You ever discuss law...

[Rrrosyn]

... or even know your State laws?

All I know is I live in California and we DO NOT have a law of consent. No matter how many years you've been flogging you submissive wife/husband if your neighbors report seeing bruises and call domestic services you get arrested. You may not go to jail if subbie testicifes and doesn't press charges, but you can be scarred in the community. Gods forbid your sub/spouse decides they want "revenge" for something.

A Dom met a sub in northern California and her neighbor reported it. When he returned the next day (and he'd left his toys) for another session he was arrested. Supposedly, she was too embarrassed to admit to being a masochist that he spent a few days in jail. She didn't press charges, but didn't own up to enjoying it either. His career and life were ruined enough that he had to move. This was a "meeting for a scene" instance, but it made me find out that we have no consent laws here... that I can be charged years down the road, if a nosy neighbor were to report me. I am willing to bet other places don't have consent laws either.

Does anyone keep marks strictly out of sight for this reason? I never mark sub in any area his work clothing won't cover. Not even a hickie.

Are you in the closet enough about your lifestyle? I know my mother knows, my sister (who used to be sub's boss) knew. But since I don't have many friends locally, no one else does, or will! (Munch group excluded.)

Here we are trying to educate people about the differences... how?

 

[catalina_francisco]

These are just a few of the reasons it is so nice living in The Netherlands.

Catalina

 

[Rrrosyn]

These are just a few of the reasons it is so nice living in The Netherlands.

Catalina

From what I've heard it is very sex friendly.

 

[catalina_francisco]

From what I've heard it is very sex friendly.

...and kink friendly, gay friendly, age friendly, very open minded, though the tide could always change if people begin buying political BS.

Catalina

 

[sphynx's dragon]

We keep all marks on me out of sight for work purposes. Nevermind everyday life in general. Kinda bothers both of us that we have to hide what we are and how we interact between each other from the world in general. <shrug> I wish I could just be me in the world but that would be wholly unacceptable as well as costing us my job and our lively hood. <sigh> Some days stupid people really suck.

 

[chris9]

It's a very difficult topic. Of course I'm all for being honest and not being arrested for our kinks. But I'm also for fighting against domestic violence. And if a neighbor sees or hears any signs of abuse (and let's face it, some of our kinks do look abusive from the outside (there was a thread I think by DVS on this subject)) I really think they should call the police. Talking to the "victim" won't help if it's a case of abuse. You can't be arrested if your sub consents. But if they don't own that they did, or if they want to revenge themselves, it will be a hard case.
For around here I believe that having a written consent and being able to show something more serious on the subject of BDSM (like 'HowTo'-books, Lit) as opposed to 'sick' porn should get you out of the suspicion of abuse/rape. But then we include sexual freedom in our definition of the freedom guaranteed by the constitution. Good to be in Europe!

 

[Shy_Joanna]

I have never thought about the law issue...I've got no idea what the law is in respect of BDSM in England...perhaps I'd best get studying

 

[Killishandra]

I have heard that the laws here in Hawaii forbid S&M as well as sodomy. I'm not 100% sure on that... it would be well worth checking into, and this thread is a good reminder of that. But whatever the law, my Dom makes no particular effort to hide bruises and teeth marks. Sometimes I tell Him I look like a victim of domestic abuse and He'll laugh and say "But you are!" lol.

I think the fact that I take martial arts would be a reasonable explanation for bruises, if someone asked, and I don't think anyone will bother me about bite marks, especially since my hair or clothing generally covers those. Probably the greatest danger is in living in apartment buildings, because if the neighbors hear me screaming in pain they won't know it's the good kind, and call the police. hmmm. (But that is what ball gags are for, right? )

 

[FurryFury]

The law is only a problem if you get caught. I've made an art of not getting caught at anything over the years.

It is better to ask forgiveness later than permission before or to not do what you want at all imo.

Studying the law can be interesting. It can also make you paranoid.

Fury

 

[chris9]

The law is only a problem if you get caught. I've made an art of not getting caught at anything over the years.

It is better to ask forgiveness later than permission before or to not do what you want at all imo.

Studying the law can be interesting. It can also make you paranoid.

Fury

It helps to know at what actions you shouldn't get caught, though... Thus, knowing the law can help. I agree on the interesting, though I don't think I'm getting paranoid...

 

[FurryFury]

It helps to know at what actions you shouldn't get caught, though... Thus, knowing the law can help. I agree on the interesting, though I don't think I'm getting paranoid...

Oh I didn't mean you were getting paranoid! I have a tendency to paranoia and I'm highly suggestible. Therefore reading about such things or diseases for instance, is not the best thing for me. LOL!

Abstract cases in law is cool though, I love those. I used to do that all the time. It drove my first husband a bit mad since he was in law school and I knew more about the cases than he did.

Fury

 

[chris9]

Oh I didn't mean you were getting paranoid! I have a tendency to paranoia and I'm highly suggestible. Therefore reading about such things or diseases for instance, is not the best thing for me. LOL!

Abstract cases in law is cool though, I love those. I used to do that all the time. It drove my first husband a bit mad since he was in law school and I knew more about the cases than he did.

Fury

I didn't take it you meant I was getting paranoid. Just a bit of fun, I guess, that I'm not so great with in foreign languages.
And the law system here is different, so we don't do so many cases, more learning to understand laws. But I do understand your notion. That's one reason I really hate penalty law, too many evil people and you really start questioning the intentions of everyone around...

 

[FurryFury]

I spent years being threatened by my ex that he would take me to court or kidnap our child. Even though his "cases" would have been seen as frivolous, it was difficult to say the least.

It was very clear to me that if I couldn't expect action on his abuse and neglect our child, the crap he was pissed off about would not stand up in court. I wish I had never put him through law school now.

I think you are doing great with a foreign language! I am really impressed!

Fury

 

[chris9]

I spent years being threatened by my ex that he would take me to court or kidnap our child. Even though his "cases" would have been seen as frivolous, it was difficult to say the least.

It was very clear to me that if I couldn't expect action on his abuse and neglect our child, the crap he was pissed off about would not stand up in court. I wish I had never put him through law school now.

I think you are doing great with a foreign language! I am really impressed!

Fury

I hate 'evil' lawyers, those that are not honest and not just. I just fear that most are, thus we have a really bad reputation, all over the world

Thanks, I know I'm not bad with my English. Studying it for 9 years at school and spending a year in the US does help with it... Jokes, sarcasm, and irony are pretty hard at times, though.

 

[Red Sonja]

Okay... as the evil subbie lawyer...

Go to Findlaw.com It will allow you to search your own individual states statutes, and in most instances... the case law as well. This provides you with a heads up... as in, does your state have a mandatory arrest policy or not?

These are important details... if one is operating gagless and within the hearing of nosy neighbors... ah, the bliss of the american outback...

where no one can hear me scream but the buffalo.

 

[flowerchilde]

Go to Findlaw.com

Is there a Canadian site like this? I'd love to have it book marked since I love knowing about different laws! It pays to be informed of your rights!!

 

[Rrrosyn]

We keep all marks on me out of sight for work purposes. Nevermind everyday life in general. Kinda bothers both of us that we have to hide what we are and how we interact between each other from the world in general. <shrug> I wish I could just be me in the world but that would be wholly unacceptable as well as costing us my job and our lively hood. <sigh> Some days stupid people really suck.

Exactly. We keep all his marks hidden for work and school. He's the quiet type who tink sex belongs in the bedroom anyway, so people not knowing we do BDSM is fine by him. On the other hand, he doesn't have the engagement ring, I do... so there is nothing marking him. I ordered the removal of the RPA I got him because of migration and haven't been able to afford a tattoo of my tastes to replace it yet.

The only reminders he has are a leather wrist band he cannot wear to work and times when we play with something smelly and I leave him a scented posty-note(to match the night before) in his lunch.

 

[Rrrosyn]

It's a very difficult topic. Of course I'm all for being honest and not being arrested for our kinks. But I'm also for fighting against domestic violence. And if a neighbor sees or hears any signs of abuse (and let's face it, some of our kinks do look abusive from the outside (there was a thread I think by DVS on this subject)) I really think they should call the police. Talking to the "victim" won't help if it's a case of abuse. You can't be arrested if your sub consents. But if they don't own that they did, or if they want to revenge themselves, it will be a hard case.
For around here I believe that having a written consent and being able to show something more serious on the subject of BDSM (like 'HowTo'-books, Lit) as opposed to 'sick' porn should get you out of the suspicion of abuse/rape. But then we include sexual freedom in our definition of the freedom guaranteed by the constitution. Good to be in Europe!

Here you can be arrested but not kept if the sub comes in and says it was by choice. Unless there are broken bones or something really serious.

I actually come from a family that suffered emotional abuse at the hand of my father. Nothing physical, but enough to make us all cautious. I've also had a physically abusive B-i-L living with me, which still makes me cringe at the thought of such violent erruptions for no reason. (I wish neighbors had called a few of those times... ) Heck, I chose the dominant role for the illusion of safety as much as the turn on, and subby knows it.

(Makes a note to pick up tasteful and educational materials and hide the dirty porn. Just in case.)

 

[Rrrosyn]

Go to Findlaw.com It will allow you to search your own individual states statutes, and in most instances... the case law as well. This provides you with a heads up... as in, does your state have a mandatory arrest policy or not?

These are important details... if one is operating gagless and within the hearing of nosy neighbors... ah, the bliss of the american outback...

where no one can hear me scream but the buffalo.

That's a kewl site! TY

(Of course finding and understanding it all might be harder than clicking the link.)

 

[Rrrosyn]

I have heard that the laws here in Hawaii forbid S&M as well as sodomy. I'm not 100% sure on that... it would be well worth checking into, and this thread is a good reminder of that. But whatever the law, my Dom makes no particular effort to hide bruises and teeth marks. Sometimes I tell Him I look like a victim of domestic abuse and He'll laugh and say "But you are!" lol.

I think the fact that I take martial arts would be a reasonable explanation for bruises, if someone asked, and I don't think anyone will bother me about bite marks, especially since my hair or clothing generally covers those. Probably the greatest danger is in living in apartment buildings, because if the neighbors hear me screaming in pain they won't know it's the good kind, and call the police. hmmm. (But that is what ball gags are for, right? )

Sodomy is illegal (but ignored) in most of the US. It's even on lawbooks at city and local levels. Where it is enforced... that would be what people need to be aware of.


Gonna stop my rush of replys. Looks like I am talking to myself and not making sense. Everyone knows I make perfect sense when I talk to myself.

 

[chris9]

physically abusive B-i-L living with me

B-i-L?

 

[chris9]

Sodomy is illegal (but ignored) in most of the US. It's even on lawbooks at city and local levels. Where it is enforced... that would be what people need to be aware of.


Gonna stop my rush of replys. Looks like I am talking to myself and not making sense. Everyone knows I make perfect sense when I talk to myself.

I don't think I will ever understand how the US can consider itself THE countrey of freedom in the world... I know we have more personal freedom, even with the less in economical freedom I'd still think I can live my life like I want more here than there...

 

[Rrrosyn]

I don't think I will ever understand how the US can consider itself THE countrey of freedom in the world... I know we have more personal freedom, even with the less in economical freedom I'd still think I can live my life like I want more here than there...

If I were rich, I'd keep US Citizenship and live somewhere else. Unless I really, really, really liked that somewhere else. I could be so easily pursuaded to like somewhere else.

Now I wanna be rich.

 

[Killishandra]

I don't think I will ever understand how the US can consider itself THE countrey of freedom in the world... I know we have more personal freedom, even with the less in economical freedom I'd still think I can live my life like I want more here than there...

You know what's funny in an odd way... I used to think America was the land of sexual freedom and smut etc etc... Thinking we were more "outlandish" than the rest of the world... Until I watched "EuroTrip" and they started talking about how Europe is more open sexually than the U.S.

Then I recalled hearing about how European magazines print nude photos than American versions won't, and show commercials with breasts in them, etc etc... All this stuff clicked in my head and all of a sudden I REALIZED....

America is the land of prudes!!

 

[FurryFury]

B-i-L?

Brother In Law I believe.

Fury