Veronica's Story -- Oct. 5, 2001

The story up for discussion this week is Mr. Neb’s “Veronica’s Story”.

Posted in Erotic Couplings, it’s the story of a stripper and how her life changed one rainy night.

The link --
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=1357

And now *curtain rises dramatically* I turn the stage over to Mr. Neb! *Applause*........

Thank you, thank you.

I don't know if I should be honored or ask for a blindfold and cigarette.

I'll try not to sound defensive right off the bat or bias your thinking before you read the story. I'll just try to provide a little insight as to where the story came from.

My biggest pet peeve with erotica/porn is when there is little to no reason for the characters to be involved sexually. There is so much writing that seems right from the pages of Penthouse a la, "You're never going to believe this but there was this really hot neighbor...." A few hundred words later and that's that.

I didn't(don't) want to get caught up in the romance novel syndrome either and write page after page of plot, character development and setup and then put some sex into it.

"Veronica's Story" was my first real attempt at trying to find the right mixture of many elements. Honestly, it is a story that I am most fond of. At least for me, it strikes a good balance between a literarly effort and a piece of erotica.

This story, in comparison to my others, does not explore a new or expanded sexual experience for the characters. Rather it is a look inward by one of the characters for whom sex has lost its importance.

Thank you again and feel free ask about this or any of my other stories.

Mr. Neb

Hi, Mr. Neb!

So, what would you prefer for your last meal? I’m always kind to my victims as I load the rifle.

I enjoyed the story. It was light-hearted and fun, even with the darker sound of the idea. The main character wasn’t entirely disillusioned, just a little disgusted with the world she’d found. It was a good effort in trying to get into her head, develop some motivation and so on.

Something that bothered me, however, were the first ten or so paragraphs of exposition before we get to the action. (Action does not mean sex, it means that something current is actually happening to the character.) Yes, those first ten paragraphs are a wonderful way to do a character sketch. It’s detailed, and develops motivation. However, this is a character sketch, and, as such, doesn’t belong in the text of the story. Is there a way to incorporate these wonderful details into the action, instead of merely talking about them before the action begins? Ideas?

Also, did you really succeed in avoiding the cliched ‘this man who knocks on my window is scary... no, he’s not... I think I want to fuck him now’? Perhaps a little more persuasion on his part, or even a little more thought process on her part might have made that transition work better. Other ideas? Or am I wrong here?

The sex was good, detailed and interesting. It kept my attention

The setting was really good. I loved the description of the ‘shadow people’. I KNOW these people! (Yeah, I’ve been to a strip club or three. *Sighs*) The only thing I could say about the setting would be to add more to it. There’s a certain feel to a strip joint. Decadent, and yet these are real people, so it has a reality that can’t be missed.

The ending made me smile. You accomplished the main goal of a writer -- to elicit emotion from the reader. The plot was simple, which is what you want in a short story. You kept it focused, and, with the exception of the beginning exposition and the quick switch from her fear of the man and her wanting to bed him, it was a really good read.

Thanks, Mr. Neb!

Mickie

On Veronica's Story
Mr Neb has done a fine, writerly job with this story. Within a fairly common plot--two people meet in the rain, get together, make love--he has made the narrative quite compelling in its details of characterization. He has, as intended, made the sex believable, and other events too (though I'm not sure of the 'together for eternity since the first night' would be my choice; but it does happen). I esp. like her shyness about her breast, and the way she showed herself, but differently, than in her stripping.
A common writing problem, imo, over writing--piling on adjectives and adverbs, 'purple prose'--is quite absent from this piece, which has a limpid, direct style.
If there is one complaint, it's that Mr Neb has sometimes allowed his voice to intrude; the set-up is that *she* tell the story, and she is a stripper, former waitress; one would think, without Mr. Neb's university level vocabulary (unless she's taken a lot of courses since settling with Mr. Right).
Mr. Neb has her use quite improbable words at times: 'euphemism', 'pseudo-trance', 'deliberate firmness', 'throws[=throes]', 'womanhood', erratic' and 'saturated.' Occasionally a whole sentence that is Mr. Nebs, pops out of her mouth: "The slippery addition made the attention to my nipples all the more enjoyable."
Given Mr. Nebs mastery of writers' skills, I'm sure he can attend to this matter if he chooses.
--abashed-dreamer
lfmn2x@hotmail.com

Polish

Mr. N -

Nice story, Mr. Neb.

Summary:Stripper, fed up with her emotionless life empty of real passion, meets a stranger whom she feels mysteriously bonded to, makes love with him and changes her life.

Good things: You paint some very nice images while leaving the details to the reader. I could see the urban parking lot she had to run to in the middle of a terrific rain/lightning storm. Also, you can create an incredible sense of the onslaught of a moment. In particular, I am referring to your description of the sperm flooding into her mouth.

Improving: That paragraph told me that you have the ability to make this story MUCHbetter. That paragraph seems incredibly polished (eg. Yeah, polish, like in polishing a table, not polish as in Polish sausage) when compared with the rest of the prose.

Mickie (above) seem to hit on one item about how the two strangers seem to bond but in no way do we really get to "see" this. We get to see many other things: the rainstorm, their meeting, the sex, but the all-important bonding scene is described more than watched by the reader.

The part that leapt out at me was the paragraph after the line "He accepted":

"It was so late but neither of us had "come down" enough to go to sleep. The more we talked, the more comfortable I felt. He was a gentle man, always polite, with a kind voice. He listened well when he needed to but also shared his thoughts freely. We seemed a lot alike. The words that seemed most appropriate for us were "lonely, disillusioned and sad". Because of our common outlook, we seemed to gain strength from each other. Eventually, our talk came around again to the present situation."

This should really be a scene that unfolds for the reader complete with appropriate dialog as described. Not a description of what happened. How was he a gentleman? What did he think/say? How did we have a common outlook and gain strength from one another? Show us, don't tell us.

In your best paragraph (Okay, I'll call it "the sperm paragraph"), you work all the senses that flow through her brain: sight, smell, taste, emotional level, hearing, feel. You do this once-in-a-while in other places, but you really need to do it here, when they bond. Afterall, the bonding of these two strangers is the whole point of your story. Make it unforgettable.

This is particularly noticeable when you compare how she describes her sense in the "sperm paragraph" with the first time they have sex a few paragraphs earlier. What happens is described, but how the sex feels, sounds, makes her feel (emotional level) are not described at all. After all, they hardly know each other. How is it that the sex was so good, then? Wasn't she surprised by that?

Details: It seems like the story was polished a little in some place and less in others. That will be my number one suggestion to you for improving. It's a real paint to do it, but if you make one part of your story great and the rest so-so, it shows up too much. Good that you put the greatest effort towards the end of the story, but you need more in the rest.

Specifically, where there were several mispellings in one section (right at the beginning of the sex). At first, I thought you were getting too excited in writing it to notice, but you handled the better sexual situations later with aplomb, so I'll just imagine it was carelessness instead. The are is towards the end of page one in the LIT posting: "parted my rode", "I was loosing control...". "opened my rode completely", etc.

Nice work, you can do better.

- Judo

Ok. Where do I begin? (No, not the song.)

Mickie...

I felt that the preliminary stuff worked better at the beginning and essentially in one piece rather than breaking it up in pieces and interjecting it as needed. I thought the flow of the story would be better if more continuous rather than interrupted in order to bring in background information. I don't think I could have introduced that information in a way that wouldn't have been as intrusive as a TV commercial or a sports timeout.

Did I really succeed in avoiding the cliche? I guess that is up to you and from your comment, I guess I didn't. I will admit that that was the toughest part of the story. How do you make that transition and more importantly, how much time do you spend on it. We all know that they were going end up together but still, it must be believable but not too long so that the reader gets bored.

I liked the idea that she was the instigator. This was an awakening for her and I felt it should be entirely on her terms. I guess I tried to keep her the center of attention and make the transition quick by starting it out as an impuslive kiss on her part. I guess I only partially succeeded but I was concerned that with the realtively lengthy buildup, I had already used up the patience of most readers. Ya win some, ya lose some.

I guess I won one with that "shadow people" bit. That one felt good as soon as it came out.

* * * * *

abashed-dreamer....

Well no one said it was for eternity. I thought it was a romantic touch and just a symbolizm for Veronica having romance back into her life and a change in direction for her.

You make a very interesting point about my "voice" creeping in. I never realized that and it is one that I will keep in mind. In retrospect, I realize why that has happened. Yes, it is from her perspective and there may be limitations in order to stay in character but there is also the reader to contend with. There needs to be insight and color provided to the reader that is certainly outside the ability of the character. A fine line indeed. Let's just make this assuption. Veronica gave up stripping and earned a degree in literature from Vassar and wrote this story as part of her memiors when in her fifties with great introspection. Hey! First I had to think like a woman and now you want me to write like one and who said strippers have to be dumb?

* * * * * *

JUDO

Thanks for the imagery compliment. It all just seemed to flow out. I actually surprised myself!

Making it MUCH better? You give me too much credit. There are certainly some improvements that I can make and will consider all these suggestions but a "real" writer I am not. This is just about as good as it's going to get I'm afraid.

You have an extremely good point about using dialog and other misssing elements to help make that transistion. I had hoped that the reader would fill in some of that because each reader may have different ways in which they would make that transition. Supporting the transition better and with dialog would have made the story longer though. I suppose I should have taken that "hit" and added more there.

I am not in complete agreement on your comments about the degree of detail and polish. These things are timing elements and can be increased or decreased in order to change emphasis, intensity and focus. Writing the entire story like that would not give the reader any pacing. An example is in action adventure movies. Indiana Jones is an fine example in that the calm moments setup the more dramatic ones. Having a movie of 100 minutes of car chases, and other thills would not work. I belive that some things need to be more glossed over and others examined much more intently.

These timing and pacing issues can be delt with by action and also details. When details are absent, that part of the story is a bridge to other more central events. At least that is what I was going for. If I didn't make it, then forget everything I've said.

Gee. I don't know which I like better. Typos and mispellings because of sexual tension or carelessness!

* * * * * *

Thanks for your comments. Ready for Round 2

Good stuff. Excellent descriptions of the heated sex. Big Problem Alert: YOU NEED AN EDITOR!! I was taken out of the action several times by missing articles, missssssspelllings, and other trivial junk. Try reading your story aloud to another person to see if you've got the tense or articles correct. Also if you're wondering if your plot could be cliched it probably is. Just try to imagine your plot as a pitch to a San Fernando Valley video dude. Would he buy it? Yes? Then it definitely is a cliche. I think what works on Literotica is something between Forum and Late Night Cinemax (not my preference).

Anyway, I'm not trying to tear you down but build you up. Keep working and trying to entertain and erect.

Marxist__________

A very good story.

As has been said by others, wordy setup. However That setup did pay off in the opening scenario for the sex.

Nice twist on the ending.

Liked it.

As one who has himself been accused of being too wordy ("Guilty, your honor!") I can sympathise with the desire to set the scene, but the intro could have been cut down to half its length without spoiling the tale. Generally, I liked the story, including the nice little twist in the tail.
The typos and mis-spellings jarred. Not enough to completely spoil the story, but enough to be noticed.
I would have preferred more dialog(ue), but that's probably because I enjoy writing dialog myself and I like to see how the other writers handle it. Overall verdict, could be improved, but enjoyable nevertheless.

Alex

Mr_Neb said:

Making it MUCH better? You give me too much credit. There are certainly some improvements that I can make and will consider all these suggestions but a "real" writer I am not.

Click to expand...

"Nyah, nyah, nya, nyah-nyah!

Oh,yes, you are! You're not gettin' off that easy!"


- Judo

For those of you that thought the opening was to wordy, I'd like to know in what way.

Did you think in was too wordy in that it took long to get to the sex and isn't that the point anyway?

or

Is it too wordy in that there was just way too much character and atmostphere than what was required? Did you find yourself saying, "Ok, Ok, I got the point. Let's get on with it."

Since you ask...

The personal detail is, well, too detailed. The family/personal background, while relevant to what made her a stripper, does little to move the story on. Later in the story, you tell how the couple got on well together and you could have brought some of the history out in conversation. This could help to explain what brought them closer together.
I used to think that it was easier to edit than to create, but since I started trying to analyse my own and other people's work I'm not so sure. I keep trying to remember the adage "Show, don't tell" but I don't always succeed, certainly not in my own work where I've hit a brick wall in my writing efforts.

Alex

Action is not just sex, it's anything current that's going on, even if she's just walking along a street. Although, yes, this is a porn site, and people skim down to 'get to the sex' as well. The best way to hook people on a sex site is to start with the sex, and explain later.

However -- the best way to hook anyone into a story, whether it be sex or not, is to begin with some kind of happening, and give only the information about the character that will move the plot forward. The way you've got all that detail written out sounds like an amateur romance writer.

Perhaps have her stripping as you're telling all of this about her. Include the shadow people into the narrative, and her reaction to them. Her reaction shows much more about her than the beginning ten paragraphs, anyway. Showing character should be in the details of her actions, and some thought processes, not telling us what led up to this story. If the backstory is so interesting, then make them into scenes, with action. Otherwise, it really is superfluous.

I agree with Judo, here -- yes, you could do better. I mean that with all respect, Mr. Neb. Your stories are some of the better written on the site, but you just aren't ready for that Hugo award yet.

Exposition at the beginning to introduce the character is and always will be one of my own pet peeves. It takes away from the story, and, in my opinion doesn't add to it. There are, of course, exception to this rule, but I don't think this qualifies for the exception.

Mickie

Very good point about providing the background while she was stripping. It would have made the paradox even more vivid. She would have been mentally going over the lousy aspects of her life while in the process of dancing seductively.

veronica's story

not a bad read, but i agree the intro could have been downsized a smidge...as far as the typos i use MS word which corrects many simple spelling errors, punctuation etc. if you dont have it u may want to invest, lord knows i make plenty! over all i must say i di enjoy the story!
cheers chris

even the best have room for refinement...

About the intro:

I catch myself doing this all the time. It looks great in a book or a good novella. In a short it needs to be worked into the action. She could've seen someone in the audience that reminded her of a past employer. There are plenty of tricks authors I admire use. Authors, I can easily say, I shall never compare with.

We never catch up to our heroes.

Grammar and spelling can be easily fixed. Marxist has a point on that. One problem is the online population doesn't practice their grammar enough. I chat with too many ellipses.

I like the flow and spead of the encounter itself. The ending improbable, but highly desirable. Readers want the fantasy.

It's good work. Whatever anyone here says, keep it up. Writing only gets better.

Glad to see some new folks posting here! After a long time with my head in the sand I'll try to chime in more often. Much more.

Anyway, to the story. I didn't think the exposition was too long-- I actually prefer stories that take the time to introduce the characters, the setting, the situation. I think what Alex said, "Show, don't tell", is a lesson every writer really needs to take to heart.

For example, we learn in the first paragraph Veronica is 5'10, 130 pounds, with long brown hair and green eyes and nice, natural breasts. Sounds yummy. But instead of just listing her substantial charms, maybe we could have learned what she looked like from a conversation she could have had with one of the scary lurking dudes. He could have cornered her after a dance and, in talking to her, trying to tell her how hot she was, freaked her out and established the sinister mood even more. Just one possibility among many.

It's strange, but "showing, not telling" is one of those rules that everyone breaks all the time, without thinking. That's where editing comes in, really rigorous, detailed editing. The un-fun part about editing is having to cut stuff you spent a lot of time and effort writing because it needs changed. A drag, but it makes for a better story.

I also don't mind stories that take their time getting to the sexy parts, and in this story the pacing was fine. And the sex was fine, very fine, very well written. I liked the line, "I'm coming! I unnecessarily announced and instantly fell over into the climactic abyss." I liked the word "unnecessarily" Pretty much everything you say during sex is unnecessary, but sometimes it's hard to keep your mouth shut when it's going good.

The typos and such don't bother me all that much. Be nice to clean them up, but so long as I understand what word the author meant to use, I'm OK. Not saying that you shouldn't use spellcheck, but simple mistakes don't take away from my enjoyment. Unless it gets ridiculous. So my point is...overstated.

I've been thinking a lot about strippers lately, and not just for the usual reasons (gorgeous naked women). Well, that's part of it. A big part. Anyway, seven of my friends have gotten married in the last year (I've blown about $500 on Waterford crystal this year. Christ) so I've been to seven bachelor parties, meaning seven trips to various strip clubs. I like to people watch anywhere I go, and a strip club is more fun than most places. I'm just fascinated by the whole dynamic, pretty girls dancing for guys who give them money for their efforts.

And I'm not alone, as this story (and dozens of others on this site) will attest. There's a really good interview on Salon.com about a woman who just published a book about her career as a dancer. It sounds like an interesting book, and the interview gives some really interesting insights into the stripping game. If you liked the story, liked the situation, like strippers, definietely check it out.

Here's the link: http://www.salon.com/books/int/2001/10/09/burana/index.html

It looks as though this thread is starting to fade so I guess some sort of wrap up is in order. Thanks to all that took the time to read the story and participate in this discussion. For the most part, your comments, criticisms and suggestions were done in a positive and constructive manner. I am sure that your influences with be reflected in future efforts.

Thanks and "see you in the funny papers."

Mr. Neb

Mr. Neb

I can only home I get constructive critizism from such as these. I felt like a minnow in the shark pool, just putting my comment in.

I'm not tardy, I'm fashionably procrastinatorial.

Okay, everyone seemed to cover most everything already.

I would like to touch on character development a little bit. I'm immersed in a first person novel where I'm trying to develop the other characters so that the narrator sees them one way and the audience sees how she deceives herself or how the characters really are. It ain't easy.

There was some development on her part, but I think there could have been a little bit more. I didn't get much feel from her about herself or him, other than apathy. I think, perhaps, it went a little too fast for me in places. The opening was a bit wordy in that it had some unnecessary things in it. Whispersecret always tells me that if it doesn't further the plot/subplot, it doesn't belong. Some of it could have been cut. The cold stats turned me off a little as well, I don't know many women who think that way. I had trouble with why she became a stripper when she didn't want to be sexually used, why she had sex with the total stranger when she didn't seem to have any attraction for him at all, and how they managed to form enough of a connection for the romantic ending to happen.

On the plus side, your sensory descriptions were outstanding. Beyond mechanical difficulties, you managed to cover all of the senses in a very provocative manner. Kudos on that! Sight, smell, taste, feel, sound, everything about the sex was in there. Wow!