Your Opinion: Requests to post stories on other sites

[christo]

I just got an e-mail from someone starting a site that posts erotic stories & he asked if he could reprint my stories on his site. I would keep the rights to the stories and it would give me the chance to let other readers see my stories, but I'm not sure ethically how I feel about this. Literotica is far superior to this fledgling site, so I don't think I'm helping a site that might challenge Literotica for supremacy.

Still, I feel more than a little bit of loyalty to the folks here, since they were the visionaries who put up this site and published me first (now concluding shameless brown-nosing). I'll bet I'm not the only writer to get a request from this new site. So, anyone else out there had to make this decision? Any insight? Compliments? Threats?

 

[KillerMuffin]

I don't know what Laurel's official feelings on this are, I do know that she doesn't seem to have a problem with it. Some of our better writers are posted on multiple sites. Laurel seems to have an utter lack of jealousy regarding where people post dirty stories.

I have also been solicited by others in the past who are starting up stories and want to post mine. This was before the new scripts were in place and there was a tiny author list. I later discovered they asked pretty much everyone.

As of now, I only post at literotica. Laurel does a good job maintaining the site and she is extremely good with making sure plagiarism is taken care of in the author's and site's best interests immediately.

There is also the matter of pedo and snuff. These two subjects are wildly taboo to me in the realm of sexuality. They happen, people get off on them, and stories about them are most likely fantasy. However, I once read a story at whiteshadows called Mei's Last Barbeque. I was pissed off for a week and half. If I could have gotten ahold of the author, he woulda thought Barbeque. He would have been so lucky to get barbequed. But I digress. I know that Laurel won't post the stuff, not even in the extreme section. I imagine she gets requests for it that just drive her crazy, but I really respect her for not doing it.

I may, in the future, post on a start up site if they asked me to. It would depend on the site and what sort of stories they were looking for. It's kind of funny to think about the concepts of ethics, morals, integrity, and standards in conjunction with pornography. I have standards and a code of ethics. I won't post my stuff where my standards don't coincide with the site's standards.

 

[Guest]

I've written erotic fiction on the web for years. I started out on the newsgroups, been published at various sites under various pseudonyms and soon plan on submitting to this site. I've never seen a that cares so much for the writers that they would track down plagiarists. Kudos to the owners.

I have never given a story to a website that writes me for permission. My experience is that those are usually scammers who send out emails to many authors at a time. Their goal is to build their own storylist by stealing stories from other sites. They often don't even read the stories. It's impolite to the other websites especially to websites like this one where the owners are apparently allow writers to submit elsewhere, if what you say is true. A reputable website owner does not go to other sites and solicit authors. White Shadow & Erotic Stories do not solicit other site authors. I would doubt the webmaster of Literotica does either but I don't know for sure.

 

[CreamyLady]

I've received the blanket solicitations, but I feel very comfortable here. I understand exactly what you are saying about ethics, morals, etc. KillerMuffin. I did turn someone down specifically because I didn't like the other things that were posted at the site.

One of the things about these solicitations that twinge, sort of, is the blithe assumption that the works in question will be posted for free. They are free here; I like it here and, as I said, feel comfortable. I'm GROWING here. But I'm not sure I want my work to go elsewhere without some effort at compensation.

Hypocritical, or what?

 

[christo]

Thanks!

After reading everyone's comments and thinking it over I've decided not to let these other folks run my stories. I think the point about being "comfortable" here plays a big part of it. I know what kinds of stories will appear here and what kind aren't welcome. There are viewpoints and themes I wouldn't feel comfortable having my name or stories associated with (i.e. pedophilia) and I know that here that won't be a problem. And I know the people here, at least I've read their stories and comments on the bulletin boards, and I feel quite comfortable being part of their communtity (though I might not want them making up a jury deciding my fate...just kidding!).

So I'll say thanks but no thanks. I'll keep an eye on their site and if I think it's pretty good maybe at a later date I'll submit something. Bur for now I'll stay here where it's nice & cozy.

Thanks again!

 

[Crossley]

This thread is of particular interest to me since as of late, both my partner and I have solicited several Literotica writers for permission to reprint their stories. In fact, I suspect that we had no small part in inspiring this thread. In doing so we've encountered the full spectrum of responses from the flattered, to the downright hostile.

I have to admire the loyalty expressed in this thread thus far. I do, however, believe it clouds the true purpose that drives writers of erotica to publish their work online: that is, to be read and to be heard. We've made these solicitations based on this notion and the assumption that even the most possessive webmasters would not begrudge their writers the right to distribute their own stories as they see fit. Integrity is a whole other post.

Last, I vehemently contest the opinion that any website that solicits outside writers is disreputable. Anyone who believes this hasn't given much thought to the dynamics of launching a sex story site. It looks essentially like this: readers want stories, writers want readers to read their stories, both won't touch an empty site with someone else's pole. The result is a website that evolves as fast as a dead snail.

I suppose the main reason I posted here is to fan the ashes of this thread. As I said, I'm interested to find out if there's a consensus here. If the consensus is negative we'll turn our efforts elsewhere. It's that simple. Otherwise Brook and I will continue to peruse the stories on Literotica--and make no mistake, we won't reprint something we haven't read--and spread a little more luvin' across the web.

Thanks for reading this.

Crossley
>> read it and seep

An addendum: Who writes the description for the stories on Literotica? The writer or webmaster?

 

[christo]

I see your point...

Having someone ask to reprint my stories is certainly flattering. I'm definitely not offended or pissed off that someone wants to post my stories. But before I allow my stories to be posted somewhere else I'd want the site to have a bit of a track record first so I knew exactly what I was associating myself with.

So far as getting additional readers, that's what all writers crave. I just love my public so much, I want to share my talent with as many of the little people as I can! <g>. I agree with your point that you need a certain critical mass of stories to get people posting. But considering how prolific the writers on Literotica are, if you put up a good site, and you get the word around, the stories will be a-coming.

 

[Laurel]

both won't touch an empty site with someone else's pole. The result is a website that evolves as fast as a dead snail.

Going on my experience, limited as it might be, I find myself having to disagree with the above statement. Through the entire history of Literotica, Manu and I have never solicited an author from another site to submit a story here. We always believed, and still do, the theory of "if you build it, they will come" - the "they" in that statement being authors & readers who share a similar vision of what quality erotica should be.

I'm the first to admit that I'm in awe of how many people visit the site every day, but by the same token I never doubted that there were at least a few people somewhere in the world who would be happy to share a tiny piece of the web with us.

Like a diamond or a redwood, I think things that grow slowly and naturally tend to be strongest. The story sites that I personally look up to and visit - like White Shadow, ASSTR, Nifty, and EroticStories - have all grown organically over a period of years, and I would be surprised to find out that any of them solicit authors.

It may seem like your site is growing like a "dead snail", but I would argue that our site grew instead like the determined tortoise from the fable we all read as a kid. It is not necessarily easy waiting for a tree to grow, a diamond to form, or a tortoise to win a race, but patience, a true belief in what you're doing, and all of the great people you meet along the way make it all worthwhile in the end.

Again, these are just my personal opinions and experiences. We have always believed from Day One that authors have every right to do whatever they want with their stories - and whether that means posting them on 70 sites or posting them exclusively on Literotica, we respect and stand by their decision. The most important person in this equation remains each individual author, not the webmasters or websites. We never forget that.

 

[masterhypnotist]

I am impressed! I love the stories AND the limitations. It IS a wonderful environment. I just have to stop spending so much time on this site. MH

 

[masterhypnotist]

Mei's Last Barbecue (Snuff, Cannibalism)

Muffin, why did you read it? It said what it would contain. Yuck. Since I have found Literotica I have enjoyed the erotic literature MUCH more. I don't think most of it is really pornography. (I admit I have a little trouble with some of the incest. But then I don't have to read it do I? MH

 

[Crossley]

The two posts that followed my first were extremely encouraging. I thank you for your input. I do however, disagree that there are any inherent benefits to taking a passive role in developing a website. Likewise, I disagree that taking an active role will somehow result in an inferior website. The fable of the tortoise and hare makes for a cozy analogy, but I believe it hardly applies to the web, where days are measured in seconds.

Above all, I disapprove of even the tiniest hint that solicitation on behalf of one's website is unethical (if done properly). There may be some truth to it, but the fact remains that no commercial adult website is beyond reproach -- not mine, not White Shadow, not even Literotica. But then all this is just one opinion.

 

[Guest]

'Fraid your wrong there pardner. Literotica isn't just above reproach it's the best site on the web. If your so sure that your right, why don't you have your website in your tagline. Let me get this straight, you go to other story websites & steal their stories, Literotica puts in the hard work & you just take what they work at getting. Dont think I want to see your website after all, it'd probably read like a little Literotica.

 

[Crossley]

Yes, that's EXACTLY right. I go to other story sites and steal their stories. Pfffft.

Literotica may very well be the best sex story site on the web. Nonetheless it's not above reproach.

[How-to-try-to-hack-Literotica related info removed for security reasons. -Laurel]

Keep in mind these aren't criticisms. As I said we've all got our problems to deal with.

My site isn't even in the same league as Literotica. I'm loathe to even compare the two. However while this site has been around for 3 years, mine has only been around for 3 days. For now, I think I'll just disappear with my tail between my legs. Peace.

Crossley
>> read it and seep

PS. I'd post a URL in my tagline, but then you would accuse me of spamming. I just can't win here, can I?


[This message has been edited by Laurel to remove some site security related info. 02.21.01]

 

[Laurel]

Just a quick note to say that I really don't want this thread to turn into a flame war.

There is plenty of room on the web for many many story sites and each one has it's own personality and 'vibe, if you will.

We may disagree on the specifics, but we're all here because we love erotic stories (or chicken breasts.)

For those of you that haven't figured it out yet, yes this is another of Laurel's "Can't we all just get along?" posts.

Personally, I'm still shocked that Steely Dan won a grammy.

 

[CreamyLady]

Me, too.

 

[Crossley]

Who the hell is Steely Dan? What happened to Buck Naked?

 

[Laurel]

Who the hell is Steely Dan?

I think he's Jethro Tull's brother, but I could be wrong.

 

[christo]

What have I begat?

Wow, I started a little commotion, didn't I? But it was a fairly well-mannered one, no blood shed.

I didn't watch the Grammy's, since most music today sucks and awards shows are ghastly. But was that Christina Aguilera with her hair in cornrows who came down from the ceiling in that...whatever it was? I was flipping, saw it, and it almost looked like she couldn't get out of the contraption she was sitting in. There was some kind of strap for her to pull herself up with, otherwise it really could have been entertaining. Watching her flop around like a trout would have been most enjoyable. Alas, she got up and started screeching the way she does. Will someone please tell her and Celine Dion and Whitney Houston that those metal things they sing into AMPLIFY THEIR VOICES. No need to bray like coyotes at the full moon.

OK, I'm done ranting. Did Elvis Costello win anything? Nah, guess not.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Reading Mei's: I recently formed an opinion on the concept of "snuff fantasy." Which is different from actually going through with the murderous fetish. People who merely think about doing it, but would never actually do it. I believe that in order to create a solid opinion, one must be informed. So I surfed whiteshadows and found a story that seemed to not have anything other than snuff in it. I liked the name Mei as well. Now I have an informed opinion. I'm not a virgin utah porn czar who sees sex and equates it with obscenity.

New sites: I can understand the difficulties in starting a new site, and appreciate the problems in doing so. It makes perfect sense to read a story you like and then ask the author if they'd mind if you posted it elsewhere. There is certainly no need for the author to be rude or violent in responding negatively. A polite, no, I'm sorry but thanks for asking, it's very flattering response is much better for everyone.

My hesitation in posting elsewhere stems from two very legitimate concerns. 1) pedo and snuff. I'm opposed and don't want to be associated with it. I want the assurance that it won't be there, and if it shows up then my stuff will be removed posthaste. Not three or four months down the road or the "oops, forgot" thing. 2) copyrights. This is all done internet and copyright belongs to me. However, my name is KillerMuffin, an obvious alias and my only known origin is my anonymous hotmail account. It would be an extremely simple matter for an unethical site owner to take my stories and fraudulently claim copyrights him/herself. After that then I would have to fight for it. For the average plagiarist who copies and pastes a story, it's easy to take care of webwise. A siteowner is a different story.

WH made a suggestion and I've done it to protect my ownership of anything I write, pretty much unassailable proof that it's mine. That's to print the story and send it to myself registered mail and not open it. That way there is a dated copy of it on file if the matter ever becomes a problem. It's probably neurotically paranoid of me to do this, after all it's just a mediocre little porn story, but it is mine and I did work hard on it.

While I can appreciate your need to succeed with your site and the frustrations you must have to get authors to write good stories for you, I'm also going to make sure I'm not getting myself into something I'll regret. It took me about 8 months to decide to submit a story to literotica. I like to think things through.

 

[Madame Pandora]

Okay...just my take on things...

1) A story "belongs" to its author...period. The very idea that stories or authors should be "loyal" to one site (or publishing house, or periodical, etc) is...a little too junior-high in thinking for my taste. If an author continues to support Literotica by submitting here, but is also comfortable by putting their work on other sites, there is no lack of loyalty. Laurel has never drawn a line in the sand. The policies here at Lit support authors and readers and I doubt that this site will ever hurt for submissions.

2) In business some people are more aggressive than others. Doesn't make one way better or worse. The important thing is that there is a protocol observed. In this case, authors were emailed POLITELY and asked for permission. Everyone had the choice to say NO. I see no breach of etiquette here.

3) I don't say this to upset anyone or belittle erotica in general...but I don't lose sleep over defending the "authorship" of this type of short fiction. Yes, I endeavor to maintain the integrity of my work, and to be given credit for it. If I found someone had taken it without asking I would call them on it. But...well, I guess in the end I am doing this kind of writing as an exercise for my "real" writing. Hell, I won't even attach my real name to it, so how serious can I take it? More important to me is the effectiveness of my style, if the piece accomplished what I wanted it to, etc.

4) At least for me, the act of writing is a desire to express myself and to impart a little of my love of language and intellect or emotion to others. If someone passes off my words as their own, I will confront them, but it is not so much the CREDIT I am after as it is how the readers responded to it. I think most writers place too much importance on credit. The customary reason for this is money, and there's no money in erotica. Not at this point in time. In the end we're all just 10,000 monkeys with an infinite amount of time pounding on keyboards. Eventually, we hit the right combinations ;-)

MP

 

[KillerMuffin]

MP sweetness, stories belong to the copyright holder, period. No one else but the copyright holder. When you submit to literotica, Laurel posts and the author retains the copyright. Some places will only post if the author surrenders the copyright. Some places have it listed in the policy, publication on the site automatically transfers copyright to the site owners.

Anyway. It may not put bread on the table, but it means alot to me, I put some hard work into my stories. Erotica or not, I don't think they're not worth the effort to be careful with what I do with them. Preventative measures are going to serve me far better than getting burned by submitting indiscriminately.

But that's my take on it, not necessarily the views of management.

 

[bluntforcemama]

I suppose if you want to broaden your exposure, then posting on multiple sights would be the thing to do, and if it makes you feel uncomfortable, you can always call this place home by providing a link to it at the end of your stories on other sites, if allowed by the webmaster. If the master isn't willing to let you, as an honored guest and contributor, provide a link to your "home," I'd say something is smelling a little rotten.

 

[Crossley]

After all that...

I've decided to take down all static stories from my site. Although I stand by the opinions I expressed thus far, this thread has got me thinking, and I realize that I've lost sight of my site's original mandate. Henceforth I decree the site will be 100% interactive.

To all the writers I've reprinted, I apologize. Hopefully you will understand, or 'not care'.

Crossley
>> read it and seep

 

[bluntforcemama]

Oh Crossley! Be a part of our family, stay here with us, you don't need another site when you have us! What a doll you must be.

 

[Samuari]

Oh Crossley! Be a part of our family, stay here with us, you don't need another site when you have us! What a doll you must be.

I quite agree, stick arround, we only bite when asked.

A really good interactive site would be welcome to most of us.

I posted to another site before I posted here, and realy like both of them, and will prolly continue to do so. This is a really confortable place for me to be at right now. May be too comfortable, as I have a dozen half finshed stories on my hard drive, and am reworking my old stories, and haven't woked on any of them for a month. (How's that for bad sentence construction?)