Writing and mise-en-scene

[CharleyH]

We have talked of setting before, however, how much emphasis do you put on descriptions of the space in which two characters interact and have sex, either descriptively or metaphorically.

I come from a 'film' background, and when I write a scene, and describe a room or a place, I try always to have the "space" reflect the character, either their personality, or their inner selves. Sometimes, when meticulous, I even describe a scene as if in a frame.

How 'bout you? How important are the little details, like a poster on the wall, to you?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

5:50 AM. The relentless buzz and the fluorescent blue pulse of the alarm clock's display flooded the room, rapidly flashing, struggling to keep in time with his heartbeat.

Alex's eyes shot open and found Lana Turner, deadly and unassailable, staring right back into him from her A1-sized clip-framed black-and-white poster of "The Postman Always Rings Twice".

Accelerated heart rate. Probable causes include fever; hyperstimulation of cardiac sympathetic nerves; abnormally high level of thyroid hormones and adrenaline; drug abuse, including epinephrine, ephedrine, atropine, digoxin; a weak heart.

Lana gazed coldly over Alex's motionless frame for the long time that took him to fully awake to the day's new reality. His eyes moved down her body and then shifted to the other poster on that wall, where Rita Hayworth remained glowing and freeze-framed as Gilda.

He adjusted his semi-rigid cock with his right hand, studying her profiled figure, and briefly considered conjuring up a fantasy about her, about Lana, or even about the two of them lezzing it up.

Rita wanted it. He could tell.

It's important.

 

[TheEarl]

Each scene gets about one paragraph near the beginning of that section from me. If it's an important scene, then it may get two.

Everything I talk about in terms of scenery is to do with my characters. Few details are mentioned for the hell of it; they are always telling you something about the characters, whether it's what they are noticing or what they choose to surround themselves with.

The opening scene of my novel is in a ballroom of a hotel. Anyone can imagine a ballroom. It's the fact that my main character sneers at the superfluous banner, which tells everyone in the room what party they're at, despite the fact that they all already know, that's important.

The Earl

 

[CharleyH]

It's important.

Oh, you are DEEP and intense.

 

[impressive]

Oh, you are DEEP and intense.

And intensely deep and deeply intense.

 

[CharleyH]

And intensely deep and deeply intense.

SCRATCHING CHIN. Do you REALLY want me to comment

 

[cloudy]

SCRATCHING CHIN. Do you REALLY want me to comment

Of course she does. We all do.

 

[elsol]

I write in the first person through narrators that are usually supremely self-contained.

When they bother to notice the 'scene', the reader should try to figure out WHY the narrator is suddenly pushing outwards rather than drawing inwards.

I guess when I begin to write in the third person, it will matter more.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[Weird Harold]

How 'bout you? How important are the little details, like a poster on the wall, to you?

It's all about relevance for me -- the little details have to have ome relevance to the situation or mood before I spend much time on them.

As TheEarl points out, most readers can picture a generic ballroom, so only details that make a particular ballroom distinctive are relevant to the story or setting. If something stands out enough or is relevant enough thenit gets described.

To use your poster example, I would sometimes mention a poster -- "a typical girl's room with a poster of some boy-band and stuffed toys on nearly every level surface (and few vertical surfaces)" -- but unless sit was relevant to the story, I would never bother to specify which boy-band or decribe any of the stuffed animals.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, in one of my unfinished stories, there is a large print of a photograph in a bedroom that gets described in detail, downto the lighting around it, because it is a key set-up to later events -- duplicating the technique with a sexual spin to it.

 

[rgraham666]

It depends.

In some stories I describe a character's room or place of residence, or the area the action takes place in, in fair detail. In others, not at all.

I guess it depends on what I think will work and what is significant to the story. can't explain any more than that.

 

[cloudy]

It depends.

In some stories I describe a character's room or place of residence, or the area the action takes place in, in fair detail. In others, not at all.

I guess it depends on what I think will work and what is significant to the story. can't explain any more than that.

I'm with Rob.

Sometimes it's important, sometimes it isn't. In a story I'm working on right now, I think the only description of a setting I've given yet is that the room they were in was small.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Why are you putting in detail? What do you want me to know wbout this space? That it's raining out? That she's a sloppy housekeeper? That he's poor and has furniture from salvation army?

If you describe the brand of the clock radio, I'm going to think that's important and I'm going to look for meaning in it. If you're telling me the lights are bright, that's going to create a certain emotional tone for what follows. The sex (or whatever they're doing) is going to be bright and unromantic. If we can see the moon through the window and shadows on the floor, then the sex is going to be mysterious and romantic.

Don't get bogged down in details if you don't need them, unless you want the room to be the star of the story.

 

[scheherazade_79]

Details like that are only unimportant if they're meaningless. I don't come from a film background, but one of my most influential writers is Thomas Hardy. He has loads and loads of description in his work, but hidden amongst those descriptions are unexpected little easter eggs for the more astute reader - clues as to where he's going next with the story, and how it might turn out.

It works because you get the perfect marriage of a fucking good story with some technical wizardry.

I actually dislike stories that don't get the most out of descriptions. It's almost like watching a play acted out in a blank white space.

 

[TheEarl]

I actually dislike stories that don't get the most out of descriptions. It's almost like watching a play acted out in a blank white space.

I disagree. Unless the description tells you something about the story, or about the characters, then I think it's superfluous. To my mind, if a writer's describing a piece of scenery, he/she should be doing it for a reason.

The Earl

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I actually agree with both. A description that serves no purpose in the story is superfluous, but stories that can find no purpose for descriptions are just flat.

 

[CharleyH]

It's all about relevance for me -- the little details have to have ome relevance to the situation or mood before I spend much time on them.

As TheEarl points out, most readers can picture a generic ballroom, so only details that make a particular ballroom distinctive are relevant to the story or setting. If something stands out enough or is relevant enough thenit gets described.

To use your poster example, I would sometimes mention a poster -- "a typical girl's room with a poster of some boy-band and stuffed toys on nearly every level surface (and few vertical surfaces)" -- but unless sit was relevant to the story, I would never bother to specify which boy-band or decribe any of the stuffed animals.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, in one of my unfinished stories, there is a large print of a photograph in a bedroom that gets described in detail, downto the lighting around it, because it is a key set-up to later events -- duplicating the technique with a sexual spin to it.

Do you use metaphor in your sex stories?

 

[CharleyH]

I'm with Rob.

Sometimes it's important, sometimes it isn't. In a story I'm working on right now, I think the only description of a setting I've given yet is that the room they were in was small.

What is significant and why do you put more emphasis on one thing more than another?

 

[CharleyH]

Why are you putting in detail? What do you want me to know wbout this space? That it's raining out? That she's a sloppy housekeeper? That he's poor and has furniture from salvation army?

If you describe the brand of the clock radio, I'm going to think that's important and I'm going to look for meaning in it. If you're telling me the lights are bright, that's going to create a certain emotional tone for what follows. The sex (or whatever they're doing) is going to be bright and unromantic. If we can see the moon through the window and shadows on the floor, then the sex is going to be mysterious and romantic.

Don't get bogged down in details if you don't need them, unless you want the room to be the star of the story.

Perfect answer for mood set up, but do you use setting details for deeper psyche factors- perhaps even secondary themes?

 

[CharleyH]

I disagree. Unless the description tells you something about the story, or about the characters, then I think it's superfluous. To my mind, if a writer's describing a piece of scenery, he/she should be doing it for a reason.

The Earl

I am not sure, but I do believe she was saying that. What I loved about Hardy's Tess of the D'Urbervilles (sp) was the richness of detail completely significant to both character and theme. Roman Polanski's "Tess" is probably THE best novel to film translation, but he left out the birds, which was significant in memory.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Perfect answer for mood set up, but do you use setting details for deeper psyche factors- perhaps even secondary themes?

I let my subconscious take care of all that. I get a big kick going through my stories and seeing where I have unintended symbolism that my subconscious supplied me with.

e.g. In a recent story I had a girl being kind of extorted into having sex with a guy. The scene where he compels her to agree is set in the lobby of an old European Hotel, and as soon as she realizes she has no choice, I have this big old open cage-elevator arrive from above. As soon as I'd written that, I knew it was a symbol of her doom, although I'd never consciously thought of it in those terms. It just seemed right atmospherically.

The room he takes her to overlooks both a harbor and an enclosed courtyard with a garden. Later on I realized what I was trying to do was find a setting where her public face was going to collide with her private desires, hence the two views from the room. The door closes behind her with a loud click. Both the room and the door are symbols, but I never thought of them as symbols. I thought of them as details in the picture I was describing, but they both give richness and resonance to the scene.

I could have just as easily taken the time to describe the furniture in that room, but that had no symbolic value. It was a hotel room and the furniture said nothing about either of them, so why bother? What difference does it make whether it's a full size or queen size bed or whether there's a desk in the room? None, so I didn't bother.

 

[matriarch]

From 'Rhapsody'............

" The curtains are drawn against the night. The log fire is burning cosily in a brick fireplace. The sofa is pulled up close to the fire, the room is not dark, but glows from the light of the fire and a few candles, sending flickering shadows into the corners of the room, creating a mood of mystery and romance. We have Bach playing in the background, the cd player loaded with our two favourite pieces. For me, the double violin concerto, for you the Brandenburg. Not intrusive, just soft enough to lend ambience to the room.

The sofa is old and welcoming, covered with soft throws in rust and green, my favourite autumn shades which blend with the shadows and lighting in the room. On the small mahogany table beside the sofa stands a goblet of brandy, partly consumed. A few warming mouthfuls, enough to relax not inebriate. Beside the goblet a pile of books - close inspection will show them to be poetry - Alice Meynell, Tennyson, Elizabeth Browning, and, of course, Shakespeare. I had been reading them whilst waiting for you.

I am sitting quietly, comfortably in one corner of the sofa, facing the fire, reading, occasionally lowering the book to gaze into the fire, my face showing nothing, the depth of my thoughts evident from the unfocussed set of my gaze. A sound breaks my reverie, and my head turns to the sound, my face lighting up with intense pleasure as you enter the room and cross to me."

You tell me.

 

[CharleyH]

" The curtains are drawn against the night. The log fire is burning cosily in a brick fireplace. The sofa is pulled up close to the fire, the room is not dark, but glows from the light of the fire and a few candles, sending flickering shadows into the corners of the room, creating a mood of mystery and romance. We have Bach playing in the background, the cd player loaded with our two favourite pieces. For me, the double violin concerto, for you the Brandenburg. Not intrusive, just soft enough to lend ambience to the room.

The sofa is old and welcoming, covered with soft throws in rust and green, my favourite autumn shades which blend with the shadows and lighting in the room. On the small mahogany table beside the sofa stands a goblet of brandy, partly consumed. A few warming mouthfuls, enough to relax not inebriate. Beside the goblet a pile of books - close inspection will show them to be poetry - Alice Meynell, Tennyson, Elizabeth Browning, and, of course, Shakespeare. I had been reading them whilst waiting for you.

I am sitting quietly, comfortably in one corner of the sofa, facing the fire, reading, occasionally lowering the book to gaze into the fire, my face showing nothing, the depth of my thoughts evident from the unfocussed set of my gaze. A sound breaks my reverie, and my head turns to the sound, my face lighting up with intense pleasure as you enter the room and cross to me."

You tell me.

SHAMELESS PROMO!

I will answer thoroughly tomorrow, to you and doc. (I am burnt out right now )

 

[Weird Harold]

Do you use metaphor in your sex stories?

Probably, when it's the right literary device for the situation.

But then I use similies, allusions, metaphors, and all of the other literary devices without concerning myself a great deal about which is named what.

I use whatever is necessary to focus a reader's attention on what I want them to pay attention to and/or guide mood and expectations in the directions I want them to go.

Lavish descriptions and profuse detail about the settings are the hallmark of writers lil JRR Tolkien. Fans praise the amount of detail he writes about the settings. Critics complain that the amount of detail detracts from the story -- I happen to be in the latter group; I've always thought that about half of Tolkien's descriptive prose could be deleted and the story would improve drastically. I've never understood his need to expend a couple thousand words describing a single valley the characters just pass through uneventfully in less than a day.

Robert Jordan has a similar tendency to describe some things in excessive detail -- even his hardcore fans tend to deride page-long descriptions of a character's dress; especially when it's the dress she's taking off to change into another he spends a page describing while maintaining his G rating by avoiding a description of what's under the dress.

I occasionally use detailed descriptions or other "purple prose" but only when the story demands it; I don't write "purple prose" simply because I can.

 

[variable Xy]

i put something here earlier by mistake thinking this was another thread, but after reading the last posts, i see i can add something (my thoughts) to the topic. setting is important in each scene. it allows you to bring a richer image so that a reader feels like they are apart of the space where your characters interact rather than being 'just' a bystander.

i think, charley that your film background would be very useful in writing some fabulous scenes. i've only read your poetry and they all have such vivid voice. now, i'll catch one of your stories sometime as well.