Your answer Zip

[Ishmael]

Well Zip, as long as you took the time to C&P these Democratic talking points, I imagine I can take the time to actually type out the answers. :-D

by Zipman (and the Democratic party)
1. Social Security Surplus

BUSH PLEDGES NOT TO TOUCH SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS... "We're going to keep the promise of Social Security and keep the government from raiding the Social Security surplus." [President Bush, 3/3/01]

...BUSH SPENDS SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS The New York Times reported that "the president's new budget uses Social Security surpluses to pay for other programs every year through 2013, ultimately diverting more than $1.4 trillion in Social Security funds to other purposes." [The New York Times, 2/6/02]

2. Patient's Right to Sue

GOVERNOR BUSH VETOES PATIENTS' RIGHT TO SUE... "Despite his campaign rhetoric in favor of a patients' bill of rights, Bush fought such a bill tooth and nail as Texas governor, vetoing a bill coauthored by Republican state Rep. John Smithee in 1995. He... constantly opposed a patient's right to sue an HMO over coverage denied that resulted in adverse health effects." [Salon, 2/7/01]

...CANDIDATE BUSH PRAISES TEXAS PATIENTS' RIGHT TO SUE... "We're one of the first states that said you can sue an HMO for denying you proper coverage... It's time for our nation to come together and do what's right for the people. And I think this is right for the people. You know, I support a national patients' bill of rights, Mr. Vice President. And I want all people covered. I don't want the law to supersede good law like we've got in Texas." [Governor Bush, 10/17/00]

...PRESIDENT BUSH'S ADMINISTRATION ARGUES AGAINST RIGHT TO SUE "To let two Texas consumers, Juan Davila and Ruby R. Calad, sue their managed-care companies for wrongful denials of medical benefits 'would be to completely undermine' federal law regulating employee benefits, Assistant Solicitor General James A. Feldman said at oral argument March 23. Moreover, the administration's brief attacked the policy rationale for Texas's law, which is similar to statutes on the books in nine other states." [Washington Post, 4/5/04]

3. Tobacco Buyout

BUSH SUPPORTS CURRENT TOBACCO FARMERS' QUOTA SYSTEM... "They've got the quota system in place -- the allotment system -- and I don't think that needs to be changed." [President Bush, 5/04]

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION WILL SUPPORT FEDERAL BUYOUT OF TOBACCO QUOTAS "The administration is open to a buyout." [White House spokeswoman Jeanie Mamo, 6/18/04]

4. North Korea

BUSH WILL NOT OFFER NUCLEAR NORTH KOREA INCENTIVES TO DISARM... "We developed a bold approach under which, if the North addressed our long-standing concerns, the United States was prepared to take important steps that would have significantly improved the lives of the North Korean people. Now that North Korea's covert nuclear weapons program has come to light, we are unable to pursue this approach." [President's Statement, 11/15/02]

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION OFFERS NORTH KOREA INCENTIVES TO DISARM"Well, we will work to take steps to ease their political and economic isolation. So there would be -- what you would see would be some provisional or temporary proposals that would only lead to lasting benefit after North Korea dismantles its nuclear programs. So there would be some provisional or temporary efforts of that nature." [White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, 6/23/04]

5. Abortion

BUSH SUPPORTS A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE... "Bush said he...favors leaving up to a woman and her doctor the abortion question." [The Nation, 6/15/00, quoting the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal, 5/78]

...BUSH OPPOSES A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE "I am pro-life." [Governor Bush, 10/3/00]

6. OPEC

BUSH PROMISES TO FORCE OPEC TO LOWER PRICES... "What I think the president ought to do [when gas prices spike] is he ought to get on the phone with the OPEC cartel and say we expect you to open your spigots...And the president of the United States must jawbone OPEC members to lower the price." [President Bush, 1/26/00]

...BUSH REFUSES TO LOBBY OPEC LEADERS With gas prices soaring in the United States at the beginning of 2004, the Miami Herald reported the president refused to "personally lobby oil cartel leaders to change their minds." [Miami Herald, 4/1/04]

7. Iraq Funding

BUSH SPOKESMAN DENIES NEED FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR THE REST OF 2004... "We do not anticipate requesting supplemental funding for '04" [White House Budget Director Joshua Bolton, 2/2/04]

...BUSH REQUESTS ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR IRAQ FOR 2004 "I am requesting that Congress establish a $25 billion contingency reserve fund for the coming fiscal year to meet all commitments to our troops." [President Bush, Statement by President, 5/5/04]

8. Condoleeza Rice Testimony

BUSH SPOKESMAN SAYS RICE WON'T TESTIFY AS 'A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE'... "Again, this is not her personal preference; this goes back to a matter of principle. There is a separation of powers issue involved here. Historically, White House staffers do not testify before legislative bodies. So it's a matter of principle, not a matter of preference." [White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, 3/9/04]

...BUSH ORDERS RICE TO TESTIFY: "Today I have informed the Commission on Terrorist Attacks Against the United States that my National Security Advisor, Dr. Condoleezza Rice, will provide public testimony." [President Bush, 3/30/04]

9. Science

BUSH PLEDGES TO ISSUE REGULATIONS BASED ON SCIENCE..."I think we ought to have high standards set by agencies that rely upon science, not by what may feel good or what sounds good." [then-Governor George W. Bush, 1/15/00]

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION REGULATIONS IGNORE SCIENCE "60 leading scientists-including Nobel laureates, leading medical experts, former federal agency directors and university chairs and presidents-issued a statement calling for regulatory and legislative action to restore scientific integrity to federal policymaking. According to the scientists, the Bush administration has, among other abuses, suppressed and distorted scientific analysis from federal agencies, and taken actions that have undermined the quality of scientific advisory panels." [Union of Concerned Scientists, 2/18/04]

10. Ahmed Chalabi

BUSH INVITES CHALABI TO STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS...President Bush also met with Chalabi during his brief trip to Iraq last Thanksgiving [White House Documents 1/20/04, 11/27/03]

...BUSH MILITARY ASSISTS IN RAID OF CHALABI'S HOUSE "U.S. soldiers raided the home of America's one-time ally Ahmad Chalabi on Thursday and seized documents and computers." [Washington Post, 5/20/04]

11. Department of Homeland Security

BUSH OPPOSES THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY..."So, creating a Cabinet office doesn't solve the problem. You still will have agencies within the federal government that have to be coordinated. So the answer is that creating a Cabinet post doesn't solve anything." [White House spokesman Ari Fleischer, 3/19/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY "So tonight, I ask the Congress to join me in creating a single, permanent department with an overriding and urgent mission: securing the homeland of America and protecting the American people." [President Bush, Address to the Nation, 6/6/02]

12. Weapons of Mass Destruction

BUSH SAYS WE FOUND THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION..."We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories...for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them." [President Bush, Interview in Poland, 5/29/03]

...BUSH SAYS WE HAVEN'T FOUND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION "David Kay has found the capacity to produce weapons.And when David Kay goes in and says we haven't found stockpiles yet, and there's theories as to where the weapons went. They could have been destroyed during the war. Saddam and his henchmen could have destroyed them as we entered into Iraq. They could be hidden. They could have been transported to another country, and we'll find out." [President Bush, Meet the Press, 2/7/04]

13. Free Trade

BUSH SUPPORTS FREE TRADE... "I believe strongly that if we promote trade, and when we promote trade, it will help workers on both sides of this issue." [President Bush in Peru, 3/23/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS RESTRICTIONS ON TRADE "In a decision largely driven by his political advisers, President Bush set aside his free-trade principles last year and imposed heavy tariffs on imported steel to help out struggling mills in Pennsylvania and West Virginia, two states crucial for his reelection." [Washington Post, 9/19/03]

14. Osama Bin Laden

BUSH WANTS OSAMA DEAD OR ALIVE... "I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'" [President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01]

...BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT OSAMA "I don't know where he is.You know, I just don't spend that much time on him... I truly am not that concerned about him."[President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02]

15. The Environment

BUSH SUPPORTS MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE... "[If elected], Governor Bush will work to...establish mandatory reduction targets for emissions of four main pollutants: sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, mercury and carbon dioxide." [Bush Environmental Plan, 9/29/00]

...BUSH OPPOSES MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE "I do not believe, however, that the government should impose on power plants mandatory emissions reductions for carbon dioxide, which is not a 'pollutant' under the Clean Air Act." [President Bush, Letter to Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE), 3/13/03]

16. WMD Commission

BUSH RESISTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE... "The White House immediately turned aside the calls from Kay and many Democrats for an immediate outside investigation, seeking to head off any new wide-ranging election-year inquiry that might go beyond reports already being assembled by congressional committees and the Central Intelligence Agency." [NY Times, 1/29/04]

...BUSH SUPPORTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE "Today, by executive order, I am creating an independent commission, chaired by Governor and former Senator Chuck Robb, Judge Laurence Silberman, to look at American intelligence capabilities, especially our intelligence about weapons of mass destruction." [President Bush, 2/6/04]

17. Creation of the 9/11 Commission

BUSH OPPOSES CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush took a few minutes during his trip to Europe Thursday to voice his opposition to establishing a special commission to probe how the government dealt with terror warnings before Sept. 11." [CBS News, 5/23/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION "President Bush said today he now supports establishing an independent commission to investigate the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks." [ABC News, 09/20/02]

18. Time Extension for 9/11 Commission

BUSH OPPOSES TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush and House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) have decided to oppose granting more time to an independent commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks." [Washington Post, 1/19/04]

...BUSH SUPPORTS TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION "The White House announced Wednesday its support for a request from the commission investigating the September 11, 2001 attacks for more time to complete its work." [CNN, 2/4/04]

19. One Hour Limit for 9/11 Commission Testimony

BUSH LIMITS TESTIMONY IN FRONT OF 9/11 COMMISSION TO ONE HOUR... "President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have placed strict limits on the private interviews they will grant to the federal commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks, saying that they will meet only with the panel's top two officials and that Mr. Bush will submit to only a single hour of questioning, commission members said Wednesday." [NY Times, 2/26/04]

...BUSH SETS NO TIMELIMIT FOR TESTIMONY "The president's going to answer all of the questions they want to raise. Nobody's watching the clock." [White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 3/10/04]

20. Gay Marriage

BUSH SAYS GAY MARRIAGE IS A STATE ISSUE... "The state can do what they want to do. Don't try to trap me in this state's issue like you're trying to get me into." [Gov. George W. Bush on Gay Marriage, Larry King Live, 2/15/00]

...BUSH SUPPORTS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BANNING GAY MARRIAGE "Today I call upon the Congress to promptly pass, and to send to the states for ratification, an amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting marriage as a union of man and woman as husband and wife." [President Bush, 2/24/04]

21. Nation Building

BUSH OPPOSES NATION BUILDING... "If we don't stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, then we're going to have a serious problem coming down the road." [Gov. George W. Bush, 10/3/00]

...BUSH SUPPORTS NATION BUILDING "We will be changing the regime of Iraq, for the good of the Iraqi people." [President Bush, 3/6/03]

22. Saddam/al Qaeda Link

BUSH SAYS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEEN AL QAEDA AND SADDAM... "You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror." [President Bush, 9/25/02]

...BUSH SAYS SADDAM HAD NO ROLE IN AL QAEDA PLOT "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11." [President Bush, 9/17/03]

23. U.N. Resolution

BUSH VOWS TO HAVE A UN VOTE NO MATTER WHAT... "No matter what the whip count is, we're calling for the vote. We want to see people stand up and say what their opinion is about Saddam Hussein and the utility of the United Nations Security Council. And so, you bet. It's time for people to show their cards, to let the world know where they stand when it comes to Saddam." [President Bush 3/6/03]

...BUSH WITHDRAWS REQUEST FOR VOTE "At a National Security Council meeting convened at the White House at 8:55 a.m., Bush finalized the decision to withdraw the resolution from consideration and prepared to deliver an address to the nation that had already been written." [Washington Post, 3/18/03]

24. Involvement in the Palestinian Conflict

BUSH OPPOSES SUMMITS... "Well, we've tried summits in the past, as you may remember. It wasn't all that long ago where a summit was called and nothing happened, and as a result we had significant intifada in the area." [President Bush, 04/05/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS SUMMITS "If a meeting advances progress toward two states living side by side in peace, I will strongly consider such a meeting. I'm committed to working toward peace in the Middle East." [President Bush, 5/23/03]

25. Campaign Finance

BUSH OPPOSES MCCAIN-FEINGOLD... "George W. Bush opposes McCain-Feingold...as an infringement on free expression." [Washington Post, 3/28/2000]

...BUSH SIGNS MCCAIN-FEINGOLD INTO LAW "[T]his bill improves the current system of financing for Federal campaigns, and therefore I have signed it into law." [President Bush, at the McCain-Feingold signing ceremony, 03/27/02]

26. 527s

Bush opposes restrictions on 527s: "I also have reservations about the constitutionality of the broad ban on issue advertising [in McCain Feingold], which restrains the speech of a wide variety of groups on issues of public import." [President Bush, 3/27/02]

...Bush says 527s bad for system: "I don't think we ought to have 527s. I can't be more plain about it...I think they're bad for the system. That's why I signed the bill, McCain-Feingold." [President Bush, 8/23/04]

27. Medical Records

Bush says medical records must remain private: "I believe that we must protect...the right of every American to have confidence that his or her personal medical records will remain private." [President Bush, 4/12/01]

...Bush says patients' histories are not confidntial: The Justice Department...asserts that patients "no longer possess a reasonable expectation that their histories will remain completely confidential." [BusinessWeek, 4/30/04]

28. Timelines For Dictators

Bush sets timeline for Saddam: "If Iraq does not accept the terms within a week of passage or fails to disclose required information within 30 days, the resolution authorizes 'all necessary means' to force compliance--in other words, a military attack." [LA Times, 10/3/02]

...Bush says he's against timelines: "I don't think you give timelines to dictators." [President Bush, 8/27/04]

29. The Great Lakes

Bush wants to divert great lakes: "Even though experts say 'diverting any water from the Great Lakes region sets a bad precedent' Bush 'said he wants to talk to Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chrétien about piping water to parched states in the west and southwest.'- [AP, 7/19/01]

Bush says he'll never divert Great Lakes: "We've got to use our resources wisely, like water. It starts with keeping the Great Lakes water in the Great Lakes Basin...My position is clear: We're never going to allow diversion of Great Lakes water." [President Bush, 8/16/04]

30. Winning The War On Terror

Bush claims he can win the war on terror: "One of the interesting things people ask me, now that we're asking questions, is, can you ever win the war on terror? Of course, you can." [President Bush, 4/13/04]

...Bush says war on terror is unwinnable: "I don't think you can win [the war on terror]." [President Bush, 8/30/04]

...Bush says he will win the war on terror: "Make no mistake about it, we are winning and we will win [the war on terror]." [President Bush, 8/31/04]

1. Let's cover this one with some facts Zip. There is NO SS surplus and hasn't been since the 70's. The "lock box" is stuffed with IOU's because your congress has spent the 'surplus' every year since it was rolled into the general fund.

The second point is that the president can't spend squat. Only congress can spend a penny. Find somewhere else to hang this albatross.

2. This is disingenuous. No other word fits. First of all these are two completely separate issues.

What were the wording of the bills that Bush vetoed? He obviously signed one. The last one I presume. (Clinton vetoed two welfare reform bills before he signed the third.)

The Federal government has certain laws in place regarding insurance and law suits that supercede state law. Law that was in place prior to Bush being elected. Without congressional support this is going NOWHERE.

3. This isw so obtuse and bereft of detail as to make no sense.

4. Ever heard of negotiations and opening positions? You don't 'open' by giving away the store.

5. I'll give you this one Zip. I will point out that there is 12 years between quotes, not from one whistle stop to the next. Or in the same paragraph.

6. ??? This is an absurd stretch. He has, and they are within their resources.

7. If you can't see the qualifier in that alleged flip-flop, I've given you WAY to much credit for being able to read.

8. Once again, we have a negotiation issue. So what?

9. And I can find 60 scientist among which some will be Noble laureates that will agree with Bush. So what. This is stupid in the extreme.

10. Chalabi turned out not to be what he was thought to be. Hardly a flip flop. Ever broken off an acquaintanceship?

11. I'll give you this one too Zip. Only history will tell which course was right.

12. Again, you fail to read. Weapons WERE found, STOCKPILES were not.

13. This was a serious one alright.

14. Out of context presumption. Osama no longer represents the threat he did. Consequently he no longer requires the presidents personal daily attention. On the other hand, if there were NO concern, there wouldn't be so many US forces in Afghanistan looking for him.

15. OK in three years he's dropped one of the big four. And that's ONLY if you believe that CO2 is a dire threat. I don't and obviously neither does Bush anymore. Many esteemed scientists don't either.

16. This is a parsing of words. Of no consequence and of little value as political ammunition.

17. This is one that Bush gave in to public opinion. He did change his mind on this one.

18. Another negotiation position.

19. And another.

20. The courts have absolutely forced a change in this position. He is correct in the state issue. But it turns out that the constitution becomes an obstruction to this. Ergo, constitutional amendment.

21. This is a MAJOR stupid example. You can't take a regime down and leave a vacuum.

22. Anyone with any modicum of reading comprehension would blow this off. So I'm blowing it off.

23. Yep, good thing he did too.

24. See 21 for the answer.

25. Yeah, well we all know about this. He thought, as many of us did that the Supreme Court would overturn.

26. This is an example of a "Bushism", not a reversal.

27. See 21 again.

28. This one is a real flip flop.

29. Get real. I'd refer you to 21 again Zip. The Great Lakes are an international resource. If Canada nixes it, it isn't going to happen.

30. See 21 one more time Zip. That statement was clarified succinctly and cogently.

If this is the best the Democrats can do they have a mighty weak case Zip.

Ishmael

 

[busybody..]

Lick a pickel

Weak answers to weaker examples

You shoulda stuck with my answers and disguised it as you own, like you usually do.

 

[RobDownSouth]

22. Anyone with any modicum of reading comprehension would blow this off. So I'm blowing it off.

I'm calling a foul on this one.

You've proven over and over that you have precious little understanding of what you read (does the phrase "I read the wrong column, Pookie!" ring any bells?). I'd say your reading comprehension skills are negligible, even by the relaxed standard we use for right wing extremists on the General Board.

Suffice to say, your rebuttal above was remarkably content-free, long on editorializing and virtually devoid of facts.

Zipman made you look foolish, Ishmael.

Again.

 

[busybody..]

Re #22 is actually very clear

Its akin to saying Barry Bonds and Pedro Martinez are great ballplayers

Though they play in different leagues, different positions, and dont face each other..........

SH and OBL are terrorist kingpins

They dont act in concert

Whats the problem

To not understand that simple concept borders on being RobbyLike, you know DOPEY!

 

[Fawkin'Injun]

When did Throb move from Houston to Atlanta?

 

[zipman]

Well Zip, as long as you took the time to C&P these Democratic talking points, I imagine I can take the time to actually type out the answers. :-D



1. Let's cover this one with some facts Zip. There is NO SS surplus and hasn't been since the 70's. The "lock box" is stuffed with IOU's because your congress has spent the 'surplus' every year since it was rolled into the general fund.

The second point is that the president can't spend squat. Only congress can spend a penny. Find somewhere else to hang this albatross.

2. This is disingenuous. No other word fits. First of all these are two completely separate issues.

What were the wording of the bills that Bush vetoed? He obviously signed one. The last one I presume. (Clinton vetoed two welfare reform bills before he signed the third.)

The Federal government has certain laws in place regarding insurance and law suits that supercede state law. Law that was in place prior to Bush being elected. Without congressional support this is going NOWHERE.

3. This isw so obtuse and bereft of detail as to make no sense.

4. Ever heard of negotiations and opening positions? You don't 'open' by giving away the store.

5. I'll give you this one Zip. I will point out that there is 12 years between quotes, not from one whistle stop to the next. Or in the same paragraph.

6. ??? This is an absurd stretch. He has, and they are within their resources.

7. If you can't see the qualifier in that alleged flip-flop, I've given you WAY to much credit for being able to read.

8. Once again, we have a negotiation issue. So what?

9. And I can find 60 scientist among which some will be Noble laureates that will agree with Bush. So what. This is stupid in the extreme.

10. Chalabi turned out not to be what he was thought to be. Hardly a flip flop. Ever broken off an acquaintanceship?

11. I'll give you this one too Zip. Only history will tell which course was right.

12. Again, you fail to read. Weapons WERE found, STOCKPILES were not.

13. This was a serious one alright.

14. Out of context presumption. Osama no longer represents the threat he did. Consequently he no longer requires the presidents personal daily attention. On the other hand, if there were NO concern, there wouldn't be so many US forces in Afghanistan looking for him.

15. OK in three years he's dropped one of the big four. And that's ONLY if you believe that CO2 is a dire threat. I don't and obviously neither does Bush anymore. Many esteemed scientists don't either.

16. This is a parsing of words. Of no consequence and of little value as political ammunition.

17. This is one that Bush gave in to public opinion. He did change his mind on this one.

18. Another negotiation position.

19. And another.

20. The courts have absolutely forced a change in this position. He is correct in the state issue. But it turns out that the constitution becomes an obstruction to this. Ergo, constitutional amendment.

21. This is a MAJOR stupid example. You can't take a regime down and leave a vacuum.

22. Anyone with any modicum of reading comprehension would blow this off. So I'm blowing it off.

23. Yep, good thing he did too.

24. See 21 for the answer.

25. Yeah, well we all know about this. He thought, as many of us did that the Supreme Court would overturn.

26. This is an example of a "Bushism", not a reversal.

27. See 21 again.

28. This one is a real flip flop.

29. Get real. I'd refer you to 21 again Zip. The Great Lakes are an international resource. If Canada nixes it, it isn't going to happen.

30. See 21 one more time Zip. That statement was clarified succinctly and cogently.

If this is the best the Democrats can do they have a mighty weak case Zip.

Ishmael

Okay Ish, first off, thank you for taking the time to respond to them point by point even if I do find some of your answers less than accurate. let's look at them point by point.

1) This is clearly a flip flop. While the president can't spend squat, he does make the budget and he clearly went back on his promise not to target or allocate in his budget any surplus in Social Security to fund other programs which he clearly did.

2) As a governor, he was against a patients right to sue, as a candidate he was for it and as President, he was against it again. You're right though, I wouldn't call that a flip flop, I would call it a double flip flop.

3) I'll give you this one as it does seem to shy on facts.

4) Everheard of a flip flop, because that is what this one is. Bush made both comments as President, and as a president, one would assume that he had a basic understanding of how to negotiate so your defense of this falls far short. He said he wouldn't offer incentives and then he offers incentives. Flip flop.

5) Acknowledged flip flop.

6) I have no idea what you are talking about in your response to this question. He said a president should talk to OPEC and then he says he won't talk to OPEC. Unless he meant that other presidents should talk to them but he doesn't have to, that is clearly a flip flop.

7) Given his qualifier, Iswill attribute this to naivete and poor planning and while either of those are not good qualities to have in a president, perhaps he truly believed it (woe is us) and it isn't a flip flop, but rather another example of his incopetence as commander in chief.

8) Once again we have a flip flop, not a negotiation. Who was he negotiating with? A commision whose purpose was to investigate the failures of this government and try and correct the problem in the future? He should have volunteered her for this, not tried to stonewall it. Regardless of any of that, he stated his opposition based on principle and then flip flopped when it was clear the american people were demanding accountability from their president. It may have been forced on him, but it is a flip flop all the same.

9) Actually this isn't a flip flop, it's just a lie. A blatant lie told to the american people. Shame on him.

10) I'll give you this one too. He didn't flip flop, he just showed incredibly poor judgement and was made to look like a fool. Yeah, that's a real feather in his cap from a qualifications standpoint.

11) Acknowledged flip flop.

12) I know this is hard for you but there were no WMD's Ish, unless you count that one old shell they found with remnants of mustard gas. Talk about disingenuous. Had you posted this before the report I might have actually cut you some slack but this is just an example of you stubbornly and foolishly clinging to what you want to believe, not what is actually true. It's either a lie or a flip flop, neither of which helps make your case.

13) Acknowledged flip flop.

14) Utterly ridiculous answer Ish. He said we're going to get him "dead or alive." Not we're going to look for him until he isn't a threat anymore, which hasn't been proven at all. He flip flopped on the US' #1 enemy who he swore to pursue and all of a sudden he doesn't matter to us? Sorry, that's a flip flop.

15) He supported mandatory caps then and now he opposes them. How much clearer could it possibly be? And you talk about my reading comprehension? Flip flop.

16) The question isn't how valuable is this as "political ammunition" but rather did he flip flop on his stance? The answer is clearly, YES, he did flip flop.

17) Acknowledged flip flop.

18) No, not a negotiation position but a clear flip flop within a two week period. He wasn't negotiating, he was trying to save his skin as congress or the american people wouldn't stand for his original position. I won't even get into how pathetic it is that the President ever opposed the commission. Flip flop.

19) You're right, it is the same as above. Flip flop.

20) He went from supporting the "state's rights" to advocating a consitutional amendment to deal with this on a federal level. Flip flop.

21) Granted there was the 9/11 attack but he still has gone from being opposed to nation building ot taking on two of the largest nation building missions in US history. Flip flop.

22) I'll actually give you this one as the two are worded differently although considering his many attempts to link Iraq to the 9/11 attacks, I probably shouldn't.

23) Acknowledged flip flop.

24) Those are two completely different issues. Obviously you are the one with reading comprehension issues. What does this have to do with nation building? Flip flop.

25) Acknowledged flip flop.

26) Perhaps you meant Bullshitism instead of Bushism? A Bushism is using words like "nucular" or "strategery." This was a flip flop or he would have vetoed it.

27) Yet another clear flip flop that you are in denial about. At this point, I have to ask is English your second language?

28) Acknowledged flip flop.

29) Whether or not Canada would support it is totally irrelavant. He completely reversed his stance on the issue. Flip flop.

30) We will win it, you can't win it, we will win it. Double flip flop.


You disproved two of them, and a few others should really be considered lies instead of flip flops.

All you've shown in your rebuttal is how disingenuous you are with applying different criteria based on the candidate instead of the issue of flip flopping.

Bush has clearly flip flopped a lot more than Kerry has and your rather pathetic explanations for the changes don't really change that fact.

While I'm sure that you will continue to support Bush, perhaps others will see that one of the main arguments used against Kerry by the republicans is more of an indictment of Bush than of Kerry. But thanks again for answering.

 

[zipman]

Bump

 

[Pookie]

Re: Re: Your answer Zip

I'm calling a foul on this one.

You've proven over and over that you have precious little understanding of what you read (does the phrase "I read the wrong column, Pookie!" ring any bells?). I'd say your reading comprehension skills are negligible, even by the relaxed standard we use for right wing extremists on the General Board.

Suffice to say, your rebuttal above was remarkably content-free, long on editorializing and virtually devoid of facts.

Zipman made you look foolish, Ishmael.

Again.

 

[TheOlderGuy]

i'm just here to ogle Pookie's av
cause i knew before opening the thread
that zip would kick ish's pimpled ass.

::gbers:: that's all they are

 

[zipman]

Re: Re: Re: Your answer Zip

I knew you would enjoy this thread.

 

[RobDownSouth]

It's always fun to watch Ishmael posture and prevaricate when the facts aren't on his side.

 

[zipman]

It's always fun to watch Ishmael posture and prevaricate when the facts aren't on his side.

At least Ish tried to answer them, which is more than I can say for any of the other more vocal republicans on the site.

 

[zipman]

*listens to crickets*

 

[zipman]

http://www.indotalisman.com/hands_twiddling_thumbs_fast_md_clr.gif

 

[Problem Child]

How can people defend this utter fool? It's beyond me.

 

[Lasher]

How can people defend this utter fool? It's beyond me.

On this thread you'll have to more specific, but I can't imagine anyone here is defending Ish.

 

[Pookie]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Your answer Zip

I knew you would enjoy this thread.

Uh huh.

But it does look like you're trying to be the new leader of the thread killas.

 

[zipman]

On this thread you'll have to more specific, but I can't imagine anyone here is defending Ish.

LMAO!


Pookie - I am indeed.

 

[Problem Child]

On this thread you'll have to more specific, but I can't imagine anyone here is defending Ish.

I guess I left that door wide open. Unintentionally, of course.

 

[Drinking Cap]

29. Get real. I'd refer you to 21 again Zip. The Great Lakes are an international resource. If Canada nixes it, it isn't going to happen.

Most of them are, one of them isn't. If Bush really wanted to divert some water, he could do it without the tiniest bit of consent from our government.

But as to the general point, there's no reason to believe Canada would nix it if Bush approached the idea from a you know, negotiating with equal partners standpoint.

 

[zipman]

And the silence from the Bushites is deafening.

 

[killallhippies]

Re: Re: Your answer Zip

Most of them are, one of them isn't. If Bush really wanted to divert some water, he could do it without the tiniest bit of consent from our government.

But as to the general point, there's no reason to believe Canada would nix it if Bush approached the idea from a you know, negotiating with equal partners standpoint.

lake michigan is ours! all ours! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

[zipman]

Re: Re: Re: Your answer Zip

lake michigan is ours! all ours! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Pollution and all!

 

[TheOlderGuy]

And the silence from the Bushites is deafening.

don't you think ishy's got better things to do
than back up his bullshit?

 

[zipman]

don't you think ishy's got better things to do
than back up his bullshit?

While that is true, I find it odd that so many of the other Bush supporters who throw out stupid one liners haven't come in to discuss this.

Miles, AJ, Devilish Texan, et al are the first to say Kerry is a flip flopper but are unwilling to face the fact that Bush has done it more than Kerry has.