On Writing: Dialogue

Okay, here's another one of Muff's bright ideas to make this forum more enticing and maybe have it move more. Let's see if it appeals better than the last idiotic notion from yours truly.

The point of this exercise is to bring a portion of writing relevant to stuff posted at Lit up for discussion. I will ask leading questions, but you are not limited to answering them. You can discuss however you choose. I thought about it, but I won't being using stories in these posts as examples. You can, however. Examples are always good. If you use a story, please post the excerpt clearly and a link back to the original.

The first discussion: Dialogue

After a thorough lot of "reading" in the lists for the past month or so, maybe longer (it all runs together), I've concluded that half the stories use dialogue to further the story. The other half either don't use it, or don't use it to develop anything.

So let's give it a look.

What is dialogue?

How can dialogue be used to develop character?

How can dialogue be used to develop plot?

How do you use attributives to their best advantage (attributives are the words that tag the speech, "said" words)?

How do you use dialogue combined with action?

How do you use dialogue combined with description?

What do you consider "good" use of dialogue? "Bad" use?

Attributives.

What's your take on these?

How do you get around using them?



Answer what you wish, discuss away!

Hi kid

Seems a bit quiet in here yet muffie.

First and foremost, I'm no author as in the serious side of things, I'm far to busy making a living, and far too lowly educated for all the complicated side of it all.

I'm an engineer, not a writer!

Dialogue?

As part of my continued experimentation into the mysterious world of writing I've recently written two stories, and posted them here, containing dialogue only, not one word of narrative in either.
I tried my best to describe the characters and build the story through their chat alone.
It didn't really work out too well I feel in either case, but it was something I wanted to try, so I tried it.
(The first tale I rushed the ending too much to get it on the board for Valentines day).

Attributing a speech line can be avoided if you try hard enough, but I'm lazy so I don't always try hard enough, if you do it right it's obvious who's talking and why they're saying what they are saying.

As for narrative description, yes I use it quite a bit in some tales if it's needed to build the plot or introduce something or someone.

How about you? Any particular preferences.

pops..............

Re: Hi kid

pop_54 said:

Attributing a speech line can be avoided if you try hard enough, but I'm lazy so I don't always try hard enough, if you do it right it's obvious who's talking and why they're saying what they are saying.

How about you? Any particular preferences.

pops..............

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i'm full of the bugs of a head/chest virus at the moment, so please forgive me if i sound nutty...

i used to loathe dialogue. i can't touch type the speech marks and they really hack me off because i have to stop typing to find them every single time i need to use them. but, i adore using dialogue in stories.

when i write, i sit and write what i'm told , but i have noticed that when wearing my editor's hat for other authors, once or twice i've been able to cause a situation whereby a couple of characters use dialogue to move the story forward. it's a very useful skill and one that i recommend every single one of us should try.

Attributives can be handy if there's no other way of indicating who is speaking. Personally, if i have only a couple of characters then i find it very easy to indicate who is talking before the beginning of the conversation and then it's a simple matter of only once or twice using attributives during the dialogue to remind the reader who is speaking. I try not to use 'said....' I find it boring to write (though not always boring to read).


Dialogue takes one step forward when you're willing to try it. but it's a worthwhile step to take

"Attributives are more fun to write than read," he said decisively.

My fingers almost refuse to say a simple "she said", but yet when I read, "he/she said" are darn near invisible in a well written piece.

I know this a story discussion circle, but I'll mention that I've tried dialog in two poems, and it worked out very well. The beauty of dialog is that is what it is. It's the writer's equivalent to "a picture is worth a thousand words".

Dialogue is a way of advancing the story or for character development. It's undoubtably the best way of showing stuff about your characters rather than just telling. Dialogue is invaluable in 1st person stories. How else do we know what the other characters are thinking?

I don't really have much to say on the subject as dialogue is not one of my strengths, but those who have heard this rant before will know what to expect.

Dialogue tags (attributives) are the work of the devil! He said/she said - if it's in quote marks, then it should be obvious that someone's speaking. Observe:

I coughed, notifying her that I’d noticed. “Will you stop reading that? It’s private.”

She glared at me again. “What is your problem?”

“My problem is that you seem incapable of understanding ‘Stop reading my story.’ Just watch the film.”

“I hate Spiderman.”

“Read a book.”

“I’ve finished it.”

“Go to sleep!”

“I’m not tired.”

“Do something else then! Just stop reading over my shoulder!”

There was an uneasy minute of silence and I actually started to believe that she was going to leave me alone.

“So what are you writing?”

I closed the notebook and started banging my head on the seat in front of me. She twisted in her seat to face me. “Come on. I’m bored and you’re writing something in a notebook that you’re trying to make sure no-one else can see. You’re interesting.”

“Look, if I had nothing to do, would you let me stare at your tits for twelve hours simply because they’re interesting?”

“I’d let you if you asked nicely.”

“Well, you haven’t even asked yet.”

“Fine. Can I read what you’re writing?”

I sighed. “Will you leave me alone if I let you?”

“Sure.”

I tore the previous pages out of my notebook and handed them to her. “Knock yourself out.” I returned to the blank page, praying to the god of all fiction writers that I could now get on with some work.

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Imagine if I'd attached attributives to every one of those bits of dialogue. 18 lines and not a single direct attributive. I think it flows better because of that. Omit needless words.

[/rant]

The Earl

Dialogue. I love it! I really enjoy trying to make my characters live a little through their words. Whether I'm successful or not is for the readers to decide, but I've had enough positive feedback to suggest I'm not getting too much wrong. Most of the readers seem to like it, or at least they don't single it out for condemnation.

Muffie asked, "What is dialogue?"

To me, the spoken interplay between characters in a story

"How can dialogue be used to develop character?"

By putting words in the characters' mouths to suggest their personality. This is, I think, my own weak spot, possibly because I tend to write lightly and my characters are sort of nice. I haven't dared write a dark piece yet. I'm not sure my skill is up to it.

"How can dialogue be used to develop plot?"

In a not too dissimilar way to using it to develop character. In a so-far unpublished story – so no link, sorry – I have the main protagonist initiate a little piece of detective work –

An hour later, the man I'd been hoping to see came in. Peter Ball, local entrepreneur and all round fingers-in-everything man. A lot distrusted him but I'd always found Pete to be scrupulously honest. The ones who distrusted him didn't deal with him and he was careful to maintain his image when he thought he was being watched.

It was quiet when he came in and I caught his eye and waved him over.

"Hang on, Matt. I'll get meself a pint."

"Chas?" I called. "Pete's pint's on me." Chas nodded and Pete came over with his pint and sat down at my table.

"What can I do for you, Matt?"

"You still got your contacts, Pete?"

"Where?" His attention had sharpened.

"Around." I gestured vaguely.

"All right, then. Who?"

"My unloved ex-partner."

"Tony?" He was surprised.

"Tony."

"What about him?"

"I want to know if he's got his fingers in anything sticky."

"There's been rumours," he said darkly. "What's it worth?"

"Fifty for you, fifty for your leg man. Up front."

"Just for the leg man, Matt. I won't charge you if there's nothing."

"Fair enough, Pete. I'd be grateful for anything and as soon as possible."

"Consider it done, Matt. You at the studio?"

"All week and most of next. Trish will know where to find me if I'm out."

"Ok, Matt. If I'm working, I'm off now! See you." He sank the rest of his pint, waved to Chas and went out. I settled up with Chas and went back to the studio.

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In this extract I was trying to advance the plot by setting something up 'off-stage', something which could go on in the background and be brought back into the story later.

"How do you use attributives to their best advantage?"

I'm not sure I've mastered this! In my extract above a lot of the speech isn't tagged, as the conversation is between two people only and as His Grace TheEarl has indicated, in such a situation attributives aren't always necessary. Where I have used them, I've used them to indicate something other than regular speech – 'he said darkly', for instance.

In a situation where feelings are running high, attributives may be unavoidable. In 'A Date for the Prom' Catherine has surprised Jim examining some compromising photographs of her and her late fiancé which he has inadvertently discovered.

"Are you disgusted, Jim?" There was anger in her tone, but there was a sadness, a sadness that was terrible to me, the sadness of betrayal, but also of something else.

I spun around at her voice, shocked. Shocked even more to see the tears cascading unheeded down her cheeks, I felt a sense of profound guilt. I shook my head wildly.

"No," I stammered, "they're beautiful, you're beautiful, I wasn't prying, they fell out when I put the other folder back." I stammered into silence.

She held out her hand and I fumbled the photographs into the folder and passed it to her. Her eyes were distant, unfocussed, as she clutched the folder to her chest.

"He was my fiancé, Jim. Peter, his name was. We were to be married eight days after he was killed in a car crash. They are almost the only photographs I have with him on them. That's why I kept them." She paused. "They're very special to me." Finally, painfully, she raised her eyes to mine. "Now I suppose you'll tell all your girl friends."

Now it was my turn to feel the pain. "I would never do that," I said vehemently. I laughed shortly. "Anyway, I have no girl friend."

"You haven't?" Despite her pain, there was surprise in her voice. "A good-looking boy like you, I was sure...."

"Oh, I did have, sure. But...." My voice trailed off and I could feel the embarrassment creeping over me yet again.

"Something went wrong?" she asked gently, wiping her eyes with a handkerchief.

I nodded, feeling unshed tears in my own eyes.

"Do you want to talk about it?"

I shook my head, 'no', but almost without volition felt my mouth open and my voice uttering forth.

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Here again there are only two characters but I had to use attributive phrases to try to indicate the emotions – 'I stammered', 'Isaid vehemently', 'my voice trailed off', etc.

As OT has said, the 'he/she said' becomes virtually invisible in a well-told story. I hope I have learned not to use other tags to excess!

"How do you use dialogue combined with action?"

"How do you use dialogue combined with description?"

'As best I can' has to be the answer to both of these. I'm still learning.

"What do you consider 'good' use of dialogue?"

Dialogue which advances the story and doesn't intrude. Dialogue which isn't 'noticed', which doesn't intrude.

"What do you consider 'bad' use of dialogue?"

Trying to tell too much of story/background in dialogue. I gave up reading Dennis Wheatley historical novels very quickly when a character went on for about four pages telling another character the background to the situation! Hadn't he ever heard of 'show, don't tell'?

Sorry about the length of this diatribe, but you did ask! And I do like dialogue.

Alex

Good answers Alex. I actually don't have that much of a beef with attributives, if they're used for a purpose. I just dislike writing direct attributives myself.

The Earl

remember i'm the lazy one

I think that dialogue is what makes a story into a movie scene for the mind. The mouths of the characters open up and pour themselves out, or withhold themselves, for our enlightenment. "A man speaks out of that which fills his heart."

We learn about motivations and interrelationships through the dialogue transcribed for us. That is how I view dialogue, the faithful repeating of what characters spoke. Sometimes tags are necessary for clarity and intonation. Usually I rely upon an editor to help me discern which are necessary.

I was pleased with my last story's dialogue. I could hear it clearly in my mind. I had been nagged by a fellow writer to add more dialogue to my stories.. and justifiably so. It was a bit ironic to me to see the reactions from the different genders. In general, the woman who read it said that the dialogue worked for them. While several of the men couldn't believe it.

It's all what we bring with us, I guess.


b

Just a question... has anybody noticed how many adverbs ('ly' words) are being used in the dialogue attributive examples quoted, or is it just me?

(No offence meant to anyone. It was just an observation worthy of discussion.)

Just a question... has anybody noticed how many adverbs ('ly' words) are being used in the dialogue attributive examples quoted, or is it just me?

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Ouch!

OK, guilty! I'll try to do better next time - maybe.

Alex

Re: Discussion: Dialogue

KillerMuffin said:

How can dialogue be used to develop character?

<snip>

What do you consider "good" use of dialogue? "Bad" use?

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The way we speak, imho, is a good description of the people we are. Things we choose to say, or blurt out by mistake, can really shape us in someone elses eyes. Good authors (and i'm not saying i'm one) can do this really well. You can develope relationships between characters, as well. you can paint the manipulative girl who's twisting her lover around her finger, or the shy older woman who is completely tonguetied.

When I write, I try to use lots of dialogue. It seems to make things flow easier. I don't usually use plain old pure dialogue, though. I like to mix it with descriptions and such:

Stranger on a Strange Train

“I need you,” Chad whispered into my ear. I almost jumped in the seat, and looked over at him quickly. Sure enough, there was that look in his eyes. Shifting uncomfortably in my seat I leaned towards him and whispered into his ear.

“I need you too. We’ll talk about it later, okay?”

Chad’s hand slipped out of mine and settled on my leg, squeezing it softly through my pants.

“I need you now,” he whispered again. “I want to fuck you right here, and I don’t care who knows or sees.”

“Well I do,” I whispered a bit harshly back at him. “Later, I promise, okay?”

This seemed to satisfy my husband and he leaned away from my ear, resting his head back against the tacky orange seat cover. His hand, however, remained on my leg, caressing it softly with fingers moving back and forth. I couldn’t help myself, it had been too long since I’d felt his touch. Squirming in my small seat, I felt my pussy getting moist.

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Here's an example of how I would use dialogue to describe a relationship:

Summertime Blues

“Hello?” I said, picking the cordless phone up and leaning against the wall. The moisture from the pool dripped in small drops down my body, and I watched as it puddled at my feet. I would have to mop later...but not until it was cooler out.

“Hi Amy!” Justin said enthusiastically. My heart leapt at the sound of my husband’s voice. “How’re you?”

“Hot,” I whimpered, sighing dramatically for my husbands benefit.

“Still sitting in your pool?” I had told him all about the pool yesterday, on the phone.

“I was until someone called,” I smiled against the phone as Justin laughed. I knew he wouldn’t take me seriously, which was why I could tease him. Realistically, if he chose to hang up now and let me have my pool time, I might just cry. This was the first contact with any human I’d had all day, and I didn’t want to give it up.

“Well, get back in, woman!”

“I think I will,” I agreed, walking back towards my pool, phone in hand. “How’s D.C.?”

“Boring. I miss my wife. If you see her, you should give her my love, and tell her how horrible it is here without her.”

“Well, you’re the one that decided to get in to a business that would keep you away from home.”

“Babe, I wish I didn’t have to. I promise next quarter I won’t be moving around so much. After I get promoted, you’ll either come with me or I won’t go, alright?”

I smiled again, Justin’s soft voice making me happy.

“I’m so lonely. I miss you so much.” I felt my eyes watering just thinking about the weeks of loneliness I’d gone through so far, and felt fear at the idea of the time ahead. Blinking, I tried to shake myself off. “And it’s so hot.”

“Well, you’re lucky I’m not there,” I could almost picture his sinister grin at that comment. I giggled into the phone.

“Why?” I teased, going for his bait.

“Because if I was there, you’d be up in bed right now, pleasuring me. And I promise you that it’s hotter up there with me than it is down in your nice cool pool.”

“You’ve been gone two weeks. I’d go through any temperature to be with you right now. I miss you so much.”

“And my cock? Do you miss him, too? He misses you!”

“I miss you!” I exclaimed, stepping into my pool and sinking down into the water. “But I guess I miss it, too. It’s been ages, you know. I haven’t had an orgasm since you left.”

Justin’s laughter on the other end of the phone stopped short.

“Seriously?” he asked, concern in his voice.

“Yeah,” I said, reaching up and toying with one of my nipples through my suit. “I’ve masturbated, but it’s just...I couldn’t reach the peak. I want the penetration.”

“There are other things you can use.”

“Well,” I said, hesitantly, “I just don’t know. I’ve never been courageous enough to buy anything...why the sudden curiosity?”

“I just always assumed you were still satisfied when I left, is all,” He sighed deeply on the other end of the phone. “Honey, Amy, Sweetheart, I have to admit that when I’m gone I have at least three orgasms a day! If I’m not jerking off in the shower thinking of you, then I’m jerking off on the bed, or on the chair, thinking about your pert little ass. I just always assumed you were doing the same. Makes me feel bad to think you aren’t.”

“Don’t feel bad!” I protested, sitting up in the pool again. I crossed my legs in front of me and slouched over, talking quietly into the phone. “It just makes me miss you more, and when you get back I’ll be everything you’ve ever imagined. I promise that it’s not a big deal.”

“Amy…it makes me feel really guilty to think I’m getting more pleasure than you, and you know I how much I hate feeling guilty. You still have two to go before I come home. I don’t want you to wait for me.”

“Well, what’s my other option?” I asked, rhetorically. “Go to an adult store and buy myself a dildo?”

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IMHO "good" use of dialogue is interesting, naturual, easy to read and takes the story along. It's relevant, not put in just for word count. "Bad" use might be when it makes no sense to the reader.

chicklet

Realistic Dialogue

My written dialogue is now removed from this post.

I use dialogue to (hopefully) draw the reader into the story and help in understanding my characters.

I think it's easier to "feel" what is going on if the characters tell you, than to read the narration of an outside observer. Dialogue is also an excellent manner in which to develop characters. Speech is always colored by mood and personality, and most importantly, by the way in which we wish to be viewed by others. Playing on the different ways in which a character speaks is an effective tool to let the reader understand who the character is, and how they feel at the moment. Dialogue also accomplishes this task with a lot fewer words.

I dislike blatant tags unless they are necessary to make clear the identity of the speaker. It's usually sufficient to start a new paragraph to define a change of speakers. If I use them, I prefer to initiate the tag before the dialogue, and sometimes I do this to convey the type of speech as much as to identify the speaker.

In a story about Joe, Beth, Judy and Mary, I could write -

"Speaking as a horny man, I can say with authority that you have got to be the sexiest woman on earth.", said Joe.

"And just how did you come to that conclusion.", chuckled Mary.

"Now wait a minute.", yelled Beth. "How do you know he didn't mean me? You're not the only woman in the room, you know."

"Sorry, but you're both wrong.", mused Judy. "Isn't it obvious that he was talking about the only one of us with a bustline?"

- but the first tag seems redundant. There is only one man in the scene; the speaker has to be Joe.

The second tag sets Mary's mood after the reader has read her statement. When I read tags like this, I have to go back to get the feel of the character.

The third and fourth tags are similar to the second, and more difficult to deal with, but it's possible to convey moods and identities without the tags.

I would probably write -

"Speaking as a horny man, I can say with authority that you have got to be the sexiest woman on earth."

Mary chuckled. "And just how did you come to that conclusion."

"Now you wait just one damn minute. How do you know he didn't mean me. You're not the only woman in the room, you know."

"I'm sorry, Beth. Joe was looking at me and I just-"

"Sorry, but you're both wrong. Isn't it obvious that he was talking about the only one of us with a bustline?"

Surely not perfect, but if I did this correctly, the reader should understand who said what, and should be starting to understand the personalities of the three women.

Anybody who knows me knows that I love the hell out of Quentin Terratino, and if you want to see some really well written dialog pieces, watch Pulp Fiction or Resevoir Dogs...maybe True Romance.

For some reason, even though we do it all day, its so hard for people to get a handle on dialog, for one reason I think because most people seem compelled to make their pieces imagery rich, and quite frankly, at least in American society, we are pretty skint on most of the details in our speech. In fact, half the time unless youre really listening, we're damn near incoherant, and that transition from imagery to dialog can either upset the story flow or be lacking altogether.

Personally what I like to do, is give the "s amiss, and add dialog as part of the story. As in: so she asked me if I had ever done anything like this before, which to me flows a lot smother than: She asked, "blah blah blah."

Its quickly becoming self evident that Ive lost the focus of what I was talking about (Damn you attention deficit!) so I guess I will just close by suggesting writing some first person narration in stream of conciousness, which is almost how I do all of my writing, and just try to describe a scene exactly how you would tell a friend and type it down like that. If you can learn to write like you would talk, mastering the flow of other peoples dialog wont be far behind.

Write like you talk.

I have often suggested to authors I wear my Editor hat for, that they listen to conversation around them then go and write the exact words they hear.

Some authors have let me know in no uncertain terms that it's not a great idea to write every single word down. Their reasons mainly being we humans use too many 'Umms' and 'Ahhhs' in our spoken language.

I've seriously sat and written conversations other people have been having next to me (whilst trying to hide behind plants and things ), and frankly, it's been rare to hear the 'Umm' and 'Ahh' so abhorred.

One thing that became very clear was the amount of slang my teenage kids and their friends use. Often there are half a dozen kids in my house, and I'd be very hard put to find one complete sentence from any of them that did not include slang.

I've not tried writing teenage dialogue, I wonder how it'd come across on paper.

LunarSolstice:

Personally what I like to do, is give the "s amiss, and add dialog as part of the story. As in: so she asked me if I had ever done anything like this before, which to me flows a lot smother than: She asked, "blah blah blah."

Click to expand...

Having seen your writing in the 'exercise' thread, I know what you mean when you write in this way. It comes across as very conversational, I happen to enjoy reading it. If I were you, I wouldn't shy completely away from trying the more conventional type of dialogue though. Think of it as another skill to add to your suitcase

AlexDeKok; sorry I took so long to get back. I wasn't blaming you for using adverbs, I was just commenting on them. Many authors use them, (me included) and it seems like they're standard issue when writing dialogue.

It's either something that has been instilled into our braincells from schooling, or it's a natural combination. I know for myself, I have to consciously force myself to get rid of as many as I can.

I've been listening to audio tapes in my car whilst driving, man the amount of adverbs famous authors use really amazes me. And they all seem to be frequently ( ) using them in conjunction with dialogue.

Dialogue. I love it. Like another poster to this discussion,
I've written a couple of stories which have dialogue
*only.* I think of those as more exercises than real
stories, but it shows how dialogue can reveal characters,
situations, etc.
Attribution:
As a rule, Bob said, Jeanette asked, etc. are great; I use
them too rarely, sometimes I go back and put them in. (I
know who is talking, but the reader doesn't necessarily.)
He shouted, he snickered, etc. Avoid these, unless you're
deliberately writing "Tom Swifties." ("Have a candy bar,"
he snickered.") You can't grin a coherent sentence.
('"I see what you mean." John grinned.' rather than '"I see what you
mean," John grinned.')
Adverbs modifying "he said" are pretty general no-nos.

1: "So, what do you think about dialogue?"
N: "I don't think nothin' bout no stinkin dialogue."
1: "Well, you're no help. Okay, TWO what do you think about dialogue?"
2: "I think we could be discussing something a tad more relevant than dialogue."
1: "Don't be like that. I just wanted to know your thoughts about it."
N: "The characters open their mouth. What comes out is dialogue."
1: "But.. Killer gave us a list of questions." *points to screen* "See, it's more than that!"
2: "Of all the things to fixate on. Leave the conversations about narrative to the writers."
1: "Attributives! What do you think about them?"
N: "Whats?"
1: "Attributives."
N: "I know what you – What ARE they?"
1: "They're.."
2: "Exposition that attributes the dialogue to a specific character."
1: "He said, she said, that sort of stuff."
N: "What about them?"
1: "Give me a second." *scrolls up* "What's your take on these? How do you get around using them?"
N: "Take?"
1: "Do you like them?"
N: "I don't know – yes. Yes, I like them. Is that –"
1: "How do you get around using them?"
2: *sighs*
N: "Why would I want to get around using them?"
1: "Stop being a bitch."
2: "This is stupid… She doesn't even know what the word means."
N: "Tell me and I'll know."
1: "If you don't want to add anything, read your book. Or, surf the internet. No one asked you!"
N: "You asked him."
2: "I'm just saying that of all the things your could talk about why does it have to be something so insignificant?"
N: "And I fade into the background."
1: "Shut up already! I don't care about your opinion."
2: "If I have to sit here and listen to you two have a conversation about 'dialogue', I'm allowed to comment."
1: "Why don't you just leave then?"
2: "I can't, we're in the same head. Even if I walked a block away there's no space between us."
1: "Then, I'll leave." *stands up*
N: "Don't be like that."
1: "Thank you for trying to answer my questions." *walks to the door, opens it, tosses 2 a glare, and exits*

wildsweetone said:

Write like you talk.

I have often suggested to authors I wear my Editor hat for, that they listen to conversation around them then go and write the exact words they hear.

Some authors have let me know in no uncertain terms that it's not a great idea to write every single word down. Their reasons mainly being we humans use too many 'Umms' and 'Ahhhs' in our spoken language.

I've seriously sat and written conversations other people have been having next to me (whilst trying to hide behind plants and things ), and frankly, it's been rare to hear the 'Umm' and 'Ahh' so abhorred.

One thing that became very clear was the amount of slang my teenage kids and their friends use. Often there are half a dozen kids in my house, and I'd be very hard put to find one complete sentence from any of them that did not include slang.

I've not tried writing teenage dialogue, I wonder how it'd come across on paper.

LunarSolstice:


Having seen your writing in the 'exercise' thread, I know what you mean when you write in this way. It comes across as very conversational, I happen to enjoy reading it. If I were you, I wouldn't shy completely away from trying the more conventional type of dialogue though. Think of it as another skill to add to your suitcase

AlexDeKok; sorry I took so long to get back. I wasn't blaming you for using adverbs, I was just commenting on them. Many authors use them, (me included) and it seems like they're standard issue when writing dialogue.

It's either something that has been instilled into our braincells from schooling, or it's a natural combination. I know for myself, I have to consciously force myself to get rid of as many as I can.

I've been listening to audio tapes in my car whilst driving, man the amount of adverbs famous authors use really amazes me. And they all seem to be frequently ( ) using them in conjunction with dialogue.

Click to expand...

No Offence meant.

You definately have more editor insticts than author. Good Authors tend to write more like philosophical jounalists with a major in life. Simple, no BS, decriptive, and sometimes radical, sometimes deep, Always...The way life is.

lustforlife74 said:

No Offence meant.

You definately have more editor insticts than author. Good Authors tend to write more like philosophical jounalists with a major in life. Simple, no BS, decriptive, and sometimes radical, sometimes deep, Always...The way life is.

Click to expand...

no offense taken lustforlife. please help me to learn more though. can you explain your comments above in another way?

Personally I use dialog to convey alot of the character's personality. I think the description words are the hardest for me, he said she said is rather boring after all ...

Some stories I use very little dialog but some (ones with more plot) are much more based on dialog moving the story.

What I tend to do it papper paragraphs with things like
***
He nodded and smiled, "So people tell me."
****
It doesn't -say- he said, but I think we all know he said. I mean its a paragraph about him doing stuff and then dialog.

I don't know if thats good or bad, but I tend to have dialog mixed amoungst action, as a character is doing something they are talking.

Let me grab a 2 paragraph chunck

*****

Her eyes flickered open and she seemed momentarily confused, "Oh, Oh!" She quickly sat up, "I am so sorry, I must just be very tired from …"

He smiled and cut of her apology, "It's quite alright. We should have realized your travel would have been tiring. Let me show you up to the spare room. I already brought your carry on up there."

*****

I honestly don't know if this is a good styl or bad style, but it daoes save me from modifying the few speak verbs there are. she said breathlessly, she whispers, she uttered, she moaned ... etc.

~Alex756
http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=177120
excerpts from ym story One Fall Semester break FYI

Re: Discussion: Dialogue

What is dialogue?

Two or more voices, as opposed to 'monologue', which is one.

How can dialogue be used to develop character?

Dialogue is the best and quickest way to show how one person interrelates with another - they're talking to each other, after all - and this not only forms part of that person's character, it reveals other sides of that person's character that may even be difficult to describe in straight prose.

Almost any character trait can express itself in the way one person speaks to another - bashful, dopey, grumpy, happy, sleepy, sneezy (That's enough dwarves - Ed.). These can all be shown in speech, using the imagination, in exactly the same way as an actor gets into a role via his or her lines.

How can dialogue be used to develop plot?

Dialogue is brilliant for revealing back-story in a way that can easily help to avoid cheesy flashbacks - one character tells another a little about their - or someone else's - past. Dialogue can be used to plant red herrings - characters discuss what they think is happening, which may or may not be the case. Dialogue can cut corners valuably and allow a writer to escape from writing long streams of prose - purely by characters summarising what's happened to them or saying what they're up to next.

Dialogue is the best place to perform conflict between characters, and of course conflict is a very common theme for plots to exploit. Arguments, seductions, conspiracies - they can all come out in dialogue, much quicker and more readably than in chunky descriptive paragraphs.

How do you use attributives to their best advantage (attributives are the words that tag the speech, "said" words)?

Don't over-use them, but don't under use them, and mix them up.

Over using them means putting, for example, 'he said' or 'she said' after every single line of dialogue. If only two people are talking, you just need to establish who says which line, then intermingle them, and every now and then remind the reader who is talking so that the reader can confirm where they are in the dialogue. If three or more people are involved, this will be more complex and will call for a lot more 'John said' and 'Jill said' tags.

Under-using can be an arty thing but is more usually annoying, because there are not sufficient tags for readers to know exactly who is speaking at any one time.

Then although it's usually fine to use 'said' a lot, it's good to put in other words every now and then. It can look silly if you obsessively seek to avoid using 'said' more than once in a story. But it's good to put in 'explained' or 'murmured' or 'grumbled' or 'yelled' and so on, every now and then.

When you say things like: "No!" he obfuscated. you know you've gone too far.

How do you use dialogue combined with action?

Dialogue is great to break up action to help the reader get through it. Huge long chunky paragraphs without dialogue slows down the pace. Dialogue used correctly can make the action sequences seem all the more dramatic, pacy and exciting.

The right balance is best, and this varies from story to story and scene to scene. Remember a long paragraph of description breaks up a string of dialogue, so it makes sense to finish a thread of dialogue before going onto the next bit of long description.

What do you consider "good" use of dialogue? "Bad" use?

Good use of dialogue is a balanced amount with the description/action, and lines that sound natural, that you could imagine the characters actually saying. If you read aloud your line of dialogue and it doesn't sound like anyone would ever say it's badly written. You have to imagine that if you were that character in that situation with that idea you need to convey to someone else, what exactly would come out of your mouth?

Really good dialogue flows nicely, conveys character and holds the reader's interest. If there's a lot of dialogue going on, I like to remember that usually, human beings are thinking about at least two or three different things at once, and this could influence what they say.

So if someone is talking about some girl they met the other night to a friend in a restaurant, they're not only thinking about that girl, what happened the previous night and what might happen the next night, remember that they will also be thinking about the food they are eating in the restaurant, the waitress who has a really disgusting zit on her cheek and their god damned boss at work who has really being laying it on thick.

What is dialogue?

A conversation between two or more of the characters in your writing.

How can dialogue be used to develop character?

You can use dialogue to to let us know where the character is from. You don't expect someone from from France to say "Y'all come on out here and have a gander at that!"

Characteristics can be shown through speech mannerisms:
Shyness - "I, I, I was just w-wondering.." he gulped, silently cursing his stutter. With a deep breath John contined, "I was just wondering if you'd like a d-drink?"
Rudeness - He growled at the new serving girl, "Bring it to me, wench! Move your skanky ass when I speak!"

How can dialogue be used to develop plot?

My characters foreshadow: " She hung her head, resigned, as he said, "You must have a lot on your mind. You forgot to turn off the cruise about a mile ago. I clocked you goin' 70 in a 45 zone. This is gonna be a substantial fine.""

Occassionally, they help tell the story: " She saw a smile tugging at his lips as her eyes passed over his mouth. She looked, nervously into his eyes. "Look, I can't afford a big ticket. It was stupid of me not to be paying attention to the signs, but I can honestly say I didn't see it. How can I convince you not to write me up?" Her pulse raced faster than the car had just moments ago. "

How do you use attributives to their best advantage (attributives are the words that tag the speech, "said" words)?
Attributives can help the reader 'HEAR' the conversation.
Imagine:
"I won't!"
"I'd like you to."
You don't know the tone of this conversation or even who's speaking.
Now imagine:
"I won't!" Joey pouted.
"I'd like you to." his mother murmured disarmingly.

How do you use dialogue combined with action?

" She arched her back, pressing her breast into his mouth. She struggled against the cuffs holding her arms behind her. "Please! I want to touch you too!" she pleaded, exclaiming as he nipped harder on her breast.

Pausing to look at her, "I told you to be quiet!" He spun her around and rudely hauled her shorts down. "Oh baby. Such a sweet ass." She felt him massage her buttocks. "

How do you use dialogue combined with description?

" She felt pinned to the mattress by the heat of his gaze. His desire plainly announced by the tent in his boxers. "Watch, Carrie. Look at what you want to see, baby!" He slipped them off, only briefly snagging on his erection. When he straightened she slipped backwards in surprise.

"Oh God! You told me! I know, but oh my! Jimmy!"

"Shut up, Carrie!" he was almost blushing,"You did know!"

Not once was the word 'large' stated in that exchange, but you were left with no doubt that he is, in fact, a little above average.

What do you consider "good" use of dialogue? "Bad" use?

Dialogue works when you can insert it into the story naturally.
It's a bad idea to use it when the characters aren't saying anything, such as:
"Yes!" she insisted.
"No!" he countered.
"Yes!"
"No!"
"Yes!"
"No!"
Repetition could have been avoided by saying:
"Yes!" she insisted. She was just as positive as he was negative. Their argument continued.

Attributives. What's your take on these? How do you get around using them?

I use them as much as I can without making my story sound like a "he said, she said" sort of litany. Here's a dialogue where sometimes I use them directly and others I don't use them at all.

" The window floated down and she made certain the cop could see her hands on the steering wheel. He came up to the side of the car.

"Alberta, Canada."

She swallowed and her voice cracked, "Yes, I'm from Alberta."

She hung her head, resigned, as he said, "You must have a lot on your mind. You forgot to turn off the cruise about a mile ago. I clocked you goin' 70 in a 45 zone. This is gonna be a substantial fine." "


If you'd like to read the stories I sampled from click the links:
Speeding
Meeting Jimmy

Technical matters before I tackle the bigger questions.

Neutral attributives

I agree with many who've written above. An attributive every three or four speeches, because your readers can't hear the voices or see the mouths moving the way you can. 'Said' is unnoticeable at that rate. Alternate 'said Mary' and 'Mary said', if that's all you need to say.

The most basic words for other speech acts are also largely unnoticeable: 'he answered', 'asked John'. The more distinctive the meaning, the harder it is to justify it as an attributive: 'she chuckled' sticks out where 'she laughed' doesn't.

Qualifiers

I keep wondering whether my use of adverbs and prepositional phrases is a tic, or whether I'm getting it right: 'he said sternly', 'she answered with a laugh'. Perhaps a simple rule of thumb is to avoid them if the speech content can convey the qualification.

'Well, who's a lucky little bunny now?' he said teasingly.
'Well, who's a lucky little bunny now?' he said quietly.

Omit 'teasingly'. If you just had 'he said', the speech would be read teasingly anyway. But it wouldn't occur to the reader that it was quietly, so that one's wanted.

Don't

Don't get the verb's syntax wrong: you can question a policy, you can question a suspect, but you can't question 'Do you still love me?'.

Don't mix speakers in the one paragraph no matter how much your grammar in between has shifted the subject:

He arose and held out his hand, asking, 'Do you still want to do this?'. His eyes raked her, and she felt the intensity of his gaze. She had not decided what she would do, or how she would feel if she continued this way, so with shaky voice she answered, 'I'm sorry, I really don't know, tomorrow perhaps.'

This primrose path leads to:

'Do you still want to?' he asked, making her look up. She studied his face for an answer. 'Tomorrow perhaps.'

Re: Discussion: Dialogue

Now that folks who know what they're talking about have had their turn, I'll shamelessly reveal how little I know about, Dialogue.

RF

--

What is dialogue?
RF: Communication, usually verbal, between two or more characters.

How can dialogue be used to develop character?
RF: The easiest is to have the characters discuss their feelings or experiences.

How can dialogue be used to develop plot?
RF: Essentially the same as with developing character, except the focus of the conversation is on issues concerning the plot.

How do you use attributives to their best advantage (attributives are the words that tag the speech, "said" words)?
RF: Sparingly. Stick to "he said" and "she said" unless the temptation to do otherwise is overwhelming. And try to avoid what Stephen King calls, Tom Swifties. "Here's the light bulb," said Tom, brightly.

How do you use dialogue combined with action?
RF: Carefully. Some scenes demand straight dialogue, others benefit from having bits of action worked in. IMHO, there is no hard and fast rule.

How do you use dialogue combined with description?
RF: See below.

What do you consider "good" use of dialogue? "Bad" use?
RF: The classic bad use of dialogue is for an info dump. If I notice the dialogue, odds are it's probably not good. If it's written by Elmore Leonard, it's great.

Attributives.

What's your take on these?
RF: Use sparingly and when in doubt, stick to "he/she said"

How do you get around using them?
RF: With only two characters, it's fairly simple. The trick is when you have three or more characters talking.

--

And now to prove I don't know what I'm talking about, here's a two character scene from my first (unpub) novel.

Ann's Story

"It's just not fair."

From the tone of her friend's voice, Gwen knew Ann was only half-joking. "What's not fair?"

They were in Gwen's dorm room, preparing a supper feast of tuna fish au gratin on rye toast. "It's not fair that you actually met a good-looking single guy under ninety on that geriatric unit disguised as an ophthalmology ward," replied Ann, as she opened a large can of tuna fish.

"And while you're making out with this guy,” she continued, "I'm stuck on a unit with a bunch of old farts who can't pee, and jive doctors who keep coming on to me."

"Don't exaggerate," said Gwen, as she carefully placed slices of rye bread in the combination toaster/broiler which was a fixture of her room. "He kissed me, once, that’s all. I promise you we haven't been 'making out.'" She was beginning to wish she hadn’t told Ann about that afternoon’s kiss.

"Of course you haven't been." There was blatant skepticism in Ann's voice. "We all know making out with a patient would be incredibly unprofessional, especially for a lowly nursing student. Just tell me this, will you go back to see him?"

"We’re just summer-relief Nurse Techs, remember? Maybe you set your own schedule, but I sure don’t. So if I'm assigned to his room, I’ll go back."

"And you're always assigned to his room, right?"

"Well, okay, I usually am," conceded Gwen. She pulled out the toast and began to spread on mayonnaise.

"Which means you'll be going back. And when you do go back, you two will end up kissing again.”

Gwen tried to ignore the tiny quiver in her stomach. The problem was, her friend might be right. At the moment however, Ann's logic was not what she wanted to consider so she changed the subject. "What's wrong with those doctors who keep making passes at you? Are they married or creeps or what?"

"Oh, they're no creepier than most other doctors, I suppose," said Ann, as she piled tuna fish on two pieces of rye toast. "And I think one is single. The problem is, they're all white. And you know how I feel about dating white guys."

After she placed cheese slices on top of the tuna, Gwen shoved the concoction back in the toaster oven and then gave her black friend a concerned look. "You've mentioned that before, about not dating white guys, but you've never said why. I mean it's none of my business. But Robin, Sue, and I are white; and we're your friends, aren't we?"

"True, but the last time I checked, I'm not dating any of you. Although with the luck I've been having with dudes lately, you're beginning to look better and better, child," said Ann, giving Gwen a lascivious grin.

"Get away from me, you deviant." Gwen laughed and waved a mayonnaise covered dinner knife in Ann's direction. "My mama warned me about girls like you."

--

Re: Re: Hi kid

wildsweetone said:

I try not to use 'said....' I find it boring to write (though not always boring to read).

Click to expand...

..is cut out of context I know, but bear with me.

I used to avoid using attributes whenever possible, and when I did I hardly ever used 'said'. Then I read a book by an author and editor I admired and he said that when you do attribute, don't use any other word than said unless you really need to. He said the biggest mistake otherwise good new writers make is to want to use a different attribute word every time.

Asked, replied, begged, pleaded, countered, riposted... He said it ended up being a game, guessing what the next one would be and that it detracted from the story. He also said that good authors use 'said' a lot, and no-one ever notices it.

I didn't believe him, and checked it out myself. One of my favourite authors uses the word seven times on one page. I'd simply never noticed it before.

Like so much I had to re-learn later this is in direct opposition to what they taught me at school (and what they still teach in schools). I humbly offer it here as the best piece of writing advice I ever found.