Worthy of Being Called "Christians"

[Darkniciad]

It's organized religion. That's all you need to know. These people split off because they didn't like what their religion had become. A few years from now, a chunk of these people will run off and start their own splinter group because they don't like what this one has become.

It's been happening since the first caveman discovered that he could pretend to hear god and not have to actually work for the rest of his life.

Organized religion has only two states: Corrupt, and well on the way there. There are thousands of years of precedent to back that up.

How many more useful ways could they have spent the money on that billboard? They could have sent it to the orgaizations fighting to overturn the referendum. They could have helped poor gay couples deal with power of attorney and other matters to give them as many rights as possible with marriage now temporarily off the table.

Instead, they bought a billboard that says "Look at us! We're not like those other guys! Come check us out!"

 

[cloudy]

Cloud warrior, you know I adore every bit of your red-tinged ass, but why on earth are you quoting JBJ? I could go years without reading his shlock.

Don't make me come down there.

Ooh! How about....I'll promise not to quote him if you promise to come down here?

 

[Guest]

Ooh! How about....I'll promise not to quote him if you promise to come down here?

Works for me, baby!

 

[cantdog]

I don't understand what's so wrong with playing Christmas music around Christmas. Is it really so offensive? I'm Jewish and I love Christmas music. It's not like it makes me want to convert or anything. But i mean, if you're celebrating a Christian holiday, why not play Christian music?

I especially dig Handel's. Good soaring melodies.

 

[3113]

How many more useful ways could they have spent the money on that billboard? They could have sent it to the orgaizations fighting to overturn the referendum. They could have helped poor gay couples deal with power of attorney and other matters to give them as many rights as possible with marriage now temporarily off the table.

And you know that they spent no money on any of these things prior to the billboard...how?

I would appreciate facts to back those accusations. Otherwise, to me, you're just throwing shit for the sake of throwing shit--and you're making me think a lot less of you for it.

I'm not in favor of religious thinking either; and it infuriates me when religions stick their nose across that separation of church and state. But I recognize that not all religions are corrupt all the time and that religious ethics can motivate people to positive action. Sometimes it's the people in religions who are running the underground railroad or putting time into trying to get a referendum to pass (or in this case not pass). As for the billboard, it makes far more of a statement than "look at us!" It makes a very important statement that needs to be made: Christianity doesn't have to be anti-gay.

Given that branches of Christianity got the referendum passed with their efforts and money, it's a valid and important message. Ask Safe_Bet who's neighbors belonged to a Church that insisted everyone vote "Yes" on 8. There are plenty of folk out there that convinced that if they're Christian they have to vote against gays even if they don't feel it's right. This billboard is a way of saying to them, "Christian doesn't mean anti-gay."

Now you can bemoan the fact that so many people are sheep to their religion. That's the way it is and so long as we have a democracy where the majority rules, the majority's religion will, sadly, influence political policies. Which is why I, frankly, will take any help that we can get on this. If Christians know that they don't have to vote that way, then there may be a way to turn the majority our way.

So bravo for the billboard and it's message. If you don't want to see it that way, fine by me, but I think you're very wrong and missing the larger picture.

 

[john-the-author]

Around here, it's the artsy songs-- Mannheim Steamroller, and Harry Connick. It's just as irritating after the thirtieth iteration. I've managed to stay the hell out of almost every store this year.

I've gone up to managers and thanked them for not playing Xmas music!

I'm going to a Christmas concert tomorrow evening with Mason Williams and the Eugene Concert Choir. I'm sure they're going to be doing Christmas carols of various kinds. There will also be Renaissance stuff. And Mason Williams will be doing Classical Gas because he's kinda gotta.

 

[TE999]

I say bravo to those folks who have the guts to buck the judgmental trend in organized religon that decries everything modern or progressive as the devils work. How provincial and backward can you get?

I drive two hours every Xmas to see Mannheim Steamroller in Concert and have all their Xmas CD's. The old carols seem a tad dated compared to their music.

 

[Darkniciad]

And you know that they spent no money on any of these things prior to the billboard...how?

This billboard is a way of saying to them, "Christian doesn't mean anti-gay."

Who said they didn't? Don't put words in my mouth. I said the money spent on the billboard could have been put to a useful purpose, rather than a subversive recruitment drive. I have no idea what they've done regarding prop 8 other than stick up a billboard to capitalize on it.

As if any of the old guard denominations would look at anything one of these new non-denominational churches says as relevant. More likley, they're going to be offended by it.

Those who think for themselves and have their religion in their heart rather than in the frikkin' soaring cathedral with the stained glass windows and the hive mind already make decisions based upon their own convictions and morals. A billboard isn't going to phase even one of the drones, except to perhaps encourage them to spend more fighting to put it back on the ballot next time when the court strikes it down again.

Organized religion gave up "the benefit of the doubt" in prehistory. All the good work done by organized religion is done quietly, without fanfare, and usually because a member with a conscience shamed the higher-ups into it. Any time they start shouting from the rooftops ( or putting up billboards ), you can rest assured that there's far more to do with getting new pews by filling the old ones than helping anyone.

This bunch is a mega-church desperately trying to get off the ground so they can build a god stadium and get a syndicated Sunday show.

It's your warm and fuzzy moment, though. I'll leave you to it now.

 

[Guest]

I say bravo to those folks who have the guts to buck the judgmental trend in organized religon that decries everything modern or progressive as the devils work. How provincial and backward can you get?

I drive two hours every Xmas to see Mannheim Steamroller in Concert and have all their Xmas CD's. The old carols seem a tad dated compared to their music.

I've had students perform Mannheim Steamroller before. There is a nice arrangement of Stille Nacht that works quite well with my age group.

At first they fight it because it's not the usual thing they expect, then they adjust.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I guess it all depends on whether those Christians buy into 100% of what Paul of Tarsus wrote. He was human and flawed, and his letters showed it. If Christians can think for themselves and not blindly follow those Epistles, good for them. If not, well, that's where we get the prop 8 crowd. I'd like to ask those types what they think of the American Revolution or slavery? Paul would have condemned the former and condoned the latter. Doesn't say much for him.

 

[3113]

As if any of the old guard denominations would look at anything one of these new non-denominational churches says as relevant.

I didn't say they would. I don't expect what they're doing to change the hard-line fundies or those in charge of, say, the Mormon Church. But they could push a fence-sitting mormon from one side to the other. I don't believe there's any harm in trying, and it's worth a try. Small movements do gain momentum and sometimes work.

All it took, after all, to light the fire of the Civil Rights movement was the spark of one woman refusing to give up her seat on a bus. And the American revolution would have ended but for Thomas Paine Printing up "These are the times that try men's souls." That silly bit of printing inspired soldiers to stay in the army. People should try everything they can to strike sparks. Maybe one may catch.

Ironic that a writer would think that writing has no power at all--be it on a billboard or in a newspaper or in a book. A book and writing is what got Prop. 8 passed. It might well do the opposite as well.

It's your warm and fuzzy moment, though. I'll leave you to it now.

If you were going to leave me to it, you wouldn't have posted anything divisive in the first place. And it's not about my warm and fuzzies. It's about evidence. You offer none to back your accusations, and yes, they are accusations--you keep accusing these folk of bad motives with no proof at all. And yes, I do have proof to back my assumption that their motives might be good if not entirely pure. For example, where these people say they are holding their services. Its not in any god stadium. They don't, in fact, seem to have a church at all as a meeting place.

So if we're going to surmise every which way (where ever we please as you're doing), then I can as easily surmise that whatever money they raise for their church is going toward good deeds rather than building a god stadium or getting a tv show. Your only real argument that they are aiming for a god stadium is your assertion is that all religions go corrupt eventually...which makes no sense as there is no knowing if this group will last long enough to go corrupt so all that can be argued is what they're doing now. Call it warm and fuzzy, but I'm simply assuming innocence until someone proves guilt. So far, your proof is woefully lacking, and what I see of this church gives evidence that leans in the other direction.

So yes, I will stick with my position on this, thank you very much. And if you want to leave me to it, that would be very nice. Please do so in the future as well if you find that I'm going "Warm and fuzzy." It'll save us both time and energy.

 

[maggot420]

boobies

That's what i was thinking.