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Old 09-16-2007, 05:00 PM   #1
Lorianna
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Is including minors in an erotic story child porn?

This is something that has been on my mind for some time now. I've read two erotica books that had minors in them, although the age wasn't mentioned. I knew by the description of the characters. But I noticed you can't submit stories on here with minors in them (you also can't submit bestiality stories, which is absurd) Hey! I don't want to have sex with animals or minors, but what's wrong with including them in a sexual plot or situation? So long as the minor isn't too young, of course. I wouldn't include a 7 year old girl/boy, but maybe a 15 year old, nor would they be coerced to do anything. Not in my plots!

So, is that considered child porn or something? That's stupid if it is. It's FICTION!

I'd like some information regarding this.
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Old 09-16-2007, 05:01 PM   #2
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This site is owned by Laurel and Manu, so they are the ones who can decide what is and is not allowed on this site, no matter what you think.
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Old 09-16-2007, 05:06 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorianna
This is something that has been on my mind for some time now. I've read two erotica books that had minors in them, although the age wasn't mentioned. I knew by the description of the characters. But I noticed you can't submit stories on here with minors in them (you also can't submit bestiality stories, which is absurd) Hey! I don't want to have sex with animals or minors, but what's wrong with including them in a sexual plot or situation?
You can include children in any erotic story so long as they're not involved in any of the sex. And there are plenty such stories here on Lit. Romantic stories of single moms and dads with little kids meeting and falling in love, fantasy stories of elves or fairies coming to visit little children and ending up sneaking into bed with the parents, BDSM stories where mom and dad drop off the kids at the baby sitters before a night of kinky sex. The ONLY stipulation on this site is that anyone present in the sex scene be over 18.

You can also have as many stories as you like with mythical creatures if that's where you get your jollies. And the characters in your stories can own pets if you like, they just can't have sex with the pet.

The over-18 rule, by the by, is NOT because the owners of the site think that anyone under 18 having sex means kiddie porn...you're putting words in their mouths there! The owners of this site know full well that teenagers have sex. But there are organizations out there who want to pull down sites like this one for being "immoral," for "encouraging," with these stories of consequence-free sex, underage kids to engage in sexual activities, or, worse, encouraging adults to have sex with minors which, like it or not, is still against the law even if that minor is one day short of their 18th birthday. To avoid being accused of such things and dealing with doors being broken down, confiscated computers, lawyers, court fees, etc., this site takes no chances. Why should it? Just to please you?

All sex between those who are 18 years and over. No sex with realistic animals. If you want said folk to have children, fine. Good for you. Just don't have those kids anywhere in sight when you write up the sex scenes. And if you want sex with non-humans, write for the Fantasy section and use mythical creatures. Thems the rules of THIS site. If you don't like them, there are other sites that don't have such rules...or you can create your own.
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Old 09-16-2007, 05:22 PM   #4
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Ok, first all, I was merely asking if it's regarded as child porn...as in by the government...to include minors in erotica, in sex scenes. For example, if I were to write a story from the perspective of a 15 year old girl who has sex, either with others her age, or adults, could I get in trouble for it? Maybe I should have explained more thoroughly, but that was the question I was meaning to ask.
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Old 09-16-2007, 05:27 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorianna
Ok, first all, I was merely asking if it's regarded as child porn...as in by the government...to include minors in erotica, in sex scenes. For example, if I were to write a story from the perspective of a 15 year old girl who has sex, either with others her age, or adults, could I get in trouble for it? Maybe I should have explained more thoroughly, but that was the question I was meaning to ask.
This site wouldn't allow you to post such a story. There are other sites that would allow you to post it. And, of course, you could post it on your own site or blog.

Would it be considered kiddie porn? I don't think most folk would see it that way, but the WWW is big and there are a lot of readers out there with odd ideas. Someone *might* accuse you of it. Someone undoubtedly would be offended by it...as people are always offended by someone. Could they get you jailed or your story removed? Again, unlikely.

Go down to 12 or 13, especially with an adult, and you might start to get into trouble.
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Old 09-16-2007, 05:36 PM   #6
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I did write a story once that had children in it. I've read a few that had children as characters. But none have included children in any kind of sexual or sexually inferred activities.

As far as lit is concerned, children are born without knowlege or genitals. On their 18th birthday suddenly their genitals spring forth and they become fully cognizant of everything concerning sex as if by magic.

That is my understanding of the rules of this site.
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Old 09-16-2007, 05:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenny_Jackson
As far as lit is concerned, children are born without knowlege or genitals. On their 18th birthday suddenly their genitals spring forth and they become fully cognizant of everything concerning sex as if by magic.
Kinda like how nobody had sex, had menstrual cycles or went to the bathroom in the television universe of the 1950s and 1960s?
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Old 09-16-2007, 06:03 PM   #8
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I would consider "child porn" to be a depiction of pre-pubescent kids in a sexual content.

The "no minors" thing is because the site owners of literotica don't want to risk getting busted.

Personally, I think there's a huge difference between depictions of sex between two minors and sex between a "major" and a minor.
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Old 09-16-2007, 06:26 PM   #9
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And what are some of these sites, 3113?

Sub Joe, yes, a depiction, which I consider to be a movie or picture. It would all be fictional in a plotline. What's the harm? No one is actually be coerced or exploited, and people ought to have the freedom to write about whatever they want. Freedom of speech, you know. Personally, I wouldn't like a plot about rape, unless it's just RP rape, but actuall rape, no. But I won't tell anyone not to write about it, if they want...in a condemning or non-condemning manner...so long as it's all fictional, of course.

But I can understand Literotica's policy on this. Many would get the wrong idea, and think this site supports child molestation. But the policy on bestiality, no, I don't understand that. I mean, you can submit plots involving incest, which is illegal in many states and countries, just like bestiality. So what's the problem with that?
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Old 09-16-2007, 06:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorianna
And what are some of these sites, 3113?

Sub Joe, yes, a depiction, which I consider to be a movie or picture. It would all be fictional in a plotline. What's the harm? No one is actually be coerced or exploited, and people ought to have the freedom to write about whatever they want. Freedom of speech, you know. Personally, I wouldn't like a plot about rape, unless it's just RP rape, but actuall rape, no. But I won't tell anyone not to write about it, if they want...in a condemning or non-condemning manner...so long as it's all fictional, of course.

But I can understand Literotica's policy on this. Many would get the wrong idea, and think this site supports child molestation. But the policy on bestiality, no, I don't understand that. I mean, you can submit plots involving incest, which is illegal in many states and countries, just like bestiality. So what's the problem with that?
That would be a question to put directly to the managers/owners of the site. They have full right to put any limits they want on the categories covered on the site. Pretty useless for any others to argue among themselves about it. There are buttons hidden here and there for sending PMs to either Laurel or Manu, the managers of the site.

But I think the straight answer to your original question is that enough consider sex with minors to be actionable child porn to put an unwanted spotlight (by many who contribute stories here) on this site by law enforcement if it permitted posting of such stories.

As far as bestiality, maybe the owners consider that adhorrent behavior but incest not. It's their call. If you'd like to kick in an investment in the site, maybe they'd change their opinion for you. It's worth a try, if you're interested.
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Old 09-16-2007, 06:57 PM   #11
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It's allowed as long as they aren't in the sex scene or anything like that. If you just have characters that are under 18, that is perfectly fine. That might be a good thing for a fun little story idea I had, that falls under celebrity but also fantasy-ish.

In it, it's like a high school setting but alot of students are basically age-degraded celebrities who are in the same school for some reason even if a certain one never went to high school. The main character is 18 year old Paris Hilton who dropped out in reality, but in that, she's a senior.

With this new fact I found out with characters being able to be under 18, I don't need to make her and Nicky the same age or anything like that.

Just wanted to mention that.
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Old 09-16-2007, 07:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3113
And the characters in your stories can own pets if you like, they just can't have sex with the pet.

Does that include hedgehogs?

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Old 09-16-2007, 07:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa Denton
Does that include hedgehogs?

If the hedgehog is the mythical Great Hedgehog In The Sky that is both immortal and friends with the Giant Pumpkin then sex with that mythical hedgehog might be acceptable if both of you are over 18 years old. Of course the Great Hedgehog In The Sky is immutable and has been around since The Big Bang (which is the last time the Great Hedgehog In The Sky had sex) so is well over 18 years old.

How do you have sex with The Great Hedgehog In The Sky?





Very, very cautiously...

We don't want to cause another Big Bang, do we?

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Old 09-16-2007, 07:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oggbashan
If the hedgehog is the mythical Great Hedgehog In The Sky that is both immortal and friends with the Giant Pumpkin then sex with that mythical hedgehog might be acceptable if both of you are over 18 years old. Of course the Great Hedgehog In The Sky is immutable and has been around since The Big Bang (which is the last time the Great Hedgehog In The Sky had sex) so is well over 18 years old.

How do you have sex with The Great Hedgehog In The Sky?





Very, very cautiously...

We don't want to cause another Big Bang, do we??


Well Og, how many years is it in hedgehog years before they are 18 human years old?

I don't wanna make any mistakes.

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Old 09-16-2007, 07:57 PM   #15
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A hedgehogs heartrate is something like 320 bpm so hedgehog years equate to about 4.5:1. So if life expectancy of humans is 75 then hedgehogs live til 16, so they never get to have sex.
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Old 09-16-2007, 08:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gauchecritic
A hedgehogs heartrate is something like 320 bpm so hedgehog years equate to about 4.5:1. So if life expectancy of humans is 75 then hedgehogs live til 16, so they never get to have sex.
Which would mean that there aren't hedgehogs at all on Literotica, right? (can't have sex, can't have more hedgehogs.) Which makes them mystical creatures. Which makes them fair game for sex acts on Literotica, I believe.

Would it be the same for gerbils, I wonder(?)
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:05 PM   #17
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What about THIS "Hedgehog?"

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Old 09-16-2007, 09:12 PM   #18
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Too funny, Irezumi

You know, I remember a story in the Incest category, something about a girl who had just turned eighteen, had a kid but wouldn't say who the father was. In the story, she and her father are in church with her baby. Long story short, the girl reveals that the father of her baby is her uncle (the father's brother), and then proceeds to have sex with her father, there in the church, with the baby watching.

Okay, "ew" factor aside, the story seemed to bend a few of Lit's rules. For one, the girl was obviously seventeen when she did the uncle, for another, there was a definite minor present, watching the sex.

Yet it was still posted.

Damn if I can't remember the title.
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:32 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenny_Jackson
As far as lit is concerned, children are born without knowlege or genitals. On their 18th birthday suddenly their genitals spring forth and they become fully cognizant of everything concerning sex as if by magic.

That is my understanding of the rules of this site.
Actually, that's not quite it. You can imply that your 18 year old is not a virgin and that they made whoopie while in high school, or even lost their virginity to an older man/woman, even a family member...you just can't have any scenes that show that sex.

There are tons of stories on Lit where character talks about being sexually abused as a child, or discovering their sexuality the minute puberty kicked in. Lit allows authors to acknowledge that genitalia exists and gets used before the age of 18. What it doesn't allow is for authors to SHOW that under-18 genitalia being used.
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3113
Actually, that's not quite it. You can imply that your 18 year old is not a virgin and that they made whoopie while in high school, or even lost their virginity to an older man/woman, even a family member...you just can't have any scenes that show that sex.

There are tons of stories on Lit where character talks about being sexually abused as a child, or discovering their sexuality the minute puberty kicked in. Lit allows authors to acknowledge that genitalia exists and gets used before the age of 18. What it doesn't allow is for authors to SHOW that under-18 genitalia being used.
I'm not so sure about that. One of my stories was initially rejected because I referred to the two main characters, both recently 18, as having, at the least, seen each other naked the previous summer (when they were both 17). The reason for the rejection was clear: there was an 'implication of sex between minors.'

I made only a minor change, and the story was accepted. But nowhere in the original story did I explicitly indicate that the characters had had sex while they were minors.
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:38 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa Denton
Does that include hedgehogs?

I'm not sure about "straight sex," but as all good Discworld fans know, the hedgehog can never be buggered at all.

(I used to have half a dozen verses for that song I'd scribbled down, but alas, I have lost them. I have to settle for "The Good Ship Venus" now.)
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:47 PM   #22
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Okay, here's the story I was talking about, in case anyone's interested. Even if you don't care for the subject matter, you might find it interesting that this story was posted. Technically, there is no explicit sex between minors. But many might contend that the presence of an infant in the story could be construed as child abuse.

Just sayin'.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/sh...y.php?id=30316

Keep in mind that I am not attacking the author. I have no wish to begin a witchhunt. But, considering the nature of this thread, I thought it might be interesting to get some perspective and opinions.
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:48 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slyc_willie
I made only a minor change, and the story was accepted. But nowhere in the original story did I explicitly indicate that the characters had had sex while they were minors.
If you'd been more vague, you might have managed it. I have a guy in one story remembering being a teen and watching the girl next door undress. The two of them aren't naked together, but there is voyeurism going on and near nudity on the girl's part. And I've seen other stories where new 18 year olds talk about having "experience" with sex--obviously having had it before, but they don't say who or when they got this experience.

It's all in how vague you make it. I don't know what you wrote...or what category it was in, come to that (it makes a difference!), but clearly, to someone editing the stories on that day, you were a little to specific for comfort.

I won't argue that it's not a fine line to walk or that there's always a rhyme or reason as to what one writer can get away with and another can't, but honestly, Lit does not insist that every character be ignorant of sex and lacking genitalia until their 18th birthday. The rules are by no means that ridiculous...Lit just insists that the story be very, very, very discreet about the 18 year old's prior experiences.
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Old 09-16-2007, 10:11 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slyc_willie
I'm not so sure about that. One of my stories was initially rejected because I referred to the two main characters, both recently 18, as having, at the least, seen each other naked the previous summer (when they were both 17). The reason for the rejection was clear: there was an 'implication of sex between minors.'

I made only a minor change, and the story was accepted. But nowhere in the original story did I explicitly indicate that the characters had had sex while they were minors.
It's all hit or miss in the submissions. One of mine, which went through without question, started with a show of (nude eyeballing) interest between an older (older, not old) man and a 17-year-old that was completed on the latter's 18th birthday.
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Old 09-16-2007, 10:35 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sr71plt
It's all hit or miss in the submissions. One of mine, which went through without question, started with a show of (nude eyeballing) interest between an older (older, not old) man and a 17-year-old that was completed on the latter's 18th birthday.
I also recall a story about Hayden Panet...pan...the girl who's that cheerleader on Heroes, where it was written like a week before she turned 18. When I read it she was 18...
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