You Learn Something New Everyday.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Since this IS an author's hangout, it may be interesting to post tricks of the trade of writing. Post your favorites. Like:

When writing dialog, toss "said" overboard. Show the speaker's affect before or after the quote...Stella twirled the tip of her moustache between her fingers and squinted her good eye, "I dont think I look different from any other female poster on LIT."

"Affect" is a psychiatric term meaning a snapshot of a person's mood and behavior.

 

[Boota]

I like that approach myself, but sometimes a simple "said" attributive is equally, or possibly more effective. A large block of dialogue lines with "said Fred" and "said Bill" can get monotonous, though.

My two cents on attributives is not to use them when they're not needed. But make damn sure they're not needed before excising them, said Boota.

 

[starrkers]

I rarely attribute speech. I usually do it only when it could be confusing as to who spoke. And I can't remember the last time I used 'x said' to do it.

 

[fieryjen]

I try to do everything in moderation.

I remember once reading an article on the overuse of other, complicated words where the author could have put a simple "she said", and I realized I was guilty of that. So while my characters do gasp and explain and all that, I don't stay away from saying completely.

I also often use affects instead of the "he said" phrase, like you suggested, since that adds variety. But I wouldn't force myself to do that exclusively. Otherwise I pretty much do what feels right for that particular moment when the character speaks, I don't try to force a different form just because.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I try to do everything in moderation.

I remember once reading an article on the overuse of other, complicated words where the author could have put a simple "she said", and I realized I was guilty of that. So while my characters do gasp and explain and all that, I don't stay away from saying completely.

I also often use affects instead of the "he said" phrase, like you suggested, since that adds variety. But I wouldn't force myself to do that exclusively. Otherwise I pretty much do what feels right for that particular moment when the character speaks, I don't try to force a different form just because.

I agree, but I also believe that the attribution gets old very quickly. I might say something like: "Just give us the money," the tall one said quietly as he kept his shotgun trained on my chest.

Admittedly, I am including an adverb there, and not making "said" stand alone.

 

[Weird Harold]

I also often use affects instead of the "he said" phrase, like you suggested, since that adds variety. But I wouldn't force myself to do that exclusively. Otherwise I pretty much do what feels right for that particular moment when the character speaks, I don't try to force a different form just because.

I wrote a short story of just under two thousand words that is all dialogue and contains not one single dialogue tag or "affect."

It wasn't even all that hard to write -- it's not a particularly good story as stories go, more like an extended dirty joke than a real story, but it was written as proof that it could be done.

Those who have read it tell me that they have gone back to look for dialogue tags they know must be there.

In normal, non-demonstration, dialogue, I do use dialogue tags, but very sparingly because they interrupt the flow of the conversation.

In other non-dialogue writing tips:

Sit down and let the words flow through your fingers to the computer or paper without worryinag about spelling or grammar until you run out of words. When you run out of words, go nback and delete the two-thirds that is total garbage and edit the remaining third into a story.

 

[fieryjen]

Sit down and let the words flow through your fingers to the computer or paper without worryinag about spelling or grammar until you run out of words. When you run out of words, go nback and delete the two-thirds that is total garbage and edit the remaining third into a story.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I wrote a short story of just under two thousand words that is all dialogue and contains not one single dialogue tag or "affect."

It wasn't even all that hard to write -- it's not a particularly good story as stories go, more like an extended dirty joke than a real story, but it was written as proof that it could be done.

Those who have read it tell me that they have gone back to look for dialogue tags they know must be there.

In normal, non-demonstration, dialogue, I do use dialogue tags, but very sparingly because they interrupt the flow of the conversation.

In other non-dialogue writing tips:

Sit down and let the words flow through your fingers to the computer or paper without worryinag about spelling or grammar until you run out of words. When you run out of words, go nback and delete the two-thirds that is total garbage and edit the remaining third into a story.

I don't think I would be able to do what you say in boldface. If I have a typo, my Spellcheck usually tells me about it, and I get the heebie-jeebies if I don't go back and correct it.

 

[fieryjen]

I don't think I would be able to do what you say in boldface. If I have a typo, my Spellcheck usually tells me about it, and I get the heebie-jeebies if I don't go back and correct it.

That's why I've got the check-while-you-type spellchecker turned off. It doesn't bitch at me until I run it manually. I like it that way.

 

[Weird Harold]

I don't think I would be able to do what you say in boldface. If I have a typo, my Spellcheck usually tells me about it, and I get the heebie-jeebies if I don't go back and correct it.

The wise old man who gave me that advice also advised that I do as Jen did and turn off correct while you type. I found that when you hit novella length in a single document, the check-while-you-type tries to recheck the entire document every-time you correct something it's highlighted; when you hit 150-175K it can give the apparanceof a locked up computer for the three to five minutes it takes for it to recheck the entire document for every correction made.

Truth be told, I can't really do exactly as told because If I don't correct some of my more egregious typos as soon as I spot them, I'll never figure out what I was trying to say. But I can and do postpone any concern about spelling and punctuation until the creative part is over.

The essence of the advice has also been stated as "it isn't Writing that makes a good story, it's editing; and re-editing."

 

[sr71plt]

Since this IS an author's hangout, it may be interesting to post tricks of the trade of writing. Post your favorites. Like:

When writing dialog, toss "said" overboard. Show the speaker's affect before or after the quote...Stella twirled the tip of her moustache between her fingers and squinted her good eye, "I dont think I look different from any other female poster on LIT."

"Affect" is a psychiatric term meaning a snapshot of a person's mood and behavior.

You wind up with an ungrammatical runon sentence in this example.

 

[ms.read]

I have a question on the whole dialogue thing.

My dilemma is this: I cannot submit my lit stories because they're just so Damn AWFUL.

Case in point: My stories don't have any dialogue. Now this may be well and good for a short stroke story, but I would like to try my hand at something more developed.


"Now I would like to add some dialogue" said the writer to the page

The paper crinkled with disdain before replying "But you never know where to put the comma's if you start the dailogue after the affectation."

"Also," The pencil interjected," In a long peice of dialogue of more than two characters, don't you have to label each blurb with 'said character's name?' "


Can you help me?

 

[sr71plt]

I have a question on the whole dialogue thing.

My dilemma is this: I cannot submit my lit stories because they're just so Damn AWFUL.

Case in point: My stories don't have any dialogue. Now this may be well and good for a short stroke story, but I would like to try my hand at something more developed.


"Now I would like to add some dialogue" said the writer to the page

The paper crinkled with disdain before replying "But you never know where to put the comma's if you start the dailogue after the affectation."

"Also," The pencil interjected," In a long peice of dialogue of more than two characters, don't you have to label each blurb with 'said character's name?' "


Can you help me?

Between "dialogue" and the quotation mark in example one.

After "replying" in example two

I just added about a bjillion commas to an example over on the Story Feeback board that shows dialogue treatment of this nature.

And, yes, if you have more than two characters, it will quickly become impossible to identify who is speaking the dialogue without identifying the speaker.

 

[starrkers]

"Now I would like to add some dialogue," said the writer to the page.

The paper crinkled with disdain before replying. "But you never know where to put the comma's if you start the dailogue after the affectation." you could also use a comma, but then you don't need the capital B in But

"Also," the pencil interjected," in a long peice of dialogue of more than two characters, don't you have to label each blurb with 'said character's name'?"

Not necessarily. Disclaimer: Folllowing dialogue is complete crap, but should illustrate the point.

"What did you want?" Fred said.
"An answer," Julie replied.
"But what was the question?"
"I don't know."
"It seems then, that you're a bit ahead of yourself."
"Yes. I guess I am."
Fred snuggled closer. "Why don't we just forget it and go to bed?"

 

[Weird Harold]

How To Make Characters Talk by Whispersecret (I don't know if se still grades the letle test a the end of the essay, but I really doubt that you'll need it graded.)

"Now I would like to add some dialogue" said the writer to the page

Whispersecrets essay will help you with the punctuation and attrbutions. What she doesn't really cover, IIRC, is over-attribution -- eg "said the writer to the page."

"I would like to add some dialogue," the writer told the page.
or

"I'd like add some dialogue, Page," the author said. (not quite as good because "page" could be a title or a name as well as an inanimate object -- but the contraction makes it sound more natural; most people don't speak formally to their work or tools.

The paper crinkled with disdain before replying "But you never know where to put the comma's if you start the dialogue after the affectation."

The Affectation is almost always a separate sentence and if it's more than just parenthetical probably a separate paragraph, too. In your example, I'd delete "before replying:"

The paper crinkled with disdain. "But you never know where to put the comma's if you start the dialogue after the affectation."

"Also," The pencil interjected," In a long piece of dialogue of more than two characters, don't you have to label each blurb with 'said character's name?' "

No matter how many characters are involved, it is almost always one character speaking in response to another -- IOW a multi-sided conversation is usually a series of two-sided conversations. You only need to identify the speaker when a new speaker joins or it become unclear who is speaking.

You can also use "organic tagging" or letting the dialogue identify who is speaking:

"Listen up, everyone! I've got a list of things we need to do today before we can get the Orgy started."

"Who put you in charge, George?"

"I did, Homer. George is the only one with the organizational skill to handle preperations."

"Jill's right! George's the best one for the job. I sure didn't marry you for your organizational skills."

"Ah, Harriet, Honey pie, you didn't have to say that. He's just always telling everybody what to do. ..."

In that example, each speaker identified the previous speaker and the dialogue is short enough that the reader can owait one or wo sentences to figure out who is speaking.

From that point, it's merely a matter of keeping the occasional reminder going when things get off track. In a somewhat contentious conversation like my example could turnout to be, it might degenerate into, "Shut up, Homer!" "Stifle it!" and "Jerk!" rang out nearly simultaneously -- and it doesn't really matter who said which.

You can also use questions or direct statements to identify the following speakers:

"Homer, Did you finish with the pool?"

"Didn't know it was on my list. I thought Jill had that job."

"No, I thought it was on Harriet's list."

"Nope, Not mine either. Are you sure you put it somebody's list, George?

"I could have sworn it was on Homer's list. OH! Never mind, it's on my list. I'll get right on it."

The only real rick to writing dialogue is to resist the urge to "talk down to the reader" by over tagging and/or over-describing the action. Unless it's crucial to the action that your villian is twirling his mustaches while he's saying something specific, then disconnect the dilaogue and the action:

Snidely twirled his mustaches and gloated.

"You'll never escape this peril, Pauline. I've got the dynamite fuse cut as short as I can and the Sawmill blade is already only inches away. Jones will never get here in time to save you!"

"Am I early, then, Jones asked, tapping Snidley on the shoulder.

"Don't do that!" Snidley yelled. "Youn ever play fair anyway, so just go ahead and save her if you can.

Snidley through the power switch for the saw and touched the fuse with his cigar, laughing maniacally all the while.

Jones punched Snidley, tripped the switch for the saw back off and picked up Snideley's cigar. "You know bubble gum cigars aren't very good for lighting fuses, Snidley."

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

MS.READ

James Agee wrote a book I like. In it he violates most of the major rules. The first chapter is entirely 'telling' with zero dialog. It's very interesting, and he won a Pulitzer for it.

 

[emap]

Sometimes the best thing to do is do nothing. Though not in writing.

So really conversations are simple, keep it short, and tag the first time someone says something with a descritpion or tag of some sort to allocate it to a specific person. After all persons talking are tagged, keep up the same line of conversation, as in Jack and Jill, Jack speaks first then Jill, keep that going throughout the conversation or create new tags if say one interupts and the conversation continues.

Of course keep the conversations short. A book or story is to show people, not make them read a conversation for ten minutes. Think about The Lord of the Rings. The conversation takes up a grand total of like 20 pages, the three books combined take up 646 pages I think. The greatest amount of the pages are filled with descriptions, then the songs and poems. Frodo does not wax poetic about every tiny little thing, Gandalf does not explain himself, nor do they need to, they speak only when it is called for and the rest of the time, you see the world they are traveling in.

Above all, KISS is the way to go, Keep It Simple Stupid. I know annoying thing to hear, but it is really the absolute best thing for writing or well anything. Strive to make it as simple as possible and it will be. It will also turn out good, usually.

 

[ms.read]

Good informational answers. Hopefully my writng will improve...

 

[sr71plt]

MS.READ

James Agee wrote a book I like. In it he violates most of the major rules. The first chapter is entirely 'telling' with zero dialog. It's very interesting, and he won a Pulitzer for it.

Did he do that one with his first book? Or his second? Or did he do that after he was an established moneymaker for publishers?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

It was his last book.

 

[ms.read]

I will have to look him up!


another question. In a piece of fictional writing that is in htird person how does the author put down the information of what a character is thinking to themselves?

 

[Boxlicker101]

I will have to look him up!


another question. In a piece of fictional writing that is in htird person how does the author put down the information of what a character is thinking to themselves?

He or she just does. The author is omnipotent, and knows everything about everybody, including what they are thinking.

 

[Weird Harold]

I will have to look him up!


another question. In a piece of fictional writing that is in htird person how does the author put down the information of what a character is thinking to themselves?

Punctuate internal dialogue exactly like external dialogue except substitute Italics fro quotation marks.

It's not quite that simple because different style guides have different standards -- the newest seems to be to simply omit the quotation marks for thoughts.

FWIW, Unless your character is a projective telepath "think to himself" is redundant because he can't think to anyone else.

 

[sr71plt]

I will have to look him up!


another question. In a piece of fictional writing that is in htird person how does the author put down the information of what a character is thinking to themselves?

In third person, you would have to identify somehow who was doing the thinking (it's not the narrator, who isn't one of the characters)--and that it was thought . Then, according to the latest Chicago Manual of Style provisions, you'd put the thought in doube quote marks or just in regular roman type (not italics). I think italics is the clearest, but CMA dropped that as a preferred technique in its latest edition.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Punctuate internal dialogue exactly like external dialogue except substitute Italics fro quotation marks.

It's not quite that simple because different style guides have different standards -- the newest seems to be to simply omit the quotation marks for thoughts.

FWIW, Unless your character is a projective telepath "think to himself" is redundant because he can't think to anyone else.

I just use quotation marks. "Now what?" John asked himself. "How do I get this bra unfastened without her knowing it?"