How do you deal with the sound of a child being spanked?

I presume that most BDSM folks dislike the concept of children being spanked. That's why I'm posting here...

Occasionally, I've been in situations where I've heard (but not seen) the "lead up" to a child being punished.

I presume most people know what it sounds like and also easily recognize the sounds of a spanking, including the child's reaction.

When I hear it about to happen, my knees buckle but I want to get the hell out of there before it happens, before the gut wrenching pain of listening to the punishment itself. I usually can't get away fast enough and end up breaking down in public.

No, I don't have the strength to confront the parent.

Unfortunately, I find myself avoiding places where parents and young children might be found together: public parks, "family dining" places, discount stores at certain times of the day etc.

It's silly. I like kids. I just can't stand to hear people punishing them.

How do other people handle it? (Obviously I'm asking about people who find it disturbing).

Thanks...

Presumably when you say you like kids you mean the well mannered & well behaved kind. Just how do you think that this happens and please don't say that you just reason with them. Doesn't work. I'm not talking about long thrashing sessions here, just a quick slap on the butt to discourage poor or dangerous behaviour.

It doesn't worry me at all to see a parent discipline their child like this, in fact I wish more parents would teach their children better manners & behaviour.

I have no patience with people who allow their kids to run rampant, particularly in my house, public places & especially restaurants. Quite often I feel that they wish to administer a quick slap but worry that an interfering person such as yourself, with no knowledge of the child, the family or the situation will butt in with their own views about what constitutes abuse.

Child rearing has nothing whatsoever to do with BDSM and I wish that people would refrain from bringing children into the discussions here. It is not the place.

And yes, I have 2 children, now adults, and helped to raise another 2 stepchildren, so I do have some experience.

incubus'_sub said:

Presumably when you say you like kids you mean the well mannered & well behaved kind.

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No, I like kids. The ones that scream and yell and run around causing trouble aren't any less likeable than the ones who have been beaten into submission.

Child rearing has nothing whatsoever to do with BDSM

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Hogwash... A lot of us are into BDSM as an outlet for dealing with the trauma of having been spanked as children.

and I wish that people would refrain from bringing children into the discussions here. It is not the place.

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This is the BDSM Cafe. As the subtitle says, "Open discussion with a BDSM twist." Open discussion means open discussion.

Quite often I feel that they wish to administer a quick slap but worry that an interfering person such as yourself, with no knowledge of the child, the family or the situation will butt in with their own views about what constitutes abuse.

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I made it quite clear in my initial post that I don’t confront parents. I didn't ask about how to interfere. I asked about how people who find it disturbing handle it. You obviously do not find it disturbing.

I hear where you are coming from Angela, and do not condone the physical punishment of children. For one thing, it teaches them the way to deal with problems is through violence, and/or physically imposing their will on others against their wishes....not working through problems and discussing openly. It is amazing to me that so many adults have the view children do not have the potential and capacity to understand unless violence is applied...my experience is violence blocks any chance of understanding and creates a lifetime of problems. My own children were always encourarged to form their own opinions, but also take responsibility for those decisions, and to look at their behaviour in the way if affects others, not just themselves.

I find it intensely disturbing to even hear some of these shrews of mothers, and bullies of fathers bellowing at their children and/or laying into them physically. I have been known to confront more than one or two, and given my profession had a sound enough knowledge of both parenting and the law to be able to inform them of legally what they were exposing themselves to.
I am not beyond calling in authorities either, and in Australia with the introduction of Police units in many shopping centres, this is making it easier for those still living there.

I have noticed while living in Holland, a culture which seems to hold children and their rights in high esteem, that I have never witnessed a child being spanked, beaten, or yelled at, privately or publicly (and with the closeness/joining of houses, believe me you would know if it were behind closed doors)....a most pleasant change to what I have seen in the US and Australia. So, despite the advocates for physical punishment being necessary and the only way to teach a child, it obviously has been proven otherwise elsewhere. And yes, children are often a discussion point in both Talk and Cafe as many of us are parents or stepparents or grandparents who wish to discuss the difficulties and observations as responsible adults.

Catalina

I am one who uses and condones physical punishment within reason and without anger. A spank when a child needs to recognize who is really in charge and all the words in the world aren't making that point clear can be very helpful.

I am not suggesting all children should be spanked and no, spanking shouldn't happen when a parent is irritated or angry. But as punctuation for a point that is being "heard" by the child, it can be helpful.

Random thoughts thus far:

~everyone has their own opinion on child rearing. That is cool as children are individuals.

~Spanking doesn't have to be done in a fashion that is percieved as "traumatic."

~Harsh, condeming and demeaning words often do far more damage than a hand on the bottom.

~I have trouble believing that people are involved in BDSM in order to use it as outlet for trauma suffered as spankees. And if that is the case, it is likely that there was far more than spanking involved and then, when anyone uses BDSM as issues as an outlet, they may need to resolve those issues before engaging in BDSM. BDSM is not therapy.

~Thank you, uncubus' sub, your post reflected many of my thoughts.

~A parent does not enjoy spanking their child, but does it as they feel is necessary and generally, out of love for the child. If my two year old nearly runs into traffic, I will spank them. Staying away from teh road needs to be a one time lesson as there is no room for error in judgment.

~And I have worked with many families and many juvenile deliquents. A common statement by those parents has been, "I never spanked him when he was little. " (food for thought?)

MissTaken said:

~And I have worked with many families and many juvenile deliquents. A common statement by those parents has been, "I never spanked him when he was little. " (food for thought?)

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But perhaps they also never did anything else either...does not mean spanking is the answer. I too have counselled such families, and my observations were in the absence of physical violence such as spanking as a means to discipline, there was nothing put in place to replace it such as reasoning, communication, setting an example, and respect, which could have made a huge difference. There also was often issues of abuse in emotional or psychological terms, and/or children witnessing abuse between parents, or parents who stayed together unhappily because of the children, thus creating a burden of guilt and/or instability and insecurity in the child which spilled over into deliquency issues amongst other problems.

I felt it was a good move in Australia when it was highlighted and issues of abuse began to be discussed around issues of physical punishment, but since moving to The Netherlands where physical punishment is just not tolerated it has been highlighted for me and I have noticed the big difference on a societal level. I have to say for all the advocation spanking is the only way to get the message across, this society demonstrates another option which is working. It is not just a parent issue, but a whole community approach on both micro and macro levels.

I do not see delinquint and screaming children in public or private, there is not a climate of child and teen violence and anger similar to the USA and UK and on a lesser scale Australia, where there are problems with violence, murders, and bullying in schools. Children raised in this culture are very well behaved, well spoken, confident and happy, and think on a different level which includes reasoning from a younger age than most in our own countries are used to. Another thing I notice is I do not see pregnant teenagers, something I became so immune to in Australia I thought little of it eventually.

While there will always be different views, I think it relevent to look at the societies we have created today from childhoods of violence and abuse, verbal, physical, or emotional, and weigh them against societies which have honoured children's rights and respected them as individuals.....living in both types of cultures I am now seeing a huge difference in favour of the society based on respect for children and the condemnation of abuse used to discipline.

Catalina

catalina_francisco said:

But perhaps they also never did anything else either...does not mean spanking is the answer. I too have counselled such families, and my observations were in the absence of physical violence such as spanking as a means to discipline, there was nothing put in place to replace it such as reasoning, communication, setting an example, and respect, which could have made a huge difference.

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I knew you would say this as I thought of it after having clicked teh submit button!



As to teh rest of your post, you may be onto something in terms of cultural and societal responsibility. In a society wherein children are required to make "choices" from a very young age, giving the child the power to do so without giving them the tools to do so can lead to some very bad "choices". Also, it is apparent that many parents may lack the ability to replace spanking with anything else that works by nature of circumstances, lack of knowledge and judgment or lack fo support from the community. .



I still do not believe spanking a child has to be done in a fashion that is demoralizing or abusive.

MissTaken said:

I knew you would say this as I thought of it after having clicked teh submit button!



As to teh rest of your post, you may be onto something in terms of cultural and societal responsibility. In a society wherein children are required to make "choices" from a very young age, giving the child the power to do so without giving them the tools to do so can lead to some very bad "choices". Also, it is apparent that many parents may lack the ability to replace spanking with anything else that works by nature of circumstances, lack of knowledge and judgment or lack fo support from the community. .



I still do not believe spanking a child has to be done in a fashion that is demoralizing or abusive.

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I agree and spanking in a public place is exactly that. I have slapped hands that wandered too close to danger and raised my voice while doing so to quickly get the point across, or a slap on the botton before they get to the edge of the road.....but never have i had a thought of doing something like that in public and i cant think of one occasion where the thought crossed my mind or i needed to do it. There are always other solutions.. If children are misbehaved in public and annoying others it is the parents job to remove the child, ive had to get up and take mine outside at restaraunts or to the restroom and let them wash up to keep them occupied. A smack on the rear in a public place because a child is fidgeting is nothing more to me then complete intolerance on the parents part, if a parent has no desire to handle thier child properly in public, then the parent need not be in public settings with their child. It is a parents job to socialize a child and teach them proper behavior...spanking in a public place or in front of others, to me would make the child embarrassed and resentful to the parent who did that to them...we could get into the psychological reasons for said child repeating actions as a means of getting attention from the intolerant parent or how the resentment would do the same but i think the point came across in my post. Responsible parenting is a 24/7 thing, it doesnt stop because mommy sat down in a restaraunt, or daddy is looking for a CD in the mall.

Childrearing.

Honestly. I think you presume too much.
As to your question "How do you deal with......."
I don't.
Now, having said that, you have to say that there is (or is suposed to be) a difference between what is traditionally understood as a spanking. Administered for disciplinary reasons. And physical abuse of the child in question.
SOme people will tell you that a spanking constitutes physical abuse. I won't. Neither did my adolescent psych, or pre-adolescent psych professors.
And yes, I have interfered in what I saw as being physical abuse.
The details don't really matter here and now.

Qualifications.
Anything like this has to come with some qualifications.

One: Yes I have children of my own. I have spanked when I thought it was necessary. Which means when all the other available options were not working. I make no connections between this and our particular lifestyle choice.
In fact I find it rather disturbing when others do.

Two: Cultural matrix. There are ALWAYS differences in the way different cultures deal with things, from the simplest to the most complex. Sometimes in this country (the US) we have difficulty with that simple concept.

Three: The people who say "I never spanked" often never did anything else either. They were at a loss to deal with a smart, stubborn, individual, that was determined to behave ina certain way. A lot of them assumed that the school system (or whoever else) would straighten it all out. No chance. Nope, don't happen.

Hmmm Four: (ANd this is one of those odd philosophical points) Look at US society around the time of world war two and now. We had a lot of other problems, but drive by shootings were the sole province of the mafia. Better yet look at the figures on juvenile court cases involving serious crime. THe statistics can be interesting.

I've been doing this a long time, and I'll be completely honest. I have never in all these years met anyone in BDSM that said they were dealing with "Being spanked" (well other than a few who were dealing with their own responses to it. Mainly that it had made them horny) And I HAVE met a variety of people dealing with a lot of issues. SOme from childhood.
Including myself.
We all deal with issues. Such is life.
The trick is to realize what those issues are, and to be honest with yourself. Which can be an involved process, and may involve going to see a professional.

I DO agree with incubus'_sub, this is NOT an appropriate place to discuss childrearing issues. Of whatever sort. There are a plethora of boards on the net, and I'm sure that there are those that deal with parenting to the exclusion of other things. (And they would probably not welcome a discussion of BDSM).
THe only excuse I can see for discussing kids here is the possibility that they may have walked in on something.
Which, by the way, would be a major parenting failure.

Or to quote someone else "Commandment #53, There is BDSM, and there are kids. THOU SHALT NOT CONFUSE THE TWO. EVER."

My understanding is the Cafe is a place where anything can be discussed by members of the community here. From the evidence of threads which range from diets to Av's and all things in between I think children are not that big an invasion.

I aso don't agree that people who don't spank do not use alternative methods. I was not spanked as a child, nor did I spank my own children, nor do many of my friends....and yet all the children involved have been well behaved and happy, and have known there is an alternative to resorting to violence to make a point. Perhaps if our governments had learned the same we would not be killing each other senselessly just to prove who has the bigger weapon with which to impose our choices on everyone who disagrees. And yes, I studied psyche as well.

Catalina

Believe it or not, I admire parents who spank their children and somehow create a loving, caring relationship with them. I know some of them and I know it can be done.

I just have a problem with it happening around me.

I would have the same problem standing in an operating room watching surgeons cut someone open repair a heart valve. Some people can handle that. I can't.

Does that mean I want to prevent surgeons from cutting people open? Does that mean I think surgery is cruel and should be outlawed? Of course not.

But it does mean that I don't spend time in operating rooms and I try to avoid hospitals whenever possible. I also avoid the homes of people who spank children and I certainly don’t go into the child’s bedroom and watch it happen.

There is an appropriate time and place for such things.

Surgeons do their work behind closed doors in an environment that is appropriate to surgery. In an emergency, they put the patient in an ambulance and administer pain medication before cutting them open.

A sterile field is important to surgery and privacy is important to the administration of punishment to a child.

In an extreme emergency EMTs administer first aid and get the patient into an ambulance ASAP. They don't try to do a coronary bypass in the middle of a Wal-Mart.

I can't remember the last time I heard someone screaming in pain as an EMT stuck a scalpel into his or her chest. I *can* remember times when I have heard a child scream in pain as a parent took down their clothes and spanked them.

Doctors have respect for the dignity of the patient and, whenever possible, do their work in a forum where the patient will not be humiliated. When women have heart attacks, they don’t rip their clothes open and wave the tits around for all to see. In fact, they discretely cover what they can so that the woman’s dignity is protected.

If I saw or heard EMTs behaving inappropriately and exposing the patient unnecessarily, I would report it.

If I saw or heard a surgeon cutting someone open in the middle of a shopping mall, I would report him and let him explain his behavior to the authorities (after the emergency was over and the patient stabilized).

Actually, I would probably puke my guts out while it was happening so there wouldn't be any danger of my interrupting the process. I would also do my level best to find a ladies room before vomiting, but I might not make it.
Afterward, I would trust the judgment of the medical board as to the appropriateness of the surgeon’s behavior, just as I would normally trust the judgment of Child and Family Services (or whatever the agency is in a particular area) to deal with seemingly inappropriate behavior from parents.

Now. For those of you who feel it is appropriate to spank children, please stop hijacking the thread. Don’t try to sell me on your viewpoint. Don’t try to convince me to stop interfering. I have only ever interfered in spankings where it was my place to do so (i.e. in my own family).

If you want to talk about the merits of spanking, please start another thread.

If you are unable to answer the question in the title of the thread, please step back and listen to those who can.

Goodness no, I have no intention to/ or expectation of any ability to convert anyone to my point of view.

But I do think I answered at least part of your question -How to deal with the prospect of someone spanking their child. I don't.
I will admit that I missed the part at the bottom where you were requesting the affirmative, agreeing opinions only.

As such, and for that, I apologize.

One (sort of) last thing and I will leave this thread to it's own devices.
I think the comparison to an EMT might be a little extreme.
And I DO think that people who spank their children in public are, to say the least, uncouth. Neither do I think the public exhibition of this discipline does them or the child any good.

Oh, and while spanking a child in the middle of a mall is quetionable. Pulling down their clothes to do so is not. THere is no question there.
It is wrong.
Public exposure of the nudity of children IS something the authorities frown on. A lot.
ANd I fully agree with them.

You said you presume other BDSM people would disapprove of spanking children. Some will, some won't, we are just ordinary folk with differing opinions about everything and the only thing which bands us together is a particular desire.

We are a group of admitted abusers & abusees by the general usage of the word and have a dislike & fear of the constant interference of government bodies and well meaning laws that insist on trying to protect us from ourselves without understanding us. Yet there are those amongst us who seem to trumpet "abuse" in every act from a sideways angry glance to a full blown murderous attack and advocate immediate personal & legal interference. As long as they themselves are left alone to pursue whatever it is they feel like doing!
I think the word abuse is abused these days. It used to have serious meaning, but these days with almost any act being labelled that way, depending on the eye of the beholder, that meaning has all but disappeared.

So, if you disapprove of how people choose to discipline their own children because you can't handle it, then fine, stay away from them.

I agree, as someone noted, that a child walking in at the wrong moment would be a discussion point with regard to BDSM, but linking punishment of a naughty child and your own over the top reaction to it is just plain wrong. As for the surgeons operating, well, if I was dying I wouldn't care where or what they did to save me and to hell with the squeamish onlookers. To think that someone would consider making a complaint is ludicrous.

This is an open discussion forum.
That means we can post what we like for open discussion and we cannot control how others will respond. As such, I don't see this thread as having been hijacked. The cycle of this discussion lends itself to discussion of the pros and cons of spanking.

No, BDSM should never be mixed with children, EVER. However, this piece of cyber space is available to discuss anything we choose. As long as discussions concerning child rearing are not held in a sexual context, they will remain here.


To answer the original question: There have been times when I wasn't comfortable with how a child was disciplined and I stated so or otherwise made suggestions. After nine years working the area of child abuse and neglect, I am comfortable doing so.

However, I am not comfortable with excessively drunk people and therefore, seldom go to a bar or tavern.

However, if hearing a child be disciplined is akin to fingernails running over a chalkboard, stay away from those situations, as it sounds like you are doing, angela.

I am trying to figure out how and why your reaction is so intense. Are there other things that provoke a similar reaction as the spanking of children?

MissTaken said:

This is an open discussion forum.
That means we can post what we like for open discussion and we cannot control how others will respond. As such, I don't see this thread as having been hijacked. The cycle of this discussion lends itself to discussion of the pros and cons of spanking.

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OK, I agree.

... However, I am not comfortable with excessively drunk people and therefore, seldom go to a bar or tavern.

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Which is why I stay away from certain kinds of public places. The problem is that short of staying away from children in public, I'm not sure how to avoid it.

However, if hearing a child be disciplined is akin to fingernails running over a chalkboard, stay away from those situations, as it sounds like you are doing, angela. I am trying to figure out how and why your reaction is so intense. Are there other things that provoke a similar reaction as the spanking of children?

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I'm going to be deliberately indirect.

If one is the first-born child in a family that spanks, one grows up hearing ones younger siblings get spanked. First-born children (even girls) feel a responsibility from a very young age for protecting their brothers and sisters. But they can't usually protect them from the parents.

Hell, the eldest can't usually even protect him/her self.

The sounds of spanking and crying come through the walls of ones bedroom and sometimes through the ductwork. There is no hiding from it. The worst part is "Please! Stop! Mommy, No! I'll be good, I promise!"

I'm working on a story that tries to explore this experience. I'll post when I'm ready.

If you want to try to understand some of what a child goes through in *getting* spanked, try reading my story, "Michelle's Last Spanking". Keep in mind that this is an 18-year-old's story so it is relatively mild.

Probably a great many of us were spanked at some stage during childhood and so we understand exactly how it feels from a child's point of view. I dare say that many of us chose not to repeat the naughty behaviour that resulted in said spanking too.

I doubt that the odd spanking as a child is seen as having been abuse by most people either.

It hasn't affected me in any way, mentally or physically and certainly has nothing to do with my kinks.

Your own personal extreme reaction to these sounds maybe needs investigating if you are finding that you have to limit your interaction with family and friends because of it. Or maybe you needed some comfort here because your family and friends have told you to deal with your own problems, get a life and stop interfering. If members of your own family discipline their children with the odd spanking, and presuming that they grew up in the same family atmosphere as you did, then it obviously didn't concern them as it does you.

All people have some issues with their childhoods because parents & caregivers are human too and make mistakes. As adults it's up to us to come to terms with it, make the best of it & get on with it.

I've seen people pretty much beating their children in broad daylight with nobody saying a single word.

I'm talking about things far beyond the rational admonishing smack on the butt for a specific behavior.

I've seen people growl and snarl at kids for expressing the merest kidlike behavior, telling them to shut up through gritted teeth.

My mom dragged me through the streets by my hair and none of the good citizenry seemed to think it was problematic.

If anything, I think were way too slow to get in each others' faces as a society.

incubus'_sub said:

... Or maybe you needed some comfort here because your family and friends have told you to deal with your own problems, get a life and stop interfering. If members of your own family discipline their children with the odd spanking, and presuming that they grew up in the same family atmosphere as you did, then it obviously didn't concern them as it does you.

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No, and I can be open about this part:

My siblings and I are in solidarity. We do not hit children, ours or anyone elses. My parents have been told that they will suffer a fate worse than death if they ever raise a hand in anger to any of the grandchildren.

There is a difference between a parent giving a child a spank on the bottom and beating them to within an inch of their life. There is also a difference if the child is 1 year old or 5 years old. And each child is different. In most cases, parents are best at determining which method of punishing or discplining works for that particular child. No, I could not tolerate a beating - and, as part of my job, I would be required to report the situation. (Quite different from confronting the parent, btw) So, it would depend on your definition of "spank", I suppose.

OK

I read through this thread and actually found some well stated facts by quite a few people. I am a mommy of 3 who has had a lot of issues to deal with in my past. What that basically boils down to is that I can not, will not, stand by and watch a parent *BEAT* their children. Would I confront them? No..I am of the sort that would report it to the proper authorities.

A beating is something that degrades, injures, physically and emotionally HURTS a child...since I have been the recipient of quite a few of those in my life, I can tell em when I see em.

So yes...I can not stand to hear or see a child being beaten..but running from the sounds of it does not make it go away. And a loving hand on the bum or a quick swat of the hands is not beating a child.

Basically...I think a parent is the one to determine how that child is corrected. A full fledged beating requires that someone in authority be told, period. Screaming, hollaring..calling a child names...that requires the same thing. A swat on the bum or the fingers...that is none of my business.

angela146 said:

No, and I can be open about this part:

My siblings and I are in solidarity. We do not hit children, ours or anyone elses. My parents have been told that they will suffer a fate worse than death if they ever raise a hand in anger to any of the grandchildren.

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I have to say though that as stated, there is rather a large difference between 'raising a hand in anger' to a child, and chastising them with a swat on the butt or on the hand to keep them from doing something dangerous or destructive as a disciplinary tactic.

For me, I see raising a hand in anger as hitting a child inappropriately, beating them, slapping them, humiliating them, etc.

A swat on the hand or rear is necessary at times, and I have no issue with my parents disciplining my daughter this way if she reaches for a boiling pot, or the oven door, or a dog she shouldn't pet, etc.

My parents never beat me, and rarely even swatted me. Instead, they lectured me, and at times, I would have much preferred a quick spanking so the subject would be blessedly over rather than the interminable dressing down. But then, my father is a pastor, so sermonizing was in the blood.

sunfox said:

I have to say though that as stated, there is rather a large difference between 'raising a hand in anger' to a child, and chastising them with a swat on the butt or on the hand to keep them from doing something dangerous or destructive as a disciplinary tactic.

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True, there is a difference but one is a threat of the other.

For me, I see raising a hand in anger as hitting a child inappropriately, beating them, slapping them, humiliating them, etc.

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The purpose of raising your hand as a threat is to strike fear into the child. Certainly it is a lesser degree of a problem than actual hitting. Neither is acceptable behavior toward my siblings, nieces or nephews.

The added factor in this situation is that my parents have a history of abusing.

A swat on the hand or rear is necessary at times,

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No, it isn't. Parents do not need to hit. Theychoose to hit. There are entire countries where spanking is against the law. How do you think parents handle it in those countries?

One of the actual positive things I learned from my father is that there is no such thing as "can't". Raising children without hitting them can be done.

and I have no issue with my parents disciplining my daughter this way if she reaches for a boiling pot, or the oven door, or a dog she shouldn't pet, etc.

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As opposed to picking her up and taking her away from the boiling pot.

My parents never beat me, and rarely even swatted me. Instead, they lectured me, and at times, I would have much preferred a quick spanking so the subject would be blessedly over rather than the interminable dressing down. But then, my father is a pastor, so sermonizing was in the blood.

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It isn't an either/or choice. Dressings down don't have to be interminable. Although that would be a particularly difficult thing for a pastor. "Sort Sermon" ranks up there with "jumbo shrimp" or "millitary intelligence".

SexyChele said:

There is a difference between a parent giving a child a spank on the bottom and beating them to within an inch of their life. There is also a difference if the child is 1 year old or 5 years old. And each child is different.

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Sure there is a difference, just as there is a difference between degrees of "battery".

In most cases, parents are best at determining which method of punishing or discplining works for that particular child. No, I could not tolerate a beating - and, as part of my job, I would be required to report the situation. (Quite different from confronting the parent, btw)

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Certainly true! Reporting allows the situation to be handled by experts.

Punishing children in corporal ways is illegal where I live, and I think it should be. It is hard for a parent to draw the line when to hit and why. My mother was beaten as a child regularly and severly, but she has never hitted me. She sometimes yanked me by my hair when I was a kid and being too uppity and overly rude, but she never hurt me physically. I was always given a lecture, and hell, it is a far better punishment that a smack.

I strongly support yanking the child away from the boiling pot/wrong dog/ whatever forbidden. I yank the hands of my close ones and friends away from things they shouldn't touch, because shouting "NO" might come too late. I have excellent reflexes and I rely on my physical speed better than my ability to verbally make the person quickly stop whatever they are doing.

Hitting the child for doing something wrong gives the wrong sort of message, I think. I recently saw a woman hitting her young son for hitting another little boy, and it made me wonder what the children think - how they comprehend the fact that it's wrong for them to hit each other but okay for the grown-ups to hit them? Kids are smart, and if they are told simply what they aren't allowed to do, they understand that it's wrong. Reminding of them of breaking what was agreed and why it is wrong to do so has proven to be punishment enough.

Yes, good idea. Yanking a child away from something so they only suffer a dislocated arm is far better than a slap on the back of the hand. I'll do that next time.

Seriously, whatever works for you is your thing. But I'll raise my child how I see fit. I'm not going to yank my baby around when no, and a little smack if she keeps at it, will work just fine. Nor would I advocate yanking a child speedily away from a loose dog, for the record. If you really want to excite the urge to attack in an animal, try moving quickly. Trust me... that'll do the trick.

Then you'll both be sporting a lovely selection of stitches.

Either way, being insulting of how I raise my child is hardly going to shift my thinking over to your point of view.

As for the illegality argument.. well, let's see. How many things are illegal in the US... and how few of them are enforced? *snicker* I can just see the spanking police uniforms now.