Writing as a Craft

[Seattle Zack]

This morning, while waiting for some e-mail, I browsed through the "Story Ideas" section and it reminded me of an experience I'd had at my local watering hole a few weeks ago.

I was drinking Red Hook and chatting with a winsome wench who also had an interest in writing, specifically erotic writing. There was an obnoxious boor on the other side of me who kept trying to cockblock, interjecting himself into our conversations. When he overheard that I was a writer, he said, "Dude! We should get together! I have so many ideas for books!"

The not-yet-lubricated-enough young lass had excused herself to go to the bathroom and, against my better judgement, I asked this moron what, exactly, was the literary masterpiece he had in mind.

"It's about this group of cops, right? And they rip off drug dealers!"

Smelling bestseller list or at least a movie deal, I asked him to expound further. Who are the characters? What are their conflicts? What's the resolution? What's the story arc?

"I don't know," he said, a confused look on his face. "You're the writer ... can't you come up with that stuff?"

Ah, yes. Which brings me to my gripe. I've had this conversation before, dozens of times. Why is it generally assumed by non-writers that writing is, in itself, a talentless exercise? Why isn't the exercise of writing more accepted as a craft? For example, I would never suggest to an architect, "I've got a great idea for a building, if someone would just design it."

We revere craftsmen in our society -- artists, musicians, film directors, woodworkers, sculptors. Yet, the perception seems to be that the "idea" is the essential part of writing. I know a lot of writers, and I don't know one capable of creating complex characters, intricately developed plots, and compelling, realistic dialogue who sits at home saying "I wish I had an idea to write about!"

The magnum opus doesn't spring, full-blown, from an idea, no matter how good. When I write, I struggle over every word and punctuation mark. I re-write the same damn paragraph six times to create the mental picture I have in my head. I have thousands of ideas, and not enough talent, time, or effort to bring them to fruition.

Technical proficiency is one thing, but good writers are true artists in their use of words. The great writers throughout history didn't just have good ideas -- they had a gift for communication that is enviably wonderous to behold.

I do a lot of technical writing, which basically involves translating geek into English. One of the things I get paid to do is provide "content" for websites. Even the term is somewhat disparaging. It's as if the words on the screen are the least important part. Indeed, in this ultra-formatted flashing-icon triple-linked society, perhaps they are.

Just my gripe for the day.

--Zack

 

[gauchecritic]

And a very good gripe it is.

Although I have yet to 'craft' a story in that sense (the only time I agonise is when my aphasia hits and I have to ask anyone available "what is that word that means...") I'm just really happy that no one in my RL knows I write (at all, let alone for Lit.) otherwise I can well imagine being inundated with "great ideas". I have enough requests for writing 'proper' letters for people.

Very much like getting feedback that enquires "Why didn't she just tell him to get his act together?" or "He should have made her pregnant that would be great"

Do they not actually read the story? If that was supposed to happen it probably would have, but that isn't what the story was about.

Despair would be a luxury at those times.

Gauche

 

[Guest]

Hey Seattle. I do know what you mean but I think the environs makes a difference (e.g., a bar, a sports arena). For some decades now I've only had people appreciate the fact that I write; I've never had anyone speak to me like the boor above. I believe it's because most of my family, ex-in-laws, friends, friends-of-friends, work mates, etc., are literate, intelligent and or artistic types.

Perhaps it's also due to the city I live in (I recently mentioned on a thread that a salesclerk at Macy's began a conversation with me on Nabokov). Also, for the past 16 years I have worked at a university.

If someone is not well educated or read, then writing is going to be like magic or an athletic skill to them. I do not mean to be cruel but I suggest ignoring such comments, even rudely.

regards, Perdita

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Ah, yes. Which brings me to my gripe. I've had this conversation before, dozens of times. Why is it generally assumed by non-writers that writing is, in itself, a talentless exercise? Why isn't the exercise of writing more accepted as a craft? For example, I would never suggest to an architect, "I've got a great idea for a building, if someone would just design it."

Could you please make copies of this and mail them to all my past, present, and future clients? Most people don't seem to be able to grasp that concept...

 

[sweetnpetite]

I get a lot of PM's and emails that say, "I have a great idea, but I dont' know if I could write it." I would say, "Dude, if you can't write it no one can."

Don't take it so much as an insult, if the guy thought it was easy, I'm sure he would have written the book himself to impress the chicks. (He does seem to be that kind of guy.) I think more often than not, people are just intimidated by the writing part of writing. They don't neccesarily think that it happens by magic, but they think you must truly be a powerful wizard to be able to cast a spell with your words.

(PLus they remember diagraming sentences in 7th grade English and figure you must be a genious too.)

 

[Couture]

Well, as for me, I'm always on the lookout for story ideas. Now, most of the ideas are pretty stupid. Like, "How about writing a story about me, my name is Paul, and about my girlfriend Sue."

To these people I say, "Hey dummy, find any porn story out there and do a find and replace on the names." Sheesh . . . fucking morons.

Now, then there are people who give actual ideas. And hey, after 80 stories and chapters, I don't mind a bit. I don't really think of them as ideas, they are more like inspirations. Usually, the actual story is much different than the original idea.

So, are ideas stories? No. Are people that give you ideas aware of how much editing and work is involved in transforming the idea into something people want to read? No. But, who cares? I find them sometimes inspiring.

 

[KillerMuffin]

I have thousands of ideas, and not enough talent, time, or effort to bring them to fruition.

For a minute there I thought this said:

I have thousands of ideas, and not enough talent, time, or effort to bring them to futon.

I am such a weirdo.

I don't talk about writing with non-writers very much. The few times I do, I've always regretted it. When they ask what I do for a living, I'm "retired".

What I dislike is the idea a lot of non-writers get that the idea is priceless and rare as a snaggletoothed chicken. They do the whole, "I'll give you my idea, you write it, we'll split the profits 50/50 business." Right. I'll do hundreds if not thousands of hours of intensive labor and give you half of whatever I get paid for it in exchange for your thirty seconds of common-place inspiration. "You" is in general, not at anyone specifc.

I think that non-writers don't understand writing in the same way that non-nuclear physists don't understand nuclear physics. We can get the basic mechanics, but we can't see the atoms with our eyes closed.

 

[Jenny _S]

That's so true, KillerMuffin,

I don't call myself a writer at all. I write tripe. Look at my sig line. And writing is not how I make my living.

I've completely given up talking to people about story ideas except on Lit because they are all the same.

"I meet this beautiful nymphomaniac and she fucks my brains out. The End." Duhhhh. Now there's an original story everyone wants to write.

And they actually think they will hand you this piece of shit and you'll go back, sit in front of youf computer and pound it out in about 15 minutes and they will share in a Pulitzer Prize for Literature.

 

[Quasimodem]

. . . "Dude! We should get together! I have so many ideas for books!"... --Zack

I NEVER tell anybody that I am a writer.

I say "I'm in TV software assembly," and so far, nobody has bothered me further.

 

[destinie21]

people are always out to whore you and pimp out your talent. It's fashion week here in the big apple and I'm a little on edge so forgive mt inherent bitchiness.

See I can make clothes from the design to the model. People are forever asking me to make them a little something as if a haute couture piece could just be whipped together. People tend to think if you're good at something that makes you some kind of time altering magical elf who can produce things overnight/

 

[OT]

effortless talent

Things done really well appear effortless.

It's a curse.

 

[BlackSnake]

I write n-tier applications as a career choice and I get the same/simular things. "Can it do this...is it possible for it to do that...can you make it do my dishes" Gosh-dang! I try to make the projects a work of art, something that reflects not only my skill, but who I am. Sometimes I fear going on a walk-about, because some director will recognize me and pitch their project idea that serves their agenda. Just once, I would like to design and develop one of the many project ideas I have myself.

gripe session....

 

[Jenny _S]

I write n-tier applications as a career choice and I get the same/simular things. "Can it do this...is it possible for it to do that...can you make it do my dishes" Gosh-dang! I try to make the projects a work of art, something that reflects not only my skill, but who I am. Sometimes I fear going on a walk-about, because some director will recognize me and pitch their project idea that serves their agenda. Just once, I would like to design and develop one of the many project ideas I have myself.

gripe session....

Hiya, Snakeeeee

Gripe all you want

 

[BlackSnake]

Hiya, Snakeeeee

Gripe all you want

Hey sweetie

I feel Zack. I bitch about them to my director and he chuckles. He's about to retire in Jan.; an old COBOL programmer. He tells me that there's nothing constant but change.

They don't realize that change causes project failure (delay in deployment).

 

[ffreak]

Ah, yes, but without the changes, they wouldn't need us.

Two points on the thread subject:
1) many published writers have gotten some of their best ideas by mis-hearing something.
2) best response to where do you get your ideas: a mailbox in ____ (somewhere 3000 miles away) - and the variation for folks who want to give the idea to the writer and then 'share' the big bucks - the same address.

-FF (please send all your ideas to 219 West 91st Avenue
Anchorage, AK 99503)

ps. don't ask me why a bakery sounded like a good place for half-baked ideas.

pps. if this is a real address, please forward all such requests to 1929 Moonui Street Honolulu, HI 96817.

ppps. No they're not real addresses.

 

[Seattle Zack]

I did one contract for a dot-com here in Seattle, an online help site. It was an absolute nightmare, some thirty or forty pages of text. Three weeks in, told the manager I should have the "content" done by Friday (ahead of schedule) and he said, "Oh, yeah, we had a brainstorming meeting about that yesterday. We decided to reformat the whole thing, came up with a bunch of new categories. Didn't anyone tell you about the meeting?"

Oops. Forgot to invite the writer.

Got my contract extended by a month though.

--Zack (who can program in COBOL)

P.S. And yes, Perdita, perhaps I hang out in too many bars. Most of my friends with at least an eight grade education don't react that way.

 

[Guest]

P.S. And yes, Perdita, perhaps I hang out in too many bars. Most of my friends with at least an eight grade education don't react that way.

Zack, I was not implying that at all, just used your example to make my point. Did not mean anything personal.

Perdita

 

[TheEarl]

I know a lot of writers, and I don't know one capable of creating complex characters, intricately developed plots, and compelling, realistic dialogue who sits at home saying "I wish I had an idea to write about!"

I will actually just be a little pedantic and say that I am a fairly good writer, but I struggle majorly for ideas.

No-one I know ever seems to have a 'brilliant' idea for a story when I tell them that I'm a writer (although if they knew what kind... ). Maybe all my friends are just uncreative.

The Earl

 

[Icingsugar]

When I write, I struggle over every word and punctuation mark. I re-write the same damn paragraph six times to create the mental picture I have in my head.

Thank you! Sometimes it feels like I am alone in that particular struggle. The ideas and stories burning in my head aching to be told are intuitional ephphanies from one side of the brain. A creative or entertaining line in the story can be a product of sheer inspitation too. But the main part of putting shit together is nothing but hard, tedious work dedicated to the other half of the brain. And I hate it, since the two halves don't really like each other...

Conversation metween my two brain-halves:
"Dude, don't forget to put in the part in the end where he feels kinda bummed out."

"Shut up, shut uuup! I'm still on the prolouge, dammit! And can't you give me a better desctription than Bummed Out?"

"Naah, that's your job."

"Curl up and die, whydontcha?"

"Fun-spoiler."

"Hippie."

"Fuck you."

"Fuck you too."

Writing is an art, and a skill, and a tedious craft, and you can't have one without the other, or nothing good will come out. When pepole come up to me and tell me to put words to their ideas, I kindly tell them to pay me in heaps, of to get out of my face. Writing is a pain in the rear-end enogh as it is. I'm NOT wasting my struggle with the craft to do the dirty work for other pepole.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Writing and reading are so ubiquitous that most people have no idea of the tecnical difficulty involved in writing decent, readable prose. They assume that writing is more or less recorded speech, and they figure that they can talk as well as anyone. Their stories always crack up the guys at the office, so they figure it should be easy to turn their experiences into good stories that will crack up the reading public as well.

Maybe they actually sit down and try to write and find out it isn't that easy. So they think, well, all they need is someone who knows the 'tricks' to kind of whip their efforts into shape.

That's been my experience.


---dr.M.

 

[Guest]

Thank you! Sometimes it feels like I am alone in that particular struggle.

Sugar, you are not alone. I loved the dialogue.

smiling, Perdita

 

[Jenny _S]

As I was reading the Story Ideas forum last night I was thinking about this thread. Many of the story ideas come from folks who never submitt stories. Each of their threads begin the same way with something like "I'm not a writer, but..."

That term struck me odd. Anyone who regularly visits this site and who puts his/her mind to it can produce some publishable on Lit. So it occurs to me there is another element. I think that element may be Exposure. The very idea of opening the inner workings of your mind to the ridicule of strangers is an awesome task, maybe as much so as the actual writing.

 

[destinie21]

As I was reading the Story Ideas forum last night I was thinking about this thread. Many of the story ideas come from folks who never submitt stories. Each of their threads begin the same way with something like "I'm not a writer, but..."

That term struck me odd. Anyone who regularly visits this site and who puts his/her mind to it can produce some publishable on Lit. So it occurs to me there is another element. I think that element may be Exposure. The very idea of opening the inner workings of your mind to the ridicule of strangers is an awesome task, maybe as much so as the actual writing.

True enough but I find it a damn sight easier to open myself to ridicule of strangers than the odium of people I know. Also I have to say in regards to the Story idea bored(not a typo) it's just the same ideas re-hashed every few weeks/months it's the writer who actually breathes life into the story. Theirs probably 100's of teacher / student stories but the ones I've written have a certain style super imposed on them just because I am the writer. Such is the case with all stories. Of course this is all just my worthless two cents so take it with a grain.

 

[ffreak]

But in the right forum your two-cents are worth a whole lot more than many of the non-writers who try to impress their inexpressable ideas and opinions upon us.

I'd say your two-cents are quite collectable in my book.

-FF (I'd always have them sitting out where everyone can see)

 

[sweetnpetite]

True enough but I find it a damn sight easier to open myself to ridicule of strangers than the odium of people I know. Also I have to say in regards to the Story idea bored(not a typo) it's just the same ideas re-hashed every few weeks/months it's the writer who actually breathes life into the story. Theirs probably 100's of teacher / student stories but the ones I've written have a certain style super imposed on them just because I am the writer. Such is the case with all stories. Of course this is all just my worthless two cents so take it with a grain.

I went there, and found just what you said, lots of the same old story ideas. So one day, I just posted a bunch, as bizare or different as I could think of -hoping to get the juices flowing. I think a lot of people thought they where stories *I* was trying to write. I just wanted to push the board out of the rut it seemed to be in. I think those threads died out fairly quickly. Oh well...