BDSM vs NC/R

[AG31]

I have routinely put my stories into the BDSM category, because they involve stuff like pain and humiliation being done to the MC. I don't put them in NC/R because if they don't start out with the MCs consent, they very rapidly evolve to that point. My stories are all about sexual surrender.

It has recently been brought to my attention that the BDSM category may be assumed to include only that interpretation of BDSM that involves, if not a life style, then norms. Like consent and contracts and trust and aftercare. My stories don't involve any of that, for the most part.

Am I losing out on readers because they avoid stories about the contemporary understanding of BDSM?

But would I lose out on a comparable number of readers because they really expect a strong dose of reluctance in their NC/R stories?

EDIT: I just now read a lot of comments in Fetish or BDSM that point out that BDSM readers are into relationships. My stories are distinguished for being impersonal. Damn! Those suggested other threads when you create an OP. It just makes life so confusing!!!

Alert to @NoTalentHack and @SimonDoom for things said in now-closed "Why Do People Write NC/R?"
"hot to imagine, disgusting to see happen in real life. "

 

[CyranoJ]

There's a vocal faction of the BDSM community, both generally and on Lit, that believes BDSM fiction should be strictly about "the lifestyle" as practiced. That writ does not run for BDSM fantasy and fiction generally (and I personally think it betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of how fiction and fantasy work), and I certainly don't assume it applies to every story in Lit's BDSM category. My guess is that any readers your style would "lose" in either BDSM or NC/R have requirements specific enough that they wouldn't read in the other category anyway.

 

[madelinemasoch]

Am I losing out on readers because they avoid stories about the contemporary understanding of BDSM?

No. Doubtful.

It has recently been brought to my attention that the BDSM category may be assumed to include only that interpretation of BDSM that involves, if not a life style, then norms. Like consent and contracts and trust and aftercare. My stories don't involve any of that, for the most part.

I don't do that either. I am primarily a BDSM category writer. A lot of people really like it! They tell me in email form more than comments, but there are people like that for your stories, too, I'm sure.

I think when you pick BDSM or Fetish to focus on, you're producing something there that someone there will like. It's just too broad a range not to be the case. With a shotgun blast, you're bound to hit something.

 

[AG31]

My guess is that any readers your style would "lose" in either BDSM or NC/R have requirements specific enough that they wouldn't read in the other category anyway.

Now there's a helpful insight! Thanks! (I do want to avoid going through the incredibly long process of getting 8 or so stories re-categorized.)

 

[lovecraft68]

The first requires consent(regardless of what the faction of abusers try to tell you) the other is rape

Others can go on and on and on, but that's the cut and dried indisputable answer.

 

[RainyDayPen]

I am wondering if "Fetish" is the way to go. I put a story in Fetish when it couldn't be categorized well due to spoiling the premise. It actually did very well there even though it had very clear BDSM elements (spanking, humiliation, SPH, bondage, domination and submission.)

I have one series that is literally about a guy going to a domme or "disciplinarian" and I tried to make it semi-realistic even though it's a spanking fantasy. There are safewords. So that one I have in BDSM and I'm fine in that category.

Then there is another one where I have a total power exchange and it's a VERY confusing situation. It's not active consent. Only one negative comment from the BDSM police, but I think they really didn't like it in their category. It did better in NC/R even though the characters signed a contract and enjoy being submissives who receive punishments.

It's just difficult in general because as a switch myself there's times when I consent to a punishment I would find difficult. I'd call that "reluctant" which means it's in the NC/R category right? But I do consent... even if it's scary and hurts at the time. I do NOT feel raped or abused. It's just not so cut and dry always, even in real life.

 

[AG31]

The first requires consent(regardless of what the faction of abusers try to tell you) the other is rape

Others can go on and on and on, but that's the cut and dried indisputable answer.

That hasn't always been true.

 

[Altissimus]

Fetish has low reads and low traffic IME. NC/R gets quite a bit (I've posted there a few times.) BDSM seems more into the D/s than the other elements, IMO, though there are exceptions - and I would agree it's more relationship focused.

I find it irritating that broad categories seem to develop narrow-minded readership expectations. Many of the categories seem to have this.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't think you will "lose" readers, but you will attract some hostile readers. But I'm not sure what else you can do with your story.

I think the whole thing is completely preposterous--the notion that characters in your fantasy fiction should be obligated to abide by the norms of a small population of people who practice what they call "BDSM" in the real world. People who think this way are narrow-minded and don't understand the concept of fiction. But they're out there, so expect to catch some flak from them now and then.

 

[CyranoJ]

That hasn't always been true.

NB: The poster in question has a veritable library of Incest porn on the site, goes on constantly about his daughters, and has previously professed not to understand that there can be consent issues with incest. Take anything he says about "abuse" and "abusers" with a mine's worth of salt.

 

[TheRedChamber]

I have routinely put my stories into the BDSM category, because they involve stuff like pain and humiliation being done to the MC. I don't put them in NC/R because if they don't start out with the MCs consent, they very rapidly evolve to that point. My stories are all about sexual surrender.

Remember that NC/R has a requirement that the 'victim' enjoys it - this if you are starting out as nonconsensual and then writing a surrender non-Con could be the place to go.

That said, I feel like NC/R tends to be more about everyday life suddenly being interrupted by an assault or blackmailer (yeah, it's not a nice category) whereas BDSM tends to be the place for dungeons, whips and the exploration of pain. (and yes contracts and aftercare in many cases)

From what I've read of your stories, I think you're safe sticking in BDSM - I suspect the audience will be more receptive to it.

My own personal bugbear is that everyone seems to be piling on fetish as an alternative to BDSM or as an alternative to Cuckoldry in LW or as an alternative to Interracial for thier own favourite ethnicity etc. Whereas personally I feel it should be left for those fetishes that are a bit off the wall and don't fit anywhere else.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

BDSM is a very political and judgmental readership. As most of the categories are, it is centered around a certain kink and most people who read for a kink will vote judgmentally at least to some degree. "You got the kink wrong! 1*!" Other than the convoluted and downright messy crowd in LW, BDSM is probably the worst category for judgmental scores and feedback. A kink like anal, just give them some guilt free anal and you should be fine. There's a lot less judgment and they're fairly easy to please. BDSM on the other hand ... not so much.

"Domination isn't about that! That's not the lifestyle! Don't write about what you don't know!"

"I wasn't writing about the lifestyle. I just like handcuffs."

"Stay out of our dungeons! 1 star!"

Not everyone in BDSM is that way of course, but that faction is there and can be vocal, and they can be very defensive about their kinks. If you don't care about the scores then no problem, but if you do, tread carefully.

 

[mirafrida]

There's a vocal faction of the BDSM community, both generally and on Lit, that believes BDSM fiction should be strictly about "the lifestyle" as practiced.

I wrote a LW story a while back that had a couple with marital problems blundering into a small, closed-circle neighborhood swingers group, and lots of bad decisions ensuing.

Many readers hated it because swingers/non-monogamy = intolerably bad. Ok, fair, this LW.

Also some people liked it - because although it didn't exactly check their hot-wife fantasy boxes, at least it pissed off the haters, so it couldn't be all bad

But what really made me laugh was the several very serious commentators who opined that this was not how swingers groups should or did work - and then the very serious responses to them from people saying that well, in fact, sometimes groups very much like this did arise, they'd seen it firsthand. I had to smile. It's a story folks, not a treatise on contemporary swingers, nor a manual on how it should be done!

 

[TheRedChamber]

BDSM is a very political and judgmental readership. As most of the categories are, it is centered around a certain kink and most people who read for a kink will vote judgmentally at least to some degree. "You got the kink wrong! 1*!" Other than the convoluted and downright messy crowd in LW, BDSM is probably the worst category for judgmental scores and feedback. A kink like anal, just give them some guilt free anal and you should be fine. There's a lot less judgment and they're fairly easy to please. BDSM on the other hand ... not so much.

"Domination isn't about that! That's not the lifestyle! Don't write about what you don't know!"

"I wasn't writing about the lifestyle. I just like handcuffs."

"Stay out of our dungeons! 1 star!"

Not everyone in BDSM is that way of course, but that faction is there and can be vocal, and they can be very defensive about their kinks. If you don't care about the scores then no problem, but if you do, tread carefully.

I typically write inexperienced doms/subs and, halfway through a scene, will have them think "geeze, maybe I should have (established a safeword)/(used a water-based lube)/(not agreed to be chained up by the first random stranger on FetLife)...oh, well, too late now."

That seems to pacify the BDSM purist while still allowing my characters to do the 'wrong thing'.

 

[RainyDayPen]

My own personal bugbear is that everyone seems to be piling on fetish as an alternative to BDSM or as an alternative to Cuckoldry in LW or as an alternative to Interracial for thier own favourite ethnicity etc. Whereas personally I feel it should be left for those fetishes that are a bit off the wall and don't fit anywhere else.

Ah okay that was confusing for me. Someone else advised me once my femdom stuff might fit better there. I've always called it a "spanking fetish" personally so I even use the word with it when I've described it to partners in the past.

I've heard others say BDSM is for partners exploring dominance / submission together and fetish is for more outright focus on the kink in less of a relationship setting. (see, husband explores dominating and spanking his wife = BDSM and something like college girl agrees to a spanking from her RA would be Fetish.) At least that's what I understood from it. I think I've read the same thread AG has read!