eastern sun
hungry little creature
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2005
- Posts
- 2,703
He started reading the post above, and hadn't gone further than the second sentence before saying "I don't agree."
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He cedes authority in many areas, and doesn't want to be bothered with the details. He also makes compromises, a lot, taking into account the needs of the kids, the house, our extended family, me.
It's interesting, because it really isn't me who has to compromise. I am free to voice my opinion - as it is. He works with it. I may or may not get what I want. I may have to accept an alternative. But I feel free to form opinions based purely on my own understanding of the circumstances, while I'm certain that he feels he has to make compromises all the time, because of his position of authority.
Most people enter into things and then decide if that's where they want to be and adjust, in my observation. I know of very few people who know what they want, dive in, never look back.
As for TPE, you're looking at the result and not the process. If you are the kind of person who chooses a difficult, unpopular, and all-encompassing mode of relationship how does that NOT make you acceptable as a model in decision making? You're not dealing with the abdication of decision when you are talking about the act of deciding this is the best life for you - that's just the contents of the scripture.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I have embraced the idea that you make a choice, and then learn to live with it - not try it and then if it doesn't work out move on - for so long now, I'm wondering how it affects my guidance of my adolescent children.
I don't consider my marriage TPE, but I also do feel that I'm more in the authority position than my vanilla relationship of old and I relate to the above *immensely*. I feel as though I have to have my eye on the "greatest good" factor, weighing in M's desires and my own, often no one getting exactly what they want in the "I want a candy bar!" sense but living to fight on leaner and meaner overall and often pointed in the direction of progress, in love, life, and functionality. Could he do this on his own? Could I? Probably not as well.
Thanks again for taking the time to respond to all this, Netzach. I think this is another interesting point, in relation to TPE -
I have observed the same thing. But I have also had the experience of making a choice over 20 years ago in which there was no exit route.
True, I could have run away. Yes, if it were truly abusive, I might be able to see my way out of it.
But I have lived the majority of my adult life in a relationship where I felt I did not have a choice to leave. And I made this decision when I was young, diving in, thinking I knew exactly what I wanted for the rest of my hopefully long life.
Now it is true that both of us have changed within the relationship. Adjusted. Adapted. Both to each other, and to the changing circumstances of an adult life. But both of us have also been unhappy for long periods of time.
Throughout this relationship, I have fully embraced the fact that there was no exit route, because it has forced us to work with the real sources of our unhappiness which are almost always primarily internal conflicts, unrealistic expectations, and fear. Or habits of disappointment and resentment.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I have embraced the idea that you make a choice, and then learn to live with it - not try it and then if it doesn't work out move on - for so long now, I'm wondering how it affects my guidance of my adolescent children.
But my desire and willingness to abdicate decision-making, even if it's impossible, extends into the lives of my children as well.
I am specifically being called on the carpet for not challenging a decision that my son made, a decision about what high schools he was interested in attending. I have been asked "what kind of parent sets their child up to fail?" I have been told that I let my son "choose his own poison." Granted I'm being told this by someone I do not trust, someone who wields his authority like a bully, but it has gotten under my skin.
I understand why my son made the choices he made. I supported him all along the way. He has made other choices that were difficult and challenging - but because they were "his idea," he has been willing to step up in ways that I don't think he would if he was doing it simply to please me or his father.
But I also wonder if maybe my willingness to abdicate decision-making isn't also a problem here. Habits. I certainly exert my authority over my children. I am highly influential in their lives. But maybe when there isn't an obvious choice, I cede control where I shouldn't. This is what I'm wondering about.
I said "adjust" not "back out."
What you're describing is a kind of adjusting. It's not a walk in the park or else leave, nor is what you're talking about that foreign to me.
I noticed that, actually, while I was writing.
It's me that keeps focussing on this "escape route," who wants to "cut and run" when things get difficult, even though I already know it's not going to be an option. The old "fight or flight" response woven into modern urban living.
I have a new 12-step sponsor who is working with me on what she sees as a possible adrenaline addiction. With an adrenaline habit linked to both sexual and emotional conditioning, she thinks I might be prone to react to events in my life with a hyped-up fear response. In other words, maybe there are causes for concern, but maybe my tendency to stimulate my adrenal glands for recreational purposes has created an over-active stress response and I'm losing clear sight of the facts.
If the M/s relationship between us is merely conceptual, what does that imply about its truth?
I have to say, eastern sun, you're a much better and more patient person than I, and for that, I admire you tremendously.
What more are you looking for from him?
I still puzzle over what our D/s relationship is. Sometimes I think it's so abstract that I could envision myself to be whatever I want - equal, slave, bedroom sub. And I don't think he would care. I mean, for him, it's what he wants when he wants it, and the rest just falls by the wayside. I could say no and argue. I could be obedient. My status doesn't really change with my behavior.
That one, or both, of the parties involved in the dynamic do not feel that they can adequately put to words the dynamic as a whole.
Personally, I can relate. The girls have two rules. They are broad, subject to interpretation, and occasionally conflicting. Tough. I refuse to codify things any further because it does not suit my needs. And when it comes to things like this, my needs outweigh the wants they may have vis a vis rules, definitions, etc.
Rules and definitions by design constrain both ends of the equation, both the ruler and the ruled. The ruled must follow the rules, but the ruler must also enforce them, else they have no meaning.
I have no desire to be forced to enforce rules. I have no desire to be forced to do anything.
If the M/s relationship between us is merely conceptual, what does that imply about its truth?
Rules and definitions by design constrain both ends of the equation, both the ruler and the ruled. The ruled must follow the rules, but the ruler must also enforce them, else they have no meaning.
I have no desire to be forced to enforce rules. I have no desire to be forced to do anything.
I still puzzle over what our D/s relationship is. Sometimes I think it's so abstract that I could envision myself to be whatever I want - equal, slave, bedroom sub. And I don't think he would care. I mean, for him, it's what he wants when he wants it, and the rest just falls by the wayside. I could say no and argue. I could be obedient. My status doesn't really change with my behavior.
A question: I think we all agree that a "need" is by definition something that must be addressed. How can I express something that I feel I need, without making him feel like he's being "forced" to give it to me? I guess I'm asking - literally, how can I word it so it doesn't pinch?
Somehow I've found myself Dom(s) that prefer a high degree of agreability and obedience. I don't have to like it (it used to be that Hubby expected me too and we struggled with it for a while), but I have to put myself willingly in place. Or pay the consequences the next time.
I basically have only one way out. A ticked with no return.
Thank you, Homburg. This was very helpful for me to read.
A question: I think we all agree that a "need" is by definition something that must be addressed. How can I express something that I feel I need, without making him feel like he's being "forced" to give it to me? I guess I'm asking - literally, how can I word it so it doesn't pinch?
Certainty, I suppose. Of his affection. Of the rightness of my actions. And my understanding. Of the path we're walking. That kind of thing.
i want to feel more confident that all is well. Even when things are difficult and challenging.
That may not be something he can give.
I totally get this, by the way. I have similar experiences.
I can agree that my status doesn't change with my behavior, but my behavior definitely changes the way he treats me. And sometimes, the way he treats me has nothing to do with me at all.