I can't get away from it...

[AchtungNight]

I've been working on a long LW piece. As I write, I cannot get the nagging thought out of my mind that "they will not understand this one, either." I know my storytelling style, I can read my own work and have it make sense in more ways than one, I can connect the threads and it's a coherent narrative to me... but when I publish here it feels like those same things I'm literally writing out are rendered invisible. Either no one cares to pay attention or they just can't fathom it. I have a problem.

Does anyone here experience anything similar? Does anyone have any relevant advice?

Advice from a mentor I knew once- when trying to manipulate minds, make your audience think, wonder, and laugh. Have your characters make odd sense with their motives and actions, show readers startling developments, and crack jokes. This can deter all but the foulest and fairest trolls

Far as LW goes, you can either ignore its troublesome denizens and post there anyway or seek an alternative category and hope for the best. Given how people seem to be giving me naught but 3s and 4s on my original works lately, I may just do the first thing next time I write a story about infidelity or swinging and shrug.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I've been working on a long LW piece. As I write, I cannot get the nagging thought out of my mind that "they will not understand this one, either." I know my storytelling style, I can read my own work and have it make sense in more ways than one, I can connect the threads and it's a coherent narrative to me... but when I publish here it feels like those same things I'm literally writing out are rendered invisible. Either no one cares to pay attention or they just can't fathom it. I have a problem.

Does anyone here experience anything similar? Does anyone have any relevant advice?

It happens. I've posted stories and then heard from several readers, even other authors, who loved them but for reasons that had almost nothing to do with the reason why I wrote them. They looked straight past what I thought was the heart of the story, and focussed on something relatively superficial.

On a good day, maybe 10% of readers might click with the things that were important to me in the story. Past that, I have to just mutter "death of the author" and let people take what they choose from it, because they're going to do that anyway.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I've been working on a long LW piece. As I write, I cannot get the nagging thought out of my mind that "they will not understand this one, either." I know my storytelling style, I can read my own work and have it make sense in more ways than one, I can connect the threads and it's a coherent narrative to me... but when I publish here it feels like those same things I'm literally writing out are rendered invisible. Either no one cares to pay attention or they just can't fathom it. I have a problem.

Does anyone here experience anything similar? Does anyone have any relevant advice?

It is to be expected. You see your own writing through your own lenses and you see exactly what you wanted to convey to readers. It makes perfect sense to you. They see something that depends on their own mindset, moral stances, education, taste, and god knows what else. Some of them will see only plain letters and won't see anything past the literal meaning of your words. Some will see a part of your idea. A few will see all of it. Some will even see something beyond your own idea, some new meaning that makes sense to them. There is some frustration but also some beauty in this concept. You might even end up liking what some reader saw in your story, some new meaning that you never intended to convey, but then when the reader points it out, you can't help loving it as it adds more depth to your story. If only they all cared to tell us what they thought of the story...

In my opinion, the real frustration when writing porn/erotica is that readers won't really engage, that due to the nature of the story, they won't even try to look for deeper meaning, because many of them see it as low-level writing.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I understand LW is a dangerous place for this, but it's also the perfect category for my story. This is because of the point of the story, the fact that it's a character piece and it's serious. I feel like I can't put it in Fetish because the core of the story as you're talking about isn't the sexuality at all. It's more emotional than sexual.

Here's the ugly truth: I don't know who in this world would get it. At the heart of it is sadness, particularly in its second part. One could also place misguided guilt and sorrow, but most of it is just raw sadness. I just... don't want to give it away.

My goal is for readers to understand and empathize and maybe even change their minds.

I'm not sure how to answer your last paragraph. Can you explain the metaphor?

LW is a dangerous place, and you won't find empathy there unless you write a BTB story.

You can BURN the cheating bitch to the extreme, and those whose wives cheated on them IRL will empathize and reward you with a 5.

Otherwise, many of the readers in LW skim through the stories and rate them based on their overall impressions. Details which you spent hours fleshing out with the perfect wording to portray the character in just the right light are skipped, and you'll get comments saying, "there was no reason for that ...". You can point to the passages in the story which prove it, but to no avail.

There is a minority of readers in LW who appreciate a good "extra-marital fun" story. But the majority of the readers there are "monogamous-only" types who 1-bomb any extra-marital sex story which does not end in divorce.

If you're really looking for empathy, choose a different category, or appreciate that rare solo comment which comes from the one person who says (from my story "What Were You Thinking?"):
***********************
by Anonymous user on 07/10/2023

This could be my story. Not sure how it makes me feel but it does not get anymore realistic than this.
***********************
Most of the other 84 comments thought it was a shitty story, and it's now at 3.32.

 

[lovecraft68]

I just went through this with my Halloween entry. Now its not in LW, but as time rolls on I see a lot of the "Guy was a wimp" and "Tired of this feminism" type comments. As I went through this story there is an element in there that even a couple years ago I would have never hesitated on, but now I thought "Yeah, I'll get some crap from the man babies on this" and found myself ready to delete a line or two where the sister was busting the brother's chops(as siblings always do to each other) and they weren't nasty comments just little tweaks, but OMG a woman made fun of a man reeeeeeeeee!

As I lingered on the line I got pissed off at myself for even considering removing a line because of what some sexist shitstain might say. I don't need their five vote, I don't need their approval, don't want the support of their kind, but most important, I don't ever want to curtail my writing because it might offend someone-especially if its not an actual offense, just perceived-the same way I don't force myself to write things I know will pander to another faction

All of our stories should always be our story done our way which is true to our muse, and the hope is people like it, but if not, you held true to your vision.

Coldly put, we don't know these people, nor will we ever meet them, so who the fuck cares if Joeylikesboobies72 bombed your piece?

 

[NoTalentHack]

Firstly, if William Shakespeare himself wrote a story with an unrepentant cuckoldress and her feminized servant and posted it on LW, he'd be lucky to crack 3.00. Scores in LW are less about the quality of the piece and more about how much it conforms to the most vocal element's worldview.

Secondly, the prevailing wind on this thread isn't wrong exactly - there certainly are pieces that not everyone is going to get and which you should go ahead and write anyway.

But let's explore the issue in more detail.

Who are the people who are going to get this story? Where do they hang out (not maybe on LW)? What, at the heart, is there for them to get? What might be preventing them from getting it?

It's entirely possible, as an author, to have something to say, but be struggling to get the heart of a piece across.

To extend your box metaphor, perhaps past breaking, what does the box look like to people before they open it. If we imagine it as a gift wrapped present under the tree - what are it's dimension? How heavy does it feel like when I shake it? Most importantly, if it could be mistaken for a PlayStataion 5 and I unwrap it and its a bust of Aristotle, how am I going to feel?

I want to piggyback onto this. The score in LW is tilted by the number of people that will hate-vote there compared to other categories. I’m not saying it’s the only thing affecting a score (there are plenty of poorly rated BTBs, moving on stories, etc.) but I’m pretty sure there’s a group of folks that want cuckolding stories, in particular, pushed back out to Fetish, where they used to mostly be.

I’ll be honest: I didn’t read this one when it first showed up, because I saw the scat tag and noped right out. I kind of agree that, with that tag alone, it should have gone in Fetish. LW’s readership, as a whole, is sexually conservative. Any bondage north of a mask, some handcuffs, and a bit of spanking is out. Anal and “Daddy” talk in my stories have both gotten negative comments. Scat? Yeah, no. That, by itself, could probably account for the low readership. And it’s not even all that low for a cuckold story; the two chapters of My Cuckold Wedding surrounding it are both relatively near it in terms of views. But there are SO many more problems than that.

If we’re being honest? I’m surprised it did that well. As usual, your writing is good in a technical sense, with nice word choice, sentence construction, etc.; that’s not the problem. The problem is that you came in REALLY hot in this one. I know you’re trying to fight misogyny, but misandry ain’t the way to do it, which is what this reads like. The first half-dozen paragraphs honestly read like the author hates at least this man and possibly all men. For those that haven't read any of the story, here's the intro:

One high white light shone down from within the ceiling of the narrow, gray room: our little ragdoll's only source of warmth for the foreseeable future. "Little" wouldn't quite describe the man, however, bloated blue as he was.

His round, bald head reflected the light with only a ring of dark brown hair left around his ears--all of it greasy, all of it gross. Must've spent too much of his sad life complaining on the internet. Disgusting hairs scattered about the blubber of his chest and thighs, but the beer gut was the worst. It would've popped if a needle had been introduced to its surface.

Balloon Boy was already bound, with a tight rope around his chest and arms and a tighter gag in his mouth-hole. There would be no more pithy objections coming out of that gob any time soon. He laid face-up on a metal table, cold to the touch, eyes blazing in the heat of the white light above him. His only clothes were a pair of gray boxers darker than the wall. He was truly a creature beneath contempt.

He might've stood up and stumbled out of the room had his legs not been tied together, as well. He was at least able to shift upwards and, in horror, witness the arrival of the woman who could have only been his captor.

She was tall and clothed in all black leathers, her pale face jutting out at androgynous angles and her dark hair wrapped into one long ponytail behind her head. A long black riding crop graced her skeletal fingers. As she approached, she hit it against her free hand with a menacing grin.

"Guess we won't be hearing any more of your complaints," she said in her low drawl, in spite of her apparent enticement at the big balloon's captivity in her hands. "Such a shame, isn't it?" she breathed, her crimson lips pouting mockingly at his horrified gaze.

The black leather serpent took little time in dragging the big blubbering buffoon down to lay upon his fat stomach rather than his unshapely back. She only took the opportunity to stand up straight again and stick her leather-wrapped butt in his slobbering face. Being gagged, he had no choice but to kiss it.

The demon turned around again, only to spit in his face and give it a light smack. All the while, he must have been thinking: Why am I letting this happen to me? What kind of man am I to let this happen to me? What kind of husband would--but none of that meant a bloody thing to the leather-cropper.

She lifted him up only to throw him back down onto the cold metal table the way he was when she arrived. His immense weight wasn't hard to manipulate as long as he was bound.

Helpless, he struggled in his bindings no more. The riding crop came down hard on his left nipple, and he winced. The mistress giggled softly in response. "If you had a safeword, it would be ignored," she said. Another nip, another hit, another wince, another giggle.

Then, the mistress leant down close to her captive's left ear. "I bet your wife's having fun," she whispered. With that, she slammed the crop's painful edge down on his gut, just to show him they weren't playing around regardless.

The blubbery man made a little spasm across the table, but stayed mostly still. What would soon come next would show him a spasm.

It goes on further to include the phrase that shows up in the comments of LW stories sometimes, "fag cuck shit," as a thing the man needs to be deprogrammed from as she literally shits on his face. This is on the first page. Hell, this is all in the prologue!

cont.

 

[NoTalentHack]

More nuanced takes in LW are always welcome, at least by me. This isn’t nuanced. At all. On any level. If you want to convince, you have to convince, not just present a worldview—one antithetical to the vast majority of your audience, antithetical to the point of insult—and expect them to have a road to Damascus moment. It doesn’t happen. It won’t happen. I barely managed to make it past the prologue while reading it in an attempt to help you figure out what went wrong. Why would anyone not already convinced want to read this? It goes so far beyond preaching to the choir that I can’t even think of an analogy. Baptizing a nunnery?

You cannot and will not convert people to your way of thinking until you present a reason for them to think like you. I hate to bring politics into this, but we’re talking about changing minds, so I’ll go with it. The alt-right are a bunch of vile motherfuckers; I think we can agree on that. But one thing they understood better than almost anyone is that you have to meet people where they are and bring them to your side. They didn’t try to sway card-carrying members of NOW, the NAACP, etc. They went after guys that were already on the fence, and then they treated them with empathy and understanding. Yeah, I know that sounds insane, given what they espouse, but it’s true.

If someone said to one of their recruiters on the various chan boards, “this doesn’t sound right” or “I don’t get it,” they didn’t browbeat the potential recruit. Instead, they gave them information in a drip feed, slowly working them around to the alt-right’s way of thinking. They didn’t overtly insult them. They actively worked with the recruit to draw them into the fold. And, sadly for all of us, this technique worked. Because of course it did: it’s the only way you can convince someone to renounce previously held views and embrace new ones, especially ones as vile as those.

Most importantly, the alt-right didn’t do the one thing I watched the left do over and over again, to my dismay: they didn’t present their worldview and go, “You figure it out. I did the research. Why can’t you? Be better!” And then make up a bunch of excuses why it wasn't their responsibility to educate the ignorant beyond merely stating, without much in the way of evidence, why their viewpoint was superior and how you must be a *insert word of disfavor here* if you didn't see it. That's a recipe for failure, and it's something the left STILL grapples with, mostly unsuccessfully.

You are presenting a veiwpoint that is never going to win over most of the crowd there; that's just a simple fact. But on top of that, you're presenting it in the most "I am right, and why can't you see it" tone you can, and you don't seem to understand that. You don't convert people by insulting them. You don't convert them by grossing them out and telling them they're awful people, that they deserve to be literally shit on for someone else's amusement.

Even going beyond that prologue, you immediately miss the mark. Like, in the first paragraph of the flashback.

A quick meander through the town's lonely streets beneath the light of the sun would be sure to set Landon's mind at ease. Another argument with the woman back home that sent him blazing back onto the street would presumably be the last to ever occur. Women; he found something about them so detestable, and so delectable at the same time.

Again, this is something no one ever would think about themselves. And, yeah, I get it, third person close, so you get to present them not just as they think of themselves but also as they actually are. But that's exactly the problem: you're presenting your view of what you think the typical reader of LW is, or at least this guy, who the largely male reader of LW is going to project themselves onto. You have made him not just a villain but a caricature, and you've done it in record time.

Yeah, it scored low. It deserved to. Not because of your technical skill, but because it was poorly written for what it was designed to do. Your assignment was "create a compelling reason a typical reader of LW might want to embrace a FLR lifestyle," and you literally shit the bed. Or the guy's face. Whichever. If I had to come up with a story to convincingly get someone to turn against femdom, FLR, cuckolding, etc. I don't think I could come up with a better one to do it.

If you want to tilt at this particular windmill, the first thing I'd do is make a new account. You aren't going to get any traction there on this one, especially after people look at your other stuff. Then, get a beta reader, someone whose skill you trust, but that is not already on board with your beliefs. Because what you're writing right now is the Chick tracts of cuckolding. They're only going to convince the converted, and even those are going to say, "Okay, chief, maybe take it down a few notches."

 

[lovecraft68]

More nuanced takes in LW are always welcome, at least by me. This isn’t nuanced. At all. On any level. If you want to convince, you have to convince, not just present a worldview—one antithetical to the vast majority of your audience, antithetical to the point of insult—and expect them to have a road to Damascus moment. It doesn’t happen. It won’t happen. I barely managed to make it past the prologue while reading it in an attempt to help you figure out what went wrong. Why would anyone not already convinced want to read this? It goes so far beyond preaching to the choir that I can’t even think of an analogy. Baptizing a nunnery?

You cannot and will not convert people to your way of thinking until you present a reason for them to think like you. I hate to bring politics into this, but we’re talking about changing minds, so I’ll go with it. The alt-right are a bunch of vile motherfuckers; I think we can agree on that. But one thing they understood better than almost anyone is that you have to meet people where they are and bring them to your side. They didn’t try to sway card-carrying members of NOW, the NAACP, etc. They went after guys that were already on the fence, and then they treated them with empathy and understanding. Yeah, I know that sounds insane, given what they espouse, but it’s true.

If someone said to one of their recruiters on the various chan boards, “this doesn’t sound right” or “I don’t get it,” they didn’t browbeat the potential recruit. Instead, they gave them information in a drip feed, slowly working them around to the alt-right’s way of thinking. They didn’t overtly insult them. They actively worked with the recruit to draw them into the fold. And, sadly for all of us, this technique worked. Because of course it did: it’s the only way you can convince someone to renounce previously held views and embrace new ones, especially ones as vile as those.

Most importantly, the alt-right didn’t do the one thing I watched the left do over and over again, to my dismay: they didn’t present their worldview and go, “You figure it out. I did the research. Why can’t you? Be better!” And then make up a bunch of excuses why it wasn't their responsibility to educate the ignorant beyond merely stating, without much in the way of evidence, why their viewpoint was superior and how you must be a *insert word of disfavor here* if you didn't see it. That's a recipe for failure, and it's something the left STILL grapples with, mostly unsuccessfully.

You are presenting a veiwpoint that is never going to win over most of the crowd there; that's just a simple fact. But on top of that, you're presenting it in the most "I am right, and why can't you see it" tone you can, and you don't seem to understand that. You don't convert people by insulting them. You don't convert them by grossing them out and telling them they're awful people, that they deserve to be literally shit on for someone else's amusement.

Even going beyond that prologue, you immediately miss the mark. Like, in the first paragraph of the flashback.


Again, this is something no one ever would think about themselves. And, yeah, I get it, third person close, so you get to present them not just as they think of themselves but also as they actually are. But that's exactly the problem: you're presenting your view of what you think the typical reader of LW is, or at least this guy, who the largely male reader of LW is going to project themselves onto. You have made him not just a villain but a caricature, and you've done it in record time.

Yeah, it scored low. It deserved to. Not because of your technical skill, but because it was poorly written for what it was designed to do. Your assignment was "create a compelling reason a typical reader of LW might want to embrace a FLR lifestyle," and you literally shit the bed. Or the guy's face. Whichever. If I had to come up with a story to convincingly get someone to turn against femdom, FLR, cuckolding, etc. I don't think I could come up with a better one to do it.

If you want to tilt at this particular windmill, the first thing I'd do is make a new account. You aren't going to get any traction there on this one, especially after people look at your other stuff. Then, get a beta reader, someone whose skill you trust, but that is not already on board with your beliefs. Because what you're writing right now is the Chick tracts of cuckolding. They're only going to convince the converted, and even those are going to say, "Okay, chief, maybe take it down a few notches."

Another one convinced the only shit stain men out there vote right. No man who votes left is ever an abuser, rapist, sexist, asshole to women...nope, please ladies base your choice of men on how they vote.....You want women on the same plantation black voters have been trapped in for decades. All hail the left, minorities and ladies, they are your friends...until you have the nerve to think for your self.

Sheer stupidity and a complete buy in to being brainwashed by the blue juice you've been injected with.

I've unfortunately come to terms with the fact that in this day and age very few minds and opinions can be changed. Reason being is if your original belief is one of one cult, then if you heard something that made you say "hey, wait a minute..." you are now going to be attacked by that cult and your choice is to either stand your ground and be bullied or just stay in line and sell out.

Few make the former choice.

The LW animals are not all right wing Christians, that's a convenient denial of the fact there are guys out there who vote and believe as you do can be the same type of raging prick. Sexism is the tie that binds men. Rich/poor left/right Christian/Muslim white/black etc...other than the majority of gay men women can and will be harmed or subjugated by men in all those groups.

If denying what I know from a lifetime of experience-which involves being raised with no religion or political preference to have locked me into one ideology-hels you sleep at night, good for you.

But for the benefit of others, stop pushing your misinformation based on who you want to like you and all the false generalizations you subject yourself to.

Any man or woman out there can be a nasty piece of work, and that is fact, all the rest is agenda and narrative.

 

[Wonderer67]

I've been working on a long LW piece. As I write, I cannot get the nagging thought out of my mind that "they will not understand this one, either." I know my storytelling style, I can read my own work and have it make sense in more ways than one, I can connect the threads and it's a coherent narrative to me... but when I publish here it feels like those same things I'm literally writing out are rendered invisible. Either no one cares to pay attention or they just can't fathom it. I have a problem.

Does anyone here experience anything similar? Does anyone have any relevant advice?

I have to agree with sentiment of other posters. I think you should post it.

I write a lot of poetry, a lot of it is very bad, but it’s just getting stuff out of my head. And that, in and of itself feels good.

It’s nice if people get it or react to it, but fuck em if they don’t. At the end of the day, my writing is for me.

 

[NoTalentHack]

Another one convinced the only shit stain men out there vote right. No man who votes left is ever an abuser, rapist, sexist, asshole to women...nope, please ladies base your choice of men on how they vote.....You want women on the same plantation black voters have been trapped in for decades. All hail the left, minorities and ladies, they are your friends...until you have the nerve to think for your self.

Sheer stupidity and a complete buy in to being brainwashed by the blue juice you've been injected with.

I've unfortunately come to terms with the fact that in this day and age very few minds and opinions can be changed. Reason being is if your original belief is one of one cult, then if you heard something that made you say "hey, wait a minute..." you are now going to be attacked by that cult and your choice is to either stand your ground and be bullied or just stay in line and sell out.

Few make the former choice.

The LW animals are not all right wing Christians, that's a convenient denial of the fact there are guys out there who vote and believe as you do can be the same type of raging prick. Sexism is the tie that binds men. Rich/poor left/right Christian/Muslim white/black etc...other than the majority of gay men women can and will be harmed or subjugated by men in all those groups.

If denying what I know from a lifetime of experience-which involves being raised with no religion or political preference to have locked me into one ideology-hels you sleep at night, good for you.

But for the benefit of others, stop pushing your misinformation based on who you want to like you and all the false generalizations you subject yourself to.

Any man or woman out there can be a nasty piece of work, and that is fact, all the rest is agenda and narrative.

I don't know how you manage to write so decently when your reading comprehension is so bad.

I never said... like, any of the words you put in my mouth. I was using the alt-right and the left as examples of persuasive and unpersuasive techniques when it came to convincing others of their beliefs. One managed to create an entirely new voter base that has just about completely eaten the original party that spawned it while still drawing in former moderates and even some former liberals; the other struggles to find a voice even within its own party, much less to make an impact outside of social media or (sometimes) corporate pandering.

Like, I don't know who the fuck you're arguing against, but it isn't me, man. At least not this time. Is this going to be the response you have every time I say the words "right" or "left," regardless of context? Is this like waving a red (or blue) flag at you? Maybe try to engage with what I said rather than with what you imagined I said, 'kay?

 

[lovecraft68]

[Politics and trolling prohibited per our AH Forum Rules]

 

[NoTalentHack]

I love how NTH tries to blame one type of person for being the reason his fav category has turned into a cesspool and bases it solely on politics.

But he's not wrong, he's in the right church, just the wrong pew and the need for a wider lense.

Because there is a certain type that has done this and it is a type of man

The whiny insecure, hateful, bitter, violent only behind a keyboard, Oh, I'm a victim man

That's the answer when you stop playing politics, and get to reality.

And in reality, millions of men have been divorced, for some of those infidelity was the reason. Yet most of us(as I'm one of them) have moved on, not lost their mind because of what happened, not screamed victim because the system feels young kids are better off with the mother, and managed to not hate an entire gender because of one shitty person. That's most of us...the rest are the ones you see in LW.

This is one of the few places that allows them free reign so its only going to get worse.

In the real world, six month ago the cops were at the house down the street from me where a family had just moved in not to long ago. Turns out the guy was not only hitting his wife, but had molested his 13 year old step daughter, his special needs step daughter. Can you get any lower? Well, FWIW his car is plastered with Biden/Harris and local dem politicians bumper stickers.

Should I now tell everyone that anyone who voted for Biden is an abuser cause of this guy? Now that I just spun that to throw shade at the popular political side in his forum, do you see how wrong and ludicrous that is? He has a Rolling stones bumper sticker too, should I say Mick Jagger supports abusing children?

That's how stupid this "only right wing" BS is.

Accusing one group while blindly defending another makes you part of the problem because you enable that side because they know that thanks to obliviots they'll never be blamed for anything.

Again, you numpty motherfucker, you are arguing a thing I'm not. I mean, I'm not arguing it at all, but I'm definitely not arguing it IN THIS THREAD.

To repeat, since you are apparently so fucking blind that things need to be said multiple times before they sink in: the only reference I made to politics here was about how one side did a better job with messaging than the other, and comparing that skill/lack of skill to the OP's take on convincing people.

FFS, dude. Learn how to take an L. Fuck, I'm not even asking you to learn how to say, "sorry, I was wrong," because, judging from your behavior on the forums, I think you're constitutionally incapable of it. Just like... don't keep on piling shit higher and deeper and hoping no one notices that you were being an ass. Stop trying to bluff your way through your own inability to comprehend anything outside of your own narrow focus. Stop doubling down when someone points out that you didn't understand a thing and went off half-cocked.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: You're the Joe Rogan of AH. That's not a good thing.

 

[alohadave]

Take the political crap to the correct forum. You guys can argue that shit there.

 

[NoTalentHack]

Take the political crap to the correct forum. You guys can argue that shit there.

I’m not arguing politics. That’s the whole problem: I’m not, and he is. I’m trying to talk about how to effectively argue, and he’s screaming about the librul media or some shit.

 

[madelinemasoch]

It goes on further to include the phrase that shows up in the comments of LW stories sometimes, "fag cuck shit," as a thing the man needs to be deprogrammed from as she literally shits on his face. This is on the first page. Hell, this is all in the prologue!

I know you don't like me, but you can't lie about what's in the text, especially after posting an excerpt.

This is what actually happens:

She finally clicked away to reveal a big and busty black queen squatting over the face of her own helpless white slave, letting the contents of her daily waste spill out into its mouth. "Shit!" the leather-clad mistress squealed with glee before turning the monitor off.

She shows him a scat scene on a TV screen. She does not "literally" shit on his face.

You know, when you lie about what's in my work, especially in the way your post is addressed, it's almost like you're trying to deter people from reading my work. At the very least that's just dishonest. And no, I'm not trolling, I'm not backpedaling: you just lied.

Give me time to read and respond to the rest of this thread. This thread isn't even about the piece you quoted. My mistake for bringing it up.

 

[nice90sguy]

Well, just don't put it in LW. Erotic Couplings is a good catch-all category. The feminized servant doesn't seem to be sufficient for Transgender and Crossdressers. It doesn't seem like Romance or Non-Erotic either.

Give yourself a break and avoid LW for this one. Of course they won't understand.

Most writers here have lots of stories tat don't fit Lits categories very well.

Agree with gunhilitrain the Erotic Couplings (I've actually urged Laurel to put one non-consent, and another lesbian story of mine into Romance categories, because I wanted to point readersthat way).

Listen to the advice here. And for goodness' sake stop pouting.

 

[TheRedChamber]

I know you don't like me, but you can't lie about what's in the text, especially after posting an excerpt.

This is what actually happens:

She shows him a scat scene on a TV screen. She does not "literally" shit on his face.

You know, when you lie about what's in my work, especially in the way your post is addressed, it's almost like you're trying to deter people from reading my work. At the very least that's just dishonest. And no, I'm not trolling, I'm not backpedaling: you just lied.

Give me time to read and respond to the rest of this thread. This thread isn't even about the piece you quoted. My mistake for bringing it up.

Okay, I'm confused now. Are we discussing a story that's actually been published and is available?

 

[madelinemasoch]

Your assignment was "create a compelling reason a typical reader of LW might want to embrace a FLR lifestyle," and you literally shit the bed. Or the guy's face. Whichever.

This seems to be the core of this post, so I'll address this and I'll be 100% honest. In this story in question, I was not trying to do this. I was not trying to change their minds, I was not trying to make converts to my worldview or even to my lifestyle. In the case of that prologue especially, I was just trying to piss them off.

No sweat on all the hatred for that one, man. You can say I failed on the score of conversion, but conversion was never the goal in DL. I think even the fact that you see the germ of an attempt at a convincing piece shows that I have abilities, actually, because at no point in writing that story did I think that it was going to change anybody's mind.

Again, this is something no one ever would think about themselves. And, yeah, I get it, third person close, so you get to present them not just as they think of themselves but also as they actually are. But that's exactly the problem: you're presenting your view of what you think the typical reader of LW is, or at least this guy, who the largely male reader of LW is going to project themselves onto. You have made him not just a villain but a caricature, and you've done it in record time.

I don't see how that's unrealistic... He's arguing with his wife and he's taking a walk. I've heard men say things like that before. If you wanted to pick out something incredulous with the character of Landon, you could have picked the cemetery sex. A lot of men would never accept an offer that creepy.

Landon is not my idea of the LW reader. It's cool if they identify with him. He's not even really a villain, though, he's just a cheater. I don't think DL has a villain, they're just people. I'm surprised they wouldn't see Mary Sweetworth as the villain, as she's the cheating wife.

He's not an amazingly constructed character. He's just something I wanted to try.

 

[madelinemasoch]

Okay, I'm confused now. Are we discussing a story that's actually been published and is available?

The thread isn't about Dark Love, but that's what NTH was addressing, yes. Only because I brought it up first. It's an LW story, my only one so far, and I wrote that intro NTH quoted for all the wrong reasons: not trying to be convincing, just seeing how far I could push into portraying what the no cuck brigade doesn't want to see in the category. The entire story wasn't written for either of those reasons, though.

 

[NoTalentHack]

This seems to be the core of this post, so I'll address this and I'll be 100% honest. In this story in question, I was not trying to do this. I was not trying to change their minds, I was not trying to make converts to my worldview or even to my lifestyle. In the case of that prologue especially, I was just trying to piss them off.

But... you were? Maybe not to full on FLR converts, but at least enough to say "this is a thing I want to show you, please don't throw rotten fruit at me." Or else you were trying to actively piss them off, which... I guess you managed it?

I mean, in your first post, you said:

As I write, I cannot get the nagging thought out of my mind that "they will not understand this one, either."

And you're right. They won't, for all the reasons I gave in my previous posts. You didn't try to get them to understand. You made it very clear that you don't actually care if they understand; that's the problem. You can't have it both ways. You can't both make something that will be in-your-face offensive to a readership, then bemoan them not "getting you." You didn't even give them a chance to get you; instead you said, "fuck you if you don't get me, I'm going to write this anyways." And if that's your goal? All good. If it's not? Well... see above. Just change "converts" to "opening their minds" or whatever phrasing you want to use.

 

[NoTalentHack]

I know you don't like me, but you can't lie about what's in the text, especially after posting an excerpt.

This is what actually happens:

She shows him a scat scene on a TV screen. She does not "literally" shit on his face.

You know, when you lie about what's in my work, especially in the way your post is addressed, it's almost like you're trying to deter people from reading my work. At the very least that's just dishonest. And no, I'm not trolling, I'm not backpedaling: you just lied.

Give me time to read and respond to the rest of this thread. This thread isn't even about the piece you quoted. My mistake for bringing it up.

Then I misread it. My apologies. I'll be honest: by that time, I was already kind of grossed out.

Still, you dropped scat (metaphorically) on both the dude and readers in the couple thousand words. And, for the record, I don't dislike you. I dislike very few people on this forum. I'm actually kind of fond of you and of your devotion to your voice, even if I don't like your output much. But that's not the same thing as disliking you. I wouldn't write something that long for someone I didn't like, unless I was calling them out for being an absolute shithead, which I was not.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

I was just trying to piss them off.

Okay, I'm... confused, to be honest.

You've been making quite a few posts in the forums by now, and, as far as I can see, they all seem to fall into one of two categories:

Either you declare that you're trying to create something great that is meant to hold up a mirror to all your haters while trying to piss them off, or you're complaining about how people "can't fathom" your deep thoughts and get pissed off.

So, just for clarity's sake... what IS it you're trying to do, and that "they will not understand"? Call me stupid and ignorant, but I seriously don't have a clue.

 

[madelinemasoch]

But... you were? Maybe not to full on FLR converts, but at least enought o say "this is a thing I want to show you, please don't throw rotten fruit at me."

I mean, in your first post, you said:



And you're right. They won't, for all the reasons I gave in my previous posts. You didn't try to get them to understand. You made it very clear that you don't actually care if they understand; that's the problem. You can't have it both ways. You can't both make something that will be in-your-face offensive to a readership, then bemoan them not "getting you." You didn't even give them a chance to get you; instead you said, "fuck you if you don't get me, I'm going to write this anyways." And if that's your goal? All good. If it's not? Well... see above. Just change "converts" to "opening their minds" or whatever phrasing you want to use.

I understand your point. I'm just letting you know that I wasn't trying to write a convincing piece in the way you describe when I wrote Dark Love. The fuck you attitude was the goal there. I can write something else for a different reason.

My approach on what I'm working on now, the original subject of this thread, is very different. There aren't any gross-out scenes, for example. There isn't even going to be anything particularly brutal or outlandishly embarrassing. I'm turning the obscenity dial down, and I'm turning the vibes dial up to 12 out of 10.

I think this will already help people to understand what I'm doing with it because people get distracted by scat scenes and so on to such an extent that it even makes them stop reading, as it did with you.

 

[TheRedChamber]

The thread isn't about Dark Love, but that's what NTH was addressing, yes. Only because I brought it up first. It's an LW story, my only one so far, and I wrote that intro NTH quoted for all the wrong reasons: not trying to be convincing, just seeing how far I could push into portraying what the no cuck brigade doesn't want to see in the category. The entire story wasn't written for either of those reasons, though.

Okay, I've quickly skimmed Dark Love.

First of all, I've to ask, why don't you just camp out at Interracial? There seems to be a strong White Woman - Black Man theme running through practically everything you write and, while scores aren't necessarily sky high in IR, you don't attract the same levels of vitriol and may have people reading who are in on your basic starting premise.

I understand your point. I'm just letting you know that I wasn't trying to write a convincing piece in the way you describe when I wrote Dark Love. The fuck you attitude was the goal there. I can write something else for a different reason.

My approach on what I'm working on now, the original subject of this thread, is very different. There aren't any gross-out scenes, for example. There isn't even going to be anything particularly brutal or outlandishly embarrassing. I'm turning the obscenity dial down, and I'm turning the vibes dial up to 12 out of 10.

I know you don't want to spoil the story, but, just for the purposes of discussion, what are the major themes and plot outline of your story. If I had to get the crib notes version for my Literotica exams, what would it say?

I think this will already help people to understand what I'm doing with it because people get distracted by scat scenes and so on to such an extent that it even makes them stop reading, as it did with you.

Yes, yes, they do.

In all seriousness, people talk about trump categories - in the same way you can't just put a little bit of mother-fucking in your Erotic Coupling story without it getting moved to Incest - to most people, a story with a even a little bit of scat in it is a scat story (though perhaps alas and perhaps not we don't have a scat category)

 

[madelinemasoch]

Okay, I'm... confused, to be honest.

You've been making quite a few posts in the forums by now, and, as far as I can see, they all seem to fall into one of two categories:

Either you declare that you're trying to create something great that is meant to hold up a mirror to all your haters while trying to piss them off, or you're complaining about how people "can't fathom" your deep thoughts and get pissed off.

So, just for clarity's sake... what IS it you're trying to do, and that "they will not understand"? Call me stupid and ignorant, but I seriously don't have a clue.

The problem in answering this is I don't want to spoil it. It's just that the relationship the central character is in probably won't add up for a lot of people, for a myriad of reasons. Maybe they aren't taking time to understand someone who isn't like themselves. Maybe my writing style is confusing when you don't pay attention. It's concerning when you're working on something directly from your heart instead of your ego, as someone on this forum once told me to do... but that's what I'm trying.