Writerly: Touchy Subjects

[slyc_willie]

Have you ever written a story that you knew would rub some people the wrong way? Granted, for every story on Lit, there is probably at least one person who will take offense.

I have a story in the works that deals with infidelity. It's not the main theme of the story, but it is a major component, and a source of constant consternation for my heroine. She has a good relationship with her husband, but he is disabled, and Amy (my main character) finds herself having to make sacrifices in order to pay their bills. Out of desperation, she begins making Internet porn videos.

If the story was just about a young woman slowly being seduced into the amateur porn biz, it would probably be arousing enough. But for some reason, I find the inclusion of infidelity very compelling. It's the most 'attractive' aspect of the story, I feel, giving it a little extra 'oomph.'

But I wonder why that is. I know that, when readers read this story, quite a few are going to be shocked and will probably vilify the heroine. Others will be turned on by the illicit nature of her doings. But then, one of the appeals of writing is to get a rise out of your audience, to bring out their emotions, whether good or bad.

Right?

 

[rgraham666]

I wrote one, no longer on Lit, that I hoped would rub people the wrong way. It could have been read as very racist. I expected to be lambasted for it. Or praised by people I'd rather not be praised by.

Not a peep.

Although someone who reviewed it in the anthology that story is now in said it 'messed with their head' and declared it 'politically incorrect to say the least'.

So I'm pleased.

 

[slyc_willie]

I wrote one, no longer on Lit, that I hoped would rub people the wrong way. It could have been read as very racist. I expected to be lambasted for it. Or praised by people I'd rather not be praised by.

Not a peep.

Although someone who reviewed it in the anthology that story is now in said it 'messed with their head' and declared it 'politically incorrect to say the least'.

So I'm pleased.

It's not that a necessarily want to rub people the wrong way. Maybe I just want them to cringe and feel turned on at the same time.

 

[3113]

It's not that a necessarily want to rub people the wrong way. Maybe I just want them to cringe and feel turned on at the same time.

It depends on where you post it. Post it in the Romance section and you WILL have people cringing...but likely being turned off very quickly. Put it in the Loving Wives section and they'll be very turned on, but won't cringe...infidelity is what they read about all the time, right? Put it in erotic couplings or exhibitionism and who knows what you'll get.

I guess that what I'm saying is that you shouldn't write a story wanting anything in particular from readers. It's never a good way to write a story because getting any particular reaction only takes placing it in the right venue. Write the story in whatever way is required to make it the best story you can make it. Then post it where it belongs and let the chips fall where they may. You may get that reaction or not, but what you will get, if it's a good story, is the right reaction whatever that may be.

 

[slyc_willie]

It depends on where you post it. Post it in the Romance section and you WILL have people cringing...but likely being turned off very quickly. Put it in the Loving Wives section and they'll be very turned on, but won't cringe...infidelity is what they read about all the time, right? Put it in erotic couplings or exhibitionism and who knows what you'll get.

I guess that what I'm saying is that you shouldn't write a story wanting anything in particular from readers. It's never a good way to write a story because getting any particular reaction only takes placing it in the right venue. Write the story in whatever way is required to make it the best story you can make it. Then post it where it belongs and let the chips fall where they may. You may get that reaction or not, but what you will get, if it's a good story, is the right reaction whatever that may be.

Definitely not LW, since the relationship between Amy and her husband, while important and pivotal, is not the main thrust of the story.

My first post may have been unclear. I didn't start off writing the story with the intent of wanting anything specific from the readers. Not until I was about twenty pages into it -- and with the input from my Lady -- did it dawn on me that the story would be upsetting to some. Especially with the husband being invalid. It was then that I began thinking about the reaction this story will get, and why the idea of Amy cheating on her husband seems, in a strange way, attractive to me. Without that aspect, this would be just a stroke story.

Hmm. Maybe that's it.

 

[Singularity]

Infidelities and Non-Consent

I've found that ANYTHING that includes an unfaithful wife, no matter what the story category and no matter how inattentive or otherwise unlikable the husband might be, attracts moral outrage from a subset of readers. Of course, I have yet to see one that wants to take a bite out the author's hide for a philandering male. But that's pretty much expected, and not really news to most writers here.

The one I was surprised about was a BDSM/Non-consent story which I submitted in Non-consent (Debt of Dishonor). I got more than a few reactionary comments that said that the fact that I used blackmail as the reason for the 'reluctant' consent on the part of the wife (with the husband's knowledge) ruined it for them. I'm not sure if I was guilty of 'false advertising' being in that category, or whether it was really distasteful to use blackmail in the way I did. I think I also hit some hot-buttons because the married couple had small children, and the nanny was part of the blackmail plot (though there was nothing that even hinted at anything involving the kids). I suppose married people with families aren't supposed to get their hands dirty with this kind of stuff.

I also think that any story that doesn't have a (category-appropriate) 'happy' ending risks a down-vote and an unhappy customer. But I agree, that including a plotline that adds depth and tension to the story can enrich it, as long as it is not gratuitously provocative or abhorent. It all depends on which group of readers you're writing for, and how badly you value the vote-scores.


Sin.

 

[slyc_willie]

I've found that ANYTHING that includes an unfaithful wife, no matter what the story category and no matter how inattentive or otherwise unlikable the husband might be, attracts moral outrage from a subset of readers. Of course, I have yet to see one that wants to take a bite out the author's hide for a philandering male. But that's pretty much expected, and not really news to most writers here.

The one I was surprised about was a BDSM/Non-consent story which I submitted in Non-consent (Debt of Dishonor). I got more than a few reactionary comments that said that the fact that I used blackmail as the reason for the 'reluctant' consent on the part of the wife (with the husband's knowledge) ruined it for them. I'm not sure if I was guilty of 'false advertising' being in that category, or whether it was really distasteful to use blackmail in the way I did. I think I also hit some hot-buttons because the married couple had small children, and the nanny was part of the blackmail plot (though there was nothing that even hinted at anything involving the kids). I suppose married people with families aren't supposed to get their hands dirty with this kind of stuff.

I also think that any story that doesn't have a (category-appropriate) 'happy' ending risks a down-vote and an unhappy customer. But I agree, that including a plotline that adds depth and tension to the story can enrich it, as long as it is not gratuitously provocative or abhorent. It all depends on which group of readers you're writing for, and how badly you value the vote-scores.


Sin.

I don't doubt I'll hit some hot buttons with readers. If I was really afraid of ratings, I wouldn't post it. This may be the story that ruins my 'perfect score,' but if it does, so be it.

Your comment about a happy ending is interesting. The ending is the one part of the story I haven't quite figured out. I'm not so sure it will be happy.

 

[lisa123414]

Hi Slyc -
Go with your feelings on this. The stories that keep us all interested have an edge. Real life is just this, we all trade our wants against reality. Yes people want a happy ending, unfortunately real life often does not get us there. Infidelity is a hot topic, there are a million reasons for getting there, mostly ignoble, but there are some instances where people can understand, if not forgive.
If they dont forgive, so what? It is a story of human weaknes, let them that are above weakness cast the first stone and all that. Good luck
Lisa

 

[Stella_Omega]

The character I'm working on right now-- I want to give her some characteristics that I feel might open me up to racism charges. I'm thinking of making racism one of the themes of the book, though-- because I was looking for a way to justify what i wanted her to be, it added depth to my work...

 

[slyc_willie]

If they dont forgive, so what? It is a story of human weaknes, let them that are above weakness cast the first stone and all that. Good luck
Lisa

I had not exactly thought of it that way, Lisa.

It is, indeed, a story of weakness.

 

[lisa123414]

The character I'm working on right now-- I want to give her some characteristics that I feel might open me up to racism charges. I'm thinking of making racism one of the themes of the book, though-- because I was looking for a way to justify what i wanted her to be, it added depth to my work...

Stella - think Archie Bunker. We all have *unforgivable* flaws. It's what makes us human.

Lisa

 

[slyc_willie]

The character I'm working on right now-- I want to give her some characteristics that I feel might open me up to racism charges. I'm thinking of making racism one of the themes of the book, though-- because I was looking for a way to justify what i wanted her to be, it added depth to my work...

So . . . controversy equates to depth in a character.

If Archie Bunker hadn't been such a racist pig, would we have enjoyed his character so much?

ETA: LOL. Serendipity is a wonderful thing . . . .

 

[scriptordelecto]

If readers are reacting, then you're doing something right. It means they're emotionally invested in the character, which is, to me, the whole point of a story. It's the reason I go past the first paragraph in any piece of fiction.

I'm there to step into the mind of another person for a period of time. If their values and morals don't exactly mesh with mine, it can be a bit jarring, but those are usually the times a character gets under my skin and stays with me. Do what you feel will work best, Slyc.

 

[lisa123414]

Stella and Willie -
Can you think of a lasting hero or heroine who was - I hate to use the word, but for lack of a better way to express - perfect? We cannot relate to perfection, and to me at least, the flawless characters leave me a bit cold. If we know someone well enough to see their weakness, more so if we understand it, then you have created a real human being. If you do this, you have really done something extraodinary. Oops, make that two roses!

 

[slyc_willie]

If readers are reacting, then you're doing something right. It means they're emotionally invested in the character, which is, to me, the whole point of a story. It's the reason I go past the first paragraph in any piece of fiction.

I'm there to step into the mind of another person for a period of time. If their values and morals don't exactly mesh with mine, it can be a bit jarring, but those are usually the times a character gets under my skin and stays with me. Do what you feel will work best, Slyc.

Script!

I'm reminded of one of my non-con stories, and a rather lengthy public comment in which a reader told me that my story disturbed her on many levels. But she still loved it because she understood the fantasy aspect behind it.

I don't plan on changing anything about this story. It will be what the characters demand it to be.

 

[slyc_willie]

Stella and Willie -
Can you think of a lasting hero or heroine who was - I hate to use the word, but for lack of a better way to express - perfect? We cannot relate to perfection, and to me at least, the flawless characters leave me a bit cold. If we know someone well enough to see their weakness, more so if we understand it, then you have created a real human being. If you do this, you have really done something extraodinary. Oops, make that two roses!

Does Superman, before 1989, count?

Of course imperfect characters are the best ones. But I wonder if I can pull off writing a character that does the most immoral, adulterous things, yet still finds a way to endear herself to readers. Not a character readers love to hate, but a character that some readers, at least, could see and say, 'Yeah, I might have done the same.'

 

[scriptordelecto]

Script!

I'm reminded of one of my non-con stories, and a rather lengthy public comment in which a reader told me that my story disturbed her on many levels. But she still loved it because she understood the fantasy aspect behind it.

I don't plan on changing anything about this story. It will be what the characters demand it to be.

I'd expect nothing less from you!

 

[slyc_willie]

I'd expect nothing less from you!

You're such a sweetie.

Nice to see you back on the threads.

 

[scriptordelecto]

You're such a sweetie.

Nice to see you back on the threads.

Thanks babe! It's good to be home.

 

[3113]

If readers are reacting, then you're doing something right.

Unless their reaction is to back-click and stop reading Thing is, he's only had one reader react so far and the question isn't did she react...but having reacted, would she keep reading.

I recall reading a novel once where it was very forgivable for a man with a disabled, but loving wife to cheat on her because, hey, men gots their urges and if the wife can't satisfy, why not? The opposite is not acceptable, as mentioned; it's only acceptable for a wife to engage infidelity if her husband is cold and distant, i.e. not a real man, unlike her sexy lover: a-la Lady Chatterly's Lover or "The Piano" or something like that. I guess the idea there is that the wife has every right to leave a husband who doesn't "turn her into a woman" as it were.

Interesting double standard there.

 

[slyc_willie]

Unless their reaction is to back-click and stop reading Thing is, he's only had one reader react so far and the question isn't did she react...but having reacted, would she keep reading.

I recall reading a novel once where it was very forgivable for a man with a disabled, but loving wife to cheat on her because, hey, men gots their urges and if the wife can't satisfy, why not? The opposite is not acceptable, as mentioned; it's only acceptable for a wife to engage infidelity if her husband is cold and distant, i.e. not a real man, unlike her sexy lover: a-la Lady Chatterly's Lover or "The Piano" or something like that. I guess the idea there is that the wife has every right to leave a husband who doesn't "turn her into a woman" as it were.

Interesting double standard there.

It is indeed.

There are still quite a few male-oriented givens when it comes to writing either smut or erotica. Basically, it is accepted -- and, to some degree, expected -- that a man can look elsewhere for sexual satisfaction if his wife does not satisfy him.

Those notions deny the idea that women can be sexually needy or desirous, and that men can be -- gasp! -- sexually uninterested or unfulfilling. But the reality is that such situations and relationships do exist. They are probably more common than most men would like to admit.

 

[Penelope Street]

Have you ever written a story that you knew would rub some people the wrong way?

If you're not writing stories that will rub a few the wrong way, you're probably writing some pretty boring stories.

I have a story in the works that deals with infidelity. It's not the main theme of the story, but it is a major component, and a source of constant consternation for my heroine. She has a good relationship with her husband, but he is disabled, and Amy (my main character) finds herself having to make sacrifices in order to pay their bills. Out of desperation, she begins making Internet porn videos.

If the story was just about a young woman slowly being seduced into the amateur porn biz, it would probably be arousing enough. But for some reason, I find the inclusion of infidelity very compelling. It's the most 'attractive' aspect of the story, I feel, giving it a little extra 'oomph.'

But I wonder why that is.

Am I missing something? Isn't the additional oomph simply from the added internal conflict within your heroine?

I know that, when readers read this story, quite a few are going to be shocked and will probably vilify the heroine.

I suppose some will. I've one story about an unrepentant cheating couple and I meant to arouse a little sympathy for their spouses. A few readers commented on this ingredient of the tale, but none seemed totally outraged by it.



I agree with pretty much everyone else. You've a fine idea for a story and it's better to pour your energies into writing the best tale possible instead of worrying about how certain sensitive individuals may react.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Stella - think Archie Bunker. We all have *unforgivable* flaws. It's what makes us human.

Lisa

Huh! I hadn't thought of going that way! My character has a tail like a monkeysome physical characteristics that mark her as other than completely human. Unless I can think of a good reason for her being like this, I'll drop it from the character-- and I really don't want to.
So, it seems to me that making her race the subject of some bigotry would work. But even so, it's a tricky point, and sensitive to handle.

But damn, I'll have to add that into my list of what-is-he-likes!

And it's simply wonderful to see Penny here for a moment

 

[amicus]

Have you ever written a story that you knew would rub some people the wrong way? Granted, for every story on Lit, there is probably at least one person who will take offense.

I have a story in the works that deals with infidelity. It's not the main theme of the story, but it is a major component, and a source of constant consternation for my heroine. She has a good relationship with her husband, but he is disabled, and Amy (my main character) finds herself having to make sacrifices in order to pay their bills. Out of desperation, she begins making Internet porn videos.

If the story was just about a young woman slowly being seduced into the amateur porn biz, it would probably be arousing enough. But for some reason, I find the inclusion of infidelity very compelling. It's the most 'attractive' aspect of the story, I feel, giving it a little extra 'oomph.'

But I wonder why that is. I know that, when readers read this story, quite a few are going to be shocked and will probably vilify the heroine. Others will be turned on by the illicit nature of her doings. But then, one of the appeals of writing is to get a rise out of your audience, to bring out their emotions, whether good or bad.

Right?

~~~

Forgive me, if that is necessary, my opinions on any matter are usually not solicited, but this is an open thread, inviting comment...

A further apologetic gesture as I have recently been accused of not treating posters as people' real live human beings and that is true, I do not, I know no one personally here and my presence is not and has never been a attempt at social interaction, merely and intellectual exchange of ideas and thoughts, without regard to personalities.

I do, however, have a warm memory of whoever slycwilly is and a comment previous made although I do not recall the particulars...

I suggest, upon reading your initial post and the follow up comments you have made, that, infidelity itself, is the theme of your story, not the circumstances of the invalided husband nor the trying conditions that required the wife to offer her services in the porn industry, all props for you to write about marital fidelity as a value and what it means.

I think you are asking the question, perhaps of yourself, perhaps in general, perhaps of your SO, as to the true value of the vows of fidelity one takes and under what circumstances, if any, they may be broken.

It is not a new theme, if that is so, and a rather mundane example might be, "Indecent Proposal", with Demi Moore, if memory serves.

Nor do I think you give a whit about the response of readers when the story is published, I think this is the response you did not wish to read.

But then...who am I?

regards...

Amicus...

 

[oggbashan]

I wrote a couple of stories intending to provoke a reaction:

The Giant Squid is a satire on tentacle porn.

Donna is a dark tale about abuse.

Muslim Roles was an attempt to win the Last Place Contest.

The Worst Chain Story Ever Chap 01 was intended to spark others into writing more chapters and really make that Chain Story "The Worst". I think I, and we, achieved our object. Not only is the writing appalling but we omitted chapters and left the epic unfinished.

I don't always get the reaction I expected.

Og