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Old 07-17-2003, 12:58 AM   #1
KillerMuffin
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Post Discussion: Feedback and review of stories that you have posted at Literotica!

{{NOTE FROM MODERATOR [PURE], 2-05-05: THIS IS INFORMATION ABOUT HOW THE FORUM WAS *FORMERLY* RUN, POSTED BY THE FORMER MODERATOR, KILLER MUFFIN.
THERE IS SOME VALUABLE MATERIAL ABOUT WRITING AND CRITIQUING POSTED BY KILLER M AND OTHERS. SO THE THREAD---THIS EARLY PORTION, TO 3-30-04, MIDDLE P. 2. OF THE PARENT THREAD WILL STAND AS AN ARCHIVE, CLOSED.}}



Hi, I'm Muffin, moderator of the SDC! If you have any questions, feel free to PM me by pressing the (PM) button below this or any other post I make!

Getting Your Story Into a Discussion

1) In this thread, post the title and a link to a single story (not your memberpage) that you want reviewed and any concerns you want to see addressed by reviewers.
2) Review at least two other discussions. Please give the quality feedback that you would like to recieve.
3) PM the moderator, me, with the names of the authors you have reviewed and the title of the story you volunteered. This way you will have your work reviewed in a timely fashion and I won't make a mistake.

The Rules

We're very strict about which stories can be discussed here. There are a few rules, but they're not difficult to follow. For our purposes, a story will be defined as a work in any of the non-poem categories (except extreme) in a single link. If your story has more than one link--that is chapterized--only one story link will be provided in the discussion.

1) The story must be posted at Literotica.
2) You must be the author.
3) You may volunteer your story for discussion at any time, first come first serve. Please do so in this thread.
4) This is important. In order for your story to make it into discussion you must make an effort to participate in no less than two other discussions.
5) There is no limit to the stories that you may volunteer for discussion, however before you can volunteer another story your previous story must be discussed first.
6) You will have no control over the feedback that you receive.
7) If you want feedback on an unpublished draft of your story, please see the Workshop thread in the forum.
8) You may not post your own Discussion threads. These threads will be moved to the Story Feedback Forum.

Participating in a Discussion

An effort to participate is defined as thoughtful feedback that can provide some insight into the craft of writing or into the story being discussed. This is not as difficult as it sounds, it merely requires that you answer two questions: 1) What did I like about this story? and 2) What did I not like about this story? Additionally, guided discussion questions will be provided with each new discussion.

What is not allowed

The Literotica Bulletin Board is a very large place. Please direct general questions, general comments, personal ads, poetry, etc. to the appropriate forum. Any thread that does not belong here will be moved to the appropriate forum for you. This forum is reserved for guided story discussion.

Additionally, we follow the Literotica Discussion Forum Rules found in the Forum Guidlines at the bottom of every forum page.

Thank you for your cooperation.

How to Give a Critique You Can Feel Good About

From Mickie


This is one of the best explanations I found on how to review someone else's work. I found it at the Del Rey workshop, and this is the pertinent information...

How do I write a basic review?

If you are at a loss, we suggest the following model for critiques, based on a technique used by Maureen McHugh when she teaches at places like Clarion. Reviewers should write at least four sentences, one on each of the following areas:

A one-sentence summary of the submission. This lets the writer know whether or not the reviewer got the main point of the story or chapter.
Point out one good thing about the submission. Be specific. Refer to the writing, setting, dialogue, characters, or plot.
Mention one thing in the submission that you didn't like. Again, be specific.
Ask one question or make one suggestion for improvement.
This method helps guarantee balanced reviews and reminds reviewers to include something positive and something helpful.
This is not the only method or model. Different reviewers have different critiquing strengths.

Any review that provides specific, helpful feedback to the writer is a good start.

What if I can't find anything wrong with a submission?

Uh...try harder.

Even the most successful professional writers send their stories out for critique to improve their writing. If you can't find anything in a submission to improve it, then go steal a Hugo award and start engraving the submission's title on it at once.

How do I critique a writer who's better than I am?

Develop your ability to look at a submission as a reader, not a writer. Don't compare your skills to those of the author, but ask yourself, if you read this in a magazine, what would your reaction be? Which places slow you down? Which parts interested you the most? Learn to read critically.

What if I don't want to hurt someone's feelings by saying something negative?

Your compassion commends you. However...

If you don't tell writers where they can improve, they'll never get any better. By following the model we suggested above, you will always give a balanced review, with positives as well as negatives.

Several workshop members also suggest a light touch. Brie writes: "HUMOR. It's a way to get past defensiveness. Larry West, for example, may absolutely rip my stories apart at the seams, but i'm generally too busy giggling to get huffy."


What if the writing is so awful I can't find anything positive to say?

First, remember that we were all beginners once.

Second, don't try to correct everything. Pick out one specific area--grammar, dialogue, setting--and give the writer one piece of advice, one tool, that he or she can use immediately. The next time you see a submission by that writer, you'll be able to find one positive thing to say!


How can I get more reviews of my submission?

You mean aside from bribes?

The easiest method is to give more reviews. Pay attention to writers who do reviews, and then critique their work.


I really can't add anything to that, to tell the truth. However, if you can't do exactly what's in the model, then do the best you can. No one is grading here, so just tell us what you think!

- Mickie

From Judo

Positive Summary: You introduce a wonderful little model, properly credited, for reviewing almost anything, including reading someone else's writing.

Negative: Then, you follow up the little model with a page-and-a-half of FAQs' text indistinguishable from the model.

Humor: It's a lot to read for instructions (especially if you're the type who likes to throw them away). Perhaps a little color coding would help identify the sub-sections and not make the instructions seem so long.

- Judo

From Angeline

KM, hope you don't mind me barging into your thread, but as a former English teacher and an editor who, for years, has given author feedback pretty much daily, I wanted to make the following point.

There is a difference between subjective and objective feedback. The former is marginally interesting, but won't help the author write a better story and, at worst, is simply browbeating. Objective feedback, on the other hand, is specific, uses examples to clarify, and may even offer suggestions for improvement. This is what authors need.

Subjective Examples:

I didn't like this story.

The main character doesn't work.

This isn't a story.


Ok, reviewer. Great! That tells me um your opinion, but nothing about my story.


Objective Examples:

I didn't like this story because there are so many problems with grammar and punctuation, I was unable to enjoy. For example, in the following paragraph, I have noted problems with subject-verb agreement and comma usage. You can fix this by reading [add resource link here] or by having one of the onsite editors review your story.

Here is the rewritten paragraph with the errors corrected.

2. I don't think your main character works because her behavior is inconsistent. For example in paragraph 7 Mathilde describes herself as "shy," someone who "always stays in the background." Then, in paragraph 14, she no sooner arrives at Club Med than she runs in the bar and gives all the men lap dances.

Here are some suggestions to clarify her why she changed.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

You get the idea. If you need to see an example of a good objective review, look an one done by JUDO. She's thorough, specific, and doesn't get personal about it..

Last edited by Pure : 07-12-2008 at 10:05 PM.
 

Old 07-17-2003, 01:00 AM   #2
KillerMuffin
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Originally posted by Michaelwiseman

Hello,

New dude here.

I got a story to volunteer. "Telling her the Truth" to be found in the non-erotic section and "Revelations of the Heart", a non-erotic poem.
Feel free to read "Uncontrollable Urges",
an erotic porm.

I think a lot of those early stories and poems but I am looking for feedback.
 

Old 07-17-2003, 01:01 AM   #3
KillerMuffin
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Originally posted by Alex756

OK *gulp*

I've thought long and hard about throwing this onto this board.

If its not appropriate to throw this one up here, I perfectly understand.

And presenting the sotry that took nearly 2 weeks for the decision to be made, does it stay or does it go to extreme. It was posted to Lit main, so *shrug* guess its OK on that account.

It is in the non-concent catagory though. However, its not a rape fantasy.

Its also one of my rare attempts at writing in the first person. I orginally writote it as an I and You story, that throws it kinda into that second person thing but it just .. well honestly it made me sick that way. So, it ended up in its currant for as I, He.

*laughs* sorry I seem to be gathering my courage by typing alot before putting up the link.

Presenting:
Sometimes They Fall hard

http://www.literotica.com:81/stories...y.php?id=85867

PS, although it seems to have some D/s stuff going, it really isn't that, its just kinda more a fucked up thing than a D/s thing.

My main concerns are character believability. My reactions from people who had read it seem to be utter confusion from men and total understanding from women ... soo ... shesh I'm not sure.

I'm also very uncertain about the pacing. In truth my normal method of pacing a story doesn't work on this once, since I have never been able to read it aloud from start to finish.

This is my permission for this story to be torn apart and left to slowly bleed on the sacrificial alter of improvement.

alex756
 

Old 07-17-2003, 01:02 AM   #4
KillerMuffin
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Originally posted by Rumple Foreskin

Greetings,

My most recent assault on good taste and the English language is, "A Special Photo." This story is a definite change of pace for the old pornographer as indicated by its residing in the Romance category at:

http://www.literotica.com/stories/sh...y.php?id=99228

All comments, whether brickbats or bouquets, will be appreciated. I'd particularly like your thoughts on the opening paragraphs and the use of flashback.

Rumple Foreskin
 

Old 07-17-2003, 01:07 AM   #5
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Please post your reviews in the threads dedicated to the individual authors found in the main body of the forum. Please don't post your reviews in this thread. This thread is a sign-up and rule thread only.

Thanks for your cooperation!
 

Old 07-24-2003, 08:20 AM   #6
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Hi...

I've finally worked up enough courage to volunteer a story for discussion (as a newbie to this forum, I hope I haven't messed up any rules/ettiquette here..!)

The story is "Truth or Dare" in the BDSM category - I found this much more difficult to write than usual, so I'm very interested in other's opinions on how it turned out.

Story link: http://www.literotica.com/stories/sh...y.php?id=99467

My queries are as follows -

1) The length. Too long? Did it flow well/was the pacing okay, or did you grow bored/stop reading at any point? If so, where were the places where you began to drift off?

2) I worried in the early paragraphs there was too much 'set up', ie. too much past tense before it got to the current action/present tense. Yet I couldn't find a way around it. Do you agree or disagree? Did it take too long to get to get to the sex/action?

3) Elspeth's character - is the switch she makes at the end too sudden/brutal? I struggled writing the end section most of all and was concerned Elspeth's character became lost in a too sudden adoption of the submissive role. I guess I'm wondering if her journey seems natural/realistic to you?

4) Who do you feel is really in control here? Do you feel that Elspeth is as in control of events as Davy is, or does she totally lose all control completely? Do you get the impression at the end that this is still a temporary game where such roles will be forgotten by morning (or whenever), or that more premament, ongoing power/control relationships were established?

5) Most importantly - is it sexy???!!

Thanks in advance for any feedback on these questions, or anything which struck you at all - I tossed and turned about this one for a long while, so anything you can give me is definitely appreciated!

Ta... Lily
 

Old 07-28-2003, 05:51 PM   #7
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Originally posted by Erotic Author

I would like to submit my story for discussion.

It is in the non-consent category.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/sh....php?id=100471

1. Was the story too short?

2. Did it come across as erotic or not at all?

3. What major problems does it have?

4. Can I just jump into the discussions already going on for
other stories?
 

Old 08-05-2003, 03:34 PM   #8
Rumple Foreskin
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Talking SMILE AND SAY, SHOVE-IT!

Greetings,

My most recent assault on good taste and the English language is, "A Special Photo." This story is a definite change of pace for the old pornographer as indicated by its residing in the Romance category at:

http://www.literotica.com/stories/s...ry.php?id=99228

All comments, whether brickbats or bouquets, will be appreciated. I'd particularly like your thoughts on the opening paragraphs and the use of flashback.

Rumple Foreskin
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Don't take life so serious, son-it ain't no how permanent. - WALT KELLY

COLLY: ...only needs a hayseed and gun to get a part in any low class American movie that needs a small town idiot sheriff --- ABS: I still love him like an old dog that lies on the floor and farts --- VELLA: RumpleForeskin...was instrumental in saving the world --- KILLER MUFFIN: You know how to write smut --- ENGLISH LADY: I luv Rumple --- BLACK TULIP: worshipping the Rev. R. Foreskin.

Rumple's Reading Rubbish
 

Old 08-05-2003, 10:06 PM   #9
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Evening all,

I've posted a new story, but unfortunately my public don't appear too happy with this effort. I'd appreciate some help on figuring out why and how I can change it in the edit before I even think about writing the next part.

WARNING: This is Buffy the Vampire Slayer fanfic. I would greatly appreciate your help even if you don't know the show at all, but this is definitely fanfic, unlike Seducing Dawn and there will be bits that you don't get. Apologies in advance.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/sh....php?id=100975

I will be making a substantial edit of this story based partly on your recommendations. No pressure.

The only specific question I have really is whether you think the sex scenes are too bitty? If so would you have preferred me to focus on just one coupling rather than swap between, or have more on everything?

Thanks

The Earl
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Old 08-08-2003, 01:47 PM   #10
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Ok, now I get to ask for some feedback (though I will continue to offer my lame efforts for at least a few more stories or until a crowd assembles with pitchforks and torches.) This is not my first story, but I have only written a few.

Though the story is in four segments it's less than 10k words, and I don't want to take up a lot of space and time in this group reviewing each chapter separately. (Unless you want to). Here are the links:

"They Change the Letters"
http://www.literotica.com/stories/sh....php?id=102148
http://www.literotica.com/stories/sh....php?id=102820
http://www.literotica.com/stories/sh....php?id=103673
http://www.literotica.com/stories/sh....php?id=103853

It was written very quick and dirty, with only 1 read through edit pass. There is probably a lot of nitty gramatical stuff, so don't feel compelled to undertake the tedium of identifying each, but please point out anything that reaches out and pokes you in the eye. Mostly general criticism and specific areas of trouble.

Basic concept of the story: what if those magazine letters are changed by the editors to make them more erotic but their mods fall short of reality. From there, the story kind of went its own way.

1. How do you rate the concept & delivery?

2. I'm very uncomfortable with the multi-chapter format, but I was in a hurry. Please rate the segmentation of the story and its effect on readability/continuity and enjoyment.

3. I'm still pretty wet behind the ears on this sex scene writing, please point out where it's not working. (Especially how to more effectively intersperse action and words).

4. Tell me the worst things you possibly can think of about the story, pull no punches. Please limit these to no more than 36.

5. If you still have time, can you explain the effect of Vatican II on the geopolitical relations of North African nations and the middle east, provide diagrams where appropriate. At some point please tell me what the heck Vatican II was.

Many thanks in advance,
OC

Ten thousand writers out of work and everybody wants to be a comedian...
 

Old 08-15-2003, 07:57 AM   #11
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"Love on the Levee," http://www.literotica.com/stories/sh....php?id=104055 is, to the best of my knowledge, the first story to go through a SDC pre-posting Workshop then get posted and offered up for slicing and dicing on the SDC Discussion altar. This particular story is a sequel to my first Romance category post, "Moonlight & Revelation."

Rumple Foreskin
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Don't take life so serious, son-it ain't no how permanent. - WALT KELLY

COLLY: ...only needs a hayseed and gun to get a part in any low class American movie that needs a small town idiot sheriff --- ABS: I still love him like an old dog that lies on the floor and farts --- VELLA: RumpleForeskin...was instrumental in saving the world --- KILLER MUFFIN: You know how to write smut --- ENGLISH LADY: I luv Rumple --- BLACK TULIP: worshipping the Rev. R. Foreskin.

Rumple's Reading Rubbish
 

Old 09-28-2003, 03:17 PM   #12
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Yello.
Here is The End of the Ice Age, an erotic romantic story set some 50 years into the future, so I guess it could also count as science fiction.

*Watch out, it's pretty long, and only a bit of nastiness in the last half. Love looong build-ups.
* I've already spotted a handful of typos that my spell checker and manual editing missed. No need to point them out. I got them covered. (I hope)

Apart from your general impressions and nitpicking there are a few things I'd like to get your opinion on:

1. I've taken some liberties with traditional writitng structure and grammar to give some passagaes what I (from my high horses ) would like to think of as a more poetic flow. Did it work, did I flunk, or did I just overdo it?

2. Did the story "work"? Were there logical flaws in the plot, of in the "technical" details, like the time aspects or other such things that I, after staring myself blind at it, can't spot?

3. As a guy, the description if certain female aspects were kind of difficult. Told from a woman's point of view you get to know her quite intimately.

4. There is not a "cock" or "cunt" in sight. Did this make the grunting session too lame, or did the somewhat elaborate workarounds do the job?

Thanks for your time.

/Ice - not from the Ice Age
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Come Fly With Me (sci-fi) Spree 12345678910
Stories and poems
 

Old 01-07-2004, 12:33 AM   #13
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Dear Icing,

I realize this post is old now that i read your story. But i had to comment on it. i was very stunned at how well it kept my attention. The concept is something that we have heard about but the being awake part really gave this story an edge. i could picture your story two ways. One she was in cryro program but also it hit me as a woman who had no libido and suddenly wakens from and Ice age. smiles. Anyway i think this story could actually be made into an entire book. You should consider it. You could start at the beginning where she is diagnosed with cancer and develop the characters then the days the "boy" was with her and the things you said in the short version. Honestly would make a great book. As for typos hey we are all human and it happens.

The cunt and cock part............didn't need it. Didn't even need the fuck me fuck me it flowed so well and it was sensual sexy and a lovely ending. Please let me know if you do decide to try a novel would love to read it.

Always
niyah2

Him

Him2
 

Old 01-07-2004, 01:20 AM   #14
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Wondering

Am wondering if there are Any that are interested in restarting this thread and discussing stories? or is it just one that is going to fizzle away?

niyah2
 

Old 01-11-2004, 12:49 AM   #15
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New stuff

This is my newest and frankly the longest story that I have written. Please review and critique, as only my loyal little fans are sending me feedback anymore

I need agressive assesment, if you would please.

Genre - Sci/fi-fantasy, chapter 5 of Champions of Terra

http://www.literotica.com/stories/sh....php?id=123407
 

Old 01-11-2004, 02:31 AM   #16
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shimmy

shimmy,

I sent you private feed back and here I will say I think the length was good. The story had some twists and turns and kept me interested. I think you should continue with these two characters a little bit if you can fit them in the next part.

Take care and keep writing

niyah2My stories
 

Old 01-13-2004, 02:05 AM   #17
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SouthSky Eyes

DearSSE,

Thank You so much for reading my story Him. Part 2 is now out as I told you in email. Also part three has been written. You can post your comments here if You want from the email but know that I took them to my thinking cap and am going to do the revisions you suggested. I am waiting for your story that you said would be posted here soon. I have read your poem and liked it. I could hear the song in my head as I did. I hope you will continue to read and write here.

niyah2

My Stories and Poems

Also my stories and poems

I hope We keep this thread going it is great.
 

Old 01-14-2004, 03:57 PM   #18
SouthSkyEyes
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Niyah2 - your "Him" and a request

Niyah2 ...

You are most welcome.

Again, really enjoyed the read. So many of the short simple phrases you weave into your stories (sa "suckled and bitten") impact deeply, in a primal visceral way, stirring me, haunting me, will haunt me for a long time.

I'll read Him2 later today and offer my feedback, and look forward to reading your next piece.

In terms of my stories ... arrrrrrgh!!!!!!
After waiting, a week, I received notice today my stories must be revised, to align with the dialogue formatting guidelines expected on Literotica. It happens these two stories are not dialogue driven.

But rules are for our own good, in support of quality and good taste for all, I reminded myself, as I rummaged through the pics recently posted on a Literotica photo thread titled, more or less, "let me see you masturbating while surfing for porn." (Please, if you would, at least pretend to have no curiosity as to why I am aware such a thread exists).

So I changed the two stories, resubmitted them and now wait, not so patiently, anxious as all heck, actually. If I don't get feedback from someone soon I might .... well who knows, but hopefully my wife will be appreciative.

So Niyah2, if you don't mind (pleading), I'd welcome your brief response to "Shopping for that Special Gift," which I'll Email to you, and to anyone else reading this message who asks for a copy.

Sincerely,

SouthSkyEyes
 

Old 01-14-2004, 04:04 PM   #19
Shoshisexy
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Question Waiting...

Southskyeyes...

I Have been waiting over 10 days for any response at all to my atest submission, a collaboration. I know they got it as six people have read it. *sighs* Oh well. I will email them if it makes it to two weeks.

As for me, I would definitely like a copy of yours, but will send my email in a pm.

Shimmy: I will read yours tonight as soon as I have time as I need to get some stuff done.

Niyah2: Same goes.

I love reading and critiquing, so I understand the need for it. My first post here is Office Welcome.

http://www.literotica.com:81/stories....php?id=122357

Feel free to wait until I have read y'all's yo critique mine. I do appreciate good critiquing, though and am hoping to publish in paper, so I need all the help I can get. Thank you all!
 

Old 01-15-2004, 05:27 AM   #20
Shoshisexy
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YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well. I canot complain anymore as my second story has been posted!!!!!! It is a collaboration and as such has a different voice than the first.

I am just so thrilled!

I will have the link later after I read all of y'all's. I am sorry I have not responded as fast as I said I would. I had much to do tonight and little time on the computer. I will try tomorrow. I am deeply apologetic to you all!

Shoshana
 

Old 01-15-2004, 11:14 PM   #21
Shoshisexy
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Shimmy....

I sincerely apologize for not getting back to you sooner as my life has pretty much gone to hell in a handbasket. But that is not your concern.

As to the story. Was hard for me, joining it mid-story sort-of, but not that bad. Your female character is at once devious and mischevious. I like her. She has some inconsistencies, but that just make her more real. I like her interactions with the l'nal(?) and with your male character. She has a backbone and goes out and gets what she wants. I like a strong female character. I also like the fact that she never loses any of that femininity.

The male character...imperious and arrogant, as a prince should be. I learned less about him in this segment. You were more focused on the female character, so he seems a bit shallow until the end. When you describe a bit of their history together, I understand and almost feel the sparks coming from both of them.

The sex scene was well-played, with her not wanting it slow and easy. The character you wrote would want it all.

All in all...a good read and fun to boot.
 

Old 01-15-2004, 11:20 PM   #22
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Niyah

Once again, I apologize for not getting back to you sooner.

I also deeply apologize for not reading your stories. They are in a genre that I do not find titilating and I feel I would make an unfair assessment.

I am sure you are a good write, though and encourage you to continue and maybe branch out a bit. I am trying to myself.

Good luck!

As for me...my next story has finally arrived and now that I have gotten back to all of you, I feel I might post it here.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/sh....php?id=123433

Thank you all for your feedback!
 

Old 03-05-2004, 09:55 AM   #23
Rumple Foreskin
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KillerMuffin,

"Burying Uncle Hiram's Ghost" is a multi-category love story about cousins who can't marry due to the law and the will left by their child molesting uncle. Laurel decided to place it in Incest.

While any and all input will be appreciated, I'm particularly interested in readers' thoughts about the dialogue in the hostile confrontation between the female cousin and the uncle.

Rumple Foreskin

Burying Uncle Hiram's Ghost
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Old 03-11-2004, 11:02 AM   #24
Pure
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Hey that's a helluva read. Fun and fresh. Well written.

That stretch of dialogue aint bad, imo. I find it a little 'speechy'; and too many words. Also I think *maybe* a little more back and forth would be nice, so it's not just like one of those old fashioned duels. But short and sweet (length as is) would also work, each 'speech' cut by a half.

Incidentally, while I appreciate intricacy, I think the 'cure' of Connie is a bit over the top.

Best,

J.
 

Old 03-11-2004, 01:37 PM   #25
Rumple Foreskin
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Quote:
Incidentally, while I appreciate intricacy, I think the 'cure' of Connie is a bit over the top.
Pure,

Well, she's supposed to be short. Thanks for the look see and input. If you get a chance, you might check out the story Dr. M. posted. I PMed KM, but she hasn't posted at Lit since March 1 so there's no telling when she show up and get things squared things away.

RF
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Don't take life so serious, son-it ain't no how permanent. - WALT KELLY

COLLY: ...only needs a hayseed and gun to get a part in any low class American movie that needs a small town idiot sheriff --- ABS: I still love him like an old dog that lies on the floor and farts --- VELLA: RumpleForeskin...was instrumental in saving the world --- KILLER MUFFIN: You know how to write smut --- ENGLISH LADY: I luv Rumple --- BLACK TULIP: worshipping the Rev. R. Foreskin.

Rumple's Reading Rubbish
 
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