Zelensky goes to Washington

[BabyBoomer50s]

Pretty big news day. Zelensky wants more assistance. What should Biden ask in return? What (if anything) more should the US provide? Where does the US draw the line in terms of assistance?

https://thehill.com/homenews/3783593-biden-holds-press-conference-with-zelensky/

 

[coati]

Zelensky wants more assistance. What should Biden ask in return?

Sorry, boomer, Biden does not equal Trump.

 

[Lazaran]

The “Pee tape” obviously.

BabyBoobs

 

[ll74]

Pretty big news day. Zelensky wants more assistance. What should Biden ask in return? What (if anything) more should the US provide? Where does the US draw the line in terms of assistance?

https://thehill.com/homenews/3783593-biden-holds-press-conference-with-zelensky/

Their global partnership....which they already provide. We should draw the line when they no longer are being attacked by Russia.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Their global partnership....which they already provide. We should draw the line when they no longer are being attacked by Russia.

Similar to my POV at a high level but US policy is vague. Im supportive of Ukraine because Russia is our enemy.

I’d like to see more of an “in it to win it” posture. If not that, then lay out an alternative.

If getting the Russians out of the entire country of Ukraine is the goal, do it. Don’t slow walk weapons. Give Zelensky everything he needs, and do it now. Aircraft, long range missiles, drones, ammo, whatever. If our own defense capacity is dangerously depleted, invoke the DPA to fill the backlog.

Nobody knows what might provoke Putin to start WWIII. Our policy makers are guessing. But the US is already in a proxy war. Might as well win it.

Winter is setting in. Russian troops are stalled, under resourced, and demoralized. Great time for an overwhelming offensive initiative. Help Ukraine crush them now.

That’s just the way I see it right now but am totally open to other ideas. This feels like it’s going to be a prolonged conflict.

 

[Chobham]

Similar to my POV at a high level but US policy is vague. Im supportive of Ukraine because Russia is our enemy.

I’d like to see more of an “in it to win it” posture. If not that, then lay out an alternative.

If getting the Russians out of the entire country of Ukraine is the goal, do it. Don’t slow walk weapons. Give Zelensky everything he needs, and do it now. Aircraft, long range missiles, drones, ammo, whatever. If our own defense capacity is dangerously depleted, invoke the DPA to fill the backlog.

Nobody knows what might provoke Putin to start WWIII. Our policy makers are guessing. But the US is already in a proxy war. Might as well win it.

Winter is setting in. Russian troops are stalled, under resourced, and demoralized. Great time for an overwhelming offensive initiative. Help Ukraine crush them now.

That’s just the way I see it right now but am totally open to other ideas. This feels like it’s going to be a prolonged conflict.

I disagree with a good part of that.

The more advanced weapon systems require substantial training and logistical support to use effectively. Most would require the presence of NATO troops of one sort or another to field and that puts NATO in direct conflict with Russia. And that backs Putin into a corner that we don't necessarily want him in.

The same might be said concerning any weapons with the range that would enable Ukraine to attack deep into Russia.

The intelligence info we're providing the Ukrainians along with the weapon systems already provided have allowed the Ukrainians to make significant inroads in the regaining of territory. Certain natural barriers, river systems, are going to necessarily slow those advances down. But those same natural barriers work against the Russians as well.

Russia is doing a magnificent job of mismanaging this war as it is. Those 300,000 or whatever conscripts are not going to be of much use either. They are not receiving adequate training or equipment, they're cannon fodder and they know it. I would expect to see mass unit surrenders come the anticipated spring offensive. And quite frankly the call up of those conscripts is working against Putin internally just like it worked against the old Soviet Union in Afghanistan........but at almost light speed.

While Putin's response to Zelensky's speech was "No Peace" I've got to believe that in the back of their minds both Putin and his senior staff have to be thinking of a way out of this mess they created that doesn't end up with them under trial for war crimes.

 

[Lazaran]

Look at BabyBoobs asking a loaded question that seeks to legitimize Trump’s extortion of Ukraine and Zelensky: “What should Biden ask in return?”

Then BabyBoobs attempts to salvage their reputation / credibility by acting “reasonable”.

Too late BabyBoobs.

Waaaaaaaaay too late.

BabyBoobs

 

[icanhelp1]

I disagree with a good part of that.

The more advanced weapon systems require substantial training and logistical support to use effectively. Most would require the presence of NATO troops of one sort or another to field and that puts NATO in direct conflict with Russia. And that backs Putin into a corner that we don't necessarily want him in.

The same might be said concerning any weapons with the range that would enable Ukraine to attack deep into Russia.

The intelligence info we're providing the Ukrainians along with the weapon systems already provided have allowed the Ukrainians to make significant inroads in the regaining of territory. Certain natural barriers, river systems, are going to necessarily slow those advances down. But those same natural barriers work against the Russians as well.

Russia is doing a magnificent job of mismanaging this war as it is. Those 300,000 or whatever conscripts are not going to be of much use either. They are not receiving adequate training or equipment, they're cannon fodder and they know it. I would expect to see mass unit surrenders come the anticipated spring offensive. And quite frankly the call up of those conscripts is working against Putin internally just like it worked against the old Soviet Union in Afghanistan........but at almost light speed.

While Putin's response to Zelensky's speech was "No Peace" I've got to believe that in the back of their minds both Putin and his senior staff have to be thinking of a way out of this mess they created that doesn't end up with them under trial for war crimes.

It's just a sad state of affairs that Biden has totally ignored our southern border and has become a subservient patsy to Zelensky. Ukraine is primarily a european problem, it's their backyard. Germany and Poland should be the lead players in this conflict. 106 billion in taxpayer dollars with no receipts. People can say what want, but underneath all this uncontrolled illegal migrant invasion a storm brewing. I fear a major terrorist attack is being planned within our borders as we speak. $106 billion to Ukraine and peanuts to shore up our own borders. Republicans and democrats alike pounding their chest in solidarity with Zelensky while our own states are left drowning in despair while their states are overrun. SAD.

 

[JohnEngelman]

The USA usually abandons other countries.

Dont get your hopes up.

We abandon countries that do not appreciate our protection. We tried to protect the South Vietnamese from Communism. A lot of the South Vietnamese preferred the Communists side to ours. A lot of other South Vietnamese did not support either side and wanted to be left alone.

The same can be said of our adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Taliban just said girls cannot be educated beyond the sixth grade. That sounds pretty terrible, but the Taliban could not have survived for twenty years against the best financed and best equipped military in the world without popular support.

When a country has the attitude: We will fight for our survival. We will appreciate your help, but we will fight without it."
The results are positive, as they have been with Israel.

 

[JohnEngelman]

It's just a sad state of affairs that Biden has totally ignored our southern border and has become subservient patsy to Zelensky. Ukraine is primarily a european problem, it's their backyard. Germany and Poland should be the lead players in this conflict. 106 billion in taxpayer dollars with no receipts. People can say what want, but underneath all this uncontrolled illegal migrant invasion a storm brewing. I fear a major terrorist attack is being planned within our borders as we speak. $106 billion to Ukraine and peanuts to shore up our own borders. Republicans and democrats alike pounding their chest in solidarity with Zelensky while our own states are left drowning in despair while their states are overrun. SAD.

I see no conflict beyond protecting our southern border and helping Ukraine. They are separate issues.

We are told that we need immigrants to do work Americans will not do. If we eliminate welfare payments, except for those physically unable to work, while increasing the severity of our criminal justice system we will enjoy considerable tax savings and we will have an easier time policing our borders.

Meanwhile, let's keep supporting Ukraine.

 

[Lazaran]

ineedhelp1 obviously knows nothing about President Biden’s policies on border security. Or President Biden’s funding requests for border security.

Decent people would be less inclined to mock Deplorables if the Deplorables would make a minimal effort to educate themselves.

ineedhelp1

 

[icanhelp1]

Laz believes Biden actually has a border policy. Decent people want that incompetent fool to defend our borders, put priority on our borders above foreign borders. Bush and Obama had the right idea.

 

[ll74]

Laz believes Biden actually has a border policy. Decent people want that incompetent fool to defend our borders, put priority on our borders above foreign borders. Bush and Obama had the right idea.

He's enforced the law hes even enforced title 42 which should not be the law right now.

Want better enforcement, lobby for more money and resources.

 

[icanhelp1]

I see no conflict beyond protecting our southern border and helping Ukraine. They are separate issues.

We are told that we need immigrants to do work Americans will not do. If we eliminate welfare payments, except for those physically unable to work, while increasing the severity of our criminal justice system we will enjoy considerable tax savings and we will have an easier time policing our borders.

Meanwhile, let's keep supporting Ukraine.

A president should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

 

[icanhelp1]

He's enforced the law hes even enforced title 42 which should not be the law right now.

Want better enforcement, lobby for more money and resources.

Bullshit! Obama and Bush deported illegals, Biden doesn't care.

The Omnibus bill loaded with pork, not much for border security.

 

[Chobham]

I see no conflict beyond protecting our southern border and helping Ukraine. They are separate issues.

We are told that we need immigrants to do work Americans will not do. If we eliminate welfare payments, except for those physically unable to work, while increasing the severity of our criminal justice system we will enjoy considerable tax savings and we will have an easier time policing our borders.

Meanwhile, let's keep supporting Ukraine.

You have a point there, I wonder how many are going to listen?

Refusing to work is NOT the same as being unable to work. NONE of those flooding across the border are capable of performing high value work. They will be doing nothing more than paying taxes to subsidize those citizens who are refusing to work. Exactly how is that a benefit to either party?

 

[ll74]

Bullshit! Obama and Bush deported illegals, Biden doesn't care.

The Omnibus bill loaded with pork, not much for border security.

You're I'll informed. Biden has continued to use title 42 to reject asylum claims just as much as his predecessor.

 

[phrodeau]

White supremacist Russian sympathizer cocaine addict Donald Trump Jr. called Zelenskyy an “ungrateful international welfare queen.”

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

I disagree with a good part of that.

The more advanced weapon systems require substantial training and logistical support to use effectively. Most would require the presence of NATO troops of one sort or another to field and that puts NATO in direct conflict with Russia. And that backs Putin into a corner that we don't necessarily want him in.

The same might be said concerning any weapons with the range that would enable Ukraine to attack deep into Russia.

The intelligence info we're providing the Ukrainians along with the weapon systems already provided have allowed the Ukrainians to make significant inroads in the regaining of territory. Certain natural barriers, river systems, are going to necessarily slow those advances down. But those same natural barriers work against the Russians as well.

Russia is doing a magnificent job of mismanaging this war as it is. Those 300,000 or whatever conscripts are not going to be of much use either. They are not receiving adequate training or equipment, they're cannon fodder and they know it. I would expect to see mass unit surrenders come the anticipated spring offensive. And quite frankly the call up of those conscripts is working against Putin internally just like it worked against the old Soviet Union in Afghanistan........but at almost light speed.

While Putin's response to Zelensky's speech was "No Peace" I've got to believe that in the back of their minds both Putin and his senior staff have to be thinking of a way out of this mess they created that doesn't end up with them under trial for war crimes.

Great comments.

 

[Lazaran]

ineedhelp1, Chobby, and JohnEreb

The trifecta of stupid, racist, and xenophobic.

ineedhelp1, Chobby, and JohnEreb

JFC

Edit: And BabyBoobs with the reach around squares the circle-jerk.

BabyBoobs

JFC

 

[LupusDei]

Germany and Poland should be the lead players in this conflict.

Poland certainly is. However, their potential is limited. Poland will come out of this as first rate regional+ military power (think, in class with Turkey), but they're not there yet themselves. Meanwhile, literally every current SPG they make is going directly to the frontline, while they work on the next project (with Korea) in parallel.

When you're whining "Europe's not doing enough" you mean Germany. Yes, they're supposed to be world class players and are a sad mess instead. Still, they aren't ideal, but are doing more than the outrage machine suggest. Nowhere enough, and with incredibly stupid excuses not to, but they do. And yes, to make the bad worse, they have disastrous PR. Now everyone knows how captured they were/are buy intentionally deployed business interests, while basically abolishing army for no discernible reasons. And how they still aren't doing anything about any of that. They will end up buying Polish weapons.

Everyone will end up buying Polish weapons. That's not necessarily a good thing. Especially for America.

 

[JohnEngelman]

You have a point there, I wonder how many are going to listen?

Refusing to work is NOT the same as being unable to work. NONE of those flooding across the border are capable of performing high value work. They will be doing nothing more than paying taxes to subsidize those citizens who are refusing to work. Exactly how is that a benefit to either party?

Years ago I was the manager of a rooming house. Three of the tenants were on welfare. One was a psychotic, and should have been institutionalized. The other two could have found unskilled, m minimum wage jobs, but choose not to.

I did not let them rent there. They were already there when I became manager. I had to learn from experience that there really are welfare chiselers.

 

[JohnEngelman]

White supremacist Russian sympathizer cocaine addict Donald Trump Jr. called Zelenskyy an “ungrateful international welfare queen.”

Did Trump say that before or after Zelensky's speech before Congress? After that speech I think Republicans in Congress will find it hard to oppose aid for Ukraine.

 

[oggbashan]

Everyone will end up buying Polish weapons. That's not necessarily a good thing. Especially for America.

The UK is making many of its own and sending them to Ukraine to the extent that our own military is worried. The UK is also spending a lot with US manufacturers, both for Ukraine and to replace systems already sent to Ukraine. Other European NATO countries have increased their spends on US equipment. The US Defense procurement industry is rubbing its hands in glee.

 

[icanhelp1]

Did Trump say that before or after Zelensky's speech before Congress? After that speech I think Republicans in Congress will find it hard to oppose aid for Ukraine.

No one is advocating for not helping Ukraine. Unfortunately we have politicians more concerned with protecting Ukraine's border, Pakistani borders. Its total fucking bizarro world out there. We have a congress about to pass an omnibus bill so loaded with pork you could make ham salad.. We, the american taxpayer, is funding 65 to 70% of the Ukraine debacle. WHY? Some people would call it whining, I call it misappropriations of taxpayer's *HARD EARNED MONEY* and total lack of the ability to prioritise the needs of the american people. Our streets are littered with fentanyl, homeless, illegal migrants living on our streets with no place to go, a border that is totally out of control and while our politicians who take an oath to uphold the constitution are more concerned with passing another huge spending bill that that just adds to the debt column. The feds are raising rates to reel in spending and as fast as the fed raises rate our inept politicians are trying to pass another hugh spending bill. There's no money for border security only money to help process more illegals. Biden is not fit for office and so are many of the congressional leadership.