Yep, the government is going to fix corporate accounting.

Ishmael

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Federal government's bookkeeping needs fixing, too
Shira Kantor
Star Tribune Washington Bureau Correspondent


Published Aug 27, 2002

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Concealing debt and operating costs. Flouting court orders by shredding documents. Failing to properly track assets and
liabilities.

These misdeeds have blackened corporate America's eye and prompted criminal investigations and the wrath of Congress and President Bush.

Yet these same accounting failures and sleights of hand have for years been common practice in the federal government, fiscal experts say.

"There's been a lot of sanctimonious finger-waving in Congress at corporate CEOs and much of it is hypocritical," said Pete Sepp, a spokesman for the
National Taxpayers Union, which promotes lower federal taxes and spending.

The financial statements of many federal agencies are in such dismal shape that the General Accounting Office (GAO) -- the investigative arm of Congress that audits federal accounts -- has been unable to provide an opinion on the government's finances for the past five years.

Audit not possible

Paul Posner, GAO's managing director of budget and strategic issues, said many federal agencies are unable to even prepare a financial statement to be
analyzed.

"They don't have clear knowledge and valuation of all their assets, all their property; a lot of their transactions are still not properly accounted for," Posner said. "Key [agencies] simply don't have records in sufficiently good
order for us to even audit and make an opinion."

Rep. Mark Kennedy, R-Minn., a certified public accountant, said the government is right to be holding private industry to a high standard, but that the same standard should apply to its own financial management.

"We do need to call to question and say the government should be held accountable," Kennedy said. He said federal agencies should be made to
disclose how resources are being used, what results are achieved, and the standards being used to measure those results.

Bush signed into law last month a bill requiring chief executives or chief financial officers to certify the accuracy of company finances under penalty of law. "There will not be a different ethical standard for corporate America than
the standard that applies to everyone else," he said. But the CFOs of many federal agencies repeatedly fail to articulate what resources they have or the standards they use to account for them -- and they face few, if any, penalties.

Sepp notes that despite their poor records, federal agencies typically continue to receive spending increases.

"What kind of message is that sending to agencies that refuse to clean up their act?" he said.

'Weak stepchild'

While the government has taken steps to reduce the confusion surrounding its finances -- including setting earlier deadlines for financial reports and requiring agencies to submit progress reports along with those audited statements -- progress has been slow.

"Financial management has always been kind of a weak stepchild in government," Posner said. He said a main problem has been getting agencies
to state not only their annual expenses, but their assets and liabilities as well. Without those figures, he said, it's hard to accurately measure the full cost of government programs.

"It is almost impossible for anyone other than a very sophisticated budget specialist to know what's going on in the federal budget and to read the stuff that the government puts out," said Bill Frenzel, a former U.S. representative from Minnesota and now a Brookings Institution scholar. "I think Congress is the cleverer of the two in keeping opacity in the system, but the executive
branch is pretty good, too."

The government commonly accepts liability for programs like flood insurance, but doesn't record it as a cost, further skewing its financial picture, Frenzel said.

If a corporation had a known liability and didn't put it on its books, "someone would probably be sent off to jail," he said.

Additionally, many federal agencies are fraught with waste, fraud and abuse, according to a financial management report issued by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) in May.

The report details several accounting weaknesses, including billions of dollars lost in erroneous payments, billions more lost in a sea of unaccounted transactions between departments, and a lack of clear guidelines to manage assets and liabilities.

"The government has a really poor track record," said David Williams, vice president of policy for Citizens Against Government Waste, a watchdog
group. Williams cited the more than 2,300 laptop computers misplaced by the Internal Revenue Service in recent years, as well as the Pentagon's admission that it was unable to account for several trillion dollars.

Among the worst offenders is the Defense Department, according to Posner of the GAO.

"I think we've always said that their mission is top flight; it's how they account for it and how they manage their assets and liabilities that they need to do work on," he said.

Frenzel notes, however, that the Defense Department is charged with some of the most complicated tasks. He said the most egregious failures come from the Department of Education.

Always a way

Financial experts point out that when the federal government runs out of money, it easily enough finds ways to spend more.

"Congress can do whatever it wants and it can pretty much call the various kinds of spending -- or whatever else it does -- what it feels like," Frenzel said. "It can be an emergency or not an emergency, it can be supplemental."

"And they do worse things that many of us will never be able to find out," he said.

For example, Frenzel said, Congress creates euphemisms to cloud certain processes and make it look like less money is being spent, such as calling tax increases "negative outlays."

Likewise, Congress can delay Social Security payments, shifting billions of dollars in expenses from one fiscal year to the next, he said. "They're always trying to cover up for a particular year that's in question . . . There's a lot of shifting of revenue and shifting of expenses in the federal government's books."

Even the national debt is inaccurately portrayed: If one includes the money owed to Social Security and pension trust funds, the $3.46 trillion figure
would jump by about $35 trillion.*

"We're nowhere near an honest measure here," Frenzel said.

And the effects of unfunded liabilities such as Social Security and federal pension funds are ever closer to becoming a real financial disaster issue for the American public, said Sepp of the Taxpayers Union.

"Congress is holding these hearings of tearful Enron employees who say their 401(k)'s have been wiped out," Sepp said. "Well there's an even bigger problem looming, and that's just about all of us who are under 55 who will be lucky to see a dime from Social Security."*

-------------------------------------------------

* Emphasis mine.
 
Well, since there seems to be four major powers in the world, and that's business, government, labor, and religeon, and since both government and business can't keep their books straight, maybe the should go to the Catholic Church or the Teamsters.
 
I thought government WAS the Teamsters...


Local #1134 (turn upside down, old calculator trick...)
 
Ishmael said:
Federal government's bookkeeping needs fixing, too
Shira Kantor
Star Tribune Washington Bureau Correspondent


Published Aug 27, 2002

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Concealing debt and operating costs. Flouting court orders by shredding documents. Failing to properly track assets and
liabilities.

<SNIP>


Hi Ishmael, Where do you get all this wonderful information supporting the wonders of modern American capitalism???

From this article it seems that not only Arthur Anderson's has unusual accounting procedures, but your beloved government has been practising creative accounting for decades.
 
CAREFUL Boyz!!

Sillyman said:
Well, since there seems to be four major powers in the world, and that's business, government, labor, and religeon, and since both government and business can't keep their books straight, maybe the should go to the Catholic Church or the Teamsters.

Hi Sillyman,

Experience in both the US and Oz suggests that little boys should be VERY CAREFUL when going to the Catholic Church.
 
It's easy when you're number one. Everyone buys into YOUR numbers...





[racket]







:D
 
Re: Re: Yep, the government is going to fix corporate accounting.

Don K Dyck said:


Hi Ishmael, Where do you get all this wonderful information supporting the wonders of modern American capitalism???

From this article it seems that not only Arthur Anderson's has unusual accounting procedures, but your beloved government has been practising creative accounting for decades.

Actually this has been known for quite some time. Industry is guilty of doing not much more than our governmant has been doing for years with regard to accounting practice.

What most in this country don't know is that the Social Security Trust Fund and the Government Empoyees Retirement Trust has already been spent. Congress raided the cash and left IOU's in the "lock box" back in the 80's. There is no cash in either account to speak of.

Gore's campaign rhetoric about the SS lock box was just that, rhetorical bullshit. So you lock up an empty box. Rather like closing the barn door after the horse has run away.

Ishmael
 
The social security trust fund is invested in treasury bonds. It's money the government owes to itself.
 
Sandia said:
The social security trust fund is invested in treasury bonds. It's money the government owes to itself.

Like I said, IOU's replaced the cash.

Ishmael
 
Yes. Treasury bonds are the best place for the surplus, though. It'd be silly for the government to try to keep all that money in banks.
 
Sandia said:
Yes. Treasury bonds are the best place for the surplus, though. It'd be silly for the government to try to keep all that money in banks.

Really? Why is that?

Banks PAY interest. The treasury notes are paid from taxes. So, the American people are paying taxes to repay money spent from taxes already collected. Yep, makes sense to me. :rolleyes:

Ishmael
 
Ishmael said:


Really? Why is that?

Banks PAY interest. The treasury notes are paid from taxes. So, the American people are paying taxes to repay money spent from taxes already collected. Yep, makes sense to me. :rolleyes:

Ishmael

If the government put the suplus money in banks, the banks would pay less interest than the treasury notes and the government would have to borrow more money from the public make up the difference.
 
Ishmael et al.

There is an interesting field of thought in national level economics (not my field). It says that a successful capitalist economy requires that a stable government function with a manageable deficit. The deficit requires the issuance of government secured bonds, which in turn provides a secure investment vehicle to balance the equity markets.

In other words, when stock prices go down, there needs to be somewhere, other than real estate and precious metals, where investors can put money with a secure return. The bond market “balances” the equity market.

The problem, as I see it, is that congress learned many years ago that borrowing from the future is easy and the public is generally too stupid to understand the long term cost. A poll conducted a few years ago showed that more than half the U.S. population was unaware that the money for government checks (welfare, SSI, Social Security etc.) comes from taxes collected from citizens. They thought the government could create its own money.

Just a thought or two to add to the discussion.
 
My understanding is it's impossible at a societal level to "save" for the future - in other words, the products retirees consume will have to be produced... the food, clothing, and services will have to be made at the time they're wanted.

There's no way to stash all that stuff in a big vault somewhere so it'll be waiting for the boomers when they retire.
 
Ishmael said:


Really? Why is that?

Banks PAY interest. The treasury notes are paid from taxes. So, the American people are paying taxes to repay money spent from taxes already collected. Yep, makes sense to me. :rolleyes:

Ishmael
LOL:D You are right on the money about this one...Incredible isnt it
 
Originally posted by Ishmael
Really? Why is that?

Banks PAY interest. The treasury notes are paid from taxes. So, the American people are paying taxes to repay money spent from taxes already collected. Yep, makes sense to me. :rolleyes:

Ishmael
Give it up, Ish. You'll never get that point across here I think. Try explaining to someone the principle of borrowing money from yourself and charging yourself interest. First, they must understand the source or origin of the wealth (money) that is required to pay the interest on the loan. And if he thinks the government is borrowing money from the people, the task is totally hopeless.
Originally posted by Texan
There is an interesting field of thought in national level economics (not my field). It says that a successful capitalist economy requires that a stable government function with a manageable deficit. The deficit requires the issuance of government secured bonds, which in turn provides a secure investment vehicle to balance the equity markets. . .
This is another of the myths perpetrated by the statists. If one has a decent understanding of economics, it becomes clear that the ideal government is the one that does the least, has the least impact on society (and hence the economy) and is least damaging. Government is a liability economically. The greater that liability, the more detrimental government is to an economy.

I do NOT advocate a total absence of government. That would be to endorse chaos or anarchy and that is virtually as bad as a totalitarian government. Government is a necessary agent in a civilized society when it acts as the legitimate extension of the individual's right to defend his life and property. But beyond that function, government has no legitimate purview.

Remember the Declaration of Independence: ". . . that to secure these rights, governments are instituted . . ."

And if you read the Constitution, note that Congress was given NO authority to regulate, control or otherwise interfere with the economy. The power to regulate interstate commerce was specifically to curtail political bickering between states over tariffs and levies on things shipped from state to state.

A capitalist, i. e., free economy is a self-regulating, self-cleansing, self-purging system that produces the greatest benefits for the greatest numbers. When government enters the mix and interferes with the free economy, it obstructs the self-regulating, self-cleansing mechanism and leads to the debacle we see today in America's economy. And as Ish pointed out, it is ludicrous that the most irresponsible among us, i. e., politicians, are crying for accountability in corporate America when they themselves take every opportunity to evade and avoid accountability. Just look at the provisions of Campaign Finance Reform for its provisions guaranteeing politicians exemption from accountability.

. . . thesis is that, given control of a central banking system and an incontrovertible currency [a currency not backed by gold], a sovereign national government is finally free of money worries and need no longer levy taxes for the purpose of providing itself with revenue. All taxation, therefore, should be regarded from the point of view of social and economic consequences.

Beardsley Ruml, Chairman, Federal Reserve Bank of New York, 1946 (under FDR)
The following like provides some interesting insight into the need for the income tax.

Need for the Income Tax
 
The Indians are again suing the United States Government for mis-managing their trust funds...

Bet they win again!

No what does that say to the rest of us?
 
SINthysist said:
The Indians are again suing the United States Government for mis-managing their trust funds...

Bet they win again!

No what does that say to the rest of us?

It basically says that those that want the government to 'fix' everything have a great deal of misplaced trust.

Ishmael
 
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