built,was to transport 830,000 bpd of crude, tar sands distilled oil. There was no "natural gas" portion of the project.

XL was an expansion, which would increase the crude flowing to US from the Athabasca Tar Sands, as well as having additional capacity for local crude from Montana and North Dakota add in to the line.

Greta and America haters aside, they had nothing at all to do with the cancellation of the project.

The project faced many legal hurdles,including how Trump reversed the Obama administration orders. If Trump had taken the time to sort out the "details" contained in the APA,NEPA and the ESA ( acts) perhaps the permit Trump issued would have held up in court. Instead it failed. Trump handed the Environmentalist a win, by failing to "understand"the complex legalities surrounding the whole process.

So if you really want to bitch about XL's cancellation, start with Obama, then move on to Trump, and then to Biden. Keep in mind that you can thank/blame Biden only for for ending the legal court cases that were on going, since they "died" when he cancelled the permit.

XL was not moving during the period of Nov 2018, due to cases in court, and XL was stilled tied up in legal challenges when Biden took office.

I stand corrected. I should have known about oil sands. I wrote about them for a previous employer (study in feasibility, investment, etc).
Well done.

 

[PaxNurgle]

Picking up where Rightguide left off, eh? Or maybe you are RG.

He is.

He is also Sugardaddy1 and a few other people as well.

I agree with both the need to wean the economy off of oil dependency, and, ironically, the need for energy independence and as a result have mixed feelings about Keystone. You cannot simply shut off oil consumption overnight without a huge and possibly fatal shock to the economy. You cannot turn off the spigot of oil without an alternative source of energy available to meet the same energy needs, and the U.S. is simply not even close to there yet.

 

[jomar]

Not that this is a definitive point, but I have several friends in the oil/gas industry who all said independently that keystone wasn’t at all needed.

 

[JohnEBbad]

It was the message sent and it wasn't the only action taken.

It was just the one that caused the most immediate job loss.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

It was the message sent and it wasn't the only action taken.

It was just the one that caused the most immediate job loss.

What job losses?
If XL had been built, that construction would have created a need for about 11,000 total jobs. None of the jobs would have been long term. IE Three years or so for the construction phase. Then guess what. Those jobs go poof. The people working in the industry move on to the next project.

Since XL was never built, those people were employed in other projects, or capacities.

But please keep on commenting on how many temporary constructions jobs were lost.....it fits right in with your mindset.

 

[JohnEBbad]

You seem to be celebrating no new jobs...


Amazingly myopic perspective.


You leave out the ancillary jobs associated with any major construction project not to mention the long-term maintenance and other related jobs. You have a cartoonish and simplified view of economic activity.


(Not to mention the hat-in-hand begging of the Saudis, "Please sir, may we have some more?"

And what if they decide to cut us off again. Were you alive when they past did that?)

 

[JohnEBbad]

You need to read your Bastiat on the seen and unseen. Start with the Broken Window...

 

[ll74]

The number of temporary jobs was large, but all of them were absorbed by other projects (like those initiated by the infrastructure law). The number of long term jobs were small, involving contractors for short term jobs and likely Canadian management jobs from Canada.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

You seem to be celebrating no new jobs...

No I am pointing out, there were no "new" jobs. Just the potential for 68 million man hours of construction work if XL was built. I get you have difficulty with these concepts...

You leave out the ancillary jobs associated with any major construction project not to mention the long-term maintenance and other related jobs. You have a cartoonish and simplified view of economic activity.

If constructed XL would have added in around 100 positions full time positions max. Maintenance is carried about by TC, which has existing crews, adding in 3800 km's of line would not add much of a work load. Maybe educator yourself on pipeline maintenance, there are almost 3 million miles of pipelines in the US. Adding in 3000 or so new miles would do fuck all to bump up maintenance crew sizes.

(Not to mention the hat-in-hand begging of the Saudis, "Please sir, may we have some more?"

Strangely enough Canada is still producing those barrels. We are just not shipping as many a day to the US as if XL was in service. Instead we found other markets, and can sell it at a better price since we don't have to follow NAFTA rules. I call that win for Canada.

And what if they decide to cut us off again. Were you alive when they past did that?)

1972...chuckles yes what a shit show... gave rise to the japans auto imports....I found the 1980 beer strike ( which I might add caused way more issues than the "oil crisis" did to me) to be more detrimental over all.

 

[jaF0]

Well, gollee Sgt Carter, lookee there .....

Oil leak shuts down Keystone Pipeline​

The Hill on MSN.com|26 minutes ago
The massive Keystone Pipeline has been shut down after oil was found to be leaking into a Kansas creek. TC Energy said it shut down the pipeline at 8 p.m. Wednesday after a pressure drop in the system.


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