COVID-19 RESOURCES
LIT CAMS (200 Free Tokens)ADULT TOYSVOD MOVIES

UAW Strike - Tentative Deal Reached - Pending Vote

jaF0 said:
I don't mostly due to the cost. And used ones apparently don't have much value due to the replacement cost of batteries. And then well, you can't work on them yourself, so service and repair costs are high. Insurance costs are high due to the parts costs and fire risk.

You don't even save on gas taxes in some places that now assess a per mile use tax of some type annually.
Click to expand...
You tried working on an ICE recently? Got ten grand for a scanner? My Ev replacement battery price is $2500.00 (new reconditioned are cheaper) and about 4 hours labour. That isn't gona break anyone's bank account.
 
I think I understand the union strategy of rolling strikes. They don’t have to pay all of their workers if everyone isn’t on strike. I’m not sure about those who are laid off because of striking workers, but it always comes down to money. The union probably doesn’t have enough to support everyone striking at the same time. Also when the new contract is agreed upon and the before mentioned 40% reduction in needed labor goes into effect for electric vehicles, this hurts the union in the wallet as well. This may be why they want a 32 hour work week. Cutting everyone’s hours so they don’t need to cut too many jobs. They can’t think the car manufacturers are dumb enough to get fooled by this. It’s a race to see who hits their breaking point first.
 
Chobham said:
And as usual, you're wrong. They make perfect sense for commuting in an urban/suburban environment. One son has a Tesla as a second car and he loves it, but he won't do a long distance road trip with it. For that he uses a 'gas hog.' For my purposes an EV would make sense for about 1/2 of my driving given that I'm not going to support two automobiles for a 50/50 situation I'll stick with gas/diesel.

Bottom line is that their usefulness is highly situational and in many cases doesn't overcome the downside. We have no way of efficiently recycling the batteries and replacing the batteries is horrendously expensive (one of the reasons they're traded in early). Charging stations are not fully deployed and there is an issue with many of them not working at all and even worse being faulty and damaging the car. Another draw back is the grid itself. For example, CA only generates approx. 1/2 of the energy it uses and the power infrastructure is lagging behind demand and this is true for many other states as well. The proposed goals far exceed what the extended infrastructure will support.
Click to expand...
I never said everyone wanted one, you dipshit. Of course some people really don't want one at all. Demand in the US is at around 30%...which is impressive and growing.

The infrastructure is quickly being built out. Your view of the world is myopic.
 
ll74 said:
I never said everyone wanted one, you dipshit. Of course some people really don't want one at all. Demand in the US is at around 30%...which is impressive and growing.

The infrastructure is quickly being built out. Your view of the world is myopic.
Click to expand...
No it isn't. If anything it's a hell of a lot more realistic than yours. The only thing you're right about is that we'll get there................eventually. But it's not going to happen in the artificial time frame certain politicians and rainbow/unicorn people would believe.

Ever heard of the Pareto principle? If not you should read the link. It applies in areas you would never conceive of.

In the late 1970's I worked a project that involved writing code to control the motors for electric vehicles. This was at Los Alamos, GM donated 3 vehicles for the experiments, Buick Skylarks. This involved taking a mechanical motion, pressing the accelerator pedal, and translating it into power to the wheels. Not anywhere as trivial as it sounds. All sorts of 'fail safes' had to be built into the hardware and the code. ie. not moving when it should and moving when it shouldn't. All potentially fatal situations. Then there are the random failures of the control systems as a result of things like alpha particles crapping out a memory location or causing a bit in the processor to change state, rare but real (and probably explains some of the random EV accidents reported where the driver lost control of the power state).

Now, the 30 years that transpired from the time of those projects to the time that Tesla became a real Company represents the 20% increment of time. We still have 80%, time wise, to go before the products are truly mature.

For the curious, one vehicle was configured as an all electric (batteries and motors), one as a fuel cell/battery hybrid (ala Toyota's offering), and one as a pure fuel cell (big failure).

One last point, this is ancient shit to me.
 
Chobham said:
No it isn't. If anything it's a hell of a lot more realistic than yours. The only thing you're right about is that we'll get there................eventually. But it's not going to happen in the artificial time frame certain politicians and rainbow/unicorn people would believe.

Ever heard of the Pareto principle? If not you should read the link. It applies in areas you would never conceive of.

In the late 1970's I worked a project that involved writing code to control the motors for electric vehicles. This was at Los Alamos, GM donated 3 vehicles for the experiments, Buick Skylarks. This involved taking a mechanical motion, pressing the accelerator pedal, and translating it into power to the wheels. Not anywhere as trivial as it sounds. All sorts of 'fail safes' had to be built into the hardware and the code. ie. not moving when it should and moving when it shouldn't. All potentially fatal situations. Then there are the random failures of the control systems as a result of things like alpha particles crapping out a memory location or causing a bit in the processor to change state, rare but real (and probably explains some of the random EV accidents reported where the driver lost control of the power state).

Now, the 30 years that transpired from the time of those projects to the time that Tesla became a real Company represents the 20% increment of time. We still have 80%, time wise, to go before the products are truly mature.

For the curious, one vehicle was configured as an all electric (batteries and motors), one as a fuel cell/battery hybrid (ala Toyota's offering), and one as a pure fuel cell (big failure).

One last point, this is ancient shit to me.
Click to expand...
You just don't realize how far along the infrastructure actually is.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/27/ev-charging-stations-on-highways-dot-approves-50-states-plans.html

And battery tech is even further. Toyotas new EVs are using a much more efficient and safer battery, for example.

Either way, the investment is working....the EV market isnt going away.
 
ll74 said:
You just don't realize how far along the infrastructure actually is.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/27/ev-charging-stations-on-highways-dot-approves-50-states-plans.html

And battery tech is even further. Toyotas new EVs are using a much more efficient and safer battery, for example.

Either way, the investment is working....the EV market isnt going away.
Click to expand...
The "infrastructure" is NOT ready and it won't be ready to support the fucking governments edicts in the time frame given.

BTW, did you actually READ the article you linked?
 
Chobham said:
The "infrastructure" is NOT ready and it won't be ready to support the fucking governments edicts in the time frame given.

BTW, did you actually READ the article you linked?
Click to expand...
It is ready. For most people in the suburbs and even many in rural areas, it's ready.

I read it. Our infrastructure build out is ahead of sales and interests.
 
Chobham said:
The "infrastructure" is NOT ready and it won't be ready to support the fucking governments edicts in the time frame given.

BTW, did you actually READ the article you linked?
Click to expand...
This one might help.....

As EVs Take Off Can The Electric Grid Keep Up With Demand?​

Tl;Dr - the growth is gradual enough and infrastructure growth is ahead of that pace by quite a bit. So if people shut off current and planned infrastructure development, then of course we will fall behind in time.

We all know which administrations have invested in infrastructure and which ones have not.
Regulators, utilities and grid operators generally contend that the U.S. has enough energy generation capacity to cover the EVs likely to be on the road through at least 2025, and possibly 2030. But there are plenty of skeptics who question whether the grid can deliver.

“The important thing to expect is that EV growth will be gradual,” said Gary Silberg, a partner and global automotive sector leader with KPMG. Even at 50% of annual new vehicle sales, it will take decades before the majority of the U.S. fleet is battery-powered. “It’s going to come over time which, as long as you’re planning for it, allows you to be ready,” he said.
Click to expand...
 
Again, did you really read what you posted? "Likely to be on the road through at least 2025." I don't dispute that, what I do dispute is the gross political disconnect. For example;

"The governor of New Mexico, Michelle Lujan Grisham has announced a plan requiring vehicle manufacturers to provide an increasing number of electric models in the state over the next ten years. She will use an executive order to pass the measure.

Once it has passed, the Advanced Clean Cars & Advanced Trucks rule will require manufacturers to ensure at least 43% of all cars and at least 15% of all trucks sold in New Mexico are electric models by the 2026 calendar year. Over time, those percentage levels will grow to 82% for cars and between 40% and 75% for trucks, with rates depending on their class, by 2034." LINK

That EO has been signed. See the 2026 goal? Match that to what you posted re. 2025. Currently 0.15% of all vehicles registered in NM are EV's. (Nationally less than 1% are EV's, significantly less. CA has the largest percentage at 1.43%.) There is NO WAY that 43% goal will be achieved. And exactly how is the state going to enforce it? Force the dealerships out of business? The people in this state will just drive to TX, of some other state, to buy their new vehicle rather than be stuck with what the dealers will be required to keep in inventory.
 
Chobham said:
Again, did you really read what you posted? "Likely to be on the road through at least 2025." I don't dispute that, what I do dispute is the gross political disconnect. For example;

"The governor of New Mexico, Michelle Lujan Grisham has announced a plan requiring vehicle manufacturers to provide an increasing number of electric models in the state over the next ten years. She will use an executive order to pass the measure.

Once it has passed, the Advanced Clean Cars & Advanced Trucks rule will require manufacturers to ensure at least 43% of all cars and at least 15% of all trucks sold in New Mexico are electric models by the 2026 calendar year. Over time, those percentage levels will grow to 82% for cars and between 40% and 75% for trucks, with rates depending on their class, by 2034." LINK

That EO has been signed. See the 2026 goal? Match that to what you posted re. 2025. Currently 0.15% of all vehicles registered in NM are EV's. (Nationally less than 1% are EV's, significantly less. CA has the largest percentage at 1.43%.) There is NO WAY that 43% goal will be achieved. And exactly how is the state going to enforce it? Force the dealerships out of business? The people in this state will just drive to TX, of some other state, to buy their new vehicle rather than be stuck with what the dealers will be required to keep in inventory.
Click to expand...
Ok, did you read what you wrote? What does the executive order do?

It is the manufacturing and new car sales.goals. ...not the infrastructure. I'm not debating EV sales goals.

The infrastructure is the electricity and roads. That is keeping pace with sales, which is exactly what the sources I provided show. That is what you keep saying isn't keeping pace in the face of evidence contrary.
 
It looks like they have made.progress on a few areas (benefits, cost of living funding and permanent status for temp workers over 90 days), while still at odds over other (specifically the pay raise issue). The strokes have expanded into plants in 20 states.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/ford-says-significant-gaps-remain-uaw-strike-negotiations
(I noticed that the article's headline is very pro business)
The UAW broadened its strike against General Motors and Stellantis – the parent company of brands like Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep and Ram – on Friday with the announcement of new strikes at 38 parts distribution centers across 20 states.

The move affected about 5,600 union workers from GM and Stellantis, bringing the total number of UAW members on strike to roughly 18,300 across the Big Three. The ongoing strike has caused work stoppages at facilities where union members aren’t on strike, resulting in temporary layoffs due to the lack of work.
Click to expand...
 
Chobham said:
In the late 1970's I worked a project that involved writing code to control the motors for electric vehicles.
Click to expand...
You did what now? You wrote code for analog controls? Really. in what fucking science fiction world was this???
Chobham said:
One last point, this is ancient shit to me.
Click to expand...
What code did you use, was it ICON or SNOBLO based??? Please tell me how this is ancient shit??? There are only 5 PCL languages, so which one(s) was it?
 
There is some real animosity towards the union. Maybe it’s the location, but I saw the story where racial slurs were hurled at the picketers, then the guy got out of his car and tried to attack. He was beat back by the union and drove off. Uncalled for and he should get arrested for assault.

Still not looking good for them.
 
GM Reports $3.1 Billion Profit, Despite UAW Strike Hit

“General Motors posted a strong third-quarter profit despite a hit from the United Auto Workers strike, which now is draining about $200 million a week from its bottom line.

“GM also scrapped a self-imposed target for the number of electric vehicles it will produce through the middle of next year due to slackening demand for the technology, a surprising move for a company that had been an early mover in the space.”

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/...jgr0j2ok13z8q0b&reflink=article_copyURL_share
 
BabyBoomer50s said:
GM Reports $3.1 Billion Profit, Despite UAW Strike Hit

“General Motors posted a strong third-quarter profit despite a hit from the United Auto Workers strike, which now is draining about $200 million a week from its bottom line.

“GM also scrapped a self-imposed target for the number of electric vehicles it will produce through the middle of next year due to slackening demand for the technology, a surprising move for a company that had been an early mover in the space.”

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/...jgr0j2ok13z8q0b&reflink=article_copyURL_share
Click to expand...
And? Having a backlog of inventory finally being sold does that.
 
ll74 said:
And? Having a backlog of inventory finally being sold does that.
Click to expand...
Also, and this is my experience, the big three offer nothing in EV's, with the exception of the Ford Lightning. (which I did consider) and the Escape Hybrid. But given I don't have the need for a full sized pick up, I opted for an SUV. I ended up getting a Toyota Rav4, and ordered a Rav 4 Prime. The next down the line were Kia Spectra and Honda CVT then the Ford Escape.

So if the big three want to be leaders in the EV's or Hybrid market make something buyers want.

Note: none of GM's products even made my "look at list"...which is why they have such a backlog,
 
Fuzzy1975 said:
Also, and this is my experience, the big three offer nothing in EV's, with the exception of the Ford Lightning. (which I did consider) and the Escape Hybrid. But given I don't have the need for a full sized pick up, I opted for an SUV. I ended up getting a Toyota Rav4, and ordered a Rav 4 Prime. The next down the line were Kia Spectra and Honda CVT then the Ford Escape.

So if the big three want to be leaders in the EV's or Hybrid market make something buyers want.

Note: none of GM's products even made my "look at list"...which is why they have such a backlog,
Click to expand...

Do the modern Rav 4s not suck? The last time I was in one was like 2007 or 8 and it was the company car. My boss had me and a friend drive up to San Fran and I live in Rancho, just south of LA. You've seen it in the Friday movies. I can literally walk to those super color houses. Anyhow that thing was rattling so bad I told my boss just give me a gas card my Aurora can get going and doesn't feel like a vibrator.
 
The bright spot is healthy demand for gasoline powered vehicles.

“Chief Financial Officer Paul Jacobson cited a slowdown in the market for battery-powered cars.”

“For GM, the strike dented what otherwise was a strong quarter, fueled by resilient selling prices and steady consumer demand for vehicles, Jacobson said. GM’s average vehicle sold for about $50,750 during the period, down only slightly from last year, despite analysts’ expectations for a significant falloff in consumers’ ability to spend up on new cars.”
 
BabyBoomer50s said:
The bright spot is healthy demand for gasoline powered vehicles.

“Chief Financial Officer Paul Jacobson cited a slowdown in the market for battery-powered cars.”

“For GM, the strike dented what otherwise was a strong quarter, fueled by resilient selling prices and steady consumer demand for vehicles, Jacobson said. GM’s average vehicle sold for about $50,750 during the period, down only slightly from last year, despite analysts’ expectations for a significant falloff in consumers’ ability to spend up on new cars.”
Click to expand...
Their manufacturing has been behind since before COVID due to microchip shortages. Finally acquiring them to sell to people who have been on a wait-list for years has nothing to do with the strike.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

K
Buffalo Beast's 50 Most Loathsome Americans 2013
Replies
22
Views
2K
John Doe
John Doe
Mike_Yates
Global effects of total nuclear war
Replies
3
Views
383
Brains_N_Boobs
Brains_N_Boobs
Mike_Yates
Simulated nuclear war
Replies
0
Views
333
Mike_Yates
Mike_Yates
Obama_Sucks
Your Assignment: Compile Obama’s Flip-Flops
2
Replies
31
Views
2K
SmoothAndSweet
SmoothAndSweet
fgarvb1
My, How Times Change. 2004
Replies
2
Views
241
fgarvb1
fgarvb1
Back
Top