Would you Pay dues to belong to this organization?

[Marxist]

Mission Statement:

The ______ insures the political, educational, social and economic equality of _______ groups and citizens; achieves equality of rights and eliminates _____ prejudice among the citizens of the United States; removes all barriers of _____ discrimination through the democratic processes; seeks to enact and enforce federal, state, and local laws securing ____ rights; informs the public of the adverse effects of _____ discrimination and seeks its elimination; educates persons as to their constitutional rights and to take all lawful action in furtherance of these principles.

My dues are up for renewal and I'm just wondering if once again I stand alone.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Nah. Most groups who want social, political, and educational equality mean they want that equality for themselves and not for the rest.

Take NOW, for instance. They want equality. But they want women to be more equal than men to make up for all the past abuses men have done.

Take the NAACP. They want educational equality. But only for black people. Forget poor hispanic, oriental, or god forbid poor whites. They mean "A black mind is a terrible thing to waste." Wonder what would happen if someone formed a white boy association and asked for non-profit status?

I don't pay dues for that crap. I just send long letters to all of my congresspeople and some who are someone else's congresspeople.

I'd belong to a group but only if it really meant equality and didn't just seek to get that equality by putting the people in the so-called establishment beneath them. And no, I'm not a white person.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Re:

Would you Pay dues to belong to this organization?[/B]

Not if the blanks are filled in with something stupid like this:

The Black People Are Better Than White People Cause We All Come From Africa Collective insures the political, educational, social and economic equality of South Central groups and citizens; achieves equality of rights and eliminates only black prejudice among the citizens of the United States; removes all barriers of BPABTWPBWACFA membership discrimination through the democratic processes; seeks to enact and enforce federal, state, and local laws securing "Shoot 'em on sight" rights; informs the public of the adverse effects of only black discrimination and seeks its elimination; educates persons as to their constitutional rights and to take all lawful action in furtherance of these principles.

 

[LadyDarkFire]

It would really have to depend on my opinion on the subject, the work that this group has done in the past, and the amount of money they want. Also, I would ask just How much of that money goes to the cause.

 

[Marxist]

Re: Re:

Not if the blanks are filled in with something stupid like this:

The Black People Are Better Than White People Cause We All Come From Africa Collective insures the political, educational, social and economic equality of South Central groups and citizens; achieves equality of rights and eliminates only black prejudice among the citizens of the United States; removes all barriers of BPABTWPBWACFA membership discrimination through the democratic processes; seeks to enact and enforce federal, state, and local laws securing "Shoot 'em on sight" rights; informs the public of the adverse effects of only black discrimination and seeks its elimination; educates persons as to their constitutional rights and to take all lawful action in furtherance of these principles.

Huh?

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Exactly.

How are we supposed to advise you on this group if the blanks can be filled in with all sorts of idiotic things we don't know about. I know you know what the blanks are, but we don't.

Just what exactly are you expecting us to tell you here? "Yeah! They sound great!" or "No! They sound awful". With the blanks empty all I'm seeing is a template for a mission statement anyone from the KKK to the Boy Scouts of America could use.

 

[Marxist]

DCL, I already belong to this group so obviously it's not Young Pedophiles of America or the klan or a sewing circle.

It's the NAACP. The reason I didn't fill in the blanks was that I didn't want people who don't have a clue as to the real agenda of the organization (KM, "A Mind Is A Terrible Thing To Waste" belongs to the UNCF. You're about as well informed as a raisin sometimes.) wouldn't be prejudiced.

It reads:

Mission Statement:

The NAACP insures the political, educational, social and economic equality of minority groups and citizens; achieves equality of rights and eliminates racial prejudice among the citizens of the United States; removes all barriers of racial discrimination through the democratic processes; seeks to enact and enforce federal, state, and local laws securing civil rights; informs the public of the adverse effects of racial discrimination and seeks its elimination; educates persons as to their constitutional rights and to take all lawful action in furtherance of these principles.

It was written in 1909.

The dues are $20 and you get a nifty magazine called CRISIS along with it. The reason I asked the board's opinion is that I want to see what everyone's reaction to political activism at the contributor level is. Does this help?

 

[DriveSouth]

I'm not

Joining, but I'm already in the Jesse Jackson Fan Club...

 

[Marxist]

Re: I'm not

Joining, but I'm already in the Jesse Jackson Fan Club...

What? Did you have a love child with your executive assistant while advising the President on Oval Office head too?

Actually I am a real fan of Jesse. He's human and liable to make the mistakes that men with a lot of power and pride do.

 

[DriveSouth]

Re: Re: I'm not

What? Did you have a love child with your executive assistant while advising the President on Oval Office head too?

No, no - I sent him my $20 fee...

 

[Jean Val Jean]

Cut out the middleman and send your dues directly to Terry McCauliffe (sp?) and the Democratic party.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Of course that helps. What's the point of asking advice about a group if you won't let us know their position?

I like the NAACP, but I'm wondering if they would now fight for my rights, now that whites are a "minority" in California. Think they'd let me run for the Board?

Sure, join them. Why not? What's your worry?

 

[DriveSouth]

Re: Re: I'm not

He's human and liable to make the mistakes that men with a lot of power and pride do.

That's the kind of mistake a plain ole everyday sort of person makes.

 

[Saturn Return]

not posted to rile up tail feathers or anything

Um..
I think I'm totally missing the point.

There was this episode of South Park where the town's Flag consisted of a bunch of different colored stick people (red, orange, blue, and purple) where hanging another brown stick figure.

Chef was really pissed and he couldn’t understand why the children saw nothing wrong with it and started calling the whole entire town a bunch of racists.

He went on a campaign to change that damned flag.

Only until the very end did he realize the kids didn’t see that the brown one was any different than any of the other stick people…it was just a bunch of stick figures in different colors on the flag.

Chef felt very sheepish after all.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Everyone's ignorant in some ways, bubba. Everyone's about as informed as a raisin at some point in time. I'm sure you could tell me exactly what's the difference between line and hawser. NAACP and UNCF are the same thing to me, they're both organizations that want nothing to do with me other than thank me kindly for donations, please wait in the lobby.

 

[Marxist]

Everyone's ignorant in some ways, bubba. Everyone's about as informed as a raisin at some point in time. I'm sure you could tell me exactly what's the difference between line and hawser. NAACP and UNCF are the same thing to me, they're both organizations that want nothing to do with me other than thank me kindly for donations, please wait in the lobby.

Uh, how do you know this? Are you just making this up as you go along? I wouldn't dare weigh in authoritatively on something in which I had no experience. Did I miss you at the last fundraiser or board meeting? White people belong to and contribute to both organizations which have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

The reason I posed the question openly was that I have doubts about giving money in this day and age to any one particular social cause, no matter how good their intentions. I don't experience the kind of racism daily that the NAACP has historically fought. Maybe you've changed my mind a little, KM. You're definitely not racist, just not well informed and you have a big mouth. I'll definitely contribute to the UNCF (United Negro College Fund). I enjoy the Crisis magazine so maybe I'll just look upon my membership in the NAACP as an expensive subscription.

 

[KillerMuffin]

One time, long ago, in high school, I fervently believed that I was a colored person. I discovered that not only was I a non-colored person, but I didn't know what it was like to be discriminated against because of my color. "Tan people are in," or so said the representative of the NAACP I spoke to. They were more than happy to accept a donation, however.

Since then, whoopee fuckin do. The KKK was more receptive and they called me wetback bitch.

I think I'll wallow in my inexperienced, ignorant view of the NAACP. After all, they say I have no color, so what do I know?

 

[Marxist]

KM--What do your folks look like? Seriously. Are you adopted? If you're not, how could you not know that you weren't colored?

Not that it matters because I've signed up a great many White and Asian friends who thought it would be cool to be a card-carrying member of the NAACP (you really do get a card by the way).

I'm sorry if you were treated poorly by someone who was insensitive to your tannedness. Why did you want to join anyway. It's not like that many people literally belong to the NAACP.

 

[Mischka]

...both organizations which have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

The NAACP and the UNCF do overlap in their goals, if not in their history. The NAACP mission statement says that the organization aims to ensure educational equality. The UNCF is an affirmative action program that provides educational opportunities for black students in order to achieve this equality.

 

[PowerOfOne]

NAACP and UNCF

Marxist I am sure this post will cause a war of astronomical proportions but I am posting it anyway.

What I find offensive about the NAACP and United Negro Collge Fund is the names themselves. I do not see an organization called NAAWP or United White College Fund or NAAJP or the United Jewish College Fund or the United Anything Other Than Black Or White Or Any Person We Have Not Covered Here College Fund. The names of these organizations are racist in themselves.

I would not pay dues organizations that practice segregation which the names of these organizations lead one to believe. Isn't it time for a NAAAP (National Association for the Advancement of All People) or United All People College Fund? How about "United College Fund" or National Association of People (NAOP) (ok, so NAP does not sound so smarthy).

I refuse to play into the paying for sins I did not commit; had no knowledge of; was not born at the time; and no one asked me, that still seems to be the case in the United States of America. (I cannot speak for other countries, only the one I am in).

Ok Marxist, I took the first shot. I am eagerly awaiting the return fire. I call it as I see it.

 

[KillerMuffin]

I wanted to join because I'd been learning a little bit about it during black history month. The more I heard the better I liked the premise of the group and the ideals it stood for. In my mind everyone is the same, we're all brown, just different shades. I have a large mix of various ethnicities in me, black, white, asian, amerindian, romany mostly. I look hispanic, but other than the fact that she was born there, my mother has no Mexican in her.

I figured that one way to make things equal among all was for all to band together and stand for something. Idealistic high school girls who aren't black apparently didn't fit their bill. The more I think about it, though, I do believe that "colored people" should define everyone, not just people with dark brown skin. The NAACP's vision is too narrow.

 

[CeceliaSkye]

Would you pay to belong to this organization?

I knew it was the NAACP, and I am white...
Marxist is correct there are plenty of white people who belong to this organization. One of my proudest possesions is a picture of my Aunt "Bobby" recieving an honorary membership award to the NAACP... and this was in the early 60's. So, would I pay dues to this organization? Yes, they have done alot of good...

 

[Marxist]

Now look at this mess. I go away for a moment to eat dinner with some friends and I come back to find this shit going on. Truly sad. Where do I begin?

CS--Of course you're dead on. A good question is the relevence of the NAACP in a time like this. The Legal Fund is probably worth saving in and of itself.

KM--Flip Wilson had a wonderful joke about the NAACP and American Indians but I'll spare you the chuckle. Of course it means more than just Black folks but I think deep down you know it does too. You're just happy being a Right thinker. As long as your universe works for you, there's little I can do to correct it.

Pof1--I've told many people here at Lit. several times that no one is an island or an accident. You and I both stand on the backs of the American Indian. We (Americans that came before us) took his land through unpremeditated biological warfare and broken promises. That's the fact and yes we do owe the people we hurt compensation in the form of a hand up and a fair shake. Pof1, if you're White, you (and I to a lesser degree) owe the American Negro another debt for physically providing labor for more than 300 years uncompensated. Who knows where America would be without the slave labor it depended upon in an industrial age. Never make the "I didn't do it to ya" argument. It's a leaky creaky thing so full of holes that no one outside of the klan or high schoolers use it (not that you're a member of the klan or in high school).

Regarding the names of the UNCF and NAACP. You're wrong if you think there is no NAAWP or groups that specifically assist Jews or other minorities in seeking education. The NAAWP is headed up by former KKK grand dragon David Duke. As far as the UNCF having anything to do with Affirmative Action, prove it. You can't because it doesn't. Here is their mission statement:

Our mission is to enhance the quality of education by providing financial assistance to deserving students, raising operating funds for member colleges and universities, and increasing access to technology for students and faculty at historically black colleges and universities (HBCUs). Since its inception in 1944, UNCF has grown to become the nation's oldest and most successful African American education assistance organization.

In other words the UNCF is a charity and abides by the rules as such.

The NAACP was found in 1909 and in order to be inclusive of as many peoples at a disadvantage at the time chose the now dated word "colored". I don't know if changing the name would help in giving folks a broader understanding but maybe.....

I hope I've been of help. Send appologies in the form of chocolate candy.

 

[PowerOfOne]

Marxist

Pof1--I've told many people here at Lit. several times that no one is an island or an accident. You and I both stand on the backs of the American Indian. We (Americans that came before us) took his land through unpremeditated biological warfare and broken promises. That's the fact and yes we do owe the people we hurt compensation in the form of a hand up and a fair shake. Pof1, if you're White, you (and I to a lesser degree) owe the American Negro another debt for physically providing labor for more than 300 years uncompensated. Who knows where America would be without the slave labor it depended upon in an industrial age. Never make the "I didn't do it to ya" argument. It's a leaky creaky thing so full of holes that no one outside of the klan or high schoolers use it (not that you're a member of the klan or in high school).

I do not owe the American Indians anything. I do not owe African Americans anything, unless of course either of these are financing my house, car, etc.. Marxist, when does the debt of our forefathers stop? And since my ancestors were on a boat on the way over here during slave trade and after the American Indian fiasco, how do I owe either??? I don't and YOU don't. I get very tired of having to pay for something I had nothing to do with. I do enough things now that I take responsibility for but something that happened in history. I pay this "debt" to humanity every day of my life by treating everyone equal and giving them my respect until they prove I gave my respect in error.

And as for David Duke being the spokesperson for white people or any people other than Klan members, you and I both know that is untrue. The Klan are small in number compared to the number of people living in America. MOST of us are NOT affiliated with the Klan or any of their hate propoganda. That was an unfair statement, Marxist and not worthy of you at all. I expected a much better argument than what you have shown me. And no, I am not a high school student although sometimes I wish I could have those days back and I am in NO WAY associated with the Klan.

I am an American, Marxist. I believe in the melting pot we have here. I love the different cultures and learning about them. I have never stated that my life was interesting so thank God there are more interesting people out there that I can learn from and enjoy. I enjoy the give and take that you and I do via this board. I enjoy the mental stimulation that it brings. But when you are wrong, you are just plain wrong.

The names of the organizations that you mentioned have racial connotations. I stand by my position of not supporting such associations until the names include all people or are we still equal but seperate?

BTW, Encarta has this to say about the KKK...

"Ku Klux Klan, secret terrorist organization that originated in the southern states during the period of Reconstruction following the American Civil War and was reactivated on a wider geographic basis in the 20th century. The original Klan was organized in Pulaski, Tennessee, during the winter of 1865 to 1866, by six former Confederate army officers who gave their society a name adapted from the Greek word kuklos (“circle”).
Although the Ku Klux Klan began as a prankish social organization, its activities soon were directed against the Republican Reconstruction governments and their leaders, both black and white, which came into power in the southern states in 1867."

David Duke and his organization (if you can call it that because there are many different branches and the right hand never knows what the left hand is doing or what they stand for), are against whites also. I am Catholic so you know that I am not a favorite of his. So please do not include David Duke as someone that speaks for any people other them himself. And if the KKK is sponsering scholarships please let me know. This I HAVE to see!

 

[Guest]

Re: Marxist

Pof1--I never said that the klan or David Duke spoke for all Whites, you said:

I do not see an organization called NAAWP .

I simply proved you wrong. There is one and Duke is their spokesman.

I can't really respond to the rest because you didn't read or understand my post fully.

I will ask you this: If not for the NAACP or UNCF or the Urban League or SCLC or many other "colored" organizations, what would have happened in the decades following Reconstruction beyond more lynching and segregation?

You don't know because no one knows since our current reality is shaped by their participation in American freedom.