prejudice or simple seperation of the races?

hydrex said:

This has been on tv a bit lately so I thought I'd stir up some shit here with it.

I have seen white people that want to seperate the races. Is that prejudice or simple seperation of the races?

There is also a white movement to stop all supposedly racial clubs and tv channels. You know B.E.T. the black entertainment channel, well some white people are saying they want a white entertainment channel. there are also black only clubs at colleges and what not.

What do you all think of this kind of thing? Do these white people have a legitimate argument or is it just racism?

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I think that the races are doing just fine by separating themselves. You mentioned B.E.T., that's one way, the clubs etc, are another. There are strictly black and white neighborhoods as well. People want to be 'treated as equals' yet, they go out of their way to keep themselves segregated.

Bent said:

I think that the races are doing just fine by separating themselves. You mentioned B.E.T., that's one way, the clubs etc, are another. There are strictly black and white neighborhoods as well. People want to be 'treated as equals' yet, they go out of their way to keep themselves segregated.

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What you descibe here is just people associating with people they are most comfortable with those who so happen to be their own cultural groups.

People dont assign a negative connatation when whites do it but only when coloured do it, funny huh? Racist actually.

Plenty of Whites even here say they have "lots of Black friends". But what sort of friendship is it?

To test it, get your Back friend to give you 20 questions about what is important to "black culture".

If you get more than 15 right, then it probably is a friendship of equality.

I predict most are just shallow friendships of assimiliation because white people are amazingly conceited and ignorant of what is important to other peoples. Its a trait that made it so easy to perpetrate evil with Colonisation.

Do your tests and report back.

medjay said:

I don't fear anything and I really would appreciate it if you'd refrain from telling me what I think and telling me what I feel. This is the second time in recent weeks you've elected to be snide with me over these kinds of issues and you need to check that at the door when talking to me, my friend.

It's easy for you to say that you don't give a rat's ass about the destiny of the black community because I suspect you don't live within one. I don't know the dynamics of your mixed race background but I do know that if you had your finger on the pulse of what's really going on in the black community you wouldn't be making all these grand philosophical statements. Our problems have to do with the now; your idealogical society of the future is not relevant to our current state of affairs.

All I have to do is look out my window to see the effects of gentrification in my neighborhood. My area is predominately black and it used to be very close-knit. It doesn't take a whole lot to see that this gentrification is negative for our community. Over the past few years I watched my community be completely transformed by outside forces. In the next few years my community will not exist because few of the people who live here will be able to afford property. It's either off to the suburbs with us or we can incur and lifetime of debt attempting to stay put. That's just the reality of the situation. It has nothing to do with loss of racial identity, it's about not having economic control of the area in which you live. If more people in my community had actually invested in the community we wouldn't have this problem.

The only way that you can imply that it's wrong for a community to strive for that sort of control is if you believe that it's fundamentally wrong for specific groups to want to live with one another. I know that flies in the face of your idea of a society without racial barriers but like I said, that's how it is and no amount of wishing or action is going to create a world where everyone lives happily with one another in one big melting pot. That's not defeatist, that's just reality. Psychological, sociological and anthropological fact. To be blunt once again: I'm not ashamed of, nor do I make any apologies for the fact that I like being black and I like living around other black people. This does not make me racist, this does not imply any ulterior motive, nor does it mean that I fear your utopia. All it boils down to is simple love of self and love of one's community and that's basic.

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Beautiful post, medjay. Thank you!

medjay said:

I don't fear anything and I really would appreciate it if you'd refrain from telling me what I think and telling me what I feel.

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Uh huh. And then...

medjay said:

It's easy for you to say that you don't give a rat's ass about the destiny of the black community because I suspect you don't live within one.

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...you proceed to do the same. Face it: on this issue, we're gonna violate this "rule" with one another again and again. Nature of the beast.

The reason I "don't give a rat's ass" is because a race of people choosing to become self-sufficient primarily through group segregation (rather than primarily finding success as individuals through principles of individuality) is subscribing to a racist ideology, and a decidedly un-American one. Different skin tones, different cultures, these occur naturally. Race does not. Race is a social construct meant to keep people of non-light-skinned hue in a lesser position. There are no "white" or "black" or "yellow" people...and there's no rule or law of nature saying anyone has to subscribe to that construct. But many people do for reasons not in the interest of progress.

medjay said:

your idealogical society of the future is not relevant to our current state of affairs.

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Quite a phrase. I wonder how many of our most noted leaders have heard that one before at some point in their lives? (How about all of them?)

If Martin Luther King Jr. had applied your logic here, there never would have been an I Have A Dream speech. It would've been an I Have A Mediocre But Tangible Solution For The Next Six Months speech.

medjay said:

The only way that you can imply that it's wrong for a community to strive for that sort of control is if you believe that it's fundamentally wrong for specific groups to want to live with one another. I know that flies in the face of your idea of a society without racial barriers but like I said, that's how it is and no amount of wishing or action is going to create a world where everyone lives happily with one another in one big melting pot.

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You keep repeating this word "wishing". I'm not talking about wishing; I'm talking about action. For instance, I have black friends (and family members) who'd gladly drive out Nation Of Islam members and separatists from their communities, because they consider themselves to be educated and they don't look for simple solutions (which ultimately mean a step backwards in the progression of their own success) to tough sociological problems.

medjay said:

To be blunt once again: I'm not ashamed of, nor do I make any apologies for the fact that I like being black and I like living around other black people.

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Thanks for clarifying.

RoryN said:

Uh huh. And then...

...you proceed to do the same.

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On the contrary, I didn't put words in your mouth or attempt to tell you what you were thinking. I made a guess about what kind of community you live in based on your comments and you can either tell me that I'm right or I'm wrong.

The reason I "don't give a rat's ass" is because a race of people choosing to become self-sufficient primarily through group segregation (rather than primarily finding success as individuals through principles of individuality) is subscribing to a racist ideology, and a decidedly un-American one. Different skin tones, different cultures, these occur naturally. Race does not. Race is a social construct meant to keep people of non-light-skinned hue in a lesser position. There are no "white" or "black" or "yellow" people...

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You continue to toss around the word "segregation" when I have yet to apply that term to any of my posts. You're trying to saddle me with this term and all of its negative connotations yet nowhere have I endorsed segregation or given the idea that I believe in it. Also, you keep painting this as a race issue after several other people here have already come to the conclusion that race is not a factor. Go reread Pyper's post about that so you can get up to speed.

You keep repeating this word "wishing". I'm not talking about wishing; I'm talking about action. For instance, I have black friends (and family members) who'd gladly drive out Nation Of Islam members and separatists from their communities, because they consider themselves to be educated and they don't look for simple solutions (which ultimately mean a step backwards in the progression of their own success) to tough sociological problems.

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What "action"? You talked before about minorities not having "enough creativity to shy away from the very institutions of thought which oppress them". I'm still waiting for you to tell me what these creative and visionary actions are. So far all you've done is use this issue as a springboard to vent your anti-Nation of Islam rants which have nothing to do with anything that we're talking about. I don't pay any attention to Farrakhan and his ilk. They are a non-entity to me and not a relevant topic for this discussion.

I want you to give me some concrete and workable plans for black people to implement in their communites. That might be hard since you "don't give a rat's ass about the black community" but humor me because you insist on telling me that I'm wrong but have nothing but your own emotionally biased experiences to back that up. So far you've endorsed driving out segregationists and realizing a society without racial barriers; great sounding ideas, but you've offered no guidelines or steps for putting this in motion. You can't accuse me of being simplistic when the foundations of your own ideas are thin as ether.

What's simplistic is your belief that one day when we're all dead and gone our children will reap the benifits of the colorblind utopia and if we only strive for that goal things will all work out fine. Like I said, that's wishful thinking that only serves to lull folks into ignoring the fact that people are poor and unemployed right now. People's neighborhoods are crumbling right now. People need concrete economic plans right now. You can quote MLK all you like but remember that while he was making his I Have a Dream speech, his actions were all about helping the downtrodden and oppressed right in the here and now. You present me with some quotes that show MLK endorsed black people being poor and on welfare all their lives then maybe I'll believe that Dr. King was not a fan of black economic empowerment.

You need to get over whatever hang-ups you have about racial issues and look at the bigger picture. Black people as a collective in this country are economically disadvantaged and the only people who can change that status is us. We can't wait for anyone else to come along and help us. We can't just sit back and wait for King's dream to come true. The old proverb stating "give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day; teach him how to fish and he'll eat forever" applies here. It's time for black folks to start fishing for themselves and stop waiting for others to give them the fish.

medjay said:

Black people as a collective in this country are economically disadvantaged and the only people who can change that status is us. We can't wait for anyone else to come along and help us. We can't just sit back and wait for King's dream to come true. The old proverb stating "give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day; teach him how to fish and he'll eat forever" applies here. It's time for black folks to start fishing for themselves and stop waiting for others to give them the fish.

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Great discussion, guys. I am truly enjoying reading both of your points of view. I tend to agree more with medjay, though. The paragraph that I exerpted above is, to me the crux of the argument. I would like to believe what Rory is saying, but from watching this struggle for more than 40 years, I know that racism is still very powerful in this society and that no progress will be made that is not forced by black communities. And the gains that will be earned through the organized efforts of the black community will, in the end, be more valuable than if those same efforts were handed out to them. Change that is needed to this wide and pervasive degree will only happen through organized initiative. Fortunately, we are in a position now where there is enough wealth in the black communities that self-empowerment of this nature is realistically possible. that wasn't the case 40 years ago.

YogiBare said:

Fortunately, we are in a position now where there is enough wealth in the black communities that self-empowerment of this nature is realistically possible. that wasn't the case 40 years ago.

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Yes. There is light visible at the end of the tunnel. Our economic self-empowerment is doable. The only thing the black community needs to do now is get rid of all the Jesse Jacksons and other glory-hounds of his ilk. Get rid of these clowns cluttering up our nation's press and airwaves hollering about reparations. Get rid of all these so-called black leaders who do nothing but polarize the races. Do away with the liberal-think that has handicapped our progress.

Most important, what we need to do is just tell everyone else to mind their own business and leave us to work out our problems on our own. The house of the black community is out of order and we need to take the time to fix it without any interferance from others, well-meaning or otherwise. It'll take time and effort but we will eventually get our house in order and place ourselves on the same socio-economic plane as other Americans. Then we will be able to truly coexist with others and hold our heads up as productive members of society.

medjay said:

Yes. There is light visible at the end of the tunnel. Our economic self-empowerment is doable. The only thing the black community needs to do now is get rid of all the Jesse Jacksons and other glory-hounds of his ilk. Get rid of these clowns cluttering up our nation's press and airwaves hollering about reparations. Get rid of all these so-called black leaders who do nothing but polarize the races. Do away with the liberal-think that has handicapped our progress.

Most important, what we need to do is just tell everyone else to mind their own business and leave us to work out our problems on our own. The house of the black community is out of order and we need to take the time to fix it without any interferance from others, well-meaning or otherwise. It'll take time and effort but we will eventually get our house in order and place ourselves on the same socio-economic plane as other Americans. Then we will be able to truly coexist with others and hold our heads up as productive members of society.

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I think that there's a lot of wisdom in what you're saying. There's a second piece though that still needs to be addressed, and that's ongoing white racism. We're certainly better than we were, but there was still disenfranchisement of blacks in the last election, there's horrible institutional racism that makes it much more difficult for blacks to practice the kind of self-help and economic empowerment that you speak of. White society plays an important role in maintaining the poverty, high addiction, murder and inprisonment rates, especially effecting young black men. White society is still reluctant or unwilling to give up its stranglehold and there is still a necessary fight to fight.

YogiBare said:

I think that there's a lot of wisdom in what you're saying. There's a second piece though that still needs to be addressed, and that's ongoing white racism. We're certainly better than we were, but there was still disenfranchisement of blacks in the last election, there's horrible institutional racism that makes it much more difficult for blacks to practice the kind of self-help and economic empowerment that you speak of. White society plays an important role in maintaining the poverty, high addiction, murder and inprisonment rates, especially effecting young black men. White society is still reluctant or unwilling to give up its stranglehold and there is still a necessary fight to fight.

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Now you're talking about things I don't have ready answers for. If I knew the cure for racism I'd be a famous guy right now with buildings named after me.

The main thing I fall back on when it comes to this is the old saying, "Money talks and bullshit walks". People who are savvy to the ins and outs of our society know that racsim is really just a smokescreen; something to keep the minds of busybodies occupied. The real issue that confronts people all over the globe is classism. Which is why I maintain that economic empowerment is the only way to go. When you control money you command respect regardless of your skin color. I could be dealing with some white man and know that deep in his heart he thinks I'm nothing more than a spear-chucking jigaboo. But if I'm in control of my financial destiny there isn't a damn thing he can say or do to me.

Contrary to what more radical blacks believe (and this is the category I suspect RoryN has mistakenly placed me), I don't think there is some vast conspiracy to keep black people down. I don't buy the idea of secret groups of malevolent whites sitting around thinking up new and improved ways to stick it to the coloreds.

The truth is way simpler. The whites who are in positions powerful enough to affect the lives of others genuinely just don't give a shit about black people. We don't affect their financial bottom line thus we are non-entites to them. Out of sight, out of mind. But this doesn't just apply to black people. It applies to all poor people. Once you begin to develop a system of economic strength and stability they will take notice of you. They may not like you but they will treat you with respect. And right now that's the most anyone can ask. Live and let live.

hydrex said:

You make sense. I'm not speaking of the ones that white people can join I am speaking of the ones they can't.

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What clubs are there that white people can't join? In my BSA [black student association] we had quite a few white kids that were members.

And there is a white entertainment network, it's called Mtv. Why the fuck are we all worried about it anyway? What difference does it make who's white and who's black and where they go to chill at? As long as everybody is cool, things are cool. It's when muthafuckas start differentiating [both whites and blacks... along with every other race] that shit gets twisted, stupid and, immature.

-deezle- said:

What clubs are there that white people can't join?

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I was going to ask this then I decided not to bother because the answer is 'none'.

This thread is interesting as a social commentary because as much as the topic is turned back to it being all about the right or validity of individual cultural or sectarian groups to congregate into commumities, the only commumity people worry about is the the effect of Black people doing it.

That is straightout prejudice in thought and action, where clearly Irish, Italians, Greeks, Chinese all have "seperatist" communities in record.
No-one questions their allegiance to the general welfare of the wider community even though their groups are often very tight and very exclusionary by language.

Americans just have a thing about Black people and it is related to the way they have been held down by racially prejudicial laws and societal controls since the Civil War. Its going to take more than 40 years to grow out of it but recognising it when it happens is a major step in being able to overcome the prejudice.

It is when a black man is allowed to do what a Greek does , without question of racial motives, that indicates a big step towards equality.

medjay said:

The real issue that confronts people all over the globe is classism. Which is why I maintain that economic empowerment is the only way to go. When you control money you command respect regardless of your skin color.

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This is the heart of the matter.

One only needs to watch western oilmen fawning over Middle Eastern oil Emirates to see that money is the key to western class and respect.

medjay said:

On the contrary, I didn't put words in your mouth or attempt to tell you what you were thinking. I made a guess about what kind of community you live in based on your comments and you can either tell me that I'm right or I'm wrong.

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You suggested that my knowledge was limited because I don't live in a black community. It's not limited - it's different. I have perspective you don't, and vice versa.

medjay said:

You continue to toss around the word "segregation" when I have yet to apply that term to any of my posts.

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You don't have to overtly state it; it's showing up in your posts. I revisit one quote here to demonstrate:

medjay said:

Currently, the black community in America is one of the only ones that remains poor when it doesn't need to be. This is because black people have not taken control of their own communities and do not excercise their considerable economic power. That has to do with capitalism, not democracy, and capitalism is the real foundation of this nation. Once black people seriously start investing their money on business ventures and property instead of spending all their money on expensive clothes and luxury cars we'll start to see the tide turning when it comes to our grave economic state. I see this as a major goal we need to accomplish.

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First off, a justification for segregation is claiming successes and faults belong en masse to one race. Lumping the culture of spending money on clothes and cars with the habits of all black people ("the black community in America", as you put it) doesn't seem to be fair or accurate to me, and that's what you've done here. When you try to hammer home a point of financial responsibility for a race of people by using only a portion of that population's behavior, the foundation of your argument suffers greatly. Secondly, doing so is an act of racism in itself, surely as if I attributed aristocratic country club behavior or CEO fraud with all white people. Painting in broad strokes is always a conduit to prejudice. And, in this case, it's just not true. Furthermore, thinking like this usually leads to Band-Aid type solutions because politicians and the like think (or claim) that they're addressing the needs of the entire population, when they're not taking the big picture into consideration. There's the explanation for the dire straits. But, I digress...

Another key component of segregation is the idea of self-sufficiency within races. Self-sufficiency sounds good in theory - and it is ideal, on an individual level, divided from the convention of race. But you mention the financial independence of black people as one racial collective, as a sign on prosperity and achieving equality, and that's problematic.

Money is colorblind; people aren't. Cash, credit, whatever, flows based on our conventions of capitalism + whatever biases or millions of other factors that figure in. Therefore, the white-made dollar should be just as valuable to the black man as the black-made dollar is to the white one. The financial stability of individuals depends on themselves and other individuals, not on one race fighting for itself. You want black people to invest in themselves, to focus on circulating money more within their own communities as a means of independence? Good; you can rot on your own when things get bad, and I'll count it as "darkey" not being smart enough to do things correctly, justifying my denying you to work as equals in order to grab a slice of the pie. Or.......I'll throw out that thinking, make legit money and spend it on education, making wiser decisions electing public officials, make connections across the country in the business I conduct with all races of people, and thus seek a little bit of prosperity for myself and, as a result, others, who'll have followed the example that's not my own, but one of a democratic society.

That's the American ideal, right? Oh, but I get it: it doesn't work. Therefore, we give up on it? Instead of scrutinizing the economy as a whole for all people and focusing on where it's breaking down, we pull ourselves into separate factions and focus our financial efforts on our own communities on the basis of race? I can think of a few other countries that do this - but, frankly, that's not what I signed up for. That's segregation, and it's not productive.

medjay said:

capitalism is the real foundation of this nation

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You praise the idea of teaching a man to fish rather than having fish handed to him, but then you insist that fishing is the only thing that matters (or, even worse in your example, you insinuate that, in our capitalistic society, gaining wealth is the logical way to define the worth of a race of people). No, I don't believe that's true. I'm sorry so many people place this high a value on money nowadays; it's making them retarded when it comes to anything other than a nickel, which is why they suffer financially. You're adding to a catch-22.

medjay said:

Also, you keep painting this as a race issue after several other people here have already come to the conclusion that race is not a factor.

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Race has been a factor throughout this entire thread, hence the title and the content. I'm not here to endure doublespeak; please, spare me.

medjay said:

Like I said, that's wishful thinking that only serves to lull folks into ignoring the fact that people are poor and unemployed right now. People's neighborhoods are crumbling right now. People need concrete economic plans right now.

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What's more valuable: creating solutions now that won't solve any of the underlying issues causing the problems, or working towards definite change, attacking the underlying issues head-on and make these problems a non-issue in the future? I'm not willing to work on one if it negates the other, which is what I think this plan of focusing on one race's economic prosperity will do.

medjay said:

You talked before about minorities not having "enough creativity to shy away from the very institutions of thought which oppress them". I'm still waiting for you to tell me what these creative and visionary actions are.

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Amend that with "some minorities", to begin with.

As to ideas: you won't like them but, here goes: shrug off your racial identification; place it in the same class as eye color. The first step towards not having others diminish you because of your race is to not embrace the same train of thought leading to that discrimination.

You say, impossible. You say, I would never want to. You say, even if I wanted to, others will label me regardless of what I do. Well, it's not impossible; it's a matter of perception, controlled by one's brain. Enough minds change = breaking down of old conventions. Race is an institution, and all institutions eventually outlive their usefulness. Show me one that hasn't, or one that couldn't potentially fall into that category, and then we'll take that on. Otherwise, I stand by it. Possibly the biggest threat to our society today is trying to keep alive institutions which have overstayed their welcome.

As far as people wanting to retain their "racial identity", their "roots", assign major portions of their makeup as a human being to what color thier skin and the skin of their relatives is, measure the percentage of mythical "color blood" pumping through their veins, they can feel free. I find the whole thing ludicrous and, furthermore, I can assure you that those who hung or currently hang black people or have shot or shoot white people due to their own racism place the same weight on those conventions.

Yes; I just lumped violent racists with people who merely identify themselves as one race or the other. It's not my fault they have something quite concrete in common. But they can kill the messenger if it makes them feel better.

RoryN said:

You suggested that my knowledge was limited because I don't live in a black community. It's not limited - it's different. I have perspective you don't, and vice versa.

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Yes , it is limited and yes, it is different because you haven't been exposed to overt and covert demeaning racist forces all your life.

You have to walk a mile in his shoes.....

You viewpoint seems more to do with assimiliation into the existing culture rather than with the concept of true equality where every culture is valid but the wider community coexists in harmony.

RoryN said:

Race has been a factor throughout this entire thread, hence the title and the content. I'm not here to endure doublespeak; please, spare me.

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You're the one making this a race issue. I'm talking in socio-economic terms. Race plays a part in the discussion but it's bigger than that. You've ground in your heels and put on your blinders for this argument so all your comments are single-minded.

You say, impossible. You say, I would never want to. You say, even if I wanted to, others will label me regardless of what I do.

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I didn't say any of these things. I asked you before not to put words in my mouth or infer meanings in my statements that do not exist. It's rude and disrespectful. Everything I've said in this thread is crystal clear. There is no ambiguity to my statements. Either you don't understand what I'm saying or your intention is to twist my words to fit your agenda. Either way, you need to do better.

woody54 said:

Yes , it is limited and yes, it is different because you haven't been exposed to overt and covert demeaning racist forces all your life.

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How do you know that? Especially considering that half my family is black?

woody54 said:

You viewpoint seems more to do with assimiliation into the existing culture rather than with the concept of true equality where every culture is valid but the wider community coexists in harmony.

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1. Not existing culture. Existing culture recognises race as a primary identifier.
2. The "true equality" concept you mention speaks of culture and that's not the same as race.

medjay said:

I didn't say any of these things.

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I made presumptions based on your posts and attitudes about racial identification.

Am I wrong? Okay. Then, say possible, You would want to, others won't label me regardless of what I do. Otherwise, you're splitting hairs.

RoryN said:

How do you know that? Especially considering that half my family is black?



1. Not existing culture. Existing culture recognises race as a primary identifier.
2. The "true equality" concept you mention speaks of culture and that's not the same as race.

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It is a conclusion I drew from your posts. Seeing race as a primary identifier is really the root cause of the problem here because it makes one automatically grade on colour, that is wrong. That means Blacks are continually disadvantaged by having a higher melatonin level than caucasians rather than their contribution to society.

Arguably, for the "black" race in the US, it has in fact, a culture clearly its own but, that is beside the point that in an equal society, neither should be a limitation for acceptance.

If say, a commercially related group get together to form an economic alliance, this is not seen as negative development because the group prospers. Explain again why it is bad for a cultural group with a common interest in their survival to do the same thing when it is open for all to trade there if they so please. I struggle to see the difference.
It is not a reversal of white racism where minorities were excluded.

RoryN said:

Am I wrong? Okay. Then, say possible, You would want to, others won't label me regardless of what I do. Otherwise, you're splitting hairs.

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I don't have to say anything. And it's not splitting hairs. If you want to talk about hypotheticals do me a favor and leave me out of them.

I'm right here so you can ask me directly how I feel about any given topic. Don't presume to tell me what I think. I don't take kindly to snide attitudes.

medjay said:

I'm right here so you can ask me directly how I feel about any given topic. Don't presume to tell me what I think.

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I just did. You didn't answer. So..was I right, or was I wrong? Is the aforementioned your attitude, or isn't it?

I think you're just angry because I made a presumption and put words in your mouth...and was right on the mark in the process.

woody54 said:

That means Blacks are continually disadvantaged by having a higher melatonin level than caucasians rather than their contribution to society.

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Yeah. That's called racism.

woody54 said:

Arguably, for the "black" race in the US, it has in fact, a culture clearly its own but...

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Really? Here's an exercise: you and medjay define the culture of the black race in America at the same time. We'll see how "clear" it is.

woody54 said:

Explain again why it is bad for a cultural group with a common interest in their survival to do the same thing when it is open for all to trade there if they so please. I struggle to see the difference.
It is not a reversal of white racism where minorities were excluded.

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I don't have the energy to. If you don't understand my viewpoint by now, you never will. That doesn't make me right; it just makes me tired.

RoryN said:

I just did. You didn't answer. So..was I right, or was I wrong? Is the aforementioned your attitude, or isn't it?

I think you're just angry because I made a presumption and put words in your mouth...and was right on the mark in the process.

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No, you didn't ask me. You demanded that I make a statement opposite of the one you applied to me the first time. Don't kick your heels up and proclaim victory just because I'm not stupid enough to get into a pointless back and forth with you.

Look dude, I'm a grown man and I'm hip to all the tactics people use to try and goad others into arguments. I don't play that way. I also don't allow my words to be twisted. That's all you've done the past few pages. Remember, you started all this when you reworded a quote of mine to read like Aryan propoganda (particularly offensive since it was unprovoked). I let that slide but I'm tired of it now.

I'm perfectly willing to have a productive and intelligent conversation with you but not if you insist on acting like an asshole.

RoryN said:

Really? Here's an exercise: you and medjay define the culture of the black race in America at the same time. We'll see how "clear" it is.

.

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AS an outsider I can only speculate but it is plainly obvious to all that black people stick together because they want to be there because that is where they are most comfortable. It is those factors that create this comfort zone that form the basis of the culture and can be as wide as church, music, food, language, sport, streetlife, etc. They are born into this comfort zone which is why it is important to them and that cant be changed by arbitrary societal rules that frown on such associations because they are seen as some form of threat.
Greeks and Chinese club together for exactly the same reasons and no-one questions whether they have a common culture. But then they arent Black.

medjay said:

You're the one making this a race issue. I'm talking in socio-economic terms. Race plays a part in the discussion but it's bigger than that. You've ground in your heels and put on your blinders for this argument so all your comments are single-minded.

"your mind is completely closed to any outside information that may make you see how wrong you are...back to ignore for you..."
- hydrex



I didn't say any of these things. I asked you before not to put words in my mouth or infer meanings in my statements that do not exist. It's rude and disrespectful. Everything I've said in this thread is crystal clear. There is no ambiguity to my statements. Either you don't understand what I'm saying or your intention is to twist my words to fit your agenda. Either way, you need to do better.

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twist words is what he does best next to arguing for arguments sake.

I fail to see how BET or White People TV is "seperating the races".

RoryN said:

I don't have the energy to. If you don't understand my viewpoint by now, you never will. That doesn't make me right; it just makes me tired.

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Hmmm. This is the same cop-out he used in the last thread where he was making unsubstantiated claims about racism. He went on a tirade about how the films Barbershop and Beautyshop we coon shows and an insult to the black community. When he was confronted by several black people who had actually seen Barbershop and argued that it was really a tasteful and respectful portrayal of black life he proceeded to insult folks, said that since we didn't agree with him we weren't big picture thinkers, then claimed he was too tired/upset to continue the conversation. I called bullshit on him and asked directly if he'd ever seen the movie he was badmouthing. He never replied. Well, I'm calling bullshit again. Put up or shut up.

I think I've picked up on RoryN's M.O. He starts arguments, dismisses anyone with a dissenting point of view with smug and haughty comments, and when he's confronted with a valid point that doesn't mesh with his ideas he bails out citing sleepiness as an excuse. I will no longer be composing any long and thought-out posts in reply to this dude because he does not respect them.