Help please - wife not interested(?)

[exiled_oblivion]

OK, so there is a lot of backstory to this; please bear with me:

My wife and I met 7 years ago, and initially things were great; things seemed normal.

She confessed fairly early on that she had depression, to which I thought "fine, I can deal with that". It was a result of a fairly horrific childhood, and also abuse that occurred later in her life.

She was a virgin at the time - and still is if you have a traditionally narrow definition of the word - and again, told me that fairly early on. It had no effect on what I thought of her, although it obviously changed how I approached the topic of sex.

She was affectionate and loving, and so was I...everything seemed to be going fine despite the depression.

The depression gradually worsened; I did as much as I could to help the situation (although sometimes due to my ignorance of what that illness entails I probably made things worse - thankfully I think I'm now a little older and a little wiser), and the affection gradually dropped off.

Now we're in a state where all the affection seems to be coming from me, and I get little in return. She does occasionally give me a hug or a kiss (without me asking for one), but usually I have to push for it, and I almost get the feeling that she's doing it just to appease me, or because she feels like she has to do it for some other reason.

Any time we do have any physical affection, it's brief - as in, she won't let me give her a long (i.e. longer than 5-10 seconds) cuddle unless we're in bed and she's trying to get to sleep.

We still haven't had penetrative sex, but there are reasons for that that mean that I wouldn't feel comfortable pushing her for that. Frankly, I can wait for her.

What DOES concern me though is that all the stuff we used to do (oral sex, handjobs/finggering etc) has also died off.

It happens once a year if I'm lucky, and usually it's her giving me a handjob and looking fairly disinterested during it. And again, it feels like she's doing it because she feels that she has to.

There was some brief hope when she decided to take up pole fitness classes, but it doesn't seem to have made much difference.

The excuses come thick and fast: can't possibly do it on a weeknight, too tired, not in the mood, too ill (yet not too ill to go to pole classes or go out with friends), and so on.

We've tried to talk about it and resolve it a few times - and each time she gives me contradictory information: she wants me to take control of the situation, but feels pressured if I suggest that we do anything sexual.

I should point out at this point that I have been as careful and understanding and gentle about approaching the subject as I feel it's possible to be. At no point do I feel like I've pushed her into anything - frankly I would feel like a complete douchebag if I had. That's not what I want from her; forced sex is not something on my list of things that I like. Quite the opposite.

She once admitted that she is scared of anything sexual - what I can't understand is why the things that we previously used to do are now scary to her. She doesn't seem to be able to (or is unwilling to) answer that herself. "I don't know" is the response I get when I approach that question.

At first I thought "maybe I'm just not good at it", but after some research, and judging from her bodily reactions and the things she said in the heat of the moment, I'm struggling to believe that it's technique that's at fault.

I did some internet research to see if I was misunderstanding something, or to see if anyone else was in the same boat, and I started to wonder if maybe she just needed a bit more romanticism.

So I put as much of my life on hold as I could to pay as much attention to her as possible - I don't game any more, and if we're together I try to be as attentive as possible to her without crowding her.

I went down the route of trying to do romantic things - e.g. I've drawn her a candlelit bath with rose petals and aromatherapy oils and stuff for when she gets home from work and so on, I've bought her gifts (and explained that I'm not trying to buy her love)...she thanks me verbally, but nothing changes.

What gets to me most is that she seems to be unwilling to help the situation; she seems to want me to do the work on fixing it...but I feel like I've done the work and nothing has changed.

I'm regularly accused of not loving her (which I do), but I chalk that one down to the depression speaking, rather than what her non-depressed self actually thinks - she was diagnosed as being bipolar years ago, and while I think that side of things has improved somewhat, it is still there when the usual Sunday 3pm depression spiral hits.

She refuses to go back on her depression meds (she hates being dependent on them), refuses to see a therapist of any kind, and refuses to be brave enough to actually do anything sexually.

At this point, it's been so long now and there are so many things that aren't making sense that I'm starting to consider possibilities other than depression as a source of all this:
- Has she just lost all sexual interest in me? She claims otherwise, but I don't know whether to believe that or not.
- Has she lost all sexual interest in men entirely? She was quietly bi when I met her, and there are certain things that led me to believe that she leans closer to the gay than straight side these days, but is too scared to come out. This would explain a lot, but somehow it just doesn't quite fit 100%...
- Does she just THINK that she loves me/finds me attractive, and is she kidding herself?


A few things about myself that I should make clear: I do not EXPECT sex. Knowing her past and how she feels (or at least claims to feel) about it, I long ago shook off the notion that sex is something that a man is entitled to. That said, I DO very much miss having a face full of her.

At this point, I am more interested in rekindling our sexual relationship because she appears to now be worrying that she is incapable of it, or that someone will find out that she is a virgin (this post is the first time I have ever discussed our sexual relationship with anyone, and it's anonymous, so that fear is unfounded, but persists), and that she will forever be 'frigid' (her own words, not mine). I want to rekindle things because I think she NEEDS to re-find her sexual self in order to get rid of at least this one fuel for her depression. Not to mention that sex is allegedly good for alleviating depression.

So my question is: what the fuck do I do? I've run out of ideas. She's a great girl and I love her dearly, even when I'm being shouted and screamed at by the 'other' wife that rears it's head on a Sunday afternoon. So I can't leave her. Not to mention that I'm not sure she'd survive it even if I DID want to leave.

Random extra info: we don't have kids, and she has told me that she isn't interested in having kids, although she suspects that she isn't capable of having them anyway; the latter fact also contributes to the depression because she feels like the choice was taken from her. We have two cats that she loves like children instead.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Sammael Bard]

This is some Dr. Phil shit.

Your wife's problem is much more than loss of sexual interest. Go see a professional. For your sake and your wife's. This isn't WebMD.

 

[jayceedeekay]

To be clear on the comment above, YOU need professional advice on how to deal with your wife. I just wonder if your behaviour is somehow satisfying some deep seated need for affirmation and control that she carries embedded in her psyche...
Or I could be talking bullshit.

 

[dSpiral]

I totally agree you need professional advice.

But in my opinion (based on professional advice I have received over the years):

Sadly you are screwed (and not in the sex way).

If she wont get help, things will never get better and most likely will get progressively worse. Unfortunately some people are broken and if you stay with them, eventually you will break too.

Knowing that she has issues you will bend over backwards trying make her happy (which she never will be). You will run around all day attending to her needs, knowing deep down it wont make any difference.

Any bad things she does, you will excuse, blaming it on her issues. Over time more and more bad behaviour will just become part of her personality.


I believe you when you say you love her. You may also believe that deep down she loves you in her own broken way, and you may be correct. But sometimes that is not enough.


Just because she isn't giving you physical scars, doesn't mean you aren't suffering abuse. If you aren't there already, your relationship is likely heading into a downward spiral of emotional abuse.

Trust me, that can lead to some really bad places.

At least you don't have kids. Have a really good think and decide what you want, and what you need and whether your current situation can ever deliver those things.

It really is a hard decision to make.

I know you should leave her. Deep down you know the same.

The easiest thing to do is to just keep putting the decision off, but that just does more damage to you and really doesn't help her.

I know how hard the decision is to make and wish you all the best. I hope you are stronger than I am.

 

[catimann]

Perhaps you can not afford the time that is needed from a professional. As this forum probably covers North American (in this case and most likely the US in your case) I don't know what could be available in the way of funded help.

But truly you and your wife need professional help.

That said the post above is also good advice in my opinion.

 

[Iceprincess12]

It's really great that everything you have attempted has been for the end goal of getting you sex. Obviously women just need a bit of romancing, via the textbook rose petal and bath, to find their inner sexual desire.

Internet research is helpful too. Commendable that you found research to support 'sex helps depression'. If you were allowed to wave your magic wand, sounds like she would be right as rain. You should take a poll and find out how many men with wives disinterested in sex, found their magic answers here. Then do a follow up poll to find out how many found enough sexual satisfaction here to not have solved her problem, but are still searching...the answers might surprise you.

From the way you describe the situation, you have done everything possible and your wife has unsolvable issues. There are two sides to every story and since it's doubtful we will hear from your wife, I will highlight the one answer and your response that tells me more than anything else you have written.

She once admitted that she is scared of anything sexual - what I can't understand is why the things that we previously used to do are now scary to her.

When women give you the answer and you decide there must be more to it, or you don't accept her answer, she usually doesn't give it again. Especially if she feels you haven't really heard her.

Hopefully you will keep us informed of her progress and your findings from scouring the threads maintained by the resident psychiatrists here.

 

[Sheana_V]

...
You aren't going to get any sex from this person until she starts dealing with her shit.
There are non-drug alternatives she can consider if she doesn't want to be on meds and I can point you in that direction if she wants. She also needs to be talking to someone about her problems that is neutral about them.

The point here is that your question seems to primarily be about your dick, and the problem is in her brain. You can't do anything about the former without addressing the latter. Unfortunately depression doesn't tend to lend itself to active change.

 

[xhxhxh]

I say this without trying to be cold or heartless, but from the side of a lil experience: you need to move on if you want to live your life as you described because you'll never get what you're after. Its not a sex thing. Its a quality of life thing. Just my two cents.......

 

[exiled_oblivion]

OK so it appears that I gave the wrong impression, or maybe people didn't get what I meant...

This is not about my sexual gratification. I mentioned the sexual side of things because a) it is becoming an issue to her, and b) I see it as evidence that her romantic interest in me has died. Maybe that's just a specifically male thought process, I dunno. And although I DO miss it (like anyone would), I wrote this post mainly due to the broader issue of lack of affection in general.

IcePrincess: Not sure I like the sarcastic tone of that post. You've obviously misunderstood my intentions and the efforts I have been to. And with regard to the 'scared' bit - is it such a bad thing to ask for clarification on something that doesn't make sense?

Sheana: If you could give me some pointers on alternatives, that would be greatly appreciated. Whether she will be interested in them is another matter, but at least it's another option to try. Rest assured that my problem is not about my dick, but is more about my heart and her feelings for me, and possible ways of helping her. My dick is the very last thing on the list of things that need attention right now. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the sexual side of things at all - people seem to have jumped on that as the primary motivation for my post. Frankly I am much more of a giver than a receiver in that regard.

It's our wedding anniversary next week, and we are going away for a couple of days together...we'll see if that helps anything. If not then I guess we're going to have to have a lengthy talk afterwards. Hoping I can persuade her to see a therapist...but I suspect I'll get the 'you can't force me!' line thrown in my face no matter how gently I suggest it. Pretty sure that any mention of drugs will result in a bad response...we'll see.

 

[Sheana_V]

Sheana: If you could give me some pointers on alternatives, that would be greatly appreciated. Whether she will be interested in them is another matter, but at least it's another option to try. Rest assured that my problem is not about my dick, but is more about my heart and her feelings for me, and possible ways of helping her. My dick is the very last thing on the list of things that need attention right now. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the sexual side of things at all - people seem to have jumped on that as the primary motivation for my post. Frankly I am much more of a giver than a receiver in that regard.

It's our wedding anniversary next week, and we are going away for a couple of days together...we'll see if that helps anything. If not then I guess we're going to have to have a lengthy talk afterwards. Hoping I can persuade her to see a therapist...but I suspect I'll get the 'you can't force me!' line thrown in my face no matter how gently I suggest it. Pretty sure that any mention of drugs will result in a bad response...we'll see.

Okay, so there are three immediate possibilities that might help. Both of them could be thought of as supplements, not drugs. The first is DHEA, and the second is Tryptophan, and the third is Tyrosine. The first two are more likely to help if the depression has an anxiety related element. Find the lowest dose available at the drug store, and see if it helps at all. I recommend DHEA only if Tryptophan isn't working because it has more side effects, but it's also more powerful.

Also is she having trouble sleeping? If so, she should try taking Melatonin, again at the lowest available dosage.

I must point out I'm not a medical doctor, but I have managed my own depression this way in the past. I would recommend talking to a doctor about this even though I didn't. If she's in the throws of depression getting some light shining into her world may need to happen before she's willing to talk to a therapist.

One of the things that comes with depression is a feeling of powerlessness, so pressure is probably not going to be helpful. If she has the energy for it I'd recommend she do her own research on the supplements I mentioned above.

 

[Heavenlybodiesa]

Okay, so there are three immediate possibilities that might help. Both of them could be thought of as supplements, not drugs. The first is DHEA, and the second is Tryptophan, and the third is Tyrosine. The first two are more likely to help if the depression has an anxiety related element. Find the lowest dose available at the drug store, and see if it helps at all. I recommend DHEA only if Tryptophan isn't working because it has more side effects, but it's also more powerful.

Also is she having trouble sleeping? If so, she should try taking Melatonin, again at the lowest available dosage.

I must point out I'm not a medical doctor, but I have managed my own depression this way in the past. I would recommend talking to a doctor about this even though I didn't. If she's in the throws of depression getting some light shining into her world may need to happen before she's willing to talk to a therapist.

One of the things that comes with depression is a feeling of powerlessness, so pressure is probably not going to be helpful. If she has the energy for it I'd recommend she do her own research on the supplements I mentioned above.

Maybe she is tired of the marriage or you.

 

[Sugarfoot10]

Time to move on.......for both of you.

 

[CutieMouse]

Your wife has been diagnosed with bi-polar depression. It doesn't matter if she wants to do therapy or take meds or not.

SHE HAS TO DO THERAPY AND BE MEDICATED TO FUNCTION.

Period.
Full stop.

She doesn't want to because it's uncomfortable. She doesn't want to because the roller coaster that bi-polars are used to make a medicated life feel "flat".

Tough.Shit.

Her refusal to manage a medical issue has contributed to an abusive situation. Your willingness to enable her behavior has contributed to an abusive situation. Thank god there aren't any children involved.

(BTW - she can't have her cake and eat it too... "I don't want kids!", "I don't think I can even get pregnant" and "ZOMG I was robbed! Motherhood was stolen from me by my [assumed?] fucked up body!!!"... yeah, no.)

You briefly mentioned that she refuses therapy and meds. She has a diagnosed history of depression, and a diagnosis of bi-polar depression. Refusing therapy and meds makes about as much sense as a diabetic refusing insulin. Fuck that shit.*

You're worth a functional marriage. If she won't go into therapy, you should [alone].




* Brought to you by a woman who was raised by an un-medicated, therapy-refusing, diagnosed bi-polar I, BPD, NPD parent that I (thankfully) kicked out of my life 18 years ago.

 

[Tigersman]

According to an article I read, the answer could be in the form of birth control she is using.

 

[hashtag45]

I don't know much about your situation to know what's really going on (although to me 'she's not into men' immediately came to my mind, despite her extensive trauma history)

but why don't you confront her? (in a gentle non-judgmental non-accusatory manner, of course. Like bringing her flowers and asking her to set a date for the discussion, in order to give her enough notice.)

 

[CutieMouse]

I'm regularly accused of not loving her (which I do), but I chalk that one down to the depression speaking, rather than what her non-depressed self actually thinks - she was diagnosed as being bipolar years ago, and while I think that side of things has improved somewhat, it is still there when the usual Sunday 3pm depression spiral hits.

She refuses to go back on her depression meds (she hates being dependent on them), refuses to see a therapist of any kind, and refuses to be brave enough to actually do anything sexually.

Okay, so there are three immediate possibilities that might help. Both of them could be thought of as supplements, not drugs. The first is DHEA, and the second is Tryptophan, and the third is Tyrosine. The first two are more likely to help if the depression has an anxiety related element. Find the lowest dose available at the drug store, and see if it helps at all. I recommend DHEA only if Tryptophan isn't working because it has more side effects, but it's also more powerful.

Also is she having trouble sleeping? If so, she should try taking Melatonin, again at the lowest available dosage.

I must point out I'm not a medical doctor, but I have managed my own depression this way in the past. I would recommend talking to a doctor about this even though I didn't. If she's in the throws of depression getting some light shining into her world may need to happen before she's willing to talk to a therapist.

One of the things that comes with depression is a feeling of powerlessness, so pressure is probably not going to be helpful. If she has the energy for it I'd recommend she do her own research on the supplements I mentioned above.

I am all about the supplements & alternative therapies, but bi-polar depression is not something that is managed with DHEA, Tryptophan, Tyrosine, etc. Those supplements can be helpful when one is dealing with mild to moderate depression, or has issues with adrenal fatigue, but bi-polar is a whole different level of mental chaos.

According to an article I read, the answer could be in the form of birth control she is using.

Birth control pills do not cause bi-polar depression. Birth control pills do not cure bi-polar depression. Birth control pills do not make things better when one is dealing with a significant history of abuse [which may have permanently altered one's brain chemistry, and created a box 'o wet cats approach to dealing with the stress of life].

 

[KimGordon67]

I've got a fair few friends/family with depression, bi-polar, anxiety disorders, etc, and every one of them says 'medication literally saved my life' ... except my brother, who won't take the meds. At the moment, I'm just trying keep him in a 'not killing himself' pattern until he can get his around getting better.
You can (and should) love the people you're close to who have psychological issues, but you cannot fix them, and you'll just break yourself trying. If the meds she was taking previously didn't work for her, she should try something else - there's more than one option for most things. (My bi-polar friend got a lot of help with meditation, but she's amazingly driven and committed when she takes on anything like that - and she's also on meds.) It's such a pity that people see treatment for mental illness as some kind of 'dependency' - my cripple friend is pretty 'dependent' on his wheelchair; my dad was 'dependent' on his heart medication. It's an illness, and it's treatable, not a 'weakness' that you just have to overcome.
If she's feeling badly about her lack of physical affection (and I've been there myself, so I can imagine how she feels), maybe use that as a tack for getting her to see a doctor, as in she's doing it for you, rather than her - it's a bit sneaky, but depressed people tend to be pretty terrible at doing things for their own wellbeing, yet can still care for others.

 

[MissSweetTemptations]

I dont think I'm qualified to give advice in this situation but just wanted to say you put All this time you put into the post and not to mention the years of trying to help..have to say you give me some hope there are good guys left.

 

[RacyWilde]

Change comes from within, not by those around us.

To exiled_oblivion

Firstly, you sound like a great guy . I’m sorry that things have been hard for you.

There is a lot going on in your marriage and yeah, you personally might need professional advice. You need to keep and work on your own health (physical, mental and emotional) to be better prepared to face/work with your situation and to make appropriate decisions.

I understand that it’s not about the sex, that it is about the intimacy you have lost, and that doesn’t include just physical intimacy but emotional and intellectual. It’s very hard when you have committed yourself to a person and then they change. That is the risk we all take when we commit. People don’t stay the same, they are always moving forwards or backwards. And, when you take on a commitment such as marriage where it is typically understood to love each other through the good and bad times, we only tend to make that commitment when it is a good time, not realising how far or how deep the bad times may be. For your situation, when one of the partners dramatically changes: Sometimes partners feel cheated as if they married one person and all of a sudden are left to live their life with another. It is usually their initial commitment and the hope of change that keeps them locked into the situation.

It is your decision alone whether to trust your wife that she will re-become the loving, affectionate and caring person you once married. No matter how much you love someone, how much love you give, you can’t change them. It is up to them to change–and her condition will affect this. Your wife has the freedom, and the right, to be who she is. Yes, you should live up to your commitment to her, but, you have also a commitment/duty to yourself. In this world, the first person that you are responsible for is yourself. If you are not looking after yourself, then you can’t be the best you can be for the ones you love.

You have some hard decisions to make that will be far reaching. I know you have sourced out information and learnt all you can so far, which is really good. Perhaps you can come up with a time-frame action plan––what you will do if things get worse/better––so at least you have a direction, something tangible that you can work towards. That way you won’t feel so stuck in your situation.

All the best.

 

[Sheana_V]

I am all about the supplements & alternative therapies, but bi-polar depression is not something that is managed with DHEA, Tryptophan, Tyrosine, etc. Those supplements can be helpful when one is dealing with mild to moderate depression, or has issues with adrenal fatigue, but bi-polar is a whole different level of mental chaos.



Birth control pills do not cause bi-polar depression. Birth control pills do not cure bi-polar depression. Birth control pills do not make things better when one is dealing with a significant history of abuse [which may have permanently altered one's brain chemistry, and created a box 'o wet cats approach to dealing with the stress of life].

Maybe I missed the bipolar diagnosis, I thought it was depression.

I manage my own bipolar diagnosis with nutritional lithium, and it took me a while to manage it as well as I do now which is not perfect. On the other hand there is no way I'd go back to taking Lithium as medication, and SSRI's do not work for bipolar in spite of their continued use for it.

 

[Sheana_V]

Also, I'm trying to help for people that do not want to take medication.

 

[policywank]

Sexual intimacy is part of marriage. Nobody should be vilified for wanting that connection. What I read is that the OPs wife is technically a virgin.....does that mean they have never fucked? If so let's park the whole "he only cares about sex bullshit".

If they have been together 7 years and more than a day of that has been married he should be getting fucked. And if not, she should have a spectacularly good reason and be doing everything in her power to rectify the situation. Otherwise there is something much more serious going on and the answer isn't rose petals and patience.

For fuck sales, even June Cleaver and Nancy Reagan gave it up on their wedding night. Something else is going on here.

 

[MaybeTwins]

I don't know you or your wife from Adam, but it sounds to me as though you are putting her on a pedestal and basically acting as her flunky and she has no respect for you as a result. When women don't respect their partners they tend not to want sex with them.

I'm not talking about any alpha male nonsense, putting your foot down, etc. etc. But you are her husband and partner, not her servant. Have a serious and mature conversation with her in which you explain that you are not happy and that she needs to make some changes. That should first and foremost include marriage counselling and individual counselling for her.

This line in particular really concerns me: "She's a great girl and I love her dearly, even when I'm being shouted and screamed at by the 'other' wife that rears its head on a Sunday afternoon. So I can't leave her. Not to mention that I'm not sure she'd survive it even if I DID want to leave."

That screams to me that you have a bad case of white knight syndrome. You are a caring guy and those instincts are blinding you to the fact that you are being badly treated.

 

[hadruprider]

Oh dear. Where to start? At the beginning I suppose.
She said she had depression and you thought you could deal with that???????
No no no no no.
If someone has serious medical depression it is not something anyone can 'deal with'.
It is a very serious illness.
She gives contradictory answers? Yes, people with depression do.
If she makes bizarre angry accusations, well yes, people with depression do.
No amount of being caring and understanding or romantic gestures from you are going to cure her depression.
The first thing you need to do is to try to learn more about clinical depression.
Clearly you understand it more than you did at first but it seems to me that you have a long way to go.