Writing for profit

[Un-registered]

Unashamedly posting to a second thread with the same information:

I have just come across the best set of author submission guidelines I have ever read.

They are at Black Lace guidelines.

Most other publishers want much the same but they do not always express it so well.

 

[PoliteSuccubus]

Thank you

When I get better at this, I will try it!

Until then, I'm trying to pick up lose change with Readers Digist. They pay between 300-100 bucks for those little things you see at the end of storys and stuff, and you can submit on line at rd.com

 

[Sabledrake]

I agree, the Black Lace guidelines are very clear and specific. I hope to submit to them at some point in the future.

Blue Moon, on the other hand, seems to have no submission guidelines whatsoever!

Sabledrake

 

[BigTexan]

A good link

While I am excluded from "Black Lace" because of what I'm sure they hold as a genetic defect, I am male, I did find this article on the web and I think it is very good about explaining the proper manuscript format for submitting to paying publishers.

Here is the link. I hope it helps someone.

http://www.shunn.net/writing/coach/format.html

BigTexan

 

[Un-registered]

Re: A good link

While I am excluded from "Black Lace" because of what I'm sure they hold as a genetic defect, I am male.

They used to say that, but I notice it is missing from their latest "write for us" data.

I did find this article on the web and I think it is very good about explaining the proper manuscript format for submitting to paying publishers.

Here is the link. I hope it helps someone.

http://www.shunn.net/writing/coach/format.html

I read that also, but I don't believe it is as cut and dried as he makes out. My publisher, for instance, likes Acrobat as first choice, Word as second and .txt as third. Hard copy trails a long way behind.

 

[BigTexan]

Re: Re: A good link

They used to say that, but I notice it is missing from their latest "write for us" data.

It is quite clearly articulated in the link you gave us. About a third of the way down the page at the start of the second paragraph and in bold no less.

First things first. We accept submissions from female authors only, with no exceptions. We have found that, in this genre, authors tend to write better for their own gender. Besides, the fact that all our authors are guaranteed to be women is a valuable part of our marketing strategy. Black Lace has proved every bit as successful as the male-oriented erotica, which isn't that surprising, really. In publishing a series of strongly branded books aimed at women, we have gone some way to creating a new genre.

I read that also, but I don't believe it is as cut and dried as he makes out. My publisher, for instance, likes Acrobat as first choice, Word as second and .txt as third. Hard copy trails a long way behind.

More and more publishers are taking electronic submissions. Non of the ones I submit to do as of yet. Perhaps SF&F publishers are behind the times, eh?

 

[Un-registered]

Re: Re: Re: A good link

It is quite clearly articulated in the link you gave us. About a third of the way down the page at the start of the second paragraph and in bold no less.

Mea culpa. I missed that.

But how will they know, if, say, my significant other submits? Especially as that clause is illegal in the jurisdiction in which they operate?

 

[deliciously_naughty]

Re: Re: Re: Re: A good link

Mea culpa. I missed that.

But how will they know, if, say, my significant other submits? Especially as that clause is illegal in the jurisdiction in which they operate?

how is it illegal? there are plenty of magazines and such that only want/allow people of their gender/orientation/faith to submit.

 

[Un-registered]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A good link

how is it illegal? there are plenty of magazines and such that only want/allow people of their gender/orientation/faith to submit.

A male professional writer of their type of books could reasonably argue that it was restraint of trade under both the Sex Discrimination Act and the European Human Rights Act.

It doesn't matter that a group of people with some common interest or trait wish to form an association of such people. If "gender/orientation/faith " is involved in the criteria for membership or employment or use of services, then that organisation is illegal under current UK law. The only legal forms of discrimination are ageism, heightism, weightism, and politics. The only exempted organisations are the Established Church and the national security services.

 

[Ms.M]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A good link

It doesn't matter that a group of people with some common interest or trait wish to form an association of such people. If "gender/orientation/faith " is involved in the criteria for membership or employment or use of services, then that organisation is illegal under current UK law. The only legal forms of discrimination are ageism, heightism, weightism, and politics. The only exempted organisations are the Established Church and the national security services. [/B][/QUOTE]


I am probably going to regret this post....and maybe i am just a bit confused about UK law, but are you saying that in the UK. If i wanted to start, I don't know lets say a lesbian dating service..the only people i could turn away would be old/young...tall/short....fat/skinny, Tory party members,regardless off there sex...or maybe a better example would be..in the religous realm, a Catholic church would have to accept non-catholics...the same for those of the Jewish and Muslim faith..

I find this fascinating. So if the Labour party had a meeting, they could ask me for proof that I was a member of the party and if I wasn't they could bar me from the meeting, and if i went to a little town with 45 fellow pagans, we could walk into any little church and they would have to allow us membership in there
church....If i am not mistaken in the US..the laws are exactly the opposite...


I seem to have lost my virginty again, and i didn't even notice *LOL* so now i am experienced....

 

[Ms.M]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A good link

why did this post twice....

 

[BigTexan]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A good link

Like you Ms. M, I think I may regret this post.

If i am not mistaken in the US..the laws are exactly the opposite...

Not exactly opposite, but certainly different.

In America we have one party who would like to see laws like the UK and EU have passed. We have another party that believes that prejudice is only elliminated by education and social change, not by laws.

Both parties have the same goal in mind, just very different approaches to solving it. The down side to this is that neither approach is fully implemented and therefore we have had less success than we might have had going just one way or the other.

However, we do NOT have the level of prejudice seen in the eastern european, and middle eastern countries, so maybe we are making progress, eh?

My biggest gripe about organizations like "Black Lace" isn't that they choose to exclude men, but the tone they take as they do it. I believe that for "Black Lace" they are attempting to cater to the extream feminists and they are using this restriction more for marketing than anything else. They call it a "new genre'". It's not. It is the same genre' with a marketing twist.

If that was all it was then I wouldn't have a problem. But they use a tone that fairly screams out that men are inferior. I hate that kind of prejudice. Men are not inferior, neither are they superior, by virtue of gender. But as long as you have one group of people claiming either, then you will have sexism. I think that is sad. That is the problem I have with "Black Lace".

Having said that, I will also say this. They have toned down their anti-male rhetoric significantly. Almost to the point of making me reconsider their attitude. I wonder if this is not a result of reader pressure?

 

[karmadog]

The Black Lace attitude seems a little extreme to me also. It seems to me that they could simply exercise editorial control to get the kinds of stories that they believe are appealing to their readers rather than to exclude a writer based on their sex.

One of my favorite female characters in literature was written by a man. I had my (very) literate girlfriend read the book to and she agreed. (FYI, 'Dalva' by Jim Harrison)

There seems, to me, no good reason to be discrimanatory in the field of literature.

 

[jon.hayworth]

It does sound illegal doesn't it. Remember when the Labour (oops New Labour) Party had the Women candidate lists - they were successfully challenged through the courts as contravening the sex discrimination act.

I did notice that Black Lace's sister / parent publishing company the ubiquitous Mills and Boon are now publishing men. - I think in fact they have one token male writer - they made a big PR thing of it earlier this year.

And no Miss M you and your fellow Pagans have a problem because churches are exempt from the provisions of UK law - although what the Human Rights Act might say under sections relating to freedom of belief and freedom of expression is a different matter.

jon

 

[Un-registered]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A good link

... I believe that for "Black Lace" they are attempting to cater to the extream feminists and they are using this restriction more for marketing than anything else. They call it a "new genre'". It's not. It is the same genre' with a marketing twist ...

The interesting thing is that I (a mere male) have read and enjoyed many of their books. I usually buy them in railway station bookshop/newsagents and I have often seen other people buy similarly but not once have I seen a woman buy one! On that very unscientific basis I really wonder how much of their readership is female.

 

[deliciously_naughty]

The only reason I brought that up is b/c for example I went to a women's college which by definition explicitly excludes men. I also had a membership in boston at a women only health club. For me, the idea of a women's publisher doesn't seem that farfetched.

My first and only encounter with stores that stock black lace was interestingly enough a women's oriented erotica shop (grand openings in Boston).

Since I've moved I order them online my local erotica shops are a little too hardcore to have such things as books.

I do agree that their books appeal to both men and women, and that perhaps it might be short sighted to only allow female writers. However, in light of the male to female skin mags (ie who they are written for, not which sex they feature), I am glad to see a publisher trying to create a market for female erotica instead of the downplayed erotica that is the romance novel.

Texan I would actually take issue with your calling the Black Lace people and who they're discussing "extreme feminists." As both a student of the first and second wave of feminism and a member of the third wave, the more "extreme" feminists are often very anti-erotica (what they would call anti-pornography) because they argue it objectifies women(in fact most women who call themselves feminists would say that). And they would also say that by only appealing to women they are not empowering, but trying to fool women into their submissive and objectified role.
The sex-radical school of feminism (woefully a very small portion of the movement now and before) would argue that men should be able to write for Black Lace. I think the portion of feminists who would champion black lace are much smaller than the factions that either a. hate them as purveyors of porn or b. think they should open up to male writers. sorry...graduate level seminar in feminist theory plus 10 years of activism raising its head.

But to move away from their philosophy for a moment...you have to admit that they are very clear and distict in what they want. Very few publishers are that clear.

 

[TheEarl]

14) Don't attempt to indicate a character's class, dialect or region by using non-standard spellings in speech or, worse, in reported thought or ordinary narrative.

Okay, that's an interesting guideline. So if I was writing a book with a cockney as the main character, he'd have to be an elocuted cockney, cause I wouldn't be able to convey the 'special' accent in his speech?

I actually resent the implication that just because I am a man, my stories are somehow inferior to a woman's. My stories may not be perfectly plotted or as good as some, but I am technically a very good writer and at times I can make great writing. More than that, I may not be the best, but I am a hell of a lot better than some of the females on here, who would be considered 'worthy' to submit to Black Lace just because of their chromosomes. [/rant]

It's technically not illegal to disbar someone from entering in the UK, as long as you have a good reason. Sex is not one, nor is race or religion. Protestants can go to a Catholic church if they want; they can't be barred. If they caused a disturbance then they could be removed. I could be barred from Black Lace for being bad, but if it was an English company, I could sue them for sexual discrimination. I probably still could, but the chances of success would be lower.

The Earl