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‘just over an hour’? Precision does not seem to be called for.
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Punctuation Question
- Thread starter LoquiSordidaAdMe
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ElectricBlue
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I'm late to the party, but I'd just write, "An hour or so into the flight," which to me catches the vagueness. The other examples smack of precision, as if it's important to know it was an hour or an hour and a half (but nothing in between).
NoJo
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The reason, I think, the OP has an issue, is that the comma is NOT quite appropriate here:
When vocalising this (as all writers do, of course), I'd say
"...the plane takes off, and we're like an hour hour-and-a-half into the flight..."
i.e. running the words together. A comma doesn't capture the pace of the speech perfectly; the forward-slash actually works better. But to READ that forward slash is jarring, so I'd have to go with the others here, and suggest a comma.
When vocalising this (as all writers do, of course), I'd say
"...the plane takes off, and we're like an hour hour-and-a-half into the flight..."
i.e. running the words together. A comma doesn't capture the pace of the speech perfectly; the forward-slash actually works better. But to READ that forward slash is jarring, so I'd have to go with the others here, and suggest a comma.
LoquiSordidaAdMe
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One more Thank You for everyone's advice and suggestions. After teasing together several of your ideas, here's what I settled on...
Saying it out loud, the "or" is a little awkward but when reading it, I think "or" is effectively invisible while making it clear that there's no typo there. The "maybe" emphasizes that the speaker is guesstimating the amount of time. Most importantly, I think this is a way this character would say it. There were a lot of suggestions that would work, but they just don't sound like the way this character talks when I read them.
Again, I'm probably overthinking it, and I've clearly fixated on this one little passage.
But thanks to you fine folks in the AH, I've been able to outsource the problem and move on with the rest of the story. While you were all kind enough to consider my problem, I've had my most productive weekend of writing in a while. Thank you all for that.
"...the plane takes off, and we're like maybe an hour or hour-and-a-half into the flight..."
Saying it out loud, the "or" is a little awkward but when reading it, I think "or" is effectively invisible while making it clear that there's no typo there. The "maybe" emphasizes that the speaker is guesstimating the amount of time. Most importantly, I think this is a way this character would say it. There were a lot of suggestions that would work, but they just don't sound like the way this character talks when I read them.
Again, I'm probably overthinking it, and I've clearly fixated on this one little passage.
But thanks to you fine folks in the AH, I've been able to outsource the problem and move on with the rest of the story. While you were all kind enough to consider my problem, I've had my most productive weekend of writing in a while. Thank you all for that.
Blind_Justice
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Not sure if I should open up a new thread, but I have a small punctuation issue of my own.
I know when writing dialogue, the punctuation has to go inside the quotation marks. But what about this?
It's clearly not dialogue, but my editor insists that punctuation always has to go inside quotation marks. I'd like a second (or fifth) opinion here, please.
I know when writing dialogue, the punctuation has to go inside the quotation marks. But what about this?
It's clearly not dialogue, but my editor insists that punctuation always has to go inside quotation marks. I'd like a second (or fifth) opinion here, please.
ThisNameIsntTakenYet
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I'd put it in single quotes to make it stand out from actual spoken dialogue. That's what I usually do when literally mentioning what's written on something in narration.
Blind_Justice
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I'll take that too... but where do I put the period? Inside or outside the quotes?
KeithD
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In U.S. style, the answer to the original question has variations. As asked, the double quotes go outside the end punctuation. If it were in dialogue, though, it would be rendered: He said, ". . . 'Miss Millie's House of Respite'."
Re the other two responding posts, the U.S. style is ALWAYS double quotes at the first level, regardless. British style is more complex, but neither suggestion given for single quotes use would fly in American style.
Re the other two responding posts, the U.S. style is ALWAYS double quotes at the first level, regardless. British style is more complex, but neither suggestion given for single quotes use would fly in American style.
Blind_Justice
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So, my initial posting was correct? Since it was descriptive text, NOT dialogue, the period goes outside the quotes?
jaF0
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Laurel will probably bounce it back it you put them inside the period.
But I'd still use single quotes.
Blind_Justice
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Well, at least then I can claim that I've had a story come back for each of her reasons, valid or not. 
Thanks guys.
Thanks guys.
LoquiSordidaAdMe
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As I recall, the period-inside-quotes rule came about in the US in the same era as the two-spaces-after-a-period rule and for much the same reason. It made fixed width type more readable. Personally, I regard this as outdated in the digital era. But just like the two spaces rule, it still has adherents.
Today, it depends on the style guide you or your editor are using. I know the AP style guide allows for the possibility of punctuation outside of quotation marks...
Periods and commas always go within quotation marks. Dashes, semicolons, question marks and exclamation points go within quotation marks when they apply to the quoted matter only. They go outside quotation marks when they apply to the whole sentence.
But Lit does not require you to use the AP style guide or the MLA style guide or any other. I don't think you have a readability issue. All you have is a persnickety editor issue. And you are allowed to overrule your editor.
KeithD
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No. Look again. I posted that the quote marks go OUTSIDE the end punctuation in your example--if you are using American style (which is what the Web site uses).
KeithD
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AP (Associated Press; journalism) style is for newspaper copy, not fiction.
Literotica permits British style to the extent the Lit. editor understands it and it's consistent, although complex British style isn't understood; AP and MLA style aren't for fiction. Literotica itself uses American style.
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Blind_Justice
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Sorry, my bad. Thank you.
KeithD
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U.S. Fiction style authority is The Chicago Manual of Style (as it is for general nonfiction)
UK fiction style authority is the Oxford Manual of Style
The APA style (American Psychological Association) manual is for humanistic sciences.
The AP (Associated Press) and the New York Times style guides are for journalism.
The GPO manual is for general U.S. government reports.
The Style Manual and Writers Guide for Intelligence Publications is for U.S. intelligence research papers
The MLA (Modern Language Association) handbook is for research papers and literary criticism.
Kate Turabian's A Manual for Writers is for college research papers.
Strunk and White's The Elements of Style is for high school themes.
We are writing fiction here.
UK fiction style authority is the Oxford Manual of Style
The APA style (American Psychological Association) manual is for humanistic sciences.
The AP (Associated Press) and the New York Times style guides are for journalism.
The GPO manual is for general U.S. government reports.
The Style Manual and Writers Guide for Intelligence Publications is for U.S. intelligence research papers
The MLA (Modern Language Association) handbook is for research papers and literary criticism.
Kate Turabian's A Manual for Writers is for college research papers.
Strunk and White's The Elements of Style is for high school themes.
We are writing fiction here.
LoquiSordidaAdMe
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Ah, Chicago! I forgot about that one. I bet I still have an out of date copy of the Chicago Manual of Style gathering dust on a book shelf somewhere. It's orange if I recall.
I bet you're a two-spaces-after-a-period kinda fella, aren't you Keith?
KeithD
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No, I'm not, which, if you had been here for any length of time, you'd know. Beyond that, you and others asked a question, and I gave you a professional editor's response. I can do without the snide amateurism. If you don't want a "best practice" answer, don't ask the questions. Just go off and do your own thing and then advise others to go down the wrong paths with you.
The orange Chicago manual was the 15th one, two manuals ago.
So, I bet you're the kind of writer who thinks you know everything about publishing because you own a computer.
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SimonDoom
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I think Loqui was just ribbing you, not being snide with you. There's a big difference.
I must be getting close to old timer status because I actually DO seem to remember you writing that you didn't favor the two spaces.
KeithD
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It was snide no matter why it was posted. I don't buy the "haha" interpretation.
If "I know it all by osmosis or something" amateur writers want to screw up doing their own thing is one thing; advising other writers to do it as well is quite another.
If "I know it all by osmosis or something" amateur writers want to screw up doing their own thing is one thing; advising other writers to do it as well is quite another.
LoquiSordidaAdMe
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Keith, there was nothing snide intended in my response, and you have my sincere apologies that it came across that way.
I changed careers and left the publishing industry years ago. I was there long enough to form opinions, but I'd never claim to know it all. I have nothing but respect for the professionalism you bring to the AH and the advice you give away for free. I am sorry that I expressed my opinion in a way that made you think otherwise.
JPGmvny
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Law has the Uniform System of Citation, known as the "Blue Book." It's important because of the significance of identifying citations, i.e., case or other authority for the proposition one is making.
I'll take a look at Chicago. I'm getting useful tips in usage and Dreyer's English.
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KeithD
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Noted, thanks. I keep trying to remind myself to stop responding to questions on grammar and punctuation. I'll have to keep reminding myself just not to do it.
