World First

[neonlyte]

Portugal today commissioned the first commercial Wave Electrical Generation machine. It is anchored off the shores of Northern Portugal delivering 750Kw to power 500 homes. A further 22 are to be installed over the next couple of years.

'Pelaris' consists of 4 long tubes, containing hydraulic rams, connected by pivot joints. As the long tubes rise and fall with the waves, the hydraulic rams move back and forth to generate power.

Simple really... took a Scottish designer, a low cost construction base on the Isle of Lewis, and a forward thinking Portuguese government to place the order

 

[rgraham666]

Nice.

Good to hear some positive news.

 

[impressive]

Very interesting!

 

[neonlyte]

Meanwhile... the UK is going to build new nuclear plants. Rather, the French company, EDF, is building them for us. British Energy, which owns the existing UK nuclear installations, has been sold to EDF, with Centrica, a UK energy supplier, taking a 25% stake and 25% of produced energy. This also must be a World First - the first time a sovereign nation has sold its entire nuclear operation to a foreign company. I guess that kills the debate over whether Britain should remain in the EU

 

[Belegon]

Portugal today commissioned the first commercial Wave Electrical Generation machine. It is anchored off the shores of Northern Portugal delivering 750Kw to power 500 homes. A further 22 are to be installed over the next couple of years.

'Pelaris' consists of 4 long tubes, containing hydraulic rams, connected by pivot joints. As the long tubes rise and fall with the waves, the hydraulic rams move back and forth to generate power.

Simple really... took a Scottish designer, a low cost construction base on the Isle of Lewis, and a forward thinking Portuguese government to place the order

What a great concept. Never heard of it before.

I think that if this proves to be anywhere close to cost-effective it would be a great idea for the west coast of the US.

No offense to you easterners, but those little foot-lappers you get when there aren't any storms are not what we would call waves out here.

 

[3113]

No offense to you easterners, but those little foot-lappers you get when there aren't any storms are not what we would call waves out here.

Dude! Totally! http://www.hawaiihighways.com/shaka.jpg

http://www.surfermag.com/photos/images/SURFER_Mavericks_47_5/0000000.jpg

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Hawai'i has been getting a good portion of its electricity from an OTEC plant (uses temperature differentials between the surface and the depths) for years. And we all know what kina wave dey get dere, bra!

 

[neonlyte]

Dude! Totally! http://www.hawaiihighways.com/shaka.jpg

http://www.surfermag.com/photos/images/SURFER_Mavericks_47_5/0000000.jpg

I don't think Pelaris will work in that last picture

 

[Weird Harold]

What a great concept. Never heard of it before.

I think that if this proves to be anywhere close to cost-effective it would be a great idea for the west coast of the US.

No offense to you easterners, but those little foot-lappers you get when there aren't any storms are not what we would call waves out here.

You haven't been reading much about alternative energy proposals then. Wave generators like those Portugal have been touted as the answer to the energy problem for several years now with proof-of concept installations in about five or six european countries.

The main problems to overcome seem to be dealing with heavy seas and getting the electricity to shore.

 

[SeaCat]

Well a Bravo is in order for Portugal.

I remember several years ago a company wanted to place multiple Shrouded Tidal Stream Generators in the Cape Cod Canal. These would have produced enough electricity to power Cape Cod, making the large power plant on the canal not needed.

The plan was shot down. Not because of potential hazards to shipping or polution. Instead it was shot down because the generators might chop up fish swimming through the canal.

Maybe now they will look into this plan once again. (Although I doubt it.)

Cat

 

[jomar]

Portugal today commissioned the first commercial Wave Electrical Generation machine. It is anchored off the shores of Northern Portugal delivering 750Kw to power 500 homes. A further 22 are to be installed over the next couple of years.

'Pelaris' consists of 4 long tubes, containing hydraulic rams, connected by pivot joints. As the long tubes rise and fall with the waves, the hydraulic rams move back and forth to generate power.

Simple really... took a Scottish designer, a low cost construction base on the Isle of Lewis, and a forward thinking Portuguese government to place the order

Google is exploring the idea of putting it's servers on a barge at sea and using wave power. They haven't gotten past the soggy data thing yet, though.

 

[neonlyte]

Google is exploring the idea of putting it's servers on a barge at sea and using wave power. They haven't gotten past the soggy data thing yet, though.

Oh... I thought they'd solved that problem. The servers look fine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPpt...rld-record-for-underwater-dining/offbeat-news

 

[DesertPirate]

I really hope this is a long term success. Sounds like an excellent start.

Related item, saw a story about a very different style of wind power turbine. Small, abut a yard in diameter and shaped like an elongated ball. They also have one twice the size. Much better looking that the large propellers, not as limited by wind speed, and very quiet. This is being done in the Netherlands.

 

[Belegon]

You haven't been reading much about alternative energy proposals then. Wave generators like those Portugal have been touted as the answer to the energy problem for several years now with proof-of concept installations in about five or six european countries.

The main problems to overcome seem to be dealing with heavy seas and getting the electricity to shore.

Actually, I know quite a bit about wind, hydroelectric (rivers), geo-thermal and nuclear. But this had somehow escaped my notice.

And bra, I hear surf reports every morning. So believe me, not everything gets mentioned everywhere.

I can tell you when eight foot swells are coming. But this was new to me.

 

[colddiesel]

Portugal today commissioned the first commercial Wave Electrical Generation machine. It is anchored off the shores of Northern Portugal delivering 750Kw to power 500 homes. A further 22 are to be installed over the next couple of years.

'Pelaris' consists of 4 long tubes, containing hydraulic rams, connected by pivot joints. As the long tubes rise and fall with the waves, the hydraulic rams move back and forth to generate power.

Simple really... took a Scottish designer, a low cost construction base on the Isle of Lewis, and a forward thinking Portuguese government to place the order

Two questions:-

Do you know what the capital cost/KW is? I have been looking in vain for it and particularly a comparasion with wind turbines.

1.5 KW per home ? is that enough.

 

[neonlyte]

Two questions:-

Do you know what the capital cost/KW is? I have been looking in vain for it and particularly a comparasion with wind turbines.

1.5 KW per home ? is that enough.

This article may help through some light on the cost, note the dates have moved from the dates cited. The USA signed an agreement with Portugal on 28th May 2008 to jointly monitor the output and performance of PELAMIS (my apology for previous mis-spelling). http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/04/ge_invests_in_o.html

The current project consists of three Pelamis arrays, producing an estimated annual 2.25Mw, although Portugal's domestic energy consumption is historically low, I believe it is safe to assume the three devices will be powering 500 homes.

The project is effectively guaranteed through Portugal's aggressive feed-in tariff policies. Leaving aside the political/economic questions of this approach, Portugal's is almost entirely dependent upon imported energy, save for hydro-generation. The country has taken the decision to reduce its dependence upon imported energy. Its policy is simple, use feed-in tariffs to guarantee a return on investment. Private capital funds most of Portugals wind turbines, I presume they intend the same with Wave and Solar generation. However, there are caveats, in so much as they require manufacturing facilities for these renewable energy systems in Portugal, a policy that ensures at least some of the capital expenditure remains in Portugal with an opportunity to export technology. Portugal already boasts Europes largest Photo-Voltaic manufacturing plant to supply to supply the huge commercial solar generation schemes in construction in the south. As yet, domestic renewable energy in Portugal is in its infancy. I expect this to change in the next two years with regulation stipulating minimum renewable energy requirements for new construction. Currently, some one thousand engineers are receiving specialised training in the design, installation and certification of renewable energy to ensure an adequate resource of specialists when the regulations come into force.

Not everyone will agree with this approach, time will tell whether or not it was the right call. Incidently, my electricity costs slightly more than the European average.

 

[colddiesel]

This article may help through some light on the cost, note the dates have moved from the dates cited. The USA signed an agreement with Portugal on 28th May 2008 to jointly monitor the output and performance of PELAMIS (my apology for previous mis-spelling). http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/04/ge_invests_in_o.html

The current project consists of three Pelamis arrays, producing an estimated annual 2.25Mw, although Portugal's domestic energy consumption is historically low, I believe it is safe to assume the three devices will be powering 500 homes.

The project is effectively guaranteed through Portugal's aggressive feed-in tariff policies. Leaving aside the political/economic questions of this approach, Portugal's is almost entirely dependent upon imported energy, save for hydro-generation. The country has taken the decision to reduce its dependence upon imported energy. Its policy is simple, use feed-in tariffs to guarantee a return on investment. Private capital funds most of Portugals wind turbines, I presume they intend the same with Wave and Solar generation. However, there are caveats, in so much as they require manufacturing facilities for these renewable energy systems in Portugal, a policy that ensures at least some of the capital expenditure remains in Portugal with an opportunity to export technology. Portugal already boasts Europes largest Photo-Voltaic manufacturing plant to supply to supply the huge commercial solar generation schemes in construction in the south. As yet, domestic renewable energy in Portugal is in its infancy. I expect this to change in the next two years with regulation stipulating minimum renewable energy requirements for new construction. Currently, some one thousand engineers are receiving specialised training in the design, installation and certification of renewable energy to ensure an adequate resource of specialists when the regulations come into force.

Not everyone will agree with this approach, time will tell whether or not it was the right call. Incidently, my electricity costs slightly more than the European average.

Thanks for this information. I was in Lewis on holiday a few years ago and had this project explained to me by someone who had worked on it. He was basically complaining about lack of interest in the UK where he said they were only interested in big budget projects. I had forgotten about it. It's good to see they have at least got a large trial off the ground.

 

[impressive]

What fascinates me is the potential for implementation of such technologies for distributed power (i.e., generating the power where it's needed, on the spot). There are so many potential places to capture energy in a typical household -- heat from compressors (air conditioners, refrigerators) & other appliances (hot water heaters, dishwasher coils, even those little transformers on various electronics), flushing toilets & other plumbing, etc.

This wouldn't solve the problem in its entirety, but it would lessen the draw on the grid and leave the centralized systems to power the big stuff -- our banking systems, hospitals, etc.

 

[Weird Harold]

Actually, I know quite a bit about wind, hydroelectric (rivers), geo-thermal and nuclear. But this had somehow escaped my notice.

And bra, I hear surf reports every morning. So believe me, not everything gets mentioned everywhere.

I can tell you when eight foot swells are coming. But this was new to me.

The desert isn't a real hot-spot for wave (or water) related technologies as local interest items. I was just surprised that your interest in alternative technologies hadn't turned up this particular technology because it's been prominant in altarnative energy discussions on the web.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

What a great concept. Never heard of it before.

I think that if this proves to be anywhere close to cost-effective it would be a great idea for the west coast of the US.

No offense to you easterners, but those little foot-lappers you get when there aren't any storms are not what we would call waves out here.

Yeah, but what happens when it's 95 degrees out and the ocean is flat?

What happens when investors locating a new factory discover that not infrequently they'll have to shut down their billion dollar investment because it's not wavy enough? Or alternatively, that the power will cost 20 or 40 percent more so the utility can construct back-up plants that sit idle 80 percent of the time? (Answer: They send their execs to Berlitz to learn Chinese . . .)

~~~~

OK, I don't want to just be snarky. Here's the real issue with all these "renewables" that essentially require a conventional generator as backup: What's the point? To reduce oil, gas or coal consumption? Well OK, but isn't sustainability a huge reason for doing this? So where's the sustainability in that? You still need oil, gas or coal.

Lets say the back-up system is a nuke. A nuke capable of generating just as much power as the so-called "renewable." What's the point of the renewable in that instance? Just to be able to say that you're doing it?

I think the problem is a lack of understanding regarding the nature of industrial civization's energy demands, both the magnitude and the need for it to be steady and constant. Thinking in terms of your single household does not give you a correct view - sure, you can run the washing machine at night, and avoid turning on the AC between the peak hours of 3 and 7 pm, and lots of other little things like that. But an entire civilizsational infrastructure cannot go on holiday for hours or days or even weeks at a time.

Folks, we're not going to abandon industrial civiliation. For starters 90 percent of us would die without it. Beyond that, none of us would want to live without the comforts, conveniences and broadened horizons it permits. So we really need to be a lot more serious in our thinking about these things, and plan with an eye to the big picture, rather than enthusiastically jumping on board every boutique alternative energy proposal.

Prediction: Portugal's electricity cost will become uncompetitive if it does this in a big way, with unemployment, falling living standards and emigration the consequence. (But don't listen to me - I was probably one of those ostriches warning that letting Fannie grow like Topsy with no supervision or standards would cause problems in the future.)

 

[neonlyte]

Yeah, but what happens when it's 95 degrees out and the ocean is flat?

What happens when investors locating a new factory discover that not infrequently they'll have to shut down their billion dollar investment because it's not wavy enough? Or alternatively, that the power will cost 20 or 40 percent more so the utility can construct back-up plants that sit idle 80 percent of the time? (Answer: They send their execs to Berlitz to learn Chinese . . .)

~~~~

OK, I don't want to just be snarky. Here's the real issue with all these "renewables" that essentially require a conventional generator as backup: What's the point? To reduce oil, gas or coal consumption? Well OK, but isn't sustainability a huge reason for doing this? So where's the sustainability in that? You still need oil, gas or coal.

Lets say the back-up system is a nuke. A nuke capable of generating just as much power as the so-called "renewable." What's the point of the renewable in that instance? Just to be able to say that you're doing it?

I think the problem is a lack of understanding regarding the nature of industrial civization's energy demands, both the magnitude and the need for it to be steady and constant. Thinking in terms of your single household does not give you a correct view - sure, you can run the washing machine at night, and avoid turning on the AC between the peak hours of 3 and 7 pm, and lots of other little things like that. But an entire civilizsational infrastructure cannot go on holiday for hours or days or even weeks at a time.

Folks, we're not going to abandon industrial civiliation. For starters 90 percent of us would die without it. Beyond that, none of us would want to live without the comforts, conveniences and broadened horizons it permits. So we really need to be a lot more serious in our thinking about these things, and plan with an eye to the big picture, rather than enthusiastically jumping on board every boutique alternative energy proposal.

Prediction: Portugal's electricity cost will become uncompetitive if it does this in a big way, with unemployment, falling living standards and emigration the consequence. (But don't listen to me - I was probably one of those ostriches warning that letting Fannie grow like Topsy with no supervision or standards would cause problems in the future.)

I understand your points, Roxy. As I said in one of my posts, it is Portugal's decision, only the future will tell if it was the right decision. On Portugal's electricity prices: the renewable generation deals run on 20yr contracts, fixed feed-in tariff amortizing the capital investment and underwriting a return on investment. There is no reason for electricity prices to escalate during the contract period. Portugal is building 8 new huge part-pumped reservoirs to bolster hydro generation and act as the 'back-up' capacity when other renewables are under performing. Essentially, night-time wind and wave generation replenishes the reservoirs, in other words, this is a rounded national plan with all options ticked.

Portugal is a small country with a stable population (10m) with relatively low energy demands and abundant potential renewable generation. It receives the benefit of Atlantic waves, has the highest solar radiation / sq metre in Europe, and has sufficiently tall mountains virtually the length of the country to provide sites for wind generation. The electrical distribution grid has no huge distances to cross between population centres (and provides nesting sites for thousands of Storks). Portugal's alternative, other than nuclear, is to continue to import 85% of its energy needs. The current plan aims to produce 60% of its energy needs from renewables by 2020. It is a bold innitiative, relatively low risk in global terms given the population size, and may demonstrate the potential of renewables on a small nation scale.

It would be nice if you could, for once, recognise there may be alternative ways of managing things, or at the very least keep an open mind.

 

[Safe_Bet]

I don't know the details, but I do know that some types of wave powered generators also work off of tidal action. It only makes sense - any renewable resource that moves can ge harnessed to create power.