Forced/Reluctant Sex scenes?

I'm not a huge fan of them myself. I do use them sparingly in my stories to build sentiment for one of my characters and to build hatred/ resentment for another character. I'm not one to actually find some type of fantasy pleasure in those sex scenes... was interested in hearing what others had to say about them. I know when I write my newest chapter to " A Slut's Triangle" I wrote from personal/ realistic expeierences I've had and some parts were painful to express, invoking past memories. Thoughts?
Kant

https://www.literotica.com/s/a-sluts-triangle-pt-14 (the chapter I'm referring to using forced/reluctant sex scene in conjunction with mind control aspects and the vicious cycle of an abusive relationship)

It's a tricky line to dance around. I wouldn't want the characters not to enjoy themselves when it came right down to it, though the feeling of control that is either given or taking away can be interesting or maybe sexy to write about.

Admittingly, I've been writing a bit of a reluctance story myself (The virgin Princess, rescued, suddenly finds herself alone in the forest with her savior, who now wants to claim his reward )

I think it could also be hot if maybe if it also has a supernatural/fictional aspect like maybe ghostly possession or hypnotism.

Maybe even a story of how someone is just trying to convince the other to just have sex, they're not really convinced but in the end they both like it.

Downright rape. Forced Sex? Well, that's just not my cup o' tea, personally.

I've written a couple of rape scenes which I loathe, but they set up the character and the ultimate revenge and in order to get the reader wanting that revenge you have to show the rapists as the scum they are and 'in action'

So I have never written it for titillation, but more to further a story Ala Girl with dragon Tattoo/ I spit on your Grave type movies/books.

So in other words not the sexy rape that is all over this site, I mean isn't allowed here.

I let the story spin out to what it will be and then decide where/whether to submit it afterward. I don't start any story with the thought that the main hook is rape, but I don't start it out with the thought that it can't be this or that. I've written a few that can't go on Amazon, but I don't think I've held any back from Lit. yet.

lovecraft68 said:

I've written a couple of rape scenes which I loathe, but they set up the character and the ultimate revenge and in order to get the reader wanting that revenge you have to show the rapists as the scum they are and 'in action'

So I have never written it for titillation, but more to further a story Ala Girl with dragon Tattoo/ I spit on your Grave type movies/books.

So in other words not the sexy rape that is all over this site, I mean isn't allowed here.

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Where in the Hell have you been? I ain't seen hide nor hair from you in a while. Good to see you again, LC

Hmm.... not a popular topic to talk about on this message board,I see.

Kantarii said:

Hmm.... not a popular topic to talk about on this message board,I see.

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With the spread of "no means no" campaigns and tighter rape laws across the world (eg http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36726095), forced and reluctant sex is increasingly being seen as an illegal and unacceptable activity that doesn't have the 'doesn't harm anyone' saving grace that might be claimed for, say, incest. Forced or reluctant sex scenes clearly go against laws that require that consent to sex must be clear and unequivocal and not extracted under duress, alcohol, drugs, etc. No doubt one day Lit will catch up and forced/reluctant sex will become as unwelcome as underage, snuff and bestiality.

Kantarii said:

Thoughts?

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I recommend this essay and the accompanying comments.

Yes it is. There's a Non-Con Section. Rape is Non-Consent.

lovecraft68 said:

I'
So in other words not the sexy rape that is all over this site, I mean isn't allowed here.

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I like Incest. If I'm ever going to stray, it would be to Non-Con, once in a very blue moon.

There was a pretty nasty date rape story on one of the last contests I really got into. Halloween or Xmas can't remember. I thought it was very brave and bold. And hot.

The thing about a rape fantasy is, it works. 100% of the time. If you write it, or like to read it, who gives a f what anyone else thinks?

It's squicky, though. Very very taboo, way more difficult to deal with than Incest, imo. Of course for others it's probably reversed.

Non Con is interesting bec it's (I think) the most highly read by females. Or maybe BDSM not sure. SO who cares what all the male commenters think, tossing in their two cents? I'm much more interested in what female readers have to say about it. Everyone else should just shut up.

Kantarii said:

Hmm.... not a popular topic to talk about on this message board,I see.

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Hmm.... not a popular topic to talk about on this message board,I see.

Non-Consent / Reluctance

There is, at least in my mind, a world of difference between non-consent and reluctance. I've written stories where one of the characters was reluctant because of social upbringing, fear of what others would think, that kind of stuff, but he/she really wanted it, they were just reluctant to give in to their desires. To me that is very hot. The idea of someone evolving and changing to be more self-confident and learning to pursue what they want instead of being shackled by social norms is erotic.

Non-consent, where the character does NOT want it, crosses the line for me and I won't write it in an erotic story and I don't want to read it in an erotic story either. In non-erotic stories, I agree that it can be a part of the story but it should be always be villainized. Rape is without a doubt the most heinous crime there is. Murder pales beside it, because if you are killed it is over, but rape stays with you for the rest of your life. My opinion, rape should always carry an automatic death penalty and not necessarily in a "humane" fashion.

GoldenCojones said:

There is, at least in my mind, a world of difference between non-consent and reluctance. I've written stories where one of the characters was reluctant because of social upbringing, fear of what others would think, that kind of stuff, but he/she really wanted it, they were just reluctant to give in to their desires. To me that is very hot. The idea of someone evolving and changing to be more self-confident and learning to pursue what they want instead of being shackled by social norms is erotic...

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If you look through court records, you'll find plenty of rapists who've claimed that, although their victims said 'no', they really meant 'yes'; their victims really wanted it but were reluctant to give in to their desires because of fear of what others would think or because of their social or religious upbringing.

You may find it hot and erotic but, fortunately, the law is now accepting that no means no and not 'maybe' or even 'no but', and those rapists are going behind bars. They'd better hope that the big prison bully standing behind them in the showers knows that 'no means no'!

It's a male fantasy that women become more self-confident by being raped and who is a rapist to decide if their victim is shackled by social norms?

Kantarii said:

Hmm.... not a popular topic to talk about on this message board,I see.

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It's been talked to death on this board and usually moves into screaming. Some are tired of the topic, I imagine.

Kantarii said:

Hmm.... not a popular topic to talk about on this message board,I see.

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I will again recommend this essay and the accompanying comments.

Seriously. Most of what you're about to see rehashed here is addressed there.

Carnal_Flower said:

Non Con is interesting bec it's (I think) the most highly read by females. Or maybe BDSM not sure. SO who cares what all the male commenters think, tossing in their two cents? I'm much more interested in what female readers have to say about it. Everyone else should just shut up.

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I'm not interested in writing anything Non Con but I like that whole theme of reluctance due to familial and cultural reasons. It's really interesting that despite all the PC bs from the feminazi's, non-con and reluctance is still one of those "most read" female fantasies. I have no idea about all the underlying psychobabble and I don't really care. I think mild bdsm sort of crosses into a lot of female fantasies - and I enjoy writing it as well as reading it.

I find them sexy sometimes as a fantasy. But only those where the victim can't help but get the guilty pleasures out of it, can't stop herself from cumming over ond over on her assailants dick.

If it is a very traumatic experience (which it always is in reality but not all the time in erotica), I them like to see scenes of redemption and vengeance. The victim being happy, the assailant dying a horrible death, and so on.

What I don't like are scenes of assault that leave the victim broken and traumatized with no pleasure at all.
I also don't like when it's a mere stepping stone to plunging the victim into darkness and leaving her there, ending the story on the dark note.

Green_Knight said:

If you look through court records, you'll find plenty of rapists who've claimed that, although their victims said 'no', they really meant 'yes'; their victims really wanted it but were reluctant to give in to their desires because of fear of what others would think or because of their social or religious upbringing.

You may find it hot and erotic but, fortunately, the law is now accepting that no means no and not 'maybe' or even 'no but', and those rapists are going behind bars. They'd better hope that the big prison bully standing behind them in the showers knows that 'no means no'!

It's a male fantasy that women become more self-confident by being raped and who is a rapist to decide if their victim is shackled by social norms?

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I fear you completely missed the entire point of my post. I am not turned on by rape in any form. The difference is that in your point, it is the rapist contending that the victim wanted it, while in my stories I can see into the mind of the reluctant one and I know that he/she actually does want it and is being constrained by idiotic social norms. If I am the reader, then for me to think the scene is hot, he/she has to actually come around and give consent before the sex starts.

And for the record, I have never asserted that a woman becomes more self-confident from being raped! That is pure outlandish bullshit! There are absolutely NO good consequences from rape and if the person male or female does not give explicit, unforced, consent prior to any sexual activity then it is rape no matter what bullshit the rapist claims afterward.

So please before you get all holier-than-thou on me, please take the time to read what I wrote. If you had read further than what you could twist to make you feel superior you might have noticed that I said that when the character does not want it, I despise it.

I do, actually, have to wonder if you did read my post and were so offended by my stance against rape that you felt the only response was an attack. So, perhaps you intentionally twisted my words and put words in my mouth to try and chase me off from the conversation. If that is the case, then please, run off to the stories and quickly one-bomb all of mine and leave nasty hateful comments about how horrible a person I am. Be sure to include vague references to poor grammar and racism. It won't actually make you feel better about yourself but hey it's worth a shot, right?

GoldenCojones said:

in my stories I can see into the mind of the reluctant one and I know that he/she actually does want it and is being constrained by idiotic social norms.

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That's pretty much what I use in my stories where someone was taken without being complicit in the act beforehand. Before a sex scene comes in, I establish that the person is open to it but reluctant or constrained for some reason to that point.

I've written some stories whose subjects had less-than-fully-consensual but non-resistant sex, usually with prior partners. I submitted one as LW but Laurel posted it as NC. Hey, it's her call. I note varied story tone and acceptance if the instigators are male or female. It seems okay for a sister to tie-up and use her brother, or for the 3 naked women in a guy's bed to strip and slurp his reluctant newly-arrived old GF.

I've also written of rapes but not as positive experiences. Rape is felonious assault; I punish my rapists. I've not yet explored a plot where initial consent turns to resistance, where "Yeah, let's" becomes "no, stop!" IMHO once consent stops, so does eroticism. What follows needs to be punished.

So, what about a story about punishing cheating with some non-con? Or how about a story about a girl who gets shipwrecked/lost in the wilderness and starts being hunted by horny natives?

GoldenCojones said:

I fear you completely missed the entire point of my post. I am not turned on by rape in any form. The difference is that in your point, it is the rapist contending that the victim wanted it, while in my stories I can see into the mind of the reluctant one and I know that he/she actually does want it and is being constrained by idiotic social norms. If I am the reader, then for me to think the scene is hot, he/she has to actually come around and give consent before the sex starts.

And for the record, I have never asserted that a woman becomes more self-confident from being raped! That is pure outlandish bullshit! There are absolutely NO good consequences from rape and if the person male or female does not give explicit, unforced, consent prior to any sexual activity then it is rape no matter what bullshit the rapist claims afterward.

So please before you get all holier-than-thou on me, please take the time to read what I wrote. If you had read further than what you could twist to make you feel superior you might have noticed that I said that when the character does not want it, I despise it.

I do, actually, have to wonder if you did read my post and were so offended by my stance against rape that you felt the only response was an attack. So, perhaps you intentionally twisted my words and put words in my mouth to try and chase me off from the conversation. If that is the case, then please, run off to the stories and quickly one-bomb all of mine and leave nasty hateful comments about how horrible a person I am. Be sure to include vague references to poor grammar and racism. It won't actually make you feel better about yourself but hey it's worth a shot, right?

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To misquote William Shakespeare, 'Methinks thou dost protest too much'. You may cry 'foul' and complain of your words being twisted but your own words are very clear:

I've written stories where one of the characters was reluctant because of social upbringing, fear of what others would think, that kind of stuff, but he/she really wanted it, they were just reluctant to give in to their desires.

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Maybe attitudes to rape and rape victims are different in Texas but as far as the law in many jurisdictions is concerned, a person who is 'reluctant to give in to their desires' is no more giving their consent to sex than someone who is dragged into the bushes by a stranger on a dark walk home. It doesn't matter whether it's a case of social norms or something else that's at the root of the person's reluctance. Without clear and unequivocal consent, it's still rape. So, too, is applying pressure or coercion on a reluctant person to turn 'no' into 'yes'.

Perhaps you'd like to talk to some of my colleagues – highly-trained police officers – who've had to deal with the victims of rape. You'd probably find talking about it to them (never mind the victims) a very harrowing experience but you would definitely come away with an altered perspective.

Only around 10 per cent of rapes are committed by 'strangers' – the sort of rapes you abhor. The rest are committed by men known to their victims, and often by someone who the victim has previously trusted or even loved – friends, colleagues, clients, neighbours, family members, partners or exes. Maybe even the sort of men who appear in your stories; I can't tell because you don't seem to have any non-consent stories under the GoldenCojones name.

The sub-title of the Non-Consent/Reluctance section makes it clear – it's about 'fantasies of control'. If your stories are truly about burgeoning relationships that eventually lead to sex in which no questions of coercion arise, then there are other sections into which they would fit very happily.

Yes, I know there are women who have fantasies of being forced into having sex against their will and no doubt they might enjoy stories of the type you've described – few, though, would want the fantasy to be turned into reality. But the problem I have with stories of this ilk is that you have no control over who reads them. I'm sure you're not so naïve as to believe that all Lit readers are sensible, well-balanced over-18s who can tell the difference between fiction and real-life. You'll have seen plenty of comments on Lit stories that will have disabused you of that idea. Do you really want to write stories that might persuade less-sensible or maladjusted readers that girls are naturally reluctant and it's quite ok to apply pressure to get them to change their minds?

Green_Knight
You are way over the top here. No one is talking about real world at all. Any kind of unconsensual sex in real world is a no-go, period.

When people talk about fantasies, it's more acceptable. And before you start complaining, we here are talking about rape fantasies, not rapist fantasies. The difference is that the reader is supposed to associate with the victim, not the assailant, and get the kicks from that.

Many people fantasize about being raped or forced. There's nothing wrong with that. It is objectively wrong to fantasize about raping someone else, enjoying their fear and helplessness, although I'd argue that as long as it stays a fantasy - that's totally fine. I fantasize about women being turned into slaves - it's not OK in reality, not even close, but it's totally fine in my head or as part of my stories. Doesn't mean I approve of such activities in any way or form.

It gets wrong only when such things happen or are attempted in reality. But that's a whole another topic of discussion, having nothing to do with literature, fantasy and this forum.
This forum is meant for authors to talk about writing tricks and the art of storytelling, the art of weaving fantasy into words. If you wanna talk about real-life rape morals - go to the General Board. Such things are discussed there, although I doubt you will find a good discussion, because the opinions (excluding deliberate trolling) will be largely the same.

Nezhul said:

Green_Knight
You are way over the top here. No one is talking about real world at all. Any kind of unconsensual sex in real world is a no-go, period.

When people talk about fantasies, it's more acceptable. And before you start complaining, we here are talking about rape fantasies, not rapist fantasies. The difference is that the reader is supposed to associate with the victim, not the assailant, and get the kicks from that.

Many people fantasize about being raped or forced. There's nothing wrong with that. It is objectively wrong to fantasize about raping someone else, enjoying their fear and helplessness, although I'd argue that as long as it stays a fantasy - that's totally fine. I fantasize about women being turned into slaves - it's not OK in reality, not even close, but it's totally fine in my head or as part of my stories. Doesn't mean I approve of such activities in any way or form.

It gets wrong only when such things happen or are attempted in reality. But that's a whole another topic of discussion, having nothing to do with literature, fantasy and this forum.
This forum is meant for authors to talk about writing tricks and the art of storytelling, the art of weaving fantasy into words. If you wanna talk about real-life rape morals - go to the General Board. Such things are discussed there, although I doubt you will find a good discussion, because the opinions (excluding deliberate trolling) will be largely the same.

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You are free, of course, to decide that there is no connection between the fantasy of porn and real life, though some would consider you naïve to do so. You may even be able to separate the two. But there is plenty to suggest that people's behaviour is influenced by the fantasies they see and read – otherwise the whole advertising industry would be out of business.

To take just one example: it may well be complete coincidence – and you will no doubt claim that it is – but the popularity of labiaplasty has grown in tandem with the growth of internet porn which tends to focus on women with tight slits between their legs and not a hint of inner labia showing. It is hard to argue that this is not a case of fantasy driving people's norms and expectations.

You are free, of course, to decide that there is no connection between the fantasy of porn and real life, though some would consider you naïve to do so. You may even be able to separate the two. But there is plenty to suggest that people's behaviour is influenced by the fantasies they see and read – otherwise the whole advertising industry would be out of business.

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Other people would argue that by providing enough fiel for feeding the fantasy, in the form of porn and erotica, you are providing enough outlet for people with such desires, and they don't have to go out and rape a woman on the street to get satisfies. They can just read a book or watch a piece of staged porn with an appropriate theme.

you are wrong by comparing it to advertisements. The underlying psychology and mechanics are absolutely different there.

To take just one example: it may well be complete coincidence – and you will no doubt claim that it is – but the popularity of labiaplasty has grown in tandem with the growth of internet porn which tends to focus on women with tight slits between their legs and not a hint of inner labia showing. It is hard to argue that this is not a case of fantasy driving people's norms and expectations.

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In fact it is very EASY to argue that.
What you are talking about is not the influence of a fantasy.
What you are talking about is called fashion and vogue. It's called popular trends, not the influence.
You are mixing cause and effect here.

Porn didn't chose this model of pussy to influence somebody in the first place. They chose it because men find it alluring.
Porn doesn't chose slim and fit models because they just want it like that - they did it because their target consumer likes it better.

What you referring to with labioplasty is not the influence. It's the cause of availability of choice and information, as well as proper technologies to pull such surgeries off.
In the past, people didn't have access to so much visual material, and didn't think much about which type of pussy they like better. A pussy was a pussy, period.
Now people can formulate their tastes, these tastes outline the porn inductry, and in turn it is making those tastes well-knows for women who may want to satisfy them.
It's like following fashion trends, wanting to be stylish. It's not about being brainwashed into liking A rather than B.

Rape or fetish fantasies is not something you start liking BECAUSE you watched some porn. In fact I got all of my fetish fantasies BEFORE watching any porn. I remember being wanting to be tied up and getting a hard-on out of it when I was in kindergarten. I didn't even know what the erection was FOR back then, and I was never abused or exposed to the concept of tying someone up or being tied up or restrained. I just got the fantasy.
I remember fantasizing about women in prison settings even before I knew there was in fact such porn available. I was very vanilla until I was 20, and then I watched a random clip on the net and found out there was such thing as BDSM and people actually did that. I never imagined this was even a consideration before.