Confusing Readers with Multiple POV Changes

[dmallord]

I received this message regarding my story, "I had to stop the story at the middle, sry mate, i don't want to disencourage you, but i found it hard to read. Way to many Character jumps. I got sometimes confused who was in the Personal View right now, maybe it gets better if you transform the text and make each character jump its own passage like you did now, but with a symbol like lines when you switch charcaters, cause in some paragraphs you switch and in others you don't but that is ofc only my personal opinion"

I failed my reader! I looked back at the story and do not see his/her point. I am just too close to the story to be able to see what I should have done. If anyone has a few moments of time, I'd appreciate a review of the story to point me in a better direction on how to make it clearer regarding changes in POV.

The story is at https://literotica.com/s/tattooed-and-screwed It involves a young daughter and father incest relationship. This particular phase of the situation involves her getting several tattoos and becoming involved with a doctor who is also the daughter of the tattoo artist in this episode. There is much more to the story as it progresses. It is approximately 8,000 words.

 

[AlinaX]

Swapping between different first-person POVs is always tricky. Worth stating the narrator at the start of each section.

Also, entertaining over-use of semicolons, and slightly awkward dialogue tagging.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I didn't read very far, but even the opening few paragraphs are confusing. You quickly introduce several characters but it's not clear who is who, and who is the narrator.

My suggestion would be to stay with one character for a long stretch; then, when you change pov, very clearly announce whose head you are now in.

I personally think a header saying Name X is clunky as - it's easy to establish who and where within the first paragraph of each change of view.

Check out my Floating World Part One as an example - it's written in third person, but alternates between the two protagonists.

 

[AlinaX]

I have a series with two first-person narrators (and also various third-person), but one is present tense and one is past perfect.

I've read at least one novel that alternate chapters between first-person narrators.

Since there are headers here anyway, it's not clunky to add the narrator, e.g.

Arriving Home -- After the Drop Off
(Ray)​

 

[TheRedChamber]

I'm sorry, I agree with your commenter. I'm confused by this story. Even the first section just makes my head ache a little bit. I've looked over this paragraph several times trying to piece things together.

I felt guilty about adding a half-lie to what I told Marie. I got carried away. I should have told her the truth. That I'd slept with another eighteen-year-old virgin last night. Marie would have understood--she and I had practically lived that experience when we were that age. Except I had sex with her best friend, her lover. Marie gave her permission--losing my virginity that way felt pretty special. And four years later, I married her lover. It effectively dissolved our throuple relationship; when Katrina was born.

I think Ray is married to Marie, but it might be Marie's lover that Ray is married to. They have a daughter called Katrina. Roy slept with a eighteen-year-old virgin last night and is lying about it even though Marie wouldn't mind. He had sex with her best-friend who was also her lover. The eighteen-year-old virgin is not Marie's best friend. She gave permission to sleep with her lover years ago. She did not give permission to sleep with the eighteen-year-old virgin even though she'd have understood him doing so....arrghh. Then there's a page break which suggests time might have passed, but it doesn't seem to have.

Then there's some stuff about having to go on a riding trip or maybe it's a shopping trip, but she's taking off in two hour...and then suddenly Roy's the one flying the plane.

Halfway down page one and I'm really struggling to know what is going on.

 

[dmallord]

YIKES! or OMG! I need to go back and fix this right away! My thoughts easily carried the connections to previous stories. I didn't even realize the reader may not have had those connections to the other stories, e.g., the fly out to the hospital was set up in another story - for me I had the connection and didn't explain that in this portion of the on-going plot.

Thanks to each of you for your insightful assistance. I'll jump back into this, and re-work the story, to straighten it out. [And if Ray's flying the plane - I'm really in trouble. I left him driving home, northbound, in a car; while the plane should have been southbound, in the air!]

Perhaps as an aside, to clear some air: Marie and Katelyn were lovers. Ray became the third-leg in their love affair, forming a new love triangle. Eventually, Ray married Katelyn. The daughter, from their marriage, is Katrina. Katrina is the primary focus in this incest story. Separate and apart is the father's sexual encounter with Jackie, a neighbor's daughter. The latter scenario was written to help build the sexual disorder issues diagnosed by Dr. Marie in another part of this on-going sequence of stories.

First, before I rip into the storyline, I will begin with a reading of the two references given as models for changes in POV. Now, that I have an idea of what to look for as a guide.

Thanks for your generous time, today. Oh! And for what it is worth, one should not, in my opinion, need to say 'sorry' when offering a very valid and considerate critique of another's work. Sorry should be reserved for realizing you have wrongly or vindictively mauled another's work!

 

[dmallord]

Swapping between different first-person POVs is always tricky. Worth stating the narrator at the start of each section.

Also, entertaining over-use of semicolons, and slightly awkward dialogue tagging.

'Entertaining over-use of semicolons' - thanks for being so politely spoken. I'm recently started writing. No formal wordsmithing in my background. Just at the 80 mark in life now. I'm reading high school grammar books to catch up on structural and other grammar points. Those finer points have long been forgotten. I find those little sperm-like wigglers ';' crawling into my thoughts as you noted, ever so often. They seem to choose their own places to be; no help from me.

Not quick sure what a 'slightly awkward dialogue tagging' is meant here. Since, it is just 'slightly' that will go on my back burner of things to seek out and fix - if I get to it. Time, at my age, becomes an antagonist. So little of it left. Now, it's a matter of priorities. Mine, with regard to writing, is have some fun with things I regret not tackling; writing crazy stuff, for instance, for others to enjoy. Certainly, they won't enjoy it; unless I fix my mess!

 

[dmallord]

I won't comment on the POV swapping since other people did, but I will add onto someone's comment about the use of semicolons. It's not the most important thing to know about how to write a compelling story, but why not talk about it? Just doing it so you get a better idea of what AlinaX was probably getting at.

By the way, if you are reading up on the technical stuff in writing, I would highly recommend The Elements of Style by Strunk & White. It's not even 50 pages long and covers a lot of ground. That should tell you what you need to know!

Semicolons are used to connect two related independent clauses. There are instances where you do not overuse semicolon, but I actually would argue you misuse them:

"And come hell or high water" looks like a dependent clause, if anything. It begins with an unnecessary conjunction ("and") and a verb. The lack of a subject makes this a dependent clause. You could have used a comma to connect these two parts and conveyed the same idea.

A second example of a misused semicolon:

This could've been a beautiful, effective complex sentence. Retyped without changing any vocabulary, this is how it would look:

I italicized the dependent clause in each example, and bolded the subordinating conjunction.

If you want to use a semicolon in description, I would use it to connect similar ideas to each other. They are not necessary in dialogue because a person's speech would not likely distinguish between verbal breaks with the comma or period versus the semicolon. Dialogue should somewhat resemble speech. In your descriptions, the semicolon should be used with those independent clauses.

AKA, subject + predicate (verb & all the other crap that comes after).

It should also be noted that just because a dependent clause is long, doesn't mean it stands on its own. There is, "But he did improve; once his mom married my uncle and came to live here with us."

"...he did improve" is an independent clause. There is a subject ("he") and a predicate ("did improve"). The clause after the semicolon reads as dependent because of the subordinating conjunction ("once"). It makes it seem like this sentence is meant to be written without the semicolon, or even backwards.

"Once his mom married my uncle and came to live here with us, he did improve." (but is unnecessary)

or

"But he did improve once his mom married my uncle and came to live here with us."

If it didn't have "once," it would read as a totally independent clause. "His mom married my uncle and came to live here with us." There is a subject and a predicate.

Of course, once one understands the ins and outs of English grammar, many great writers often selectively cheat at certain rules of grammar for the sake of style. They pick and choose when to do so. It's like learning the rules of anatomy for nude studies before starting to bend them when drawing cartoons or painting abstract art.

I could ramble forever but I won't. I must be chastised by the greats for not stopping when I should've. Just remember that grammar is the easiest thing to go back and fix as a practicing writer, so focus more on your vision and how you communicate that to the audience. Writing & rewriting & revision leads to greater mastery of one's own style, after all... Happy writing!

Incredible! What wonderful clarification! Thank you! You have reworked my own words as examples! That extra effort helps me to follow this so well, now. The use of 'And come hell or high water' is a colloquial usage among those in my area. It always starts with AND ;-) Although, I can overcome that in my writings! I will acquire your referenced writing resource. Thanks for that tidbit of knowledge. Clearly, you are well-versed-master wordsmith! I appreciate the time you spent to enlighten me on semicolons and the examples of my misuse of those pesky connectors.

Thank you, for responding to my plea for help. I feel, now, the pain of the poor reader I abused with my POV and semicolon abuses! I'm going to make that right. I do believe editing making one a better writer! Sitting on the end of times gives me impetus to hurry along in my knowledge acquisition and make those improvements.

 

[writerzblok92]

I'm a victim of this changing PoV in the first chapter of my story but it was really more unintentional than anything else. I had already written a lot of the chapter when I decided to change the POV. I thought I caught all the changes but apparently I didn't.
I understand it makes it difficult and feel stupid for being so sloppy - but I do appreciate my readers for the understanding.
I corrected the problem in subsequent chapters.

 

[dmallord]

I'm a victim of this changing PoV in the first chapter of my story but it was really more unintentional than anything else. I had already written a lot of the chapter when I decided to change the POV. I thought I caught all the changes but apparently I didn't.
I understand it makes it difficult and feel stupid for being so sloppy - but I do appreciate my readers for the understanding.
I corrected the problem in subsequent chapters.

Been right near your angst. A word of advice from someone looking at life from the bottom of the well. It's better to look at this as a positive learning experience. You noted the error(s) and made the subsequent corrections. That process is part of the iterative writing steps to becoming a better writer - not stupid or sloppy - just a step in one of many to achieve refinements in your works. Goldencompulsion might have said that better than i. You were conscientious enough to give a darn and fix those! Now, get out a new sheet of paper and write one-hundred times: I am a good learner and learn from my errors to correct your 'mindset.' ;-)

 

[Bramblethorn]

Semicolons are used to connect two related independent clauses. There are instances where you do not overuse semicolon, but I actually would argue you misuse them:

"And come hell or high water" looks like a dependent clause, if anything. It begins with an unnecessary conjunction ("and") and a verb. The lack of a subject makes this a dependent clause. You could have used a comma to connect these two parts and conveyed the same idea.

A second example of a misused semicolon:

This could've been a beautiful, effective complex sentence. Retyped without changing any vocabulary, this is how it would look:

I italicized the dependent clause in each example, and bolded the subordinating conjunction.

If you want to use a semicolon in description, I would use it to connect similar ideas to each other. They are not necessary in dialogue because a person's speech would not likely distinguish between verbal breaks with the comma or period versus the semicolon. Dialogue should somewhat resemble speech. In your descriptions, the semicolon should be used with those independent clauses.

Good explanation. Just for the sake of completeness (and probably not at all relevant to OP's story) there is one other situation where a semicolon is appropriate: punctuating a list where some of the list items already contain commas.

e.g. "Our breakfast options are scrambled eggs; eggs and sausage; eggs, sausage, and spam; bacon, eggs, and spam; avocado toast, eggs, and spam; and fish, chips, and spam."

 

[MohanSingh]

I need a wash after reading the first few paragraphs.

 

[dmallord]

Thanks for your collective input on the use of POV suggestions and the grammar refresher on semicolons! I've made changes and sent an EDIT version back to Lit. It was posted, finally on June 14th. I made use of Electricblue66's comments and AlinaX's input, having checked their referenced stories as guides. Also made a 'lawnmower' run through those semicolons and wacked away some of those to help weed out the tendency to sprinkle them into the story at will. Hopefully, the next readers will not have as much head scratching to do at the beginning of the story as some of you had to endure.

Thanks for your suggestions. Still room for improvement. It's said that writing is always an iterative process.

Similar to an old saying, 'Each one teaches one.' That is to say, each one of you has taken the time to teach this one a bit about writing.

If you have time and can revisit the story, hopefully, you can reach the end and see if the story has merit.

 

[mirafrida]

Also, entertaining over-use of semicolons

I know it's a failing, but can I just say - I love semicolons

 

[AlinaX]

Me too.