Good vs Bad first person writing

A lot depends on the type of story you are trying to write.

If you want to have multiple view points of different characters or show what other characters are doing that cannot be seen by the main character then third person is the best perspective. You can write multiple characters in first person, but the risk of being boring and repetitive is quite high, and it can also be confusing if switching back and forth.

The only story I have written in first person is a fat girl fetish series called 'My Best Friend's Crazy Fat Sister'. The first person perspective worked well as it had a small cast of four main characters who each represent the four personality types - melancholic, sanguine, choleric and phlegmatic. I wrote from the perspective of the main male character who is the melancholic personality type, as a main part of the story is how he struggles with his bizarre fetishes over his friend's insane fat sister. There was no need to go inside the minds of the crazy fat girl (the sanguine character), her long suffering brother (the phlegmatic character) or the brother's short-tempered wife (the choleric character), so first person was the best choice here.

Contrast this with my story 'Bridget the Bossy Bridezilla', which is a series of interwoven stories that come together by one specific event at the end. Third person was the only practical perspective for this.

But whether you decide to your story works better in first or third person, second person perspective is best avoided.

Cool to see that people are still noticing this thread. Thanks.


Here's an update.
I am about one third through my first FP project. I started two days ago so it will probably take me about a week by the time I have it to a satisfactory state to share.

Unfortunately its not a very nice story. I would have liked to start with something nice but this one wasn't going to wait in line.

XXOOXX

Uggg

I just finished writing a novella in the third person, and had trouble with slipping into the first person when I'd left off writing and came back to it.

Ah, this old question. Here's my abbreviated take on POV: persona and tense, in Anglish narratives. Those are generalities and may be disregarded as desired.

* Past tense: Simplest, most straightforward. This happened, then that. Oy.
* Present tense: Usually implies either doom, fast action, or mindlessness.
* Future tense: Oh please, do NOT tell me only what is ABOUT to happen.

* 1st person: Most intimate, most able to hide action and details as needed.
* 2nd person: As with present tense, works best in poetic song, not narrative.
* 3rd person: Most flexible and can also get into heads almost as well as 1st.

First person, present tense: "I see the white puff of smoke from the rifle / I feel the bullet go deep in my chest." Yeah, doom. 1st-present works with plane crashes too, as long as you're fucking on the way down.

First person, future tense: I will creep into your bed while you snore softly. You will twitch and squirm when I start licking you. Your screams will arouse the jealous neighbors. Yeah, right.

Second person, future tense: Same as 1st person but without 'I'.

Third-person, past tense -- limited perspective: Like an expanded 1st-past POV. The reader knows what the main character knows, and not much more.

Third-person, past tense -- onmiscient perspective: Reader knows everything the author WANTS them to know. Author can easily shift between characters.

As an exercise, try writing the same story from all possible POVs. Have fun.

RetroFan said:

If you want to have multiple view points of different characters or show what other characters are doing that cannot be seen by the main character then third person is the best perspective.

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There are many interesting, fun, and challenging ways around this. Most require a writer who’s skilled at writing dialogue.

Dialogue is a weakness here at Lit, but then it’s a weakness in mainstream fiction as well.

Voboy said:

There are many interesting, fun, and challenging ways around this. Most require a writer who’s skilled at writing dialogue.

Dialogue is a weakness here at Lit, but then it’s a weakness in mainstream fiction as well.

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Yup, I have some strong personal preferences around dialogue. I prefer not to write 'he said,' 'she said,' 'said Jane' type dialogue. I much prefer to introduce the first speaker and have context inform the reader of who spoke next. Obviously this doesn't work so well for long conversations or conversations between larger groups of characters. In those situations I might try something like, 'Doug paused for thought before he replied,' to keep the reader on track.

Extended dialogue sections are probably what I go back and rewrite the most.

There isn't much dialogue in the short story I'm writing at the moment as the bulk of it occurs in a dorm environment where the protagonists need to be discreet.

My last big project took me a year to finish and my main headache was that I had some characters with unique colloquialisms. Keeping that all consistent was a nightmare.

XXOOXX

Uggg

Hypoxia said:

Ah, this old question. Here's my abbreviated take on POV: persona and tense, in Anglish narratives. Those are generalities and may be disregarded as desired.

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A good summary, Hypoxia

electricblue66 said:

A good summary, Hypoxia

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I thought so too.

XXOOXX

Uggg

Uggg said:

I thought so too.

XXOOXX

Uggg

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Thanx y'all! I should mention that any POV can work as a gimmick. Maybe a short gimmick. Embed a bit of 2nd-future into a 1st- or 3rd-past narrative. Or just diddle with extreme POVs, try to make them work.

Note that my comments deal with Anglish narrative. Other text forms exist, with their own characteristics. Songs and lyric poetry may use any of the personae and tenses. Technical writing may use NO such POV -- I call that 0th person. We can also skip between POVs but beware dizzified readers.

Hypoxia said:

Thanx y'all! I should mention that any POV can work as a gimmick. Maybe a short gimmick. Embed a bit of 2nd-future into a 1st- or 3rd-past narrative. Or just diddle with extreme POVs, try to make them work.

Note that my comments deal with Anglish narrative. Other text forms exist, with their own characteristics. Songs and lyric poetry may use any of the personae and tenses. Technical writing may use NO such POV -- I call that 0th person. We can also skip between POVs but beware dizzified readers.

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Wouldn't most tech writing be second person (you is implied subject) imperative?

1. (You) Insert penis in vagina.
2. Pump vigorously.
3. Check periodically for viscous discharge.

Caution
Stop process if smoke is visible.

4. Repeat as needed.

Note
Squealing noises are considered normal, though may be caused by insufficient lubrication.

rj

rjordan said:

Wouldn't most tech writing be second person (you is implied subject) imperative?

1. (You) Insert penis in vagina.
2. Pump vigorously.
3. Check periodically for viscous discharge.

Caution
Stop process if smoke is visible.

4. Repeat as needed.

Note
Squealing noises are considered normal, though may be caused by insufficient lubrication.

rj

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No, because the instruction is being given by a narrator--so, it's first person in the voice of the narrator. A common misconception of what second person is. In second person, all perception is in the mind of the "you," not an "I." If the manual were in second person, it would be unnecessary. The "you" would already know how to do everything being instructed.

Voboy said:

There are many interesting, fun, and challenging ways around this. Most require a writer who’s skilled at writing dialogue.

Dialogue is a weakness here at Lit, but then it’s a weakness in mainstream fiction as well.

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I see your point, but what if you want your audience to see something that your main character can't?

For example, say you wrote about a couple aged in their mid 40s who have lost interest in sex with each other, that is mainly from the wife's (slim and attractive cougar type) perspective. She knows that she has lost interest in sex because she has a secret fetish about women, and is infatuated with a pretty 25-year-old woman in her team at the office. Her husband's lack of libido remains a mystery to her, and what she doesn't know is that he secretly has a fetish about fat girls Among other things he uses a mirror to up-skirt an overweight girl in his office; buys pornographic material involving BBW themes; and visits their university age daughter and her fat 19-year-old room-mate/friend, secretly getting his rocks off by going through the fat chick's laundry hamper and smelling her worn knickers.

How could you show the husband's antics to the audience with the wife remaining clueless if you wrote in first person from the wife's point of view?

RetroFan said:

I see your point, but what if you want your audience to see something that your main character can't?

For example, say you wrote about a couple aged in their mid 40s who have lost interest in sex with each other, that is mainly from the wife's (slim and attractive cougar type) perspective. She knows that she has lost interest in sex because she has a secret fetish about women, and is infatuated with a pretty 25-year-old woman in her team at the office. Her husband's lack of libido remains a mystery to her, and what she doesn't know is that he secretly has a fetish about fat girls Among other things he uses a mirror to up-skirt an overweight girl in his office; buys pornographic material involving BBW themes; and visits their university age daughter and her fat 19-year-old room-mate/friend, secretly getting his rocks off by going through the fat chick's laundry hamper and smelling her worn knickers.

How could you show the husband's antics to the audience with the wife remaining clueless if you wrote in first person from the wife's point of view?

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Fragmentarily.

His concerned boss, having heard about the mirror, calls to chat with hubby. Wife picks up and, while boss won’t divulge what the call is about, wife detects discomfort. So that’s a clue. Then some BBW porn arrives in the mail; she glimpses it when they’re both sorting the mail, but he shrugs and says it must be junk mail or sent to the wrong house, throws it away. Finally, the daughter finds daddy pawing through her roommate’s laundry, though he passes it off.

Then, your story becomes partly about her unraveling the clues.

Regardless, with respect, I don’t feel that’s a plot that lends itself to a successful FP story. Too many moving parts, and the whole thing would feel very contrived to me.

You’d be telling the wife’s story here, not the husband’s. That’s the key. It’s not about his antics, but her perceptions of his antics. If the narrator can’t see something clearly, then maybe the audience shouldn’t either.

I used to write exclusively in third person because I wanted to be able to express every character's perspective. But I've found that I really like first person because you have that intense personal connection, and can really explore emotions and thought processes. So I mainly write in first person these days, though I do have a few ongoing things that are in third person simply because it felt like the right point of view for that particular piece of writing.

Voboy said:

.....You’d be telling the wife’s story here, not the husband’s. That’s the key. It’s not about his antics, but her perceptions of his antics. If the narrator can’t see something clearly, then maybe the audience shouldn’t either.

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That's the key, it's all in the protagonists perception of what's happening and writing it do the audience can simultaneously believe what the protagonist is seeing and thinking and experiencing and at the same time see the underlying and perhaps completely different reality. I tried that with Strawberry chapter 4 and it was fun to write. Seemed to work too.

update

Thank you to everyone who has offered words of wisdom.

I have just submitted my first story for literotica and yes, it's first person.

I took heaps of your suggestions on board and I hope I've done the story justice.

I will post the link as soon as it's accepted and would love feedback [Gentle please, this is my first time ] if there is anyone still watching this thread.

Much love!

Uggg

Uggg said:

Thank you to everyone who has offered words of wisdom.

I have just submitted my first story for literotica and yes, it's first person.

I took heaps of your suggestions on board and I hope I've done the story justice.

I will post the link as soon as it's accepted and would love feedback [Gentle please, this is my first time ] if there is anyone still watching this thread.

Much love!

Uggg

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Start a new thread in this forum (Feedback) with a link to your story

http://forum.literotica.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1

electricblue66 said:

Start a new thread in this forum (Feedback) with a link to your story

http://forum.literotica.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1

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Thank you.

will do.

XXOOXX

Uggg

Well, I think I've done an ok job of it. If anyone is interested the link is in my signature.



Uggg

Uggg said:

Well, I think I've done an ok job of it. If anyone is interested the link is in my signature.



Uggg

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Good story. I liked it overall. The letter format kinda threw me a little but that's just me.

Sorry. Replied to the wrong thread.

Uggg said:

Often first person writing is terrible. It can be really hard to read and I think it's difficult for authors to make a story flow in that format.

However there have been occasional F.P. stories that really hooked me.
I've been trying to identify what it is that makes some F.P. really work.

I generally write in third person but would be interested in trying a collection of short stories based on role play I've participated in. Role play is often F.P. I would keep that element for my project.

I haven't posted any stories on Lit yet but I plan to and this project could be my first.

I have my own ideas about what makes bad F.P. I'm interested in other's opinions on what makes good first person.

Suggestions?

XXOOXX

Uggg

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Most people I know feel that 1st person is better for getting into the protagonist's feelings. It can cause problems if there are things happening outside his/her view that are pertinent to the story.

I read a story recently where there were three main characters, so it had to be written in third person.

Most people don't like switching between characters for 1st person, but it CAN work, especially if the change in POV is clearly delineated.

I'm not sure I've seen anyone really answer what seemed to be Uggg's initial question ("What makes for good first-person narrative?"), so I'll have a quick go at it. Two of my last three submissions have been in first-person (one present tense, one past tense), one made the category top list, and both earned the little red 'H', so, for what that's worth, this was my philosophy while working on them.

I think the main thing required for "good" first-person narration is the internal consistency of the narrator. In both of my stories I used only one perspective, but the advice is solid no matter how many different points of view you cycle through when writing. You're presenting the reader with one specific interpretation of the story's events, and that character is going to have his or her own outlook on things. You, as a writer, do not need to relay this person's every last thought and aside, just the ones pertaining to the story at hand, and this person should have a distinct voice formed by his or her experiences and backstory. Maintain that throughout and you're well on your way to success. You should have a good idea of your narrator's world view and what experiences (or lack thereof) formed that view. Even if you don't share all of these with the reader in the course of the story, making note of them and making sure your narrator doesn't "break character" until the point in the story where something needs to change so they can grow is a good way to help you maintain this consistency as a writer.

Personal example #1 - Colleen, the narrator of "Crash Into Me", is attracted to her younger sister, and has been for some time. She's aware of these feelings, but doesn't know what to do with them, and is terrified her someone will discover the truth. She's especially guilt-ridden because, in her mind, she's responsible for a car accident that injured her sister several years ago. To this end, she punishes herself, directly and indirectly, throughout the story in an attempt to atone for the mistake, even though it wasn't her fault and nothing she can do can make her younger sister whole again. Colleen maintains this attitude until the story requires her to grow beyond it, and it's the primary conflict she struggles with throughout. She almost never treats herself to nice things, and the few times she does result in feelings of guilt afterwards. She's pessimistic, living a life jammed in neutral, both unwilling and unable to drag herself out of the past, and this informs her narrative voice throughout the story. Having her wake up one morning, bound out of bed, and rush outside to greet the sunshine would destroy this internal consistency, as would plenty of other behaviors. Make sure your narrator behaves they way they should until circumstances of the story dictate a change, and you'll hurdle the most difficult obstacle involving this narrative style.

The main strength to first-person style is its immediacy and its intimacy. Nothing else lets you sit so purely in the (virtual) mind of your character like first-person, and first-person is your opportunity to share an entire worldview with your readers. Make sure you as the writer are always aware of what's happening around your narrator, and build your scenes accordingly. Don't just write what your narrator sees, write what they feel. They live in this world, even if they have very little control over it, so make sure they're tying things together in their own minds so readers can tie them together in theirs.

Personal Example #2 - The narrator of "The Story of Us" is Kara, an older sister home from college, who has planned a movie night with her younger sister Allison. Things don't exactly go as planned (this is a Literotica story, after all), and the two of them wind up in bed together for a little soft-core hanky-panky. Kara relates the story of the encounter, but intersperses it with her own opinions and asides, so she's not just reciting a litany of "this happened, then that happened, and then we...", she's placing the events into her own personal context and sharing that with the reader so that he or she can more fully visualize Kara's place in the world. The story's premise is flimsy, as Sammael Bard pointed out in his critique here on the forums, and at three pages it's not trying to be anything except what it is, but it got an 'H' anyway, so I must've done something right.

I hope this word salad at least made some sense, and hopefully answered your original question, Uggg.

Areala-chan said:

The main strength to first-person style is its immediacy and its intimacy. Nothing else lets you sit so purely in the (virtual) mind of your character like first-person, and first-person is your opportunity to share an entire worldview with your readers. Make sure you as the writer are always aware of what's happening around your narrator, and build your scenes accordingly. Don't just write what your narrator sees, write what they feel. They live in this world, even if they have very little control over it, so make sure they're tying things together in their own minds so readers can tie them together in theirs.

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Areala, that's a great analysis, and I wholeheartedly agree your key point, cited above. First person can be intensely intimate.

I recall an on-going discussion with a fellow writer about the pros and cons of first vs third person - she far preferred third - where she said, "good god, Blue, you get so close you're on the pillow, whereas I want to leave them alone and shut the door." For erotica, intimacy obviously works extremely well.