Working Women

[Hester]

Maybe NOT being married IS having your cake and eating it too?

ha! quite possible.

i was talking about a hypothetical "their" (other people) cake, not my own.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I admit I did not read the article, I am going by the posts im reading only.

I was once a professional woman in an upper managment postion making more money then the person i was involved with.

I got pregnant and there were many complications that caused me to leave the job (or lose the baby) and live on disability throughout most of my pregnancy. I still made more money then him.
I really did believe I was going back to work. He left the choice to me. 6 Months later i headed into work to fill out the im coming back paperwork, took one look around and one look at my baby and knew i was never going to come back to the job again.
In no way do I resent my children but I do sometimes resent having to squeeze money out of almost nothing when I am used to having all I need and then some.
Here is how it works in my house
Kids first
Bills, food second
Mommy gets the leftovers.
It is that way because I made the choice to live tight financially so that my kids can have the type of life I felt I had to give them.
Does the father of the kids use it against me or have a problem with it? Nope because we both had one goal that we agreed on and that was that the kids would be raised with mommy there 24/7 until they were old enough to fend for themselves so to speak.
So I guess what I am trying to say is i knew i didnt have it in me to do both (because mommy really is a full time job) and also knew what was important to me and their father, made the sacrifices (if you wanna call it that) and did what i had to.
I think that is how it works for most people. It is about priorites and we do what we have to do.

Sadly the marriage has not survived but it in no way had to do with working or not working or being discontent with life the way we set it up.

 

[Netzach]

This is just one more thing that makes me happy to say fuck you to a world that makes you feel like a freak if you don't make babies and fuck you to a world that makes you feel like a freak if you don't value some corporate job.

 

[saw_man1]

On a tangential note….

In my travels a couple of weeks ago I picked a magazine, the title of which I can not remember. In it was an article about Alpha women married to gamma men. The focus of the article was on how hard it is for men to accept a role in marriage that does not place them as the primary breadwinners. For examples they brought up the case of 4 women whose marriages mirrored that model. All the women fit the mold of a high powered high paid alpha female. All 4 husbands were not nearly as accomplished as their wives. The women talked about the pressures they felt from family, friends, and society. They went into great detail about how hard it was for their husbands to accept the state of affairs. All 4 marriages ended in divorce and all the women blamed the husbands for not being able to handle their success. None of the husbands were interviewed. One of the women had since remarried and quit her job to become a stay at home mom. The implication was that she did it to “please” her man. One other woman said that she would quit her job in a minute if she could find another man. My initial thought after reading the article was that the writer had a point to prove and sought out examples to prove that point. It struck me as odd that there were 4 examples of failed marriages and none of couples that were able to make it work.

I can not imagine how tough it must be to be a successful business woman. I guess we haven’t come as far as we like to think.

If I can think of the magazine I will post it here.

 

[brioche]

On CNN it said that in 29% of two income households the woman earns more than the man.

 

[chris9]

i think it's a bit more complex than the housework issue, although i do believe that plays a part. educated, financially able women know their power more, know they have more options, travel more, have more temptations and have the confidence that if caught they can survive on their own. less educated, more financially dependent women might be less likely to cheat or complain in a marriage because of concerns about their futures.

this all is not to say that there aren't women who can have their cake and eat it, too. apparently, though, statistically it's less likely than previously thought.

What I found remarkable was their quoting another study where not career but employment and marriage were the subject. They said something along the lines of when it's a good match/good marriage and both work they are likely to be happier, but when it's a bad match/bad marriage it more likely leads to divorce if both work than if only one works. I'm not certain anymore what the prerequisite was, and the link does not seem to be working anymore, but it sounds like proof for the financial dependence being a key factor.

 

[chris9]

wow. i won't get into how the presentation of those studies is a bit skewed (i'll leave that to the letter-to-the-editor writing types), but i will say no man in his right mind would marry me while i was working. i've made no secret that marriage isn't a priority of mine, but in the odd event i found a man i wanted to marry i'd give up my career and stay home and tend the home and my investments. *maybe* i'd take on some part-time consulting.

i fit into the "ultra-achieving" category and my career is where it is because i'm so focused and driven and insane about it. i can understand how this would totally fuck up a marriage, which is why i'd leave my career if i ever decided to get married---if i commit to something i need to make it my priority and i know this about myself. marriage would definitely fit into that category and there's no way i could honestly give both my career and my marriage the attention they deserve at the same time. i'm not wired that way. i am also lucky enough to be in a position where this is a choice for me.

that said, i've yet to encounter a man who would make me seriously consider a move like that and don't know if such a beast exists.

I know I would become very inactive, lazy, discontented with my life if I stayed at home for any length of time without children being in the equation.
I understand that for you this is different, and the very best to me is that we can make that choice, see what's best for oneself/one's partner/the relationship/the future.

 

[Hooper_X]

Sociologist generally agree that marriage actually benefits men more than women. Studies have shown married men to be healthier than their single counterparts and they tend to have greater satisfaction with life. For women, just the opposite is true. So, it comes as no surprise to me that high-achieving women, who don't need a man to support them financially, would be less inclined to marry in general, and far less inclined to settle in terms of what they would want in a mate.

 

[chris9]

As for men not wanting/being able to stand it if their women make more money:
I believe I'm noticing a change there. For my father and more especially his friends it would have been hard to accept. For my friends (none is 30 yet) it sounds from what they say like it would be easy.

 

[the captians wench]

So the only reason a woman should stay is because she financially dependent - forget happiness. Just stay because you have no other choice.

Doesn't this mean though - that when the man makes the decision to leave - it leaves the woman with nothing?

Was this post sarcasm?

I didn't work thru out the main part of my marriage. Infact I only started working when he had made the choice that it was about time to end the marriage. He worked hard to prepair me for my new life of supporting myslef, tho I did not know this at the time. I never wanted to work, and never had a set career other than to be the happy home maker. Now that i am on my own, and have been for almost 2 years, I've noticed a change in my attitude. I'm still not exactly persuing a career, but I am doing more things to bennifet myself insted of just looking for the next man to take care of me as I had thought I would end up. I still would drop my life in a heart beat at Master's command, but that's simply because a carrer out side the home has never been important to me. My experience has shown me that I can take care of myself, which was one of the main reasons I didn't want out of my marriage when things got bad. It was an issue. I was afraid that I would end up on the streets as I had not worked in 3 years and when I did it was never longer than 6 months. So yes, happiness was an issue, but survival was a bigger one. Had I been more financially stable ( I was still only working part time and we only owned one car so i had to rely on him to take me to work) then I probably would have left sooner. What makes you happy is not always what you have to do in order to live. You can't pay the bills with happiness.

 

[crazybbwgirl]

...snip... You can't pay the bills with happiness.

Boy - do those words speak volumes. Every teenager (especially female) in the world needs to hear those words AND your story. Your story is actually very much like mine was about a thousand (20) years ago.

 

[Hester]

I know I would become very inactive, lazy, discontented with my life if I stayed at home for any length of time without children being in the equation.
I understand that for you this is different, and the very best to me is that we can make that choice, see what's best for oneself/one's partner/the relationship/the future.

i've actually done it once. not for marriage but for cohabitation. i was really surprised at my level of happiness and contentment. it was a good lesson for me. but we're all different, which is one of the things that makes life so interesting.

 

[Hester]

I didn't work thru out the main part of my marriage. Infact I only started working when he had made the choice that it was about time to end the marriage. He worked hard to prepair me for my new life of supporting myslef, tho I did not know this at the time. I never wanted to work, and never had a set career other than to be the happy home maker. Now that i am on my own, and have been for almost 2 years, I've noticed a change in my attitude. I'm still not exactly persuing a career, but I am doing more things to bennifet myself insted of just looking for the next man to take care of me as I had thought I would end up. I still would drop my life in a heart beat at Master's command, but that's simply because a carrer out side the home has never been important to me. My experience has shown me that I can take care of myself, which was one of the main reasons I didn't want out of my marriage when things got bad. It was an issue. I was afraid that I would end up on the streets as I had not worked in 3 years and when I did it was never longer than 6 months. So yes, happiness was an issue, but survival was a bigger one. Had I been more financially stable ( I was still only working part time and we only owned one car so i had to rely on him to take me to work) then I probably would have left sooner. What makes you happy is not always what you have to do in order to live. You can't pay the bills with happiness.

i love to see how we all come from different viewpoints and experiences. i am quite the opposite to you. i am excessively independent and self-reliant, at one point almost militantly so. always have been. so much so that i think at times it's been to my detriment. i've had to learn how to allow others to care for me and help me and i had to learn that that's okay and it doesn't make me a weaker or lesser person, in fact that if done well can make me stronger and help me grow.

i can count on one hand the times i've truly allowed another person to take care of me and help me and/or to stay at home and take a nurturing role, but those experiences were really good for me and increased the intimacy in those relationships. it's not something i *have* to do, but rather something i chose to do in very special circumstances and if done right i get an awful lot out of it. but i think that's the difference---having the choice rather than feeling stuck.

 

[Netzach]

As for men not wanting/being able to stand it if their women make more money:
I believe I'm noticing a change there. For my father and more especially his friends it would have been hard to accept. For my friends (none is 30 yet) it sounds from what they say like it would be easy.

I've found that a lot of women, if you push them, secretly resent it when they do make more money. How many of those career women bitching in the articles have issues respecting anyone who makes less money than they do including their spouse?

 

[the captians wench]

i love to see how we all come from different viewpoints and experiences. i am quite the opposite to you. i am excessively independent and self-reliant, at one point almost militantly so. always have been. so much so that i think at times it's been to my detriment. i've had to learn how to allow others to care for me and help me and i had to learn that that's okay and it doesn't make me a weaker or lesser person, in fact that if done well can make me stronger and help me grow.

i can count on one hand the times i've truly allowed another person to take care of me and help me and/or to stay at home and take a nurturing role, but those experiences were really good for me and increased the intimacy in those relationships. it's not something i *have* to do, but rather something i chose to do in very special circumstances and if done right i get an awful lot out of it. but i think that's the difference---having the choice rather than feeling stuck.

I didn't really feel stuck until things got bad. I had made the choice not to work or learn a skill, go to school anything like that. I was living my dream at the time that the marriage started, but it ended in heartache and a feeling like I wouldn't be able to survive. I am still very much dependant on other people. I "need" almost constant praise to reasure me that I am doing things right, or that I am loved, special, pretty, what have you. But now I also know that I can make it on my own and I don't have to have some one taking care of me 24/7. I still, like I said, would drop my life in a heart beat to conform to what my love wanted, but it's a choice that I make because I want to, I no longer feel like I need to. If that makes any since. Having Master's suport every step of the way has helped too. There are certain things that I do need from other people, but I know now that I can survive with out another, if I have to.

 

[Hester]

I didn't really feel stuck until things got bad. I had made the choice not to work or learn a skill, go to school anything like that. I was living my dream at the time that the marriage started, but it ended in heartache and a feeling like I wouldn't be able to survive. I am still very much dependant on other people. I "need" almost constant praise to reasure me that I am doing things right, or that I am loved, special, pretty, what have you. But now I also know that I can make it on my own and I don't have to have some one taking care of me 24/7. I still, like I said, would drop my life in a heart beat to conform to what my love wanted, but it's a choice that I make because I want to, I no longer feel like I need to. If that makes any since. Having Master's suport every step of the way has helped too. There are certain things that I do need from other people, but I know now that I can survive with out another, if I have to.

i'm very glad to hear you are in a different place and things are working well for you

 

[Hester]

I've found that a lot of women, if you push them, secretly resent it when they do make more money. How many of those career women bitching in the articles have issues respecting anyone who makes less money than they do including their spouse?

are you sure the resentment is predominantly financial in nature?

 

[Etoile]

I find it interesting how some relationships incorporate work life into their dynamic, and some don't. I think it was Eb who said one of her slaves has complete autonomy in terms of work - that's an example of someone who doesn't incorporate it. And I know there are slaves whose masters won't let them work outside the home, that's the other end of it. Perhaps there are some who have autonomy to an extent but certain decisions must be consulted upon, or even just have orders followed. Very interesting indeed.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I find it interesting how some relationships incorporate work life into their dynamic, and some don't. I think it was Eb who said one of her slaves has complete autonomy in terms of work - that's an example of someone who doesn't incorporate it. And I know there are slaves whose masters won't let them work outside the home, that's the other end of it. Perhaps there are some who have autonomy to an extent but certain decisions must be consulted upon, or even just have orders followed. Very interesting indeed.

Yes I know a Mistress in Europe who made her slave sign over all his worldly good to his ex-wife upon taking him into her service. She is independently wealthy and she has made provision for the keeping of her slave if she dies before he does. he depends totally on her, and she has sent him to massage schools, etc, so that he has the skills that are important to her.

Not many people can live like that.

Eb

 

[Bandit58]

My ex husband and I ran a farm together, so that was my "job" - taking care of the business side of things, raising two kids, sometimes I was called on to help on the farm as well. When the marriage disintegrated after 23 years I had no skills (on paper that is) apart from a teacher aide certificate. I was working part time at the local school by then, but 12 hours a week does not all the bills pay so I was on the dole to top up my income. I also did six months work based training in an office. I was applying for jobs as well but no luck

I am now Master's full time carer, and get a government pension (He is on disability). I'm a nurse, secretary (and spell checker!), cook, laundress, financial wizard and anything else that crops up. I am not bored, far from it. We get to spend time together I'm learning new skills with the dialysis training, and hopefully we will be able to eventually do it at home. I have some free time to take care of myself as well, I'm going to a gym and having massages and facials (all at Master's instructions ).

I'm also saving the Australian government heaps of money, by taking care of Him at home instead of Him having to go into hospital (He lived alone before we met). So that is my job now, and I love it

 

[littlegirlslut]

Wow this is wonderful. Thank you everyone for the insight. I have to think on some things before responding because it's totally brought up more questions for me.