The Male Form:

Kimidoll, I wore a white suit for my wedding. Not ethnic, but I think a little different. I also like that you brought up kilts. Here is a picture of Sean Connery in a kilt: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/74/f9/a7/74f9a7b5710b38cbe76c4fd481d6da9a.jpg.

I didn’t know who Habaek from the Bride of the Water God is so I looked the name up and found this almost 5 minute long video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jjc5yRh-B0o
I like images of fantasies, but not always the stories. I appreciate the comment.

Moonlight and Roses,

Kimikimidoll said:

Yes, men are limited if we're sticking to western traditions of dressing. Think of the old Arabian styles, or Far Eastern robes, or even them kilts

A lot of men would wear ethnic, not-shirt-and-trousers clothes for their wedding. Again, it's how you pull off the dress. And of course, there's a time and place to wear everything.

Edit: On that note, here is Habaek from the Bride of the Water God:
https://starduste12.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/1a2.png

Yes, it's a drawing, but ooohhhh...

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Was Habaek standing on a stool or on stilts?

It's usually better to be able to move in your wedding suit.

sr71plt said:

Was Habaek standing on a stool or on stilts?

It's usually better to be able to move in your wedding suit.

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That's his warrior dress lol

You think that's excessive? Look at the protagonist:https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/72/49/6f/72496f0dc950c9d109ab47efcf60d2c1.jpg

There are some scenes when they're half naked in bed surrounded by kilometers of cloth and I wonder why, and then I recall, oh. That's just the top half of their clothes

Of course this is a fantasy manhaw, everything is exaggerated.

Kimikimidoll said:

That's his warrior dress lol

You think that's excessive? Look at the protagonist:https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/72/49/6f/72496f0dc950c9d109ab47efcf60d2c1.jpg

There are some scenes when they're half naked in bed surrounded by kilometers of cloth and I wonder why, and then I recall, oh. That's just the top half of their clothes

Of course this is a fantasy manhaw, everything is exaggerated.

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No, I'm saying he can't have legs long enough to move in such a contraption (and is a freak if he does have legs that long). If that's his warrior dress, he's losing his head (well, maybe the best they can do is lopping his legs off at the knees).

And, yes, Sean Connery looks great in a kilt.

sr71plt said:

No, I'm saying he can't have legs long enough to move in such a contraption (and is a freak if he does have legs that long). If that's his warrior dress, he's losing his head (well, maybe the best they can do is lopping his legs off at the knees).

And, yes, Sean Connery looks great in a kilt.

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Again, standards of beauty for men. In Asian communities, you'll have to be awkwardly tall, like Slenderman-type of build. Small facial features, fair, thin unsmiling lips, dark, straight hair...

Edit: Just saw the pic, I think Sean Connery would look great even if he was wearing a potato sack. Attitude! That's the thing!

Kimikimidoll said:

Again, standards of beauty for men. In Asian communities, you'll have to be awkwardly tall, like Slenderman-type of build. Small facial features, fair, thin unsmiling lips, dark, straight hair...

Edit: Just saw the pic, I think Sean Connery would look great even if he was wearing a potato sack. Attitude! That's the thing!

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You don't have to be weirdly out of proportion to be beautiful anywhere.

The pic of Sean Connery doesn't really get what's sexy about kilts. It doesn't show bare legs at the knees, which gets the imagination going on how much under the kilt is bare as well. And Connery has great, manly legs too.

sr71plt said:

You don't have to be weirdly out of proportion to be beautiful anywhere.

The pic of Sean Connery doesn't really get what's sexy about kilts. It doesn't show bear legs at the knees, which gets the imagination going on how much under the kilt is bare as well. And Connery has great, manly legs too.

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It should be that, yes.

When I was small (about 10) I read in a magazine about a procedure some girls did in order to have longer legs. They would get them broken, then use a sort of external fixation device so the bone would grow in between.

The first thing my brain thought (as a 10 year old) was- I need this done. My legs are too short.
Now thinking back, I know it's a bit sick, but I look at my legs now, and a little voice from the back of my head goes, 'My thighs look longer than my legs. Maybe I should get them lengthened.'

Anyway, got any more sexy kilt pics?

MoonlightandRoses said:

Holliday, I’m glad you responded. When I go to the ballet I am surrounded mostly by women and girls. Sometimes the girls are dressed in tutus. Maybe you could go with women friends or take children with you. With the holidays coming up there generally would be “The Nutcracker,” which usually has many children dancing in it. I like the three Tchaikovsky ballets – “Swan Lake,” “The Sleeping Beauty” and “The Nutcracker.” There are two different endings to “Swan Lake.”

I have an interest in the history of fashion and one of my favorite periods is the Regency or Empire periods (c. 1790 to 1820), partly because my favorite author is Jane Austin. Here is a picture of Mr. Darcy (Colin Firth) in something like a suit of that time: https://regencygentleman.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/colin-firth-mr-darcy-pride-and-prejudice.jpg. As to uniforms here is a picture of Mr. Wickham https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/fe/9a/41/fe9a41b059c400ac99b929d79a1be486.jpg. I like that clothes for men were not so drab then.

Thanks for the smile and the wink.

Moonlight and Roses,

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MR: Where I live there are no ballets within an easy driving distance. I've seen two of thel three ballets you mentioned on film, just never at live performances. Where I grew up as well as where I spent my early adult years, the opera and ballet did not exist, and still doesn't even today. But, I guess I should add them to my bucket list. It's short, so I won't need an extra sheet of paper. LOL

I really enjoyed the photos. Sean Connery is just mouth-watering no matter what he wears, but I do love him in the kilt! The period fashions are also lovely. It made me do a bit of male fashion window shopping this morning and I discovered more than a few photos of the outrageous and brilliant Mr. Steven Tyler in some of his public clothing. When he first began his career with Aerosmith, he came up with the idea of buying second-hand clothing to piece together the band's stage costumes. While that has changed, I'm sure, he still designs his own wardrobe! Some of the photos I discovered online were amazingly ingenious.
http://eskipaper.com/steven-tyler-9.html#gal_post_65115_steven-tyler-9.jpg

While his style is far from simplistic, he uses accessories like hats, scarves, ties, women's sheer blouses, vests and jewelry to create a bit of a mess! And, yet, he pulls it off as tastefully unique and oh, so sexy! I wouldn't consider his style elegant, more outrageous than anything, and yet, there is an air of elegance about the man, not the performer.
I really enjoyed looking at some period fashions from 1780-1880. And, you are right! It seems men did have many other options back in the day for dress attire. Suits seem to be a 20th century thing that has "stuck"! Now, while I do love some of the old styles, I have to say that maybe the reason men's fashion dropped so many of the layers of clothing is a convenience issue. Can you imagine trying to put on stockings, girdles, underpants, vests, etc. and make it anywhere on time in today's fast paced world?
So, putting fashion aside for a moment, unlike some people, I find the male physique in it's naked form to be completely beautiful. As an artist, a woman's curves are more difficult for me to duplicate than the more angular design of the male torso. If you (generally speaking) think the male form is not beautiful, take a look at the Roman and Greek statues. The statue of David is a perfect example. I hear men saying how women's bodies are so beautiful, but I have very often found myself completely immersed in the beauty of a man's erection. It makes you wonder how something can feel so smooth and velvety, yet be so resilient and maintain a facade of such strength and firmness. I can lose myself for hours in trying to convey that sense in a drawing. I totally agree with you that both male and female forms are equally beautiful. People get so caught up in the rush to have sex that they seldom stop to truly examine and appreciate that. (I say that because in society the initiation of sexual intercourse is usually the only time we can freely observe the naked form.) I think I talk too much sometimes. Hope everyone is having a great day.
BTW, MR...thank you for correcting the spelling of Holliday to include the extra 'L'. It was taken from John Henry Holliday (Doc Holliday) when I was doing some research on him. Most people think I just don't know how to spell! LOL

Kimidoll, I don’t know if they’re “sexy,” but here are “40 Shirtless Guys in Kilts” posted by Melanie Poloff: https://www.buzzfeed.com/melaniepol...-in-kilts-dhod?utm_term=.ko82y660w#.yoM0ZAARO

As to your picture of Habaek from the Bride of the Water God you are exactly right. It is a fantasy. Fantasies are not about realism and as you wrote everything is exaggerated. I want things to be exaggerated and unrealistic in fantasy. In ballet everything is exaggerated and that is one thing I like about it and to me ballet is fantasy.

In regard to what you wrote about your legs. It is not sick, but it is also something that you may not want to do. Once you have all the information listen only to yourself. When I look at a person I look at the entire person. To me it is the overall impression that strikes me. And it is not logical. Beauty or attractiveness is in the eyes of the beholder. When I was young I meet a woman who I felt to be beautiful. She told me that most people thought her sister was more beautiful, but to me her sister was attractive, but not someone that I would call beautiful. Sometimes people talk as if someone is objectively beautiful or not attractive. If done enough this, I believe, could have an effect on others perception of what is beautiful. Thank again for your comments.

Tom,

Holliday, nice long comment thanks. I have a number of recordings of ballet that I watch now and again. While live is special there is some attractions to recordings. The view is right up close and I can skip around and watch my favorite parts.

I very much agree with you in regard to your last paragraph. Michelangelo’s David is one of my favorite works of art. I remember reading an art history book and was very much impressed and excited by the photos of the Greek male nudes. What I particularly like about them is that there is no shame in them. There are no mysterious stray bits of clothe or a stray fig leaf to censor the image. They are completely naked and that is fine. I like the human form whether female or male and whether dressed or undressed and of different body types, but made this topic about the male form because I feel there is a bias against it in our culture, a bias that is not natural to humans. As to erections I think the penis and testis are very interesting in regard to their parts and how the penis changes. If I didn’t have one I can imagine myself wanting to see them if for no other reason than this interest. You are an artist. I feel the nature of being that would make you particular attuned to the variation in body types. My enjoyment of looking at the human form adds to my enjoyment of art and dance, even though I am neither an artist nor a dancer. I feel that there is an increasing appreciation of the male nude in our culture and I plan to write about that in the future. Also I like you mentioning Steven Tyler and would like if more people gave examples of men that they feel are attractive.

Tom,

Holliday, after I posted my reply to you I continued to think about male fashion of the 19th century and that got me thinking about Steampunk fashions. Here are links to two Pinterest sites dealing with Steampunk: https://www.pinterest.com/albelop/steampunk-and-victorian-era-fashion/ and https://www.pinterest.com/aguifar/steampunk/. You may have to join pinterest to see all of the images.

Tom,

MoonlightandRoses said:

Holliday, after I posted my reply to you I continued to think about male fashion of the 19th century and that got me thinking about Steampunk fashions. Here are links to two Pinterest sites dealing with Steampunk: https://www.pinterest.com/albelop/steampunk-and-victorian-era-fashion/ and https://www.pinterest.com/aguifar/steampunk/. You may have to join pinterest to see all of the images.

Tom,

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Again, Thank you, Tom, for the links. I found them much to my tastes. I also keep hoping a few of the more cultured members will come forward with comments and examples. I'd love to hear more from the earlier posters on this thread. (Some made only one comment and disappeared! How disappointing!)
Prompted by our discussion of nudity in sculptures, I read a little on the topic of nudity today. What I found surprised me. I'm sure others know/knew this but I did not. The discouragement of public nudity which began during the Victorian era extended to post WWII in Japan (tying into the discussion of eastern fashions earlier in the thread). It was American influence in occupied Japan that ended the acceptance of nudity there. Further, in the US, it was as recent as the 1950's that nudity was made illegal here. Russia by comparison had laws against it that were strictly enforced during the Stalin regime. Ancient Rome, compared to Greece accepted female nudity of breasts, but discouraged male nudity. History would indicate that it was the influence of Catholicism that directly swayed public opinion to repress any appreciation of the human body.
I find it also interesting that while eastern cultures still accept nudity in pre-pubescent children, American culture has forbidden it in all forms, most especially commercial photography, beginning with the ban of the Coppertone billboards in the early 1960's. As recent as the 1980's, diaper commercials never depicted male nudes in advertising, finding female infants less offensive because their sexual organs were not as obvious. In ancient Greece, all children, but particularly males wore no clothing as a rule. Only married women covered their breasts. And adult males often went completely nude. The development of attitudes over the course of time is interesting to say the least. Which brings us back to fashions again.
I have seen recent photos of a trend where young men are now wearing skirts in public and it raises a question in my mind. Where I live, schools deal with female students harshly for violating dress codes or for the accidental wardrobe malfunction when a bra strap might become visible during classes. Officials consistently chastise the girls stating it arouses young men. The female students got up in arms over it just last year with the rebuttal that young men should have more self control than to allow themselves to become excited by a mere slip of a bra strap.
First, I question whether this is a prudent stand considering women's fashion styles in general don't seem to illicit such responses in public. And, second, should men's fashion shift to the acceptance of skirts or kilts, how will this be addressed in schools when a young man's skirt blows up in the wind revealing his underwear? (In the '80's all females who wore skirts to school here were REQUIRED to wear shorts under them, over their panties.) It seems in direct conflict with the female body being less offensive to the general public doesn't it? I feel like this is another case of rule makers speaking out of both sides of their mouths.

holliday1960 said:

As an artist, a woman's curves are more difficult for me to duplicate than the more angular design of the male torso.

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Holliday, now that's intriguing - earlier on I made the observation that I find a woman's curves wonderful to draw, because women are all curves (well, usually), and my gesture follows them as naturally as breathing. And now you the opposite, finding the planes and straight lines of a male torso so much easier to grasp.

I suspect your fascination with the erection, and how to capture it on paper, is equal to my fascination with the folds and colours and touch of a woman's sex; we try to capture what we don't have ourselves, perhaps.

I have a small piece here - https://www.literotica.com/s/in-the-morning-9 - which has a paragraph or two describing a cock shifting from flaccid to hard. A female reader commented that it was unusual to read that, most men writing erections straight away; whereas as a woman she loves to see the slow shift and change of a cock's movement as it grows from a small, curved, soft thing (there are those curves again) to a rigid, hot, hard thing, yet its skin still so soft to touch. Which is your fascination, too.

The same woman went on to say she loved the way I write my cock; well, it's the only one I know intimately, so if I don't revere it, I can hardly expect anyone else to! It's the second most erotic part of my body and my favourite part to look at. I wrote about Narcissus once, falling into the water - hmmm, I wonder why...

Jim Morrison was my "first" beautiful man, I think, in his "Greek god" days before booze killed the Lizard King - he later wrote/spoke "An Ode to my Cock", a celebration of himself.

holliday1960 said:

Again, Thank you, Tom, for the links. I found them much to my tastes. I also keep hoping a few of the more cultured members will come forward with comments and examples. I'd love to hear more from the earlier posters on this thread. (Some made only one comment and disappeared! How disappointing!).

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I doubt that you were talking about me, but I will add this. In our modern culture, physical beauty is traditionally irrelevant for men. A man is valued when he takes responsibility for interests greater than himself, especially his family. He defends them, he is capable, dependable and committed to their safety and well-being.

The standards and examples that have come up on this thread largely objectify men in the same way that men commonly objectify women. The standard of beauty is captured in the object and personal worth is irrelevant.

I guess equality is fair, but objectification of women is something that intellectuals have complained about for decades. Is it somehow better if you are objectifying men, or does it just drag us all down to the same level?

NotWise said:

I doubt that you were talking about me, but I will add this. In our modern culture, physical beauty is traditionally irrelevant for men. A man is valued when he takes responsibility for interests greater than himself, especially his family. He defends them, he is capable, dependable and committed to their safety and well-being.

The standards and examples that have come up on this thread largely objectify men in the same way that men commonly objectify women. The standard of beauty is captured in the object and personal worth is irrelevant.

I guess equality is fair, but objectification of women is something that intellectuals have complained about for decades. Is it somehow better if you are objectifying men, or does it just drag us all down to the same level?

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I think here OP was just talking about what about the physical appearance makes him 'beautiful'. Not so much about objectification.

In my head physical appearance is a combo of the actual physical features plus the attitude- how you carry yourself (how you sit, stand, walk etc, which is not related to personality). Good actors do it all the time: act like a weathered old man or a suave buisnessman, without changing clothes or face or the core personality of a character. It's not that we do not want to, but we just aren't in this discussion.

We call women beautiful more often than men. Sure, taken to extremes it leads to objectification but hey, on the other side, men aren't even being looked at all. Is that right? Shouldn't there be a balance? I think that is what MoonlightandRoses was trying to say. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

NotWise said:

I doubt that you were talking about me, but I will add this. In our modern culture, physical beauty is traditionally irrelevant for men. A man is valued when he takes responsibility for interests greater than himself, especially his family. He defends them, he is capable, dependable and committed to their safety and well-being.

The standards and examples that have come up on this thread largely objectify men in the same way that men commonly objectify women. The standard of beauty is captured in the object and personal worth is irrelevant.

I guess equality is fair, but objectification of women is something that intellectuals have complained about for decades. Is it somehow better if you are objectifying men, or does it just drag us all down to the same level?

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Of course I refer to you, Notwise. I refer to anyone who has an idea or opinion to contribute, especially with good manners (something found lacking on other boards), even if we can't agree. (Not saying I don't agree with you at all, as we have only scratched the surface of our opinions, so I am not in a position to be either in agreement or disagreement.) You say you feel the standards and examples objectify men and disregard personal worth? As I am sure you read, we were indeed referring to physical beauty, but that having been said, I believe I pointed out in my reference to Steven Tyler his brilliance as a creator and performer of the arts, as well has his elegance. Yes, he's sexy in my opinion. I stand by that. And as for the others, if I find them beautiful based only on their physical characteristics, does that indeed objectify them? Or, is it simply appreciation for their physical form? Intellectuals may point a finger at me, but I've never held with their theory and don't see that changing at this point in my life. As a woman, I do look at men more often than not as sexual beings. It's simply who I am. And, I feel most men will readily agree that they are sexual beings. I won't apologize for that any more than I would ask a man to apologize for looking at me with sexual interest or appreciation. When it happens, I've always done the polite thing and thanked them for the compliment. I've never been offended by it and I actually resent those intellectuals who try to speak on my behalf. As for equality, that's an entirely different matter and one that most people today would not appreciate my expressing here. And, what is your opinion on these matters? (You raise a point with a question, but I am not clear on your actual stand.) Thank you for adding to the conversation here. Maybe others will join us?

electricblue66 said:

Holliday, now that's intriguing - earlier on I made the observation that I find a woman's curves wonderful to draw, because women are all curves (well, usually), and my gesture follows them as naturally as breathing. And now you the opposite, finding the planes and straight lines of a male torso so much easier to grasp.

The same woman went on to say she loved the way I write my cock; well, it's the only one I know intimately, so if I don't revere it, I can hardly expect anyone else to! It's the second most erotic part of my body and my favourite part to look at. I wrote about Narcissus once, falling into the water - hmmm, I wonder why...

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I like drawing men. I love their hands, their elbows, shoulders, forehead -eyebrows even!- like I guess how a man would admire drawing about curves and lips and eyes I like drawing these parts (and admiring these parts in real life) of men. Haven't drawn a penis, and I doubt I'll ever get into an odd Jack-drawing-Rose scenario to get to draw one (vice versa actually, lol)

Didn't want to spam this thread with my posts actually but I'm curious- what's your most erotic part?
(Don't say brain. Come on. )

electricblue66 said:

Holliday, now that's intriguing - earlier on I made the observation that I find a woman's curves wonderful to draw, because women are all curves (well, usually), and my gesture follows them as naturally as breathing. And now you the opposite, finding the planes and straight lines of a male torso so much easier to grasp.

I suspect your fascination with the erection, and how to capture it on paper, is equal to my fascination with the folds and colours and touch of a woman's sex; we try to capture what we don't have ourselves, perhaps.

I have a small piece here - https://www.literotica.com/s/in-the-morning-9 - which has a paragraph or two describing a cock shifting from flaccid to hard.

Jim Morrison was my "first" beautiful man, I think, in his "Greek god" days before booze killed the Lizard King - he later wrote/spoke "An Ode to my Cock", a celebration of himself.

Click to expand...

Forgive me for manually editing your post to address these particular points. (I have not yet figured out how to use all the quotation features.) First, I agree it may have something to do with capturing what we do not ourselves possess. Second, Jim Morrison was definitely an oversight on my part! So lovely in form as well as in talent. So, again, agreed! And last, but not least, your shared link...Thank you for sharing such a beautiful expression of yourself. I was fascinated and feel you totally captured in words what an artist attempts to visually express.On a more personal level, it was as if you were inside my thoughts and speaking for me. It was wonderful! Truly wonderful.

Kimikimidoll said:

I like drawing men. I love their hands, their elbows, shoulders, forehead -eyebrows even!- like I guess how a man would admire drawing about curves and lips and eyes I like drawing these parts (and admiring these parts in real life) of men. Haven't drawn a penis, and I doubt I'll ever get into an odd Jack-drawing-Rose scenario to get to draw one (vice versa actually, lol)

Didn't want to spam this thread with my posts actually but I'm curious- what's your most erotic part?
(Don't say brain. Come on. )

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Take yourself off to a life drawing class - my first male model was a guy in his sixties who had the most extraordinary grizzled face. And a pair of balls like a fucking ram, swinging waaaay lower than mine ever do! Then a younger guy who was pretty fit, and a variety of women, curvy girls, skinny girls, a woman who was an artist herself (she turns up in this story: https://www.literotica.com/s/the-artists-studio ) who held a perfect odalisque pose.

My most erotic part? Not my brain, no, but close. My mind - isn't it everyone's?

holliday1960 said:

Thank you for sharing such a beautiful expression of yourself. I was fascinated and feel you totally captured in words what an artist attempts to visually express.On a more personal level, it was as if you were inside my thoughts and speaking for me. It was wonderful! Truly wonderful.

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Holliday,

when I get a response like yours to my writing, I know I'm doing something right. Thank you so much.

Someone once tried to tell me I write too much description and to cut it back. How can I do that, why would I do that? My style was once described as story telling by a log fire with a fine malt whiskey, meandering and slow. I liked that.

Holliday, I’m glad you liked the links. What you wrote about different cultures is very interesting to me. Could you kindly let me know where you read that? If it on the internet kindly link to it. It seems to me that many people think what is usual in “Western Culture” is natural to humans. In part this belief may be enhanced by the “Westernization” other cultures. When young I saw a picture of three young African males in a book called “The Nile” written in the 1920’s or 30’s. These young males were completely nude and seemed so natural and without any shame in that state. This I felt them to be beautiful and this image made a great impression on me. Michelangelo’s David is very large between 14 and 17 feet high. Originally it was to have been placed high on top of the Duomo cathedral, but that was changed and it was originally placed in the Piazza della Signoria, in the center of Florence. Thus this completely naked and uncensored figure was put where everyone could see it up close. My belief is that the Florentines saw this work as a symbol of their state and the renaissance. I can’t image such a work being placed in any conspicuous place in the United States. If it was up to me I would put a copy of it in the middle of Central Park where everyone could easily see it.

As to children it is my understanding that children are never shown wearing clothes in the images of ancient Egypt and because of that it is felt that children always went naked. Further I’ve read that the children of the Powhatan Confederacy in pre colonial America went naked and since Pocahontas was eleven when she met John Smith she was naked at the time. Here is a picture entitled “The Source of Life” (1890) by Leon Frederic: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4613624149_cd9c9ea4cc.jpg. It is at the Philadelphia Museum of Art. I wonder what the reaction would be if someone painted something like that now. To me images of naked children convey feelings of innocence and freedom. But many images of naked adults also convey to me feeling of innocence and freedom.

I agree with the female students who “got up in arms over it just last year with the rebuttal that young men should have more self control than to allow themselves to become excited by a mere slip of a bra strap.” An interesting story to me would be a school where the boys all where skirts (kilts) and the girls keep trying to get a look under the boy’s skirts.

Great long comment

Tom,

Wise, you bring up an important point and here is my reply. To me the issue is not about images of women, but is about the disparity as to how the sexes are portrayed. It seems to me that most movies are about men. They are the ones who get things done and they are the ones we know more about. Women tend to be portrayed in a more one dimensional way. To me this objectifies women. As I have become more interested in the male form both clothed and nude I have also become more interested in the stories of women both biographical and in fiction. I purposely go to movies that are about women and I purposely read books about women. I would like more “beautiful” naked men and more stories about women.

Tom,

Kimidoll, you are exactly right I completely agree with you. I very much want it to be a balance, so thank you for writing that. I’m glad you like drawing men and that you admire these parts in real life. While the penis is part of a man, men even nude men are more than their penises.

And the way a person acts (moves) and their expressions definitely adds to beauty. So I very much agree with what you wrote and I feel it makes a lot of sense. Thank you for all your contributions.

It took me a while to figure out “Jack-drawing-Rose,” but I finally got it. Good phase.

Moonlight and Roses,

Holliday, I just read your post number 66 and as I agree with you I have nothing more to write. Thank you.

Moonlight and Roses,

Electricblue, your point about differences in drawing women and men is good. Also I thank you for your comment “Jim Morrison was my ‘first’ beautiful man” as I like to hear about men who people feel are beautiful.

Tom,