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why is paying for sex illegal /

KimGordon67 said:
Yes. The theory was that criminalising the selling was bad for women. The underlying premise is that sex work is fundamentally exploitative for women, and criminalising them just made the situation worse.

It's not worked very well at all, and wasn't a move supported by sex workers as a whole.
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I guess the choice is either de-criminalize it or don't. I don't think you are ever going to get the exploitive nature out of being a sex worker no matter what you do.
 
srgreene said:
I think the reason is to protect women. The sex biz can be a horribly exploitative one, and I sense you and I agree that there should be some controls on the matter. But sex for money .... or position (like many of Wienstein's outraged women- should not, in and of itself, be illegal. Whose body is it, anyway?

Historically, in Japan, there were two broad classes of prostitutes. The geisha were often quite accomplished and respected women, rather similar to Renaissance courtesans. But under them, there were the streetwalkers who sold their bodies for whatever they could get, and their fate was an unhappy one.
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If it's to protect women, it's an abysmal failure. By forcing them to be outside the law, all protections are removed. For example, if I go to get a haircut, I don't have to go through a pimp, and there is almost no possibility I will assault the barber or cheat him or her out of the cost of service, because a person plying a legal trade is protected by the law. This is not so with a prostitute, who can be abused or cheated by her pimp or a john or even the cops.
 
JackLuis said:
‘More women are sexual predators than men’: South Carolina pastor blames ‘war on men’ to defend Roy Moore

Pastor Franklin Raddish of the Capitol Hill Independent Baptist Ministries has dismissed recent allegations of powerful men as attacks that are part of a so-called “war on men,” AL.com reports.

“More women are sexual predators than men,” Rev. Raddish claimed.

“Women are chasing young boys up and down the road, but we don’t hear about that because it’s not PC,” Rev. Raddish alleged.

In 2004, Rev. Raddish organized a protest at the Rhea County Courthouse in Dayton Tennessee in 2004, using the site of the Scopes Monkey Trial to highlight his opposition to pedophilia to rationalize his anti-LGBT bigotry.


Can you give me some phone numbers of these 'pussy predators' Rev?:)
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This is probably the dumbest thing I have ever read on here. If women are chasing young boys up and down the road, it's because those boys have snatched their purses.
 
mark_j said:
I guess the choice is either de-criminalize it or don't. I don't think you are ever going to get the exploitive nature out of being a sex worker no matter what you do.
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The closest you can get to getting the exploitive nature out of being any kind of worker is to work for yourself.
 
BotanyBoy said:
The closest you can get to getting the exploitive nature out of being any kind of worker is to work for yourself.
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That may be true but we ain't talking about Joe lunch box here are we..
 
mark_j said:
I guess the choice is either de-criminalize it or don't. I don't think you are ever going to get the exploitive nature out of being a sex worker no matter what you do.
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Sex work isn't inherently exploitative. And in spite of what a previous poster said, it isn't women 'selling their bodies' any more than someone working in Macs is 'selling their body'. Sex workers are selling a service. The only reason it's seen as 'exploitative' is because we've attached some emotional 'value' to the act of sex - which, of course, it often has. However, me cooking a delicious meal for someone I love also attaches an emotional value to cooking - yet we seem fine about people making money from selling that service.

If sex work is decriminalised, and we stop treating it as some 'special' thing, sex workers are able to complain to the police when they're harrassed, claim compensation when they're employment conditions are shit, and negotiate an exchange of services for money within a reasonable timeframe.
 
mark_j said:
That may be true but we ain't talking about Joe lunch box here are we..
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I don't see how it's different than any other service exchange.

Except of course other than there are a whole bunch of people who have all sorts of sexual hang up's and a need to force those hang up's on everyone else around them by way of government control over those means.

America should get back to it's roots and let hoes be hoes.
 
KimGordon67 said:
Sex work isn't inherently exploitative. And in spite of what a previous poster said, it isn't women 'selling their bodies' any more than someone working in Macs is 'selling their body'. Sex workers are selling a service. The only reason it's seen as 'exploitative' is because we've attached some emotional 'value' to the act of sex - which, of course, it often has. However, me cooking a delicious meal for someone I love also attaches an emotional value to cooking - yet we seem fine about people making money from selling that service.

If sex work is decriminalised, and we stop treating it as some 'special' thing, sex workers are able to complain to the police when they're harrassed, claim compensation when they're employment conditions are shit, and negotiate an exchange of services for money within a reasonable timeframe.
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KinGordeon....suddenly a capitalist reich winger :rolleyes: I thought you were a huge fan of socialism.

Don't you think the state should be administering and doing the negotiating for you??

Government issue pimpin' is the only way Comrade!!

Or are you some kind of Capitalist pig...a reich wing Nazi.....??

Advocating women get to negotiate an exchange or decide what conditions are or are not shit.....how terribly capitalist!
 
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BotanyBoy said:
KinGordeon....suddenly a libertarian :rolleyes:

Don't you think the state should be administering and doing the negotiating for you??

Or are you some kind of Capitalist pig...a reich wing Nazi.....??
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I think you've confused me for some sort of communist.
 
KimGordon67 said:
Actually, I am, but it's difficult to make it work.
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So then why so capitalistic when it comes to prostitution?

Why not other exchanges of goods and services? :confused:

KimGordon67 said:
I'm realistic enough to go with the social democratic position.
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Democratic socialism is just socialism put to a vote.

At the end of the day it's still advocating government control/ownership over the means and markets.
 
BotanyBoy said:
So then why so capitalistic when it comes to prostitution?

Why not other exchanges of goods and services? :confused:



Democratic socialism is just socialism put to a vote.

At the end of the day it's still advocating government control/ownership over the means and markets.
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I think we've had this or similar discussion more than enough. You just choose to operate on the basis of a 'total free market' vs 'communism/socialism' binary opposition. My position on sex work isn't any different from my position on any other service.
 
KimGordon67 said:
I think we've had this or similar discussion more than enough. You just choose to operate on the basis of a 'total free market' vs 'communism/socialism' binary opposition. My position on sex work isn't any different from my position on any other service.
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I do not operate on a binary opposition basis. I think there is a lot of mixing in the modern first world as far as overall society goes as well as personal opinions.

I just believe that justifications and reasonings don't change what is or is not socialistic/capitalistic or socialism/capitalism.

The definitions are what they are. Right, wrong, good, bad, from a democratic process or from an autocratic dictator, for the environment, for fuck white males because that is progress!!! , for whatever.....doesn't change the definitions.

KimGordon67 said:
My position on sex work isn't any different from my position on any other service
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You clearly stated that sex workers should be able to negotiate the terms of their services and get to decide what conditions meet standards and what conditions don't.

That's in direct contradiction with your highly socialistic condemnation of others having the same privilege, from banks to hospitals.

So you are suddenly either highly capitalistic all around and at large, which is cool and I ask what changed?

Your position on sex work is different, which is cool too but I ask why?

Or you misspoke and actually think sex work should be highly regulated by the state.
 
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BotanyBoy said:
I do not operate on a binary opposition basis. I just believe that justifications and reasonings don't change what is or is not socialistic/capitalistic.



You clearly stated that sex workers should be able to negotiate the terms of their services and get to decide what conditions meet standards and what conditions don't.

That's in direct contradiction with your highly socialistic condemnation of others having the same privilege, from banks to hospitals.

So you are suddenly either highly capitalistic all around and at large, which is cool and I ask what changed?

Your position on sex work is different, which is cool too but I ask why?

Or you misspoke and actually think sex work should be highly regulated by the state.
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I'm talking about sex work sold as a direct transaction between the worker and the client (which I would have thought was obvious).
Sex work isn't the same sort of service as most healthcare or large-scale financial services.
 
KimGordon67 said:
I'm talking about sex work sold as a direct transaction between the worker and the client (which I would have thought was obvious).
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Right, and you don't think that should be controlled (regulated) by the state? :confused:

KimGordon67 said:
Sex work isn't the same sort of service as most healthcare or large-scale financial services.
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How is it any different?

I contact service provider, I exchange my money for their services.

Banker, lawn boy, plumber, surgeon, huntin' n' fishin' guide, welder, internet, car wash....all the same exchange principal applies to them all. I give money, they provide a service, just like sex workers.

When it comes to other service exchange you think the government should control that exchange.

But with sex workers you think the exchange should be between the sex worker and their customer right? Or do you think the government should be involved?
 
BotanyBoy said:
Right, and you don't think that should be controlled (regulated) by the state? :confused:



How is it any different?

I contact service provider, I exchange my money for their services.

Banker, lawn boy, plumber, surgeon, huntin' n' fishin' guide, welder, internet, car wash....all the same exchange principal applies to them all. I give money, they provide a service, just like sex workers.

When it comes to other service exchange you think the government should control that exchange.

But with sex workers you think the exchange should be between the sex worker and their customer right? Or do you think the government should be involved?
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I really can't be arsed having this discussion - there's no way in the world your perspective is going to change, and it's an utter and total waste of my time attempting to explain the finer details of my political position, and there's curry that needs eating.
Feel free to call that a win if it makes you happy.
 
KimGordon67 said:
I really can't be arsed having this discussion - there's no way in the world your perspective is going to change, and it's an utter and total waste of my time attempting to explain the finer details of my political position, and there's curry that needs eating.
Feel free to call that a win if it makes you happy.
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Well not if you won't do anything other than be a condescending shit about it...no that won't change my perspective at all.



But just to be clear, you can't or won't clarify or explain your glaring contradiction when it comes to sex workers.......noted.


Now I just figure you another far left wing feminist that went from Lenin worshiping socialist to paleo-libertarian when it comes to women getting paid or seeking female specific services of their own.
 
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BotanyBoy said:
Well not if you won't do anything other than be a condescending shit about it...no that won't change my perspective at all.



But just to be clear, you can't or won't clarify or explain your glaring contradiction when it comes to sex workers.......noted.


Now I just figure you another far left wing feminist that went from Lenin worshiping socialist to paleo-libertarian when it comes to women getting paid or seeking female specific services of their own.
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stock-vector-winners-cup-53949307.jpg


Happy? Or would you like a tiara too?
 
KimGordon67 said:
stock-vector-winners-cup-53949307.jpg


Happy? Or would you like a tiara too?
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Having a discussion with me like I'm a person and not just talking down at me like I'm shit on your shoe would make me happy.

I'd like to understand why you're so capitalistic with sex workers but nobody else.


But wish in one hand shit in the other right?

You can't do anything but deflect with smugness ....so enjoy basking in your smug. ;)
 
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