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Old 12-05-2013, 05:30 PM   #1
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RIP Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela

Died today at age 95.

Revolutionary, anti-apartheid hero, first black South African president.

Nobel Peace Prize of 1993.

The world lost a great man today.


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Old 12-05-2013, 06:09 PM   #2
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There are those who also reckon that he was a convicted murderer.
Personally, I am interested in seeing who can make the most capital out of he death.

RIP, Mr Mandela. You did a damned good job.
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Old 12-05-2013, 06:31 PM   #3
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My wife has a framed poster of him on the wall of her office with the caption "One person can make a difference"

This guy most certainly proved that.

The world is a weaker place without him.
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Old 12-05-2013, 06:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruel2BKind View Post
Died today at age 95.

Revolutionary, anti-apartheid hero, first black South African president.

Nobel Peace Prize of 1993.

The world lost a great man today.


http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...ela-dead-at-95
Best of the century.
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:02 PM   #5
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When I was at primary school in the early 80s my best friend was a guy from South Africa, his mother always referred to Mandela as a terrorist. Frankly I couldn't care less what he did or didn't do prior to going to prison, the man was an inspiration and one of the few individuals who genuinely mattered.
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:13 PM   #6
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Today the world lost an acknowledged saint. Where others preached blood and revenge he held for peace and reconciliation. The world needs more like him.
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:18 PM   #7
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Granted, he did some "bad" things (in the usual reckoning) to try to make his point to his country and to the world, but all I can think of when I think of him is of his strength while imprisoned and his courage, before and after, to stand up and challenge a formidable system of hate and injustice and say "this is wrong," and to try to make it right.
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:58 PM   #8
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A 95 year life like that....I feel less loss than gratitude that Mandela wasn't one of those cut down before he could finish what he started. He was lucky and we were lucky that he lived so long and was able to do so much.

R.I.P., sir, you more than earned it.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:10 PM   #9
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Most of the Founding Father of the United States were terrorists in their time. Mandela was a much-bigger-than-life Founding Father.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sr71plt View Post
Most of the Founding Father of the United States were terrorists in their time. Mandela was a much-bigger-than-life Founding Father.
Meaning?
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
Meaning?
Our founding fathers were propagandists and terrorists against the English. Rolihlahla fought viciously and was a terrorist against the apartheid government.

The winners write the history books.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruel2BKind View Post
Our founding fathers were propagandists and terrorists against the English. Rolihlahla fought viciously and was a terrorist against the apartheid government.

The winners write the history books.
I'm agree on both points (although I think our founding father's started off with good intentions then became guilty of the same crimes of their "oppressors") I was just trying to figure out if his comment of "being a larger than life founding father" was meant in a negative light.
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Old 12-05-2013, 10:03 PM   #13
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Why, so you can just continue being snotty? The Founding Fathers of the United States founded a country (using classic terrorist tactics) and reinvigorated a philosophy of government. Mandela's life and efforts represented something that has been even more universal than that. And I don't care how you want to screw that around to attack me again on the boards.
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Old 12-05-2013, 10:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sr71plt View Post
Why, so you can just continue being snotty? The Founding Fathers of the United States founded a country and reinvigorated a philosophy of government. Mandela's life and efforts represented something that has been even more universal than that. And I don't care how you want to screw that around to attack me again on the boards.
I didn't attack you I asked what you meant. You said the founding father's were terrorists and he was a larger than life founding father. Sounded like you were equating him to being a terrorist so wanted you to clarify it.

Which you can't do without sounding like a dick.

But I'll let it go at that. This thread is to mourn a man with traits you couldn't fathom. Decency, unselfishness and integrity.
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Old 12-06-2013, 01:27 AM   #15
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Mandela will be forgotten by Christmas.
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Old 12-06-2013, 01:31 AM   #16
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Obviously, LC, you neither know history nor read the thread before deciding to disrupt it with your vendetta and either to decide not to understand what I posted or being too dumb to understand it (probably both). Mandela was imprisoned for 27 years, convicted of being a terrorist. I (and others) posted that it was terrorism in the vein that Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, George Washington, Patrick Henry, etc. were terrorists--and I noted that the "terrorism" he practiced had even a more universal effect than that of the American Founding Fathers.
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Old 12-06-2013, 04:03 AM   #17
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Politics in both America and Britain in the late eighteenth century was a violent calling. The career of the radical John Wilkes (1727 -1797) or the Gordon Riots in London in 1780 clearly indicate that.

It was the same in the 50's and 60's in South Africa. Sure Mandela blew up some electricity pylons, but he didn't machine gun an unarmed crowd as at Sharpville. Taken as a whole Mandela was a great servant to his people - his greatest gift perhaps was insisting that the former oppressors be identified but not victimized. Compare that to Mugabe in Zimbabwe who went after the white minority and destroyed his country for the sake of revenge.

Mandela will almost certainly be deified as the father of his nation and pan African independence - and just as certainly his legacy will be betrayed by his own people.
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Old 12-06-2013, 09:07 AM   #18
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'He was a great man'

I agree totally with that but in the miasma of regret you have to accept he was far from being a saint.

He was a terrorist in his younger days. As leader of the MK terrorist branch of the ANC, he oversaw bombings and killings in white shopping centres and other places. That is why the authorities had to incarcerate him - albeit in a former leper colony.

Reading 'The Long Road to Freedom' - his path toward peace and reconciliation - it is clear.

He achieved miracles but he was no saint.

RIP Madiba
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:53 AM   #19
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There are no spelling errors in this post. If you see them, it was not me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruel2BKind View Post
Our founding fathers were propagandists and terrorists against the English. Rolihlahla fought viciously and was a terrorist against the apartheid government.
Total bullshit-------^
What the actual fuck. You fail @ American. You fail @ Liberty. You fail @ Truth.
Read the Declaration of Independence. Those men could have been put to death for simply signing their names.

Now:
As to this Mandella thing, I found this article today::
http://news.yahoo.com/mandela-man-on...051042047.html

I figured since everyone says he's so great when they are on TV, now and before, that I had to find an opposing opinion.

Well, the article still says he was so great, but from what I can tell he lead a violent armed revolution against his government rather than peacefully protesting. Bad man.

Then I found the comments::
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahoo! member
Nelson Mandela was the head of UmKhonto we Sizwe, (MK), the terrorist wing of the ANC and South African Communist Party. He had pleaded guilty to 156 acts of public violence including mobilizing terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places, including the Johannesburg railway station. Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed.

Source: The State v. Nelson Mandela et al, Supreme Court of South Africa, Transvaal Provincial Division, 1963-1964, Indictment.

THE ANC'S VICTIMS WERE MOSTLY CIVILIANS:1981
– 2 car bombs at Durban showrooms1983
– Church Street Bomb (killed 19, wounded 217)1984
– Durban car bomb (killed 5, wounded 27)1985-1987
– At least 150 landmines on farm roads (killed 125)1985
– Amanzimtoti Sanlam shopping centre bomb Dec 23 (killed 2 white women and 3 white children)1986
– Magoo’s Bar bomb (killed 3, wounded 69)1986
– Newcastle Court bomb (wounded 24)1987
– Johannesburg Court bomb (killed 3, wounded 10)1987
– Wits command centre car bomb (killed 1, wounded 68)1988
– Johannesburg video arcade (killed 1 unborn baby, wounded 10)1988
– Roodepoort bank bomb (killed 4, wounded 18)1988
– Pretoria Police housing unit, 2 bombs (wounded 3)1988
– Magistrate’s Court bomb (killed 3)1988
– Benoni Wimpy Bar bomb (killed 1, wounded 56)1988
– Witbank shopping centre bomb (killed 2, wounded 42)1988
– Ellis Park Rugby Stadium car bomb (killed 2, wounded 37)Late 1980s
– numerous Wimpy Restaurant bombs (killed many, wounded many)

The ANC also made explosives disguised as children's toys. Apartheid was wrong, but Mandela was a violent, Marxist, terrorist.
I also found this bit::
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahoo! member
"Necklacing" (tire soaked in gasoline, then placed over the victim's head and shoulders, then matches are thrown until one hits ... the victim screams in agony as Mandela laughs along with his other Communist savages.) ...This is Mandela's "legacy" he was a brutal terrorist and Communist thug.
It's going to get worse when I start chasing down the rest of it.
If you think of Mandella as the terrorist he actually was, then the people speaking of his epicness become clearly what they are.

Yes, apartheid was bad. No, I am not a racist.
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:11 AM   #20
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No spelling errors here either

Methinks this man is bad:
http://www.spainvia.com/sarahmandela.htm

Quote:
No matter how many speeches are given or how many news articles are written, it is safe to bet that the full truth about Mandela will not be told except by those who know and care about history being recorded factually.

In fact the truth about Mandela is so hidden in mythology and misinformation that most know nothing about him prior to Robben island, and those who do tend to exercise a form of self censorship, designed to bolster the myth whilst consigning uncomfortable facts into the mists of history.

For most people all they know about Mandela, prior to his release in 1990, was that he had spent 27 years in prison and was considered by many on the left at the time (and almost everyone now) to be a political prisoner. However, Mandela was no Burmese Aung San Suu Kyi, he was not an innocent, democratically elected leader, imprisoned by an authoritarian government.
...and then::
Quote:
Mandela was the terrorist leader of a violent terrorist organisation, the ANC (African National Congress) which was responsible for many thousands of, mostly black, deaths. The ANC's blood spattered history is frequently ignored, but reminders occasionally pop up in the most embarrassing places, indeed as recently as this month the names of Nelson Mandela and most of the ANC remained on the US government's terrorist watch list along with al-Qaeda, Hezbollah and the Tamil Tigers. Of course the forces of political correctness are rushing to amend that embarrassing reminder from the past. However, Mandela's name was not on that list by mistake, he was there because of his Murderous past.
Did he ever apologize? Did he follow the rule of Law for his land? What kind of shining example did he set?

Why did the president order flags at half mast for this? That's public desecration of a flag ON A FEDERAL BUILDING.

This was the first link that came up on: 'the truth about mandela'
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:16 AM   #21
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http://www.spainvia.com/sarahmandela.htm

Quote:
It is true that Mandela approved that massacre and other ANC killings from his prison cell, and there is no evidence that he personally killed anyone but the same could be said about Stalin or Hitler, and the violent history of the ANC, the organisation he led is not in question.
Bold claim?
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:23 AM   #22
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Same link:

Quote:
In the second of two articles examining the life of Nelson Mandela, in advance of Friday's concert in Hyde Park celebrating the living legend's 90th birthday, I shall look at his legacy and the new South Africa which he created after coming to power on a surge of worldwide optimism and hope in 1994, when, following the end of Apartheid, he and his followers promised a new dawn for what became termed the Rainbow Nation.

Today South Africa has the reputation of being one of the most dangerous and crime ridden nations on Earth which is not actively at War. In 2001, only seven years after the end of Apartheid, whilst the city of Amsterdam in the Netherlands with 5,6 murders per 100,000 population was declared the 'murder capitol of Europe', Johannesburg, with 61.2 murders per 100,00 population and remains the world's top murder city.

In South Africa as a whole, the murder rate is seven times that of America, in terms of rape the rate is ten times as high and includes the ugly phenomenon of child rape, one of the few activities in which South Africa is now a world leader.
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:35 AM   #23
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http://engine.4dsply.com/Redirect.en...-washington%2F

Video in that link

Quote:
Commenting on the death of former South African leader Nelson Mandela, Charles Krauthammer said the late icon shared at least one trait with George Washington.

“And the last thing he did which is utterly remarkable, is after five years in office, he steps down,” Krauthammer said on Fox News’ “Special Report” Wednesday. ”That’s George Washington. That does not happen often in Africa or anywhere. He never took the power to his head. He never was intoxicated by it. And the example he set is extremely unusual and probably the most lasting to his country.”
He's speaking about the two term precedent, not revolution.
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:17 PM   #24
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http://www.thetruthaboutsouthafrica.....html#_/exjun_

Quote:
When did he become the messiah? It really irritates me. How many people are just bowing down to the man because the world's media is making him out to be the Savior of all people?Truth is, the WHITES in South Africa voted to abolish Apartheid. The old terrorist was IN JAIL. HE didn't end Apartheid. In fact, he did very little to end it. He was chosen as a figurehead by the media, big business and the Nats.

But go on, have your hero. We all need a messiah.
...this is the kicker::
Quote:
When Mandela was arrested, the following bombing materials were found on the farm where he stayed:
210,000 hand grenades
48,000 anti-personnel mines
1,500 time devices
144 tons of ammonium nitrate
21,6 tons of aluminium powder
1 ton of black powder
'nuff said. This Mandela was a bad human being.
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Old 12-06-2013, 02:49 PM   #25
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Yah... Payday is going on ignore.

My lit experience has been better since SR and Scummy went on ignore, and even they didn't go specifically onto in memorium posts and try to tear down the dead. (as far as I can tell)

Bye bye Payday, I can't say it's been nice
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