"Would Irish-Americans mind...?"

[Styphon]

Hi, All

I thought I'd refer to a letter in the Daily Mail here in the UK, which said something along the lines of...

"Would Irish-Americans mind if I contribute to the Islamic Terrorist Fighting Fund?"

There is a growing interest in getting a clear statement from America that IRA funding will be clamped down on in the US, in the drive against terrorism.

The Canary Wharf bomb caused a hell of a lot of casualties and heavy damage to some of our financial institutions, and the IRA gets funds from public collections in the States. I have enclosed a news report below...

Friday, February 09, 1996
(Reuters) - A huge bomb wrecked an office block in a London financial district on Friday. The explosion, in an underground garage of a six-storey office block not far from the Canary Wharf office tower in east London's Docklands area, left 100 walking wounded with eight seriously hurt.

Some other bombs were...

Thursday, February 15, 1996
(AP) -- Police said they deactivated a bomb in central London today after receiving coded warnings. No one immediately claimed responsibility. A square mile in the heart of the city was sealed off as police searched for other devices, Scotland Yard said.

Sunday, February 18, 1996
(Reuters) - The IRA said on Monday it had planted a bomb that exploded on a London bus on Sunday, killing one person and injuring eight. The BBC in Belfast said the guerrilla group made the claim in a telephone call to its newsroom, using a recognised codeword.

So far this year, the UK mainlad has been bombed on August 3 2001, May 6 2001, April 14 2001 and March 4 2001.

So far, the most we've heard on the subject of banning IRA collections was when a British reporter at a press conference in the US asked if these collections would be outlawed, and the answer basically amounted to "Next question please."

Terrorism is terrorism.

Styphon

 

[naudiz]

I don't set US foreign policy, or domestic for that matter. I'm sure most of you are breathing a sigh of relief.

However, speaking strictly from my little fantasy world, I wouldn't shed a tear if IRA funding was made illegal. Yes, I'm Irish-American. Yes, I would mind if UK citizens contributed to the Islamic Terrorist Fighting Fund, but I also mind that Americans contribute to the IRA.

One argument I've heard is: well the money I send goes to help orphans. It's not for the fighting. The problem is, when it all goes into the same pot, you can't say your dollar isn't being spent on explosives.

Again, I don't set policy. If I did, I would say: yes, terrorism of any stripe is a bad thing that will be dealt with even if it means telling our own people the next time you cut the IRA a check, Mama 'Diz is going to get medieval on your ass.

What I want is information. Can someone email me information? I want statistics. I want objective, hard evidence that I can point to and tell people: look at what your money is buying. Since I personally can't issue mandates (that anyone will actually heed), then raising awareness is pretty much what I'm left with.

If nothing else, the issue has been raised. Even if the response is, right now, "Next question?" it isn't something that can be ignored forever. Admittedly, right now, the US Government has bigger fish to fry. That doesn't mean Americans can't be presented with the facts; maybe some of them will wake up and smell the gun-powder.

I can hope. And rant a lot. I'm pretty good at the ranting, actually.

 

[KillerMuffin]

You know, this is starting to get a little old here, guys.

We KNOW that a few Irish-Americans support the IRA. You may not know this, but several of those few Irish-Americans are people who are actually natuarlized Americans from Northern Ireland.

You may not know this either, but several offshoots of the IRA, RIRA, CIRA and the Sinn Fein are designated as terrorist organizations and as such it is illegal in the United States to give them funding, harbor them, or otherwise help them.

When people who fund terrorist organizations are discovered within these borders, they are expelled or they are prosecuted depending on citizenship.

Outside of creating laws and enforcing them, which the United States has done, there is JACK SHIT we can do about it.

You may not realize this either, but there are United States Citizens who are funding or harboring Bin Laden and his group, any of the Palestinian groups, basically, if you name a terrorist organization, you will find sypmathizers and probably some benefactors in the United States.

People who live here come from other places and when they do, they bring their culture, heritage, and political biases with them. Not just the good stuff, but the bad stuff as well.

So, rather than sit here and whine and complain because there are some US citizens who think funding terrorists is a good thing, tell us what more we can do about it.

And before ya'll get on your high horses, there are British citizens who support, harbor, and/or finance known terrorists that target the US. Do you see us bitching because Bin Laden is chummy enough with a bunch of British people to discuss attacks prior to them happening? Do we blame you for his terrorist activities because there are one or two bad people in your society who support, harbor, or finance Bin Laden or any other terrorist group? No. We have more class than to assign blame.

QUIT BLAMING ME FOR SOMETHING I DIDN'T DO. QUIT BLAMING THE US FOR SOMETHING IT DIDN'T DO. IN CASE YOU DIDN'T NOTICE, CATCHING ANY SORT OF TERRORIST ACTIVITY IS NOT EASY. IRA SUPPORTERS DON'T EXACTLY TAKE OUT CLASSIFIED ADS AND IT IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW TO SEND YOUR FAMILY CASH, EVEN IF THEY LIVE IN ANOTHER COUNTRY.

So, in conclusion. Shut the fuck up.

 

[Guest]

You know, this is starting to get a little old here, guys.

We KNOW that a few Irish-Americans support the IRA. You may not know this, but several of those few Irish-Americans are people who are actually natuarlized Americans from Northern Ireland.

You may not know this either, but several offshoots of the IRA, RIRA, CIRA and the Sinn Fein are designated as terrorist organizations and as such it is illegal in the United States to give them funding, harbor them, or otherwise help them.

When people who fund terrorist organizations are discovered within these borders, they are expelled or they are prosecuted depending on citizenship.

Outside of creating laws and enforcing them, which the United States has done, there is JACK SHIT we can do about it.

You may not realize this either, but there are United States Citizens who are funding or harboring Bin Laden and his group, any of the Palestinian groups, basically, if you name a terrorist organization, you will find sypmathizers and probably some benefactors in the United States.

People who live here come from other places and when they do, they bring their culture, heritage, and political biases with them. Not just the good stuff, but the bad stuff as well.

So, rather than sit here and whine and complain because there are some US citizens who think funding terrorists is a good thing, tell us what more we can do about it.

And before ya'll get on your high horses, there are British citizens who support, harbor, and/or finance known terrorists that target the US. Do you see us bitching because Bin Laden is chummy enough with a bunch of British people to discuss attacks prior to them happening? Do we blame you for his terrorist activities because there are one or two bad people in your society who support, harbor, or finance Bin Laden or any other terrorist group? No. We have more class than to assign blame.

QUIT BLAMING ME FOR SOMETHING I DIDN'T DO. QUIT BLAMING THE US FOR SOMETHING IT DIDN'T DO. IN CASE YOU DIDN'T NOTICE, CATCHING ANY SORT OF TERRORIST ACTIVITY IS NOT EASY. IRA SUPPORTERS DON'T EXACTLY TAKE OUT CLASSIFIED ADS AND IT IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW TO SEND YOUR FAMILY CASH, EVEN IF THEY LIVE IN ANOTHER COUNTRY.

So, in conclusion. Shut the fuck up.

AMEN! AMEN! Killermuffin, I've read your posts for some time now and I've come to a conclusion. You rock! I tend to step back from such arguments because, honestly, a lot of posters intimidate me. But, you have spoken for many folks in this one. Thanks! I'm sick of it.

 

[Styphon]

So, in conclusion. Shut the fuck up.

Bravo - a reasoned, erudite conclusion always demonstrates the calibre of the poster...

Seriously, if the American spokesman had actually SAID that such activites were already illegal, and that ALL terrorist sympathisers would feel the full weight of the law, that would have been SOMETHING. Ducking the question the way he did is NOT the way to inspire allied support.

It wasn't long after the spokesman's interview that I have read and heard many a comment echoing the content of the letter submitted to The Daily Mail Today. Hence the post.

If, as you say in your post, that after making and enforcing the laws as best you can, there is "jack shit" you can really do about the situation, I can't really see what Bush hopes to achieve in the long term.

Styphon

 

[KillerMuffin]

Okay, what would you suggest we do? Do bear in mind that we have things like civil liberties here. No idea? Didn't think so. We have laws, we enforce them. I have no specifics because I don't know anyone who finances terrorists. Sorry, but this seething mass of IRA supporters is a figment of your imagination. We created laws and we enforce them. We are a civilized society and as such we recognize the civil liberties of citizens and aliens who reside in this country. You may not care about civil liberties, but that is the one thing we hold sacred above all else. Nebulous "Irish-American IRA financers" is not enough to make me go out and start shooting Irish-Americans because one of them might finance the IRA any more than I'm going to go out and shoot muslims and arabs because one of them might be a terrorist. You may do things that way in your country, but over here, we have laws and we abide by those. When someone doesn't abide by them, we lawfully collect evidence and prosecute. That may not be the way it works all the time, but that's the way it works most of the time.

If you think enacting laws and enforcing them isn't enough, then I'd sincerely hate to be a part of your country. Nothing worse than a pithy dictatorship with no respect for anyone's rights beyond its own.

Like I said, shut the fuck up, your ignorance is starting to show.

 

[sexy-girl]

i think there is a feeling that "some" americans have turned a blind eye to ira financing ... there is a feeling that "some" americans think its ok to give to the ira because they arent really terrorists


i think its fair enough to bring up this subject now because bush and blair have declared war on ALL terroism


i think british people are just looking to hear from america that they dont condone people contributing to the ira ... i know its illegal but that doesnt always mean anything ... maybe the british have some misconceptions about this and perhaps we're totally wrong about this so it would be nice to hear bush/someone say they are just as much against this as any other terrorist funding


i think we just want to feel that america is truely united against every form of terroism not just terroism that effects americans which im sure they are ... against all terrorism i mean

 

[Styphon]

i think there is a feeling that "some" americans have turned a blind eye to ira financing ... there is a feeling that "some" americans think its ok to give to the ira because they arent really terrorists.


i think its fair enough to bring up this subject now because bush and blair have declared war on ALL terroism


i think british people are just looking to hear from america that they dont condone people contributing to the ira ... i know its illegal but that doesnt always mean anything ... maybe the british have some misconceptions about this and perhaps we're totally wrong about this so it would be nice to hear bush/someone say they are just as much against this as any other terrorist funding


i think we just want to feel that america is truely united against every form of terroism not just terroism that effects americans which im sure they are ... against all terrorism i mean

Exactly, sexy-girl - killermuffin seems to be utterly oblivious to the point I was trying to raise. This matter has appeared a fair amount in the UK press, and among people who I've spoken to and it's a point that needs to be addressed. Killermuffin huffing and puffing and yelling "Shut the fuck up" isn't going to clear the matter up I hope better educated and more articulate people have been elected to your Government!

Styphon

 

[Styphon]

Sorry, but this seething mass of IRA supporters is a figment of your imagination.
I wouldn't say that we picture a "seething mass" but people DO believe that the IRA gets generous funding in the USA.

We created laws and we enforce them. We are a civilized society and as such we recognize the civil liberties of citizens and aliens who reside in this country.
Ah, only in America then...

You may not care about civil liberties, but that is the one thing we hold sacred above all else.
...only in your country apparently...

Nebulous "Irish-American IRA financers" is not enough to make me go out and start shooting Irish-Americans because one of them might finance the IRA any more than I'm going to go out and shoot muslims and arabs because one of them might be a terrorist.
I'm relieved to hear it!

If you think enacting laws and enforcing them isn't enough, then I'd sincerely hate to be a part of your country. Nothing worse than a pithy dictatorship with no respect for anyone's rights beyond its own.
Actually it was YOU that said if enacting and enforcing laws wasn't enough, there was jack shit could be done about it!

Like I said, shut the fuck up, your ignorance is starting to show.
Is it? Good Lord, how embarrasing! Mind you, to quote you, if I lived in your contry you wouldn't tell me to shut up - you'd defend my civil rights.

Another thing that has made UK citizens unsure of Bush is the situation in Macedonia, where troops are collecting weapons from rebels, and I quote from the Washington Post Foreign Service
Saturday, July 14, 2001; Page A14 ...

...Britain would lead the force, which is meant to make each side of the conflict in Macedonia confident that terms of a peace settlement would be respected by the other. U.S. troops would provide only logistical support and other back-up help, reflecting reluctance in the Bush administration to assume a more direct U.S. role in the Balkans.

Britain, whose government has been particularly sensitive to fears that full-scale war in Macedonia could spread elsewhere, plans to provide about one-third of the troops. Italy, France and Greece would be main contributors.

..**** NATO officials have grown resigned to U.S. reluctance to take a full role. According to NATO sources, Secretary General George Robertson chose not to make an issue of it during a recent visit to Washington.

Apparently we respect civil liberties enough to get into a situation where Bush would rather not go.

Styphon

 

[naudiz]

Sure, there are probably "some" Americans who turn a blind eye to IRA funding. There are also "some" Americans who turn a blind eye to domestic violence and child abuse. Do I think it's awful? Hell yes! Do I think I should be held personally accountable for their actions? Hell no! In all those situations, we have laws in place and we catch the bad guys when we can. I can't explain why people do bad things and why others let them. Some people just plain suck: that's universal, by the way, not just an American phenomenon.

You're asking for definitive answers in a time when we really have bigger fish to fry, and you're asking a handful of citizens who've already made it clear they a) have no tangible political power and b) don't support the IRA anyway. I don't see the wide-spread support we're being accused of. Can someone give me some financial figures that can be backed up? My email is in my profile. Knock yourself out. Remember: I said 'that can be backed up'.

Maybe the point does need to be addressed, but I should think people would have the good taste to address the point at a more appropriate time. Maybe you think this is exactly the right time, since it's your agenda, but when I look at the TV and see that the heap that used to be the free world's financial center is still smoldering? Sorry. I've got other things on my mind than your agenda.

 

[naudiz]

On another note: I wouldn't be so sure you wouldn't be told to shut the fuck up if you lived in our country. I tell my beloved countrymen to shut the fuck up all the time, and they're well within their civil rights to tell me to shove it.

God, I love this country.

 

[WriterDom]

i think british people are just looking to hear from america that they dont condone people contributing to the ira ... i know its illegal but that doesnt always mean anything ... maybe the british have some misconceptions about this and perhaps we're totally wrong about this so it would be nice to hear bush/someone say they are just as much against this as any other terrorist funding


i think we just want to feel that america is truely united against every form of terroism not just terroism that effects americans which im sure they are ... against all terrorism i mean

There are pockets of Irish American communities who do give money to the IRA. But the vast majority of Americans wouldn't consider giving them a nickel. You must remember that we are a more diverse country than even the EU taken as a whole. I hope that all terrorist are dealt with.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Well, sexy girl, you seem to be the only sane brit on this thread.

Styphon is clueless. He calls for us to do something, and we already have. To do any more than what we've already done would be tantamount to ignoring the constitution. Anyone with half a brain could tell that the people this board does not condone terrorism of any sort. With the exceptions of yayati and AJ.

It's extremely offensive to blanketly assume that an entire country supports the activities of one or two people, not to mention extremely stupid.

It would be like saying that because Tiggs fucks her dog, everyone on this board fucks their dogs as well.

Putz.

 

[sexy-girl]

thank you killermuffin ... no i dont think its the right time to force this issue or too beat on too americans about it i think that is poor taste Styphon and i dont agree with you about a lot of things you've said but i dont want to get into a debate about it



having said this i think there will be a time very soon when this will need to be addressed and a lot of other terrorist issues from all over the world ... america has declared war against terrorism so have england ... so yes that says there is more that can be done about it america and england will have to look into there foreign policies very carefully about funding to other countries arms sales everything and yes this includes citizens that fund/support terrorist organizations in other countries



i think its great some of the things america have said it scares me some them saying "war" ... but saying they wish to stop all terrorism throughout the world is a brave stance and a uniting stance they are getting support from countries even like china and russia i think its good and should be a crusade to honor the people that have died



but of course the FIRST issue is to find out who destroyed the WTC and catch them ... i hope that wont be the end of it i hope america and england and the rest of the world will follow it up to really chase down terrorism ... then will be the time to get into issues such as IRA funding ... not now though

 

[Myrrdin]

Naudiz.

Can someone give me some financial figures that can be backed up? My email is in my profile. Knock yourself out. Remember: I said 'that can be backed up'.

http://www.timesunion.com/news/special/ireland/albanyties.asp
This is the story of how one community in Albany has contributed 0.5 million dollars to Noraid.


http://www.nisat.org/blackmarket/eu...IRA gunrunner Joe Cahill tells his story.html

This is a autobiographical account of Joe Cahill, convicted gun runner and murderer. Joint treasurer of Sinn Fein and one of the three trustees of the committee that receives virtually all of the funds received in the US by Noraid

www.google.com, throws up about twenty pages of Noraid links including a lot of anti Noraid propoganda. And links to the many US chapters of Noraid. Also a similar group called the Ancient Order Of Hibernians

 

[naudiz]

Thank you!

That's exactly what I wanted to know.

Research: commencing. Don't wait up.

On a side note: I second what WriterDom said, every word.

 

[Styphon]

On another note: I wouldn't be so sure you wouldn't be told to shut the fuck up if you lived in our country. I tell my beloved countrymen to shut the fuck up all the time, and they're well within their civil rights to tell me to shove it.

God, I love this country.

Nice one!! I like your humour

Anyway, some articles for your perusal...

Rosie Cowan, Ireland correspondent: Thursday May 17, 2001
The Guardian

The state department in Washington will freeze the terrorists' US assets, make it illegal for Americans to raise funds for them, and refuse visas to people suspected of having Real IRA links, including members of the 32 County Sovereignty Committee, said to be its political wing.

David Trimble, the province's first minister and the Ulster Unionist leader, said the decision to outlaw the Real IRA was important in both practical and symbolic terms.

"It will deny the Real IRA an important source of fundraising and will refuse their apologists and supporters access to the USA."

Visit http://www.state.gov/www/global/terrorism/1997Report/backg.html
and see the IRA entry where it says "Also is suspected of receiving funds and arms from sympathizers in the United States."

By T.R. Reid
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, February 20, 2001; Page A01

NEW YORK -- The National Irish Freedom Committee's fundraiser here was advertised as a "Testimonial Dinner," but police in Ireland came up with a different name for the event: "The Gunrunners' Ball."

In fact, the evening's main speaker was an admitted gunrunner. His advice to the Irish people he said, is simple: "Keep hold of
your weaponry." First prize in the raffle was a schematic drawing of an AK-74 assault rifle, the weapon of choice for anti-British paramilitaries in Northern Ireland. And a special guest from Belfast, speaking for the political affiliate of a militant paramilitary group, drew an appreciative titter from the crowd when she said, "We need everything, and I mean everything, you Americans can provide."

Organizers would not say how much money the event raised, but based on the price of the dinner, the raffle and advertising in the printed program, the take was probably about $15,000. Sponsors said the funds will be used to help families of paramilitary
"soldiers" currently in prison in Northern Ireland.

The British say they don't know exactly how much money flows to the militants from the United States, but they estimate that it
totals hundreds of thousands of dollars each year...

Supporters of the anti-British cause in the United States say the figure is lower. "It is possible that some Irish Americans contribute to the military movement, knowingly or unknowingly," said Dorothy Robinson, a veteran fundraiser from New Jersey
who attended the dinner here. "But these people don't have deep pockets. The money is, what -- a few thousand, maybe?"

Irish American activists have been sending money and weapons to anti-British guerrillas in Ireland at least since the Easter Rising of 1916.

During three decades of communal fighting in Northern Ireland that began in 1969, American gunrunners regularly smuggled
armaments to the IRA. In 1984, for instance, a group sent a trawler called the Valhalla across the Atlantic in a failed effort to
aid anti-British guerrillas...

It was a bomb built by the Real IRA that killed 29 people in Omagh, Northern Ireland, in August 1998. Relatives of the victims
later formed a committee to shut down the IRA splinter groups. "One thing we thought we could do quickly was cut off the funding," said the committee's lawyer, Jason McClure. "It is shameful, frankly, that Americans are sending money to
cold-blooded murderers."

I will dig up more if need be.

Styphon

 

[MunchinMark]

J'accuse

Am I going to have to throw water over you guys?

It does often seem that the USA is only concerned about itself. This is an image problem and with any luck time and the actions of its citizens will solve it.

The troubles in Northern Ireland have been going on for a long time and it would be nice if the Americans made a statement (I'm talking politicians here) saying that they and their constituents were not supporting the violence, with money and US produced weapons. If you like, an official, "Hey, don't blame us!"

It was good when the Clinton administration got involved. Not least because I suspect that too many Americans, who have been fairly sheltered from terrorism until now, don't know how hard it really is to deal with. If I knew the answer I would have a Nobel Peace Prize. If laws don't work, then they need to be reevaluated. If negotiations don't hold, the terms were wrong. Violence does not secure a peaceful future.

The Nobel Peace Prize awaits an effective answer to terrorism, should anyone feel inspired.

 

[delite]

ok you are right about this not being the time to bring up the IRA stuff I agree my cousin's still missing he was in the world trade centre.
however back in the 80's A boy friend of mine was killed by an IRA bomb. America has our and the worlds sympathy and support, Britain's just want to here your president say that he believes it wrong for Americans to fund The IRA, What we do about them and other terrorist groups can wait until Old BIn head has been irradicated for ever and ever and god is death much too quick for that son of evil.
killer muffin telling people to shut the fuck up just give's the impression (please note I have said the impression) that the death of british citizens is unimportant, and the concerns of brits who have been subject to terrorist bombs for decades, is also unimportant.]

Please pray for my cousin when you pray for those in this terrible crisis, I still hope but it's fading. I pray for those this terrible act of inhummanity has touched.
god bless and keep them all.

 

[taffy5]

So far, the most we've heard on the subject of banning IRA collections was when a British reporter at a press conference in the US asked if these collections would be outlawed, and the answer basically amounted to "Next question please."

Terrorism is terrorism.

Styphon [/B]

Yes Quite right terrorism is terrorism, let me remind you that the UK government has been democratically elected by a majority of all of it's citizens, including the ones in Northern Ireland. That means any money raised in aid of the IRA is being used to fight a democratic government.

Dialogue is the answer, people need to sit down and sort out their differences that way, if you chose the other way and use the sword, you must be prepared to die by it. Maybe when Bin Laden is caught he'll realise this, I doubt it but you can always live in hope.

We are all human, regardless of skin colour or religion. The world is big enough for all of us to live in.

 

[*Lazer*]

My father was born and raised in Ireland. He was very vocal about the 800 year history of conflict between England and Ireland. He did not however support or fund the IRA with money or encouragement. Most of the other many family members and friends I had contact with growing up felt the same. They were of the opinion that it was killing hope and raising children with the stench of destruction. Their hope was that a peaceful resolution would be found. I watched the faces of the children being led through the crowds a few weeks ago in Northern Ireland. I was saddened to think yet another generation is being taught to hate. I believe it is a moral imperative to defuse these types of cell groups whatever their orgin or purpose. I know that each group thinks they have a holy or noble mission. The reality is that it is criminal activity with a profit extracted all too often from the innocent. So no I do not want you to contribute to hate groups. It demeans you to even ask the question.

 

[Styphon]

Originally posted by delite
Britain's just want to here your president say that he believes it wrong for Americans to fund The IRA, What we do about them and other terrorist groups can wait until Old BIn head has been irradicated for ever and ever and god is death much too quick for that son of evil.
Hear Hear

killer muffin telling people to shut the fuck up just give's the impression (please note I have said the impression) that the death of british citizens is unimportant, and the concerns of brits who have been subject to terrorist bombs for decades, is also unimportant.]
Agreed

Please pray for my cousin when you pray for those in this terrible crisis, I still hope but it's fading. I pray for those this terrible act of inhummanity has touched.
god bless and keep them all.
My very best wishes for the safety of your cousin - God bless them one and all.

Styphon

 

[shadowsource]

Your problem -

is that the IRA is now affiliated with democratically elected ministers in the now-suspended Stormont, or Ulster parliament. After Clinton took over and helped facilitiate peace efforts (with Blair and the Irish Republic charging ahead fruitfully), Sinn Fein became pretty respectable. Fund raising for Real IRA and others who clearly don't see any utility in a negotiated peace has been rendered far more difficult here. Tyhe traditional hard-core IRA base supports the peace efforts, provided they continue. Do not forget that the IRA was dormant until Bloody Sunday showed that the enemy was not only Protestant racists and police personnel, but also the British Army. The modern Provos were effectively born in Derry.

Your problem is that, if the peace effort in Northern Ireland breaks down, and the Protestant radicals manage to kill enough Catholics, the violence could start again between the IRA and the Protestant terrorists and the RUC (Protestant-dominated police force). If this happens, broader support will be rekindled here for the IRA, and they will indeed raise money. That's a fact.

This is but one reason why Bush's rhetoric about stamping out all terrorism is fallacious bs. He merely wants to wipe out Middle Eastern terrorism. If this makes British folks not wish to support even this probably impossible effort to eliminate Middle Eastern terrorism, that's their business. We're all damned anyway.

Don't forget that the Zionist who killed 50 Muslims worshippers in their mosque a few years ago was a right-wing zealot from Baltimore, USA. Many of the Israeli settlers are from Brooklyn, and a good number of them are supporters of terror. I don't see any crackdown on them.

We all have our problems and contradictions. But we do have some laws that the UK doesn't have, regarding civil liberties, though Congress seems bent on burning them all this month.

 

[KillerMuffin]

I give the impression that I don't care about British citizens dying in terrorist attacks, I can see that, it's not true, but I can see it. I'm a reactionary at times. Styphon gives the impression that he not only doesn't care about what's recently happenend, but that he thinks we may have deserved it a little because we've, not one or two people, but the nation as a whole, condone IRA terrorism and that we finance it. I tend to get a little pissed off at not only being accused of a crime, but at being accused of doing something so heinous that I did not do. Fuck Styphon and the head cheese he rode in on.

Right now I don't think Bush has given much thought to the IRA, he's got a few other things on his mind, pardon our leader for not dropping everything to reassure the average Brit that we certainly don't condone terrorism from the IRA and that we don't condone the people who finance it. We've got a bit broader view of citizens who fund terrorism here because there are US citizens who fund terrorist groups of all sorts, not just the IRA. You are not an isolated problem. Klinghoffer is a very large problem for us.

However, I did take the time to write to my congressguys and demand they do something about this. Doubt it'll do any good, I believe they have me on "ignore."

 

[taffy5]

Can I point something out, i'm not against the IRA anymore than the protestant terrorists, they are both worthy of our scorn. The fund raising in America for the IRA or real IRA is fundamentally wrong, they are giving money to kill not only the protestant terrorists but innocent civilians, who they believe are expendable to further their cause.

I don't just think it's my problem if these idiots start the violence again, I think it's everyone's problem if they do.

The problems in Israel are beyond belief, they must learn to live together, there is no alternative but that. The biggest problem out there is that it is perfect for breeding racial hatred, they all hate each other so much that they cannot see that they are ruining another generation by their actions. How many Bin Laden's will come out of that mess?