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So far got 0 feedback. Anyone here got some?

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VirriV

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Joined
May 24, 2017
Posts
14
I uploaded two stories:
https://www.literotica.com/s/savages-ch-01
https://www.literotica.com/s/savages-ch-02

I got some votes on them, but no feedback or comments.
One of only two reasons for me posting them to Literotica is to get feedback.

I personally think Chapter 1 needs to be rewritten from scratch (it was written such a long time ago and some simple editing can only do so much)
Chapter 2 is also quite old, but I think it is much better.
I'm contemplating if I should even upload Chapter 3 (which out of the 4.5 I've written so far is the best one).

Looking to hear both the good and the bad sides to each story. Especially interested in the female opinion since, I'm kinda scared I write from my own male perspective too much.

Thanks in advance :)
 
Read it. Processing. I'll respond with some thoughts later or tomorrow.
 
If I were to boil my advice on writing down to three points, they'd be:
1. Have an interesting premise
2. Have two likeable characters who have an obvious attraction for each other
3. Get into telling us about #1 and #2 quickly

Veer Jagesar is a total asshole. You might be trying for him to be a total asshole. However, who wants to spend their time reading about a total asshole doing asshole things? Not me. I found it stomach churning instead of erotic. After a half of page, I had had enough.
 
8letters said:
If I were to boil my advice on writing down to three points, they'd be:
1. Have an interesting premise
2. Have two likeable characters who have an obvious attraction for each other
3. Get into telling us about #1 and #2 quickly

Veer Jagesar is a total asshole. You might be trying for him to be a total asshole. However, who wants to spend their time reading about a total asshole doing asshole things? Not me. I found it stomach churning instead of erotic. After a half of page, I had had enough.
Click to expand...

Defintely trying for him to be anything but a likeable character. I mean, people should still be able to relate to him, might feel sorry for him, since he doesn't intentionally disrespects people. Don't get me wrong, my stories are mostly about the sex and the mindgames/psychology behind it and character building comes second. But that does not mean that Veer is supposed to be the guy you just hate. He just represents the 'savage' nature in humans that skirts social convention and political correctness unless it serves his needs (same for his wife, though to a lesser and different extent)

For men I wanted him to be the guy you want to be at first (becuase he gets laid a lot) and eventually when you learn of his flaws they might think his life is not that great at all.
And for women I wanted him to be the guy that you hate but want anyway because of how good he is.
Then again I really think I should rewrite chapter 1 from scratch.

Have you tried Chapter 2? It's about Meghan and doesn't feature Veer at all.
 
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VirriV said:
Have you tried Chapter 2? It's about Meghan and doesn't feature Veer at all.
Click to expand...
It was better. I'm not a noncon reader and this strikes me as straight noncon. I have no idea how it matches up with the conventions of that area.

Edit: Thinking more on this, there are two big plot holes to the story: #1 What was the point of Meghan going to the photoshoot? She's not there to make any decisions or to provide any advice #2 The story implies that Kristen got the photoshoot by having sex with the photographer, but the decision to have the photoshoot would have been made before the photoshoot by the magazine based upon her portfolio, right?
 
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This needs a lot of work.

I disagree with 8letters that you need to have likeable characters. Needing is a weird area. On the one hand, a story probably ‘needs’ likeable characters to get a good reception, but perhaps that’s not what you ‘need’ as an author, and nobody on this forum is going to be able to change what you need. Then again, if what you need is positive feedback (as you suggested in the OP) then perhaps a revamping is in order

Veer and Meghan are both sociopaths. They will lie to the people around them to get what they want. Your main characters manipulate every other character we meet, including each other, for their own sexual gratification.

From a reader’s standpoint, sociopaths do not make great main characters because the reader can’t relate to them. Only another sociopath would really get off on that kind of preying. The reader wants a character they can feel for. A character they can ride the emotional rollercoaster next to, and experience the highs and the lows with. They want to cry when the character cries, and they want to cum when the character cums. That can’t happen with a sociopath.

From a storytelling standpoint, sociopaths do not make great characters. Certainly not main characters anyway. Villains and sidekicks, sure, but not main characters. Imagine if Sherlock Holmes wasn’t interested in solving crimes but in having ever-more elaborate sexual escapades. A) Your story turns into one log brag about how clever you are, and B) the only reason Sherlock Holmes gets away with being as insufferable as he is is because of how necessary what he does is. You create in-story problems for yourself when you try to jam this patently un-likeable square peg into everyone else’s very round holes.

The characters are everything in erotica. Literally nothing else matters even a fraction as much as the characters do. They are the lifeblood.

All that being said, if what you really want is to write sociopaths, then nobody is going to stop you and nobody should.

Don’t use flashbacks. Flashbacks are an expert-level storytelling tool (along with second person narrative, head hopping, and Gods). Someday you’ll get there, but for now focus on trying to write without them.

As it is, your flashback does nothing. You start us off in the middle of a confusing sex scene (because the main character is so distant from it), and then flash back to a different confusing sex scene (because the different characters’ motives are so obtuse). You didn’t need to hook us with sex if you were just going to go backwards in time to different sex. Just work chronologically from the morning sex.

Focus on solid storytelling. Write your story front to back, chronologically, and master the pacing. Worry about gee-whiz features later.

And now, the story. What we’re privy to so far is three sex scenes and some daily humdrum that fills the space between these moments without tying them together into any sort of narrative. Veer watches porn at work, basically all day, when he’s not actively inserting his dick into anyone. Meghan seemingly does nothing except abuse the power of her position.

Why do we care about these characters? What about them makes them more interesting than any of their neighbors? Or any of their coworkers? Honestly, after the first chapter, I’d be more interested to read about the secretary and what an emotional mess she must be from the way her boss absolutely twists her into pieces.

You do a lot of telling and not enough showing. You tell us things like “Veer cleverly manipulated the girl, stroking her jealousy by mentioning how hot Miss Universe is.” Don’t tell us that. Show us that. Yes, showing the ins and outs of a clever conversation is hard, but I think you’re up to it.

Lastly, you put these VERY short chapters in the Novels section of the site. Probably the wrong move. Like 8letters said, this story probably should go in NonCon.

If you take away nothing else from this feedback, then take this; nothing anyone TELLS you will be more effective than seeing the work for yourself. Read the writings of others, critically, and ask yourself questions along the way. Are these characters conversing smoothly? If I heard two people talking like this in the other room, would I think it sounded natural? Is this a good way to begin/end/transition a scene? Think about the nature of someone else's storytelling, and use their failures and triumphs to improve yourself.
 
8letters said:
It was better. I'm not a noncon reader and this strikes me as straight noncon. I have no idea how it matches up with the conventions of that area.

Edit: Thinking more on this, there are two big plot holes to the story: #1 What was the point of Meghan going to the photoshoot? She's not there to make any decisions or to provide any advice #2 The story implies that Kristen got the photoshoot by having sex with the photographer, but the decision to have the photoshoot would have been made before the photoshoot by the magazine based upon her portfolio, right?
Click to expand...

I really need to fix the first plothole. Definitely. The second was not intentional. It was supposed to be something Meghan said to Kristen, but didn't actually believe herself. Cameron having had se with her was also supposed to be dubious leaving the reader to pounder whether that had happened or not. Should have been a minor mention, not a plotpoint.
 
AwkwardMD said:
This needs a lot of work.

I disagree with 8letters that you need to have likeable characters. Needing is a weird area. On the one hand, a story probably ‘needs’ likeable characters to get a good reception, but perhaps that’s not what you ‘need’ as an author, and nobody on this forum is going to be able to change what you need. Then again, if what you need is positive feedback (as you suggested in the OP) then perhaps a revamping is in order

Veer and Meghan are both sociopaths. They will lie to the people around them to get what they want. Your main characters manipulate every other character we meet, including each other, for their own sexual gratification.

From a reader’s standpoint, sociopaths do not make great main characters because the reader can’t relate to them. Only another sociopath would really get off on that kind of preying. The reader wants a character they can feel for. A character they can ride the emotional rollercoaster next to, and experience the highs and the lows with. They want to cry when the character cries, and they want to cum when the character cums. That can’t happen with a sociopath.

From a storytelling standpoint, sociopaths do not make great characters. Certainly not main characters anyway. Villains and sidekicks, sure, but not main characters. Imagine if Sherlock Holmes wasn’t interested in solving crimes but in having ever-more elaborate sexual escapades. A) Your story turns into one log brag about how clever you are, and B) the only reason Sherlock Holmes gets away with being as insufferable as he is is because of how necessary what he does is. You create in-story problems for yourself when you try to jam this patently un-likeable square peg into everyone else’s very round holes.

The characters are everything in erotica. Literally nothing else matters even a fraction as much as the characters do. They are the lifeblood.

All that being said, if what you really want is to write sociopaths, then nobody is going to stop you and nobody should.

Don’t use flashbacks. Flashbacks are an expert-level storytelling tool (along with second person narrative, head hopping, and Gods). Someday you’ll get there, but for now focus on trying to write without them.

As it is, your flashback does nothing. You start us off in the middle of a confusing sex scene (because the main character is so distant from it), and then flash back to a different confusing sex scene (because the different characters’ motives are so obtuse). You didn’t need to hook us with sex if you were just going to go backwards in time to different sex. Just work chronologically from the morning sex.

Focus on solid storytelling. Write your story front to back, chronologically, and master the pacing. Worry about gee-whiz features later.

And now, the story. What we’re privy to so far is three sex scenes and some daily humdrum that fills the space between these moments without tying them together into any sort of narrative. Veer watches porn at work, basically all day, when he’s not actively inserting his dick into anyone. Meghan seemingly does nothing except abuse the power of her position.

Why do we care about these characters? What about them makes them more interesting than any of their neighbors? Or any of their coworkers? Honestly, after the first chapter, I’d be more interested to read about the secretary and what an emotional mess she must be from the way her boss absolutely twists her into pieces.

You do a lot of telling and not enough showing. You tell us things like “Veer cleverly manipulated the girl, stroking her jealousy by mentioning how hot Miss Universe is.” Don’t tell us that. Show us that. Yes, showing the ins and outs of a clever conversation is hard, but I think you’re up to it.

Lastly, you put these VERY short chapters in the Novels section of the site. Probably the wrong move. Like 8letters said, this story probably should go in NonCon.

If you take away nothing else from this feedback, then take this; nothing anyone TELLS you will be more effective than seeing the work for yourself. Read the writings of others, critically, and ask yourself questions along the way. Are these characters conversing smoothly? If I heard two people talking like this in the other room, would I think it sounded natural? Is this a good way to begin/end/transition a scene? Think about the nature of someone else's storytelling, and use their failures and triumphs to improve yourself.
Click to expand...

Thanks, a lot of good stuff I can work with. I need to get to work now, but I hope to discuss some points I don't really agree with (got some questions about those) when we both have more time.
 
Absolutely. Reply when you can, and I'll do my best to respond as soon as possible.
 
I fully agree that we don't "need" likeable protagonists. That's neither here nor there, and attempting to conform to other people's ideas of what "likeable" characters are is bound to fail anyway. Your characters are themselves, and that's all they need to be.

If you're getting downvotes just on that basis alone, they are thoroughly undeserved. :p You don't have to justify anything to others, or change your vision of your characters based on how they feel. They are who they are. Nabokov didn't make Humbert Humbert a nicer guy because he was afraid people would find him unlikeable. :p
 
I'm only quoting you on parts I have a comment on. If I don't have it quoted I agreed with you on that part

AwkwardMD said:
From a reader’s standpoint, sociopaths do not make great main characters because the reader can’t relate to them. Only another sociopath would really get off on that kind of preying. The reader wants a character they can feel for. A character they can ride the emotional rollercoaster next to, and experience the highs and the lows with. They want to cry when the character cries, and they want to cum when the character cums. That can’t happen with a sociopath.
Click to expand...

I think you are generalizing the audience here. The majority might be as you described, but I hardly feel that they don't make good main characters. There are plenty of great works of literature that feature unlikeable characters.
My personal favorite: American Psycho (a book I hated at first and nearly decided not to finish, but in the end managed to read through which opened my eyes to a whole new world of literature)


AwkwardMD said:
From a storytelling standpoint, sociopaths do not make great characters. Certainly not main characters anyway. Villains and sidekicks, sure, but not main characters. Imagine if Sherlock Holmes wasn’t interested in solving crimes but in having ever-more elaborate sexual escapades. A) Your story turns into one log brag about how clever you are, and B) the only reason Sherlock Holmes gets away with being as insufferable as he is is because of how necessary what he does is. You create in-story problems for yourself when you try to jam this patently un-likeable square peg into everyone else’s very round holes.
Click to expand...
Maybe sociopaths make bad main characters in erotica, maybe a niche group really likes them. I didn't call these stories: "Nothing but neat people", I called it "Savages" because both my main characters are savage in their way they pursuit their own needs. But to say I jam a square peg into people's round holes is a bit short imo. That's like saying "I hate your incest stories because I am against it!"
Some people like it, and if the title and the first few lines don't give away what you can expect that's not really a problem on my end. That's like saying "American Psycho" is a horrible book, because it's about a guy murdering people and he's awful!
I mean, I expected him to be that AND I still hated the main character with a passion, but that didn't take away from the novel. In fact I think it added a lot to it.
I personally am trying to do something different here. Half the reason for me writing these is to experiment with something new. And I personally think sociopaths make for a more interesting character to read about. As a reader relating 100% to your main character seems like a bad thing, it means it doesn't give you a glimpse in the mind of someone else. You don't have anything to take away from it. Whereas with a sociopath you might hate 99% of what he does, but if you find even 1% that you can still relate to (e.g. being so horny that you let your moral values slide a little) I think that teaches you something about yourself.
If people are afraid to see their own reflection in these soiopaths that's up to them, but we're all somewhere on that sociopath scale, some closer to the diagnosis than others and fear in this case smells like cowardice to me.


AwkwardMD said:
The characters are everything in erotica. Literally nothing else matters even a fraction as much as the characters do. They are the lifeblood.
Click to expand...
Again, maybe for you. Maybe I am trying to write in a different genre (the pornwords genre) where the characters and scenario are just steps towards a sex scene. Just like a porno: the sex matters, a bit of set up makes it better.
Maybe it's a different genre, but I definitely think there is a place for it (especially after seeing that given the few votes it got, it is still scoring mostly positive).

AwkwardMD said:
Why do we care about these characters? What about them makes them more interesting than any of their neighbors? Or any of their coworkers? Honestly, after the first chapter, I’d be more interested to read about the secretary and what an emotional mess she must be from the way her boss absolutely twists her into pieces.
Click to expand...
That seems like a normal novel (to read about the secretary). Not an erotic novel.
I mean, if you take 50shades (which I definitely don't want to mimic ugh....) the characters are paperthin and the premise is so unbelievable yet it is a great success :/
In my case I think my Veer is a more believable character (you don't get rich or in a high position without having some sociopathic tendencies, it's the weirdo's that rise to the top). I am, however, not trying to make you care about them (well Meghan later, but not yet). I'm just telling their story and giving you glimpses in their lives that you may find yourself relating to or maybe not.

AwkwardMD said:
Lastly, you put these VERY short chapters in the Novels section of the site. Probably the wrong move. Like 8letters said, this story probably should go in NonCon.
Click to expand...
I was thinking about it, but I do mean to havearound 15 of these short chapters/scenes. I'm new to the site, so I'm not sure where to psot them. This Novels/Novellas section seemed like the only one which featured separate stories with continuation. Do other sections have that as well?




All this being said, I am defintely greatful for the feedback. Especially about my punctuation. English isn't my frst language and I always thought the comma came after the 'but' given that that is where I usually pause in my sentence to put emphasis on what comes next. Anyway, I'm paying more attention to it and I hope to raise my game with the next chapter :)
 
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I have longer responses to all of this and i will type those out tomorrow most likely. For now, I want to do something I never do and point out one of my own stories; Dark Horse.

Https://www.literotica.com/s/dark-horse-ch-01

I think it would be worth your time to see how I handled a sociopathic character.
 
AwkwardMD said:
I have longer responses to all of this and i will type those out tomorrow most likely. For now, I want to do something I never do and point out one of my own stories; Dark Horse.

Https://www.literotica.com/s/dark-horse-ch-01

I think it would be worth your time to see how I handled a sociopathic character.
Click to expand...

No offence, but I didn't like that story at all. It was written very well (the only thing that really bothered me was the constant 'Ms. Winters', give her a shorter moniker or a first name), but you hardly get to see her thought process.
I want my stories to delve into the psyche of my sociopaths. The way they rationalize their cruel behavior, because in the end: nothing is good or bad, but thinking makes it so.
So while we think manipulation for sex is bad, my characters don't. And being in their mind gives you a glimpse in how they think about their behavior.

And another thing why your story is not much of an example for me, it takes too long to get interesting for me.

If I want to read a good book I'll go read a classic. Literotica for me is about Erotica first, the rest second.
Your story is good for what your hoping to accomplish, but that is not what I'm after.
 
VirriV said:
If I want to read a good book I'll go read a classic. Literotica for me is about Erotica first, the rest second.
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Well, ouch. That's kind of insulting. Not the way to get good feedback here.

But if you're an erotica first type, then why do you care so much how you established your character or if they are likable or unlikable?

I'd like to look, but from the other comments you're writing non con with a d-bag character that I would most likely write a bloody death for so it wouldn't be my thing.

Only advice I'd give is try not to be insulting when looking for feedback. People are taking their time to respond and you said you appreciated so stick with that attitude.
 
VirriV said:
Defintely trying for him to be anything but a likeable character. I mean, people should still be able to relate to him, might feel sorry for him, since he doesn't intentionally disrespects people. Don't get me wrong, my stories are mostly about the sex and the mindgames/psychology behind it and character building comes second. But that does not mean that Veer is supposed to be the guy you just hate. He just represents the 'savage' nature in humans that skirts social convention and political correctness unless it serves his needs (same for his wife, though to a lesser and different extent)

For men I wanted him to be the guy you want to be at first (becuase he gets laid a lot) and eventually when you learn of his flaws they might think his life is not that great at all.
And for women I wanted him to be the guy that you hate but want anyway because of how good he is.
Click to expand...
I'm getting the feeling that you imagine Veer as a suave, charming guy who oozes power and sexuality. As written, he's an idiotic asshole. It's not even a Show vs Tell issue - there's nothing suave, charming or powerful about Veer. Someone who is suave, charming and oozes power and sexuality doesn't have to rape his wife. He'd know the magic words to get his wife to happily drop to her knees even though it'll mean she'll be late to work.
 
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VirriV said:
I think you are generalizing the audience here. The majority might be as you described, but I hardly feel that they don't make good main characters. There are plenty of great works of literature that feature unlikeable characters.
My personal favorite: American Psycho (a book I hated at first and nearly decided not to finish, but in the end managed to read through which opened my eyes to a whole new world of literature)
Click to expand...

For the purposes of giving feedback, a majority of bad sociopathic characters represents enough reason to warn a new author away from attempting that. To put it in musical terms, you are trying to master arpeggios without a firm grasp on how to play scales.

I've only seen the movie, but I can infer enough about the narrative technique to see that the sociopath breaks storytelling rules by explaining himself at every turn. Lengthy expositionary narratives that lay out his motives. That works in American Psycho because the characters actions carry the tension. His apetite for violence has the trajectory of a rocket. That is the source of the tension. The "omg what is he going to do next?!"

You don't have that. At least not yet.

Maybe sociopaths make bad main characters in erotica, maybe a niche group really likes them. I didn't call these stories: "Nothing but neat people", I called it "Savages" because both my main characters are savage in their way they pursuit their own needs. But to say I jam a square peg into people's round holes is a bit short imo. That's like saying "I hate your incest stories because I am against it!"
Some people like it, and if the title and the first few lines don't give away what you can expect that's not really a problem on my end. That's like saying "American Psycho" is a horrible book, because it's about a guy murdering people and he's awful!
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You can't shock me. I hope that after reading a little bit of Dark Horse, you can see that I'm not some 'dancing through the tulips' romance author (not that there's anything wrong with that). I don't think Veer and Meghan are savage, just inconsiderate and self-absorbed.

Imagine that Veer is an island. A fair metaphor for a sociopath. They stand apart. In order for Veer to have the sexual apetite he wants, Veer has to build bridges around him, but Sociopaths inadvertently burn those bridges as often as they make them. Eventually, from a storytelling perspective, it will become harder and harder to justify people falling for Veer's schtick. Sociopaths often become pariahs unless they make a concerted effort to find a place to blend in.

That is what i meant with the square peg metaphor, while also making it about his inability to find a place to insert his penis.

As an author, there are two very different kinds of skillsets that make up the job; writing and storytelling. Writing is the words on the page. Grammar. Punctuation. Storytelling is the crafting of a plot, and how you layout the trail of breadcrumbs for the reader to follow.

Sociopaths are not an easy piece to fit into a breadcrumb trail.

I mean, I expected him to be that AND I still hated the main character with a passion, but that didn't take away from the novel. In fact I think it added a lot to it.
I personally am trying to do something different here. Half the reason for me writing these is to experiment with something new. And I personally think sociopaths make for a more interesting character to read about. As a reader relating 100% to your main character seems like a bad thing, it means it doesn't give you a glimpse in the mind of someone else. You don't have anything to take away from it. Whereas with a sociopath you might hate 99% of what he does, but if you find even 1% that you can still relate to (e.g. being so horny that you let your moral values slide a little) I think that teaches you something about yourself.
Click to expand...

It is entirely admirable to go out trying to provoke people. Kudos. That being said, you likely won't get the reaction you're looking from your approach.

Imagine if Veer was an actual alien. 15 feet tall, with 15 arms and 15 penises that he used to have sex with 15 women at a time. 99% of what Alien Veer does is completely uncrecognizable as human, but he does poop on a toilet. Creating a 1% relatability overlap with a character is not going to make the reader see themselves in Alien Veer.

If you really want to shock a reader, you need to show them a very close version of themselves that, under the right conditions, does something they don't want to believe they would. Or can't believe they would. THAT is what sets good storytellers apart from bad ones.

If people are afraid to see their own reflection in these soiopaths that's up to them, but we're all somewhere on that sociopath scale, some closer to the diagnosis than others and fear in this case smells like cowardice to me.
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You should not feel entitled to dismiss the reader for their cowardice when you haven't done the legwork to give them a reason to see anything of themselves in Veer or Meghan.

Again, maybe for you. Maybe I am trying to write in a different genre (the pornwords genre) where the characters and scenario are just steps towards a sex scene. Just like a porno: the sex matters, a bit of set up makes it better.
Maybe it's a different genre, but I definitely think there is a place for it (especially after seeing that given the few votes it got, it is still scoring mostly positive).
Click to expand...

This is where things get muddy. What you are saying here (or at least, what I'm hearing) is that you want to write stroke stories. Stroke stories are great places for Flesh Twister (right hand on left breast). Stroke stories are fine, and there is absolutely a place for them. A stroke story is not the place to introduce a complex literary subject like a sociopath, especially if what you want is to hold up a mirror and show us the animal inside of us.

You need to figure out what you want to write. Good storytelling is hard. It requires a thoughtful approach, and it doesn't always come out like you wanted. That's why you dust yourself off and try again.

That seems like a normal novel (to read about the secretary). Not an erotic novel.
I mean, if you take 50shades (which I definitely don't want to mimic ugh....) the characters are paperthin and the premise is so unbelievable yet it is a great success :/
In my case I think my Veer is a more believable character (you don't get rich or in a high position without having some sociopathic tendencies, it's the weirdo's that rise to the top). I am, however, not trying to make you care about them (well Meghan later, but not yet). I'm just telling their story and giving you glimpses in their lives that you may find yourself relating to or maybe not.
Click to expand...

The likely answer is that I won't (find myself relating to them). The question then is "How much of me (the reader) not relating to Meghan and Veer is your fault as the storyteller, and how much is mine?" Did you do enough to show me something of myself? Are you expecting too much?

My early guess is that you're expecting too much, but I will allow that there's a solid chance that i'm wrong.

was thinking about it, but I do mean to havearound 15 of these short chapters/scenes. I'm new to the site, so I'm not sure where to psot them. This Novels/Novellas section seemed like the only one which featured separate stories with continuation. Do other sections have that as well?
Click to expand...

All sections of the site allow for multi-chapter posting. The Novels tends to be for completed, lengthy works (100,000+ words).
 
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VirriV said:
No offence, but I didn't like that story at all. It was written very well (the only thing that really bothered me was the constant 'Ms. Winters', give her a shorter moniker or a first name), but you hardly get to see her thought process.
I want my stories to delve into the psyche of my sociopaths. The way they rationalize their cruel behavior, because in the end: nothing is good or bad, but thinking makes it so.
So while we think manipulation for sex is bad, my characters don't. And being in their mind gives you a glimpse in how they think about their behavior.

And another thing why your story is not much of an example for me, it takes too long to get interesting for me.

If I want to read a good book I'll go read a classic. Literotica for me is about Erotica first, the rest second.
Your story is good for what your hoping to accomplish, but that is not what I'm after.
Click to expand...

Ms. Winters is a character whose interests and apetite lie in control and manipulation. The farther you read, the more her motivations show up in her actions, and in her reactions to other characters. It's not until the final scene of the final chapter that her full reasoning comes out, but that is all on purpose. Ms. Winters actions drive the story because they are seemingly inscrutable. The less you know about a villain, the scarier they are.

Ridley Scott only needed one Alien to get the world to wet the bed.

You have no such tension, and overexplaining a characters psyche is a task better suited for psychological profiles than fiction of any kind.
 
Your discussion about finding a part of ourselves that we don't want to admit to having reninded me of the film The Good Son, and the choice the mother, Susan, is faced with.

If you haven't seen it, I would highly recommend it.
 
I think AwkwardMD hit on a solution when saying he would be more interested in a story about the secretary. Tell the story more from the perspective of the victims rather than the perpetrators. That way it's easier for the reader to relate to the "alien minds" of the main characters. Show us how a normal person sees things with occasional glimpses into the sociopathic heads. Has the added benefit of potential for some Alien verses Predator type encounters when the two main characters are together.
 
A lot of good feedback here. I think I wrote my stories without much regard for my reader and just expected him/her to see things as I did. I see I have much to learn here. I'm thinking of rewriting both 'chapters' and posting them in a different section than novels. I'll try to flesh out the character more from the point of how others are supposed to see him.
Don't know what else to say besides, 'Thanks again for your feedback!'
 
VirriV said:
A lot of good feedback here. I think I wrote my stories without much regard for my reader and just expected him/her to see things as I did. I see I have much to learn here. I'm thinking of rewriting both 'chapters' and posting them in a different section than novels. I'll try to flesh out the character more from the point of how others are supposed to see him.
Don't know what else to say besides, 'Thanks again for your feedback!'
Click to expand...

Write the next one, don't fuss with the last one. Learn, move on, you'll learn more, I reckon.
 
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