Exactly why can't a Dom have a collar?

It's weird, but I've had so many people in the last couple of days online remark about a particular image of me wearing a collar. One friend just happend to notice and made the comment along the lines of: "Craig, what's with the collar? You some sorta slave or something?"

Needless to say I lost it on him completely. I mean, just because I have a collar on, how does that automatically signify that I belong to someone else as opposed to belong WITH someone, or just wearing it for my own self-gratification? If a person protrays a submissive personality or slave-like tendencies, one could easily figure out that the collar is meant to signify they are owned. But what about a person with an obviously Dominant personality? Why would the presence of a collar create confusion?

Truth be told, I've met quite a few experienced Doms who wear their own distinct collars and they have had the same comments made. Is this a natural assumption on the part of the ill-informed or am I and several others I know breaking some sort of recognized convention?

Go on with your bad self, collar boy.

Wear it and be happy!

Fer crissakes, that's kinda like asking a single person why they're wearing a ring. "What's with the ring? You're not married."

Whatever floats your boat. The first thought in my head would be "submissive" Just as a ring on the left hand would be "married"

WriterDom said:

Whatever floats your boat. The first thought in my head would be "submissive" Just as a ring on the left hand would be "married"

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Do you judge books by covers, too?

Having been a high school teacher and having many goth students, I wouldn't necessarily view it that way. But I think for many people who have maybe just enough knowledge about BDSM to be dangerous, a collar might signify that. Personally, I think if you want to wear a collar for whatever reason, you should wear it and not worry too much about what others think.

When I see someone in a collar I wonder, but I dont' assume. Just cause someone's got a collar doesn't mean they're into bdsm, anymore than it means they're a sub.

I've noticed in some circles, a Dom wears the collar when he has no sub and then offers the collar to the sub. Others wear the collar all the time like a wedding ring. Of course, this is more common in the punk bonders.

Perhaps the answer to your question could be put as simply as understanding the commonly held meaning of wearing a collar in the BDSM or D/s community...but we all know I rarely post one-2 line posts...it is my weakness.

Though I have heard of some Doms wearing collars (but only ever seen it in porn site staged pics), I am with WriterDom in that with wedding type band on left hand probably = married and collar around neck of someone looking like they might be into BDSM more than goth or fashion accesssories probably = submissive. I don't see it as judging a book by it's cover as jade suggested WD was doing, because it is well recognised that in our contemporary society there are certain things we wear/do which are meant to symbolise and/or signify a particular cultural or personal status. It doesn't mean it is always so, but the odds are it is. I also think that while it may be cool to do your own thing, start new trends outside the traditional meaning, it is then to be expected people are not going to understand it, nor are they going to draw from it the meaning you have intended simply because it is not a widely acknowledged symbolism in the form you have chosen to adopt.

Seems a lot of the online community is becoming very focused on the idea you can enter BDSM (often only online) and change the symbols, beliefs, titles, practices to suit what an individual wants them to be and expect everyone else to relate and know who and what they are automatically. IMHO that is like someone telling everyone the sky is actually lime green and then being surprised when the general population do not fall in line and spread the word...some things just are, some things are meant to be understood by others to have a particular meaning, and as such lead to easier communication and understanding. If you want new things, invent them, but don't insist on playing with and changing traditionally understood meanings willy nilly and expect it not to be misunderstood, or seen as a form of disrespect or flippant disregard for all that culture stands for.

From my knowledge and understanding, a collar has always been something offered to a submissive/slave by a Dominant, and in contemporary D/s had it's origins in the Leather Community. If accepted, it is meant to symbolise submission to that Dominant by that submissive, often ownership, and a commitment between both to respect each other, and often for the Dominant to undertake the protection and training of the submissive. It also often doubles as a tool used in bondage and restraint. I did a quick search, even entering Dominant's collar as the subject and only came up with articles about submissives accepting collars offered by Dominants/Masters/Mistresses so perhaps I am not the only one who automatically sees it in a BDSM context as meaning the person wearing it is owned and/or submits to another. Here are some I came up with which are interesting:


The Collar
A Collar and It's Meaning
The Collar - Symbolism and Personal Meaning
The Collar
A Collar's Meaning (this one has some excellent tips on etiquette when in public)

Catalina

When we agree I'm pretty sure that's a sign that the biblical apocalypse is imminent

WriterDom said:

When we agree I'm pretty sure that's a sign that the biblical apocalypse is imminent

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LOL, well it is Easter I suppose...and hey, it happens often that we agree, just we both don't post a lot of late. Not to mention, part from being boring, if we agree all the time, people might start to think we are the same person!!

Catalina

People who send out mixed messages should not be surprised at mixed responses to their messages. That is how life goes. As much as I hate the instant pigeon holing people try to do, it is to be expected. Life is what it is and doesn't alter for each individual as we might wish. People try to know us by putting us in safe categories. Now, it's fine if a Dom wants to wear a collar but he should not get upset at the reaction he gets IMO. He choses to do so knowing what it symbolizes to most after all. Hopefully, he, for some reason wants the confusion, assumptions or questioning that these actions will create.

Fury

As others have pointed out, the long standing and accepted tradition is that submissives wear collars, not Dominants.

I have never heard of the practice of a Dominant wearing a collar to show their availibility, then removing it to give to a submissive.

Personally, I've never seen a Dominant with a collar on.

If I were to meet one, at first glance they would be classified as submissive in My mind. If I were to find out they were in fact Dominant, any respect I may have offered that person would be gone. If it were an obvious 'newbie' who did not know the tradition, I would attempt to further their education. If this attempt were rebuffed, not only would respect be nil, they would become a non-entity to Me and those I associate with in the lifestyle.

BeachGurl2 said:

Having been a high school teacher and having many goth students, I wouldn't necessarily view it that way....

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Haha, I've noticed the same thing. When I want to watch arm/shoulder/neck technique in one of my ninth-grade students, I have to ask him to:

1. Take off his jacket.
2. Take off the bondage chain thingers on his shirt.
3. Remove his collar, and that necklace with the padlock.
4. And remove his leather cuffs.

This boy is as sheltered as the day is long, but he sure has one heck of a collection of fetish fashion.

WyoD_S said:

If I were to meet one, at first glance they would be classified as submissive in My mind. If I were to find out they were in fact Dominant, any respect I may have offered that person would be gone. If it were an obvious 'newbie' who did not know the tradition, I would attempt to further their education. If this attempt were rebuffed, not only would respect be nil, they would become a non-entity to Me and those I associate with in the lifestyle.

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And if this person was *not* an "obvious newbie"? Would you still then treat them like dog shit?


It's amazing to me how people will get themselves all in a tizzy over what they insist HAS to be right. It's not a case of someone trying to say the sky is green, it's a case of someone wearing something that:

a) makes him happy, and
b) doesn't harm anyone else.

But because it doesn't fit into some people's view of what *has* to be, it's wrong.

Fuck that noise. What's next, are you gonna try and tell me -my- collar isn't good enough because I bought it myself, for five bucks, at hot topic and it's fuzzy, not leather?

Don't be so damned uptight that you'd actually base a final judgement about someone based off their attire. Yes, Mac will have to deal with the people who assume on first sight. That's his choice, he'll have to make that decision. It's your decision to decide if you're just going to shrug and say "Huh, that's different" and then get to know HIM, or if you're just going to blow him off with a "Dom's don't wear collars, asshole, go learn something before you try to be one of us."

Just because you've never seen it before, doesn't mean it can't exist. Trying opening that mind a little bit.

I'm so fucking sick of people who decide whether you fit in or not based off some stupid fucking clothes.

jadefirefly said:

And if this person was *not* an "obvious newbie"? Would you still then treat them like dog shit?


It's amazing to me how people will get themselves all in a tizzy over what they insist HAS to be right. It's not a case of someone trying to say the sky is green, it's a case of someone wearing something that:

a) makes him happy, and
b) doesn't harm anyone else.

But because it doesn't fit into some people's view of what *has* to be, it's wrong.

Fuck that noise. What's next, are you gonna try and tell me -my- collar isn't good enough because I bought it myself, for five bucks, at hot topic and it's fuzzy, not leather?

Don't be so damned uptight that you'd actually base a final judgement about someone based off their attire. Yes, Mac will have to deal with the people who assume on first sight. That's his choice, he'll have to make that decision. It's your decision to decide if you're just going to shrug and say "Huh, that's different" and then get to know HIM, or if you're just going to blow him off with a "Dom's don't wear collars, asshole, go learn something before you try to be one of us."

Just because you've never seen it before, doesn't mean it can't exist. Trying opening that mind a little bit.

I'm so fucking sick of people who decide whether you fit in or not based off some stupid fucking clothes.

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I think you have missed the point jade. Wearing a collar in this community symbolises something very important and meaningful, O'Mac got upset because people made an assumption based on that tradition and understanding. It is all very find to change things, but we are not mind readers, nor does it always translate to happy communication. for instance, if you were looking for a Dominant, and you met someone who told you for weeks they were a Dominant, then once you developed some sort of bond or liking for them they explained to you that to them being a Dominant is submitting to someone else, would you as a submissive be scratching your head and wondering where that came from? I guarantee you would. Similarly they might tell you they believe in safewords then in a session when you have had plenty of what you can take and use a safeword, they tell you believing in them and stpping when you use it do not mean the same thing to them..it is an understood practice within this community which basically helps things work. There is a reason for why there are symbols and understood meanings in the world we live in, it translates to better communication. If you want to be super radical and begin trying to turn it all upside down so only your select group understands it (likely after you explain to them the game you are playing), don't be surprised if the majority just walk in another direction. It is not about treating anyone badly, or being right, but is about operating on some level that those around you might relate to.

Catalina

jadefirefly said:

And if this person was *not* an "obvious newbie"? Would you still then treat them like dog shit?

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If ignoring someone who is oblivious to long standing tradition is treating them like 'dog shit', then yes. If and when that person wakes up and behaves properly, I'd be more than happy to reevaluate my perception and decide if they are someone I would be interested in getting to know.

jadefirefly said:

It's amazing to me how people will get themselves all in a tizzy over what they insist HAS to be right. It's not a case of someone trying to say the sky is green, it's a case of someone wearing something that:

a) makes him happy, and
b) doesn't harm anyone else.

But because it doesn't fit into some people's view of what *has* to be, it's wrong.

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Yes, it is wrong.

Yes, it harms others. It harms those who are trying to learn the proper way to live the lifestyle. No, not My version of what is proper, rather what is the accepted norm across the board with those who are serious about this lifestyle, as opposed to those who think it's some kind of game.

jadefirefly said:

Fuck that noise. What's next, are you gonna try and tell me -my- collar isn't good enough because I bought it myself, for five bucks, at hot topic and it's fuzzy, not leather?

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If your collar makes you happy, and is accepted by your Dominant, more power to you. Makes no difference to Me if it is fuzzy or leather.

jadefirefly said:

Don't be so damned uptight that you'd actually base a final judgement about someone based off their attire. Yes, Mac will have to deal with the people who assume on first sight. That's his choice, he'll have to make that decision. It's your decision to decide if you're just going to shrug and say "Huh, that's different" and then get to know HIM, or if you're just going to blow him off with a "Dom's don't wear collars, asshole, go learn something before you try to be one of us."

Just because you've never seen it before, doesn't mean it can't exist. Trying opening that mind a little bit.

jadefirefly said:

I'm so fucking sick of people who decide whether you fit in or not based off some stupid fucking clothes.

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I have a number of very good friends who are goth, their attire doesn't effect My perception of them one way or the other. A few of them are also involved in the lifestyle, the difference is they know and respect what is acceptable and what is not. A Dominant wearing a collar is not acceptable, they know it, accept that, and don't do it.

jadefirefly said:

I'm so fucking sick of people who decide whether you fit in or not based off some stupid fucking clothes.

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I am sick of people not respecting traditions that are widely accepted and practiced. A collar has significance. A collar is a symbol of submission and ownership. There are many who stive to wear a collar, in the true sense, and never reach that goal. There are many who strive to give a collar, in the true sense, and never reach that goal.

Personally, I am insulted by the people who are diluting the meaning of a collar. Wearing it as a 'fashion statement', or to 'be different', takes away from what a collar really stands for. Not so much for those of us who know what it should mean, but for those who are newer and have not learned what a collar truly signifies.

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You're going beyond what he is, Catalina. You're making it sound as if, by wearing his collar, he *calls* himself a Dominant but is really a switch, except on Tuesdays when he only screws cats.

He is a Dominant who wears a collar. My problem is not with the people who see the initial article and make an initial assumption. My problem is with the people who think he is *less* a member of this community for it. Or that he is misinformed or an idiot because of it.

He knows what he is doing, he wears it because he wants to, and he knows exactly what a Dominant IS. He isn't trying to change what one is, or what one does. He is simply choosing to wear what he wants to wear.

How is this any different than a sub who is owned but doesn't wear a collar? Or a sub who isn't owned but does wear a collar?

Making an initial assumption about a person based off their attire, personal apperance or attitude is something we are all guilty of. Holding to that assumption when given evidence to the contrary is just our refusing to admit we are wrong.

He isn't changing the meaning of the word. He's simply choosing his own personal attire. Don't make it sound as if he's trying to revolutionize the definition of what he is and force us all to comply with it.

Well, c'mon, it's a symbol.

You must have known that.

It's like walking into a Nazi ralley wearing a swastika and saying "What, what do you mean? It has special meaning to me! To me it means peace and harmony!"

With all of the above said, I'll be bowing out of this thread now.

Thank you all for listening, or not, as your choice may have been. When I begin to repeat myself, well, repeatedly... either my points are not being heard, or they are being ignored, or I am barking up a brick wall.

Either way, none of the above appeal to me, so I'm out.

WyoD_S said:

I am sick of people not respecting traditions that are widely accepted and practiced. A collar has significance. A collar is a symbol of submission and ownership. There are many who stive to wear a collar, in the true sense, and never reach that goal. There are many who strive to give a collar, in the true sense, and never reach that goal.

Personally, I am insulted by the people who are diluting the meaning of a collar. Wearing it as a 'fashion statement', or to 'be different', takes away from what a collar really stands for. Not so much for those of us who know what it should mean, but for those who are newer and have not learned what a collar truly signifies.

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Have to agree. It is something I worked toward, and it is something which I question on a daily basis as to whether I honour in a way it is intended...that is not a game, nor is it something I would have put around my own neck just to feel the part. Feeling the part includes more than the visual wearing of a collar. As to those who are not in the commun ity and wear collars...that is fairly standard and usually easy to pick and acept as a fashion statement. My own daughter is goth and has a collection of them she wears beautifully, but she also is into D/s and does not confuse the wearing of one as a fashion statement with wearing it as a symbol of D/s.

Personally I am considered a very unconventional person in many ways, and one who has challenged established rules and practices on many levels, but I also do not do it in a way where it seems to imitate and imply one thing while meaning something totoally different based on my very personal space in my head.

Catalina

catalina_francisco said:

Have to agree. It is something I worked toward, and it is something which I question on a daily basis as to whether I honour in a way it is intended...that is not a game, nor is it something I would have put around my own neck just to feel the part. Feeling the part includes more than the visual wearing of a collar. As to those who are not in the commun ity and wear collars...that is fairly standard and usually easy to pick and acept as a fashion statement. My own daughter is goth and has a collection of them she wears beautifully, but she also is into D/s and does not confuse the wearing of one as a fashion statement with wearing it as a symbol of D/s.

Personally I am considered a very unconventional person in many ways, and one who has challenged established rules and practices on many levels, but I also do not do it in a way where it seems to imitate and imply one thing while meaning something totoally different based on my very personal space in my head.

Catalina

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Good to see I am not alone.

jadefirefly said:

You're going beyond what he is, Catalina. You're making it sound as if, by wearing his collar, he *calls* himself a Dominant but is really a switch, except on Tuesdays when he only screws cats.

He is a Dominant who wears a collar. My problem is not with the people who see the initial article and make an initial assumption. My problem is with the people who think he is *less* a member of this community for it. Or that he is misinformed or an idiot because of it.

He knows what he is doing, he wears it because he wants to, and he knows exactly what a Dominant IS. He isn't trying to change what one is, or what one does. He is simply choosing to wear what he wants to wear.

How is this any different than a sub who is owned but doesn't wear a collar? Or a sub who isn't owned but does wear a collar?

Making an initial assumption about a person based off their attire, personal apperance or attitude is something we are all guilty of. Holding to that assumption when given evidence to the contrary is just our refusing to admit we are wrong.

He isn't changing the meaning of the word. He's simply choosing his own personal attire. Don't make it sound as if he's trying to revolutionize the definition of what he is and force us all to comply with it.

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Jade, no-one has abused you or used foul language on you, just pointed out the obvious...if you have to retaliate by being rude and stomping off, perhaps you need yourself to look at accepting other people's P'sOV as you have accused us of being incorrect in not doing. Personally I am not ovgerawed by a sub who wears a collar when they are not owned or in a relationship, but hey, if it helps their fantasies and that is what they want, go for it. As to O'Mac wearing it, the point is that he is upset people are mistaking its meaning and the reason they are is because it has a specific meaning which is not the one he wants to appoint to it...if he wants to adorn his neck with one, fine, but don't expect the rest of the community to change the meaning to suit his whim. What I want to know is why does he want to wear one when he knows the meaning of it...could there be some confusion happening here?

Catalina

O'Mac said:

It's weird, but I've had so many people in the last couple of days online remark about a particular image of me wearing a collar. One friend just happend to notice and made the comment along the lines of: "Craig, what's with the collar? You some sorta slave or something?"

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Collar hasn't indicated anything alone in my experience. Now add a chain/leash and that (in my opinion) would be different.