Women Only: Where are all the butches on Literotica?

[LadyAria]

I see a lot of post for girls who are and like lipsticks. However, where are all the sexy butchies hiding?

 

[revolution724]

Hmm... well, butch isn't the right word, exactly, but I have some masculine leanings. Soft butch? Andro? Dandy-wannabe? Well, whatever.

I tend to be more attracted to femmes, but of the non-princessy (even granola) variety - but I have been attracted to butch women from time to time. When I think of the term "lipstick lesbian," however, I think of the lesbian/bi equivalent of the girls with whom I could hardly exchange a complete sentence in high school, and I feel a bit nauseous.

But then, I wonder if the lack of butches/women posting about liking butches reflects a broader trend in the queer female community? In the 70's, butch (but with Rules attached) appeared to be the norm; now, femme-for-femme has taken over.

 

[Equinoxe]

There don't appear to be many; I've seen a few women identify as "butch" and there are a few who have more androgynous less traditionally feminine or masculine personae and appearances, but there are very few who seem to regard themselves as "butch".

I suspect that the nature of the site might have something to do with that, but there are a few authors who have expressed at least fondness for that paradigm and a few posters as I said. It may also be indicative of a greater trend in the community, such as it is; it seems to me, though I must admit I don't have the greatest frame of reference for these things, that that idea just isn't as prevalent.

 

[LadyAria]

Hmm... well, butch isn't the right word, exactly, but I have some masculine leanings. Soft butch? Andro? Dandy-wannabe? Well, whatever.

I tend to be more attracted to femmes, but of the non-princessy (even granola) variety - but I have been attracted to butch women from time to time. When I think of the term "lipstick lesbian," however, I think of the lesbian/bi equivalent of the girls with whom I could hardly exchange a complete sentence in high school, and I feel a bit nauseous.

But then, I wonder if the lack of butches/women posting about liking butches reflects a broader trend in the queer female community? In the 70's, butch (but with Rules attached) appeared to be the norm; now, femme-for-femme has taken over.

Soft butch? I never heard that before.

I wonder why it is more femme for femme now?

 

[LadyAria]

There don't appear to be many; I've seen a few women identify as "butch" and there are a few who have more androgynous less traditionally feminine or masculine personae and appearances, but there are very few who seem to regard themselves as "butch".

I suspect that the nature of the site might have something to do with that, but there are a few authors who have expressed at least fondness for that paradigm and a few posters as I said. It may also be indicative of a greater trend in the community, such as it is; it seems to me, though I must admit I don't have the greatest frame of reference for these things, that that idea just isn't as prevalent.

Maybe I'm not saying it right. Androgyny is good. Just less boobs and make up More short hair and athletic look...

 

[revolution724]

Soft butch = sort of masculine in dress, presentation, whatever, but a bit more feminine than a really strong ("hard") butch. Like a soft butch might have short hair and wear jeans most of the time, but will put on a dress from time to time or have a traditionally feminine hobby or something like that. Like all the labels, it's flexible in definition.

 

[Equinoxe]

Maybe I'm not saying it right. Androgyny is good. Just less boobs and make up More short hair and athletic look...

There we get into a interesting semantic area, relating in part to expectation and what is assumed. It would depend upon whether by androgynous we mean the more general "not feminine" or whether by androgynous we mean both feminine and masculine, or alternately, neither one nor the other. Our use of the term depends largely upon what we consider the starting base -- if we think that she is a woman with masculine characteristics and is therefore androgynous, by virtue of her inherent femininity (in being a woman) and her masculinity of personality and/or appearance or if we regard only those who more properly in personality and/or appearance possess characteristics that are both feminine and masculine, without presupposing inherent femininity by nature of her being a woman, as androgynous.

Being the internet, I would say that regarding individuals alluded to, it would be more "androgyny" (from a Western cultural perspective) in a psychological sense -- not having a personality or interests which are culturally considered particularly feminine.

I'm also slightly confused as to how breasts, or the quantity there of, necessarily fit in. That would seem a very narrow definition of "feminine".

All of that assumes a valid dipolar paradigm into which individuals neatly fit, anyhow.

Am I being sufficiently difficult?

I have no idea what most people here look like.

 

[LadyAria]

Soft butch = sort of masculine in dress, presentation, whatever, but a bit more feminine than a really strong ("hard") butch. Like a soft butch might have short hair and wear jeans most of the time, but will put on a dress from time to time or have a traditionally feminine hobby or something like that. Like all the labels, it's flexible in definition.

That sounds evolved. So, what are those traditionally feminine hobbies?

 

[LadyAria]

There we get into a interesting semantic area, relating in part to expectation and what is assumed. It would depend upon whether by androgynous we mean the more general "not feminine" or whether by androgynous we mean both feminine and masculine, or alternately, neither one nor the other. Our use of the term depends largely upon what we consider the starting base -- if we think that she is a woman with masculine characteristics and is therefore androgynous, by virtue of her inherent femininity (in being a woman) and her masculinity of personality and/or appearance or if we regard only those who more properly in personality and/or appearance possess characteristics that are both feminine and masculine, without presupposing inherent femininity by nature of her being a woman, as androgynous.

Being the internet, I would say that regarding individuals alluded to, it would be more "androgyny" (from a Western cultural perspective) in a psychological sense -- not having a personality or interests which are culturally considered particularly feminine.

I'm also slightly confused as to how breasts, or the quantity there of, necessarily fit in. That would seem a very narrow definition of "feminine".

All of that assumes a valid dipolar paradigm into which individuals neatly fit, anyhow.

Am I being sufficiently difficult?

I have no idea what most people here look like.

Androgyny to me means you have to take a second look to determine someone's gender. That is how the short hair and smaller breast works into the picture. My childhood best friend had long hair, but masculine features. So, I guess she could fit in that column too. So, I wasn't trying to be ridged in definition. Everything I say shouldn't be taken so literal. Androgyny can be alluring on both men and women depending on your personal preference.

You’re being difficult, but interesting. I like the fact your quick to point out my statement was very myopic in its definition of femininity. A woman is more then the sum of her physical features. Actually, as you point out, when conversing with someone in a text based medium, the personality is paramount.

Feisty...aren't you?

 

[Equinoxe]

Androgyny to me means you have to take a second look to determine someone's gender. That is how the short hair and smaller breast works into the picture. My childhood best friend had long hair, but masculine features. So, I guess she could fit in that column too. So, I wasn't trying to be ridged in definition. Everything I say shouldn't be taken so literal. Androgyny can be alluring on both men and women depending on your personal preference.

You’re being difficult, but interesting. I like the fact your quick to point out my statement was very myopic in its definition of femininity. A woman is more then the sum of her physical features. Actually, as you point out, when conversing with someone in a text based medium, the personality is paramount.

Feisty...aren't you?

That definition works well; although, I think we both agree it's a bit difficult to say on here whether or not it applies. One mustn't be too rigid, but taking things literally can be useful to illustrate a point. Furthermore, it is important to be specific -- if two people use the same word to mean different things the conversation can be misleading. These labels can be both quite complex and very imprecise, like our conversation so far has shown.

As for androgyny, personally I find it interesting although not necessarily attractive, in a sexual-romantic sense at least.

Thank you. Therein lies the crux of the matter, especially as far Lit is concerned. You largely have to rely on how the person self-identifies, which, as I said before, few here have made such self-identifications. Perhaps this thread will inspire some to do so, but perhaps not.

Feisty? I admit that word has been used to describe me before.

 

[LadyAria]

That definition works well; although, I think we both agree it's a bit difficult to say on here whether or not it applies. One mustn't be too ridged, but taking things literally can be useful to illustrate a point. Furthermore, it is important to be specific -- if two people use the same word to mean different things the conversation can be misleading. These labels can be both quite complex and very imprecise, like our conversation so far has shown.

As for androgyny, personally I find it interesting although not necessarily attractive, in a sexual-romantic sense at least.

Thank you. Therein lies the crux of the matter, especially as far Lit is concerned. You largely have to rely on how the person self-identifies, which, as I said before, few here have made such self-identifications. Perhaps this thread will inspire some to do so, but perhaps not.

Fesity? I admit that word has been used to describe me before.

Isn't that the folly of all language? One word can hold different meanings depending on your persception of the world. It's a wonder we can communicate with each other at all.

Yes, self identifying can be tricky true. We all know how honest everyone is on the internet *snicker*.

Feisty is a good character trait to have.

 

[Equinoxe]

Isn't that the folly of all language? One word can hold different meanings depending on your persception of the world. It's a wonder we can communicate with each other at all.

Yes, self identifying can be tricky true. We all know how honest everyone is on the internet *snicker*.

Feisty is a good character trait to have.

This is true, that is very much part and parcel of language.

Yes, that fabled internet honesty.

I'm pleased to hear it.

 

[hellomimi]

thank you so much for this thread!

i thought i start with this:
i'm a 24 yo woman who feels all people are sexual and therefore, cannot classify herself. i love big butch dykes i love it all! and i must admit; your conversation was not sexual at all, but i was very aroused by your exchange.

i used to be very "butchy" and i'm SURE there's lots of those who still think i am. i dress and act in a very "masculine" way. i'm not, in any way masculine but my actions are taken as that. it's because culturally almost everyone in the world will agree that "men are aggressive, women are passive" it may not be at all true, but it is the model we've been shown by a straight society. when i behave not only with authority but conviction, it is often mistaken for "maleness"

most people cannot conceive of a woman who is strong and powerful without equating it to masculinity. i am confident and self-assured. most people do not envision femininity as including either of those things. (which is sad)

so i guess my point is, i think butch women are like flaming fags. they are taking what was told could never be theirs, and making it so. no one can tell us who we are and butch has long been a way to deny conventional roles. i now choose no role. i will not play into that, and i think it's why we've seen the decline of the butch.

butch became its own role that was being foisted upon us. i've seen dykes tell each other they're not "____" enough, and to me that seems sad and hypocritical. i think we've truly come to sexual liberation in saying the roles we created as alternatives are no better. roles will always be inadequate.

 

[ima6uldv8]

I don't know where I would fit in here. I hate dresses. I wear jeans and t shirts most of the time. I don't wear makeup but I do get my nails done every two weeks. I don't have super short hair at all. I love shopping. I also love my Harley Davidson boots. I've always been a tomboy. I don't like labeling people. I just say I'm leather and lace.

 

[SadieRose]

I don't know where I would fit in here. I hate dresses. I wear jeans and t shirts most of the time. I don't wear makeup but I do get my nails done every two weeks. I don't have super short hair at all. I love shopping. I also love my Harley Davidson boots. I've always been a tomboy. I don't like labeling people. I just say I'm leather and lace.

I'm with you on that one. As a teenager I was a tomboy and very into the boy/andro look but I've always been the wrong shape for it totally (V. Curvaceous) and it's taken me this long to adapt to that. I still wear jeans and trousers most of the time and DMs and consider myself to be the "butch" in any G/G relationship. For most of my adult life I've been known to friends and colleagues by a male name and they are all quite used to that but I have long hair and I love shoes and earrings too! I think that we live in a times where the labels are not so necessary so a woman can attract other women just by being herself and not by having to live up to some 'image'.

Which is good.

hellomimi is right that if a woman asserts herself she is seen to be very male and threatening. I've been assertive since my early twenties (I was bullied as a child and never intend to let that happen again) but many people have since told me that I can be intimidating (I would never have imagined myself capable of being so!) when I first encounter someone new. My friends can deal with it but new men especially find it hard to handle.

Sadie

 

[hellomimi]

i agree "intimidating" is often used to intimidate assertive women. we're told we can't be effeminite and in charge what a pity

 

[Nirvanadragones]

good question...

I for one would like to think that we all have a little butchness/androgyny (call it what you may) in us, or is that perhaps wishful thinking ?! It’s part of our sexuality and what separates us from the masses…

Oh and also – I think being butch or femme is more of an attitude (also expressed in our mannerisms and style etc)

I am a switch – depends who I am with – depends on the situation/ circumstances.

 

[revolution724]

That raises an interesting question about the intersection of gender expression and sexual orientation. I'm not sure that I would necessarily equate androgyny and butchness; the latter seems explicitly masculine, whereas androgyny may be both masculine and feminine, or it may be neither, something else altogether. But certainly an element of femininity in the most commonly accepted sense is sexual participation with or attraction to or attractiveness to males.

I've always felt like a bit of an "other" sex, frankly; socialized as female, yet not feeling a kinship with other females who are more stereotypical in gender expression, and yet not really "tomboyish" (which suggests "sporty" to me, which I am decidedly not) or guy-like in any stereotypical sense either (maybe a tiny bit in the computer/sci-fi geek sense) - hence, my hedging about whether to identify as a "soft butch" or strictly androgynous. Is it related to being a lesbian? It doesn't feel directly so, but it cannot be denied that there's a significant overlap of masculinity in women and sexual attraction to other women.

On a different note, I agree with the earlier poster who observed that even though the interchange between LadyAria and Equinoxe was not explicitly sexual, it was somehow very sexy. Woo!

 

[cellis]

I for one would like to think that we all have a little butchness/androgyny (call it what you may) in us, or is that perhaps wishful thinking ?! It’s part of our sexuality and what separates us from the masses…

Oh and also – I think being butch or femme is more of an attitude (also expressed in our mannerisms and style etc)

I am a switch – depends who I am with – depends on the situation/ circumstances.

I think this is a true statement. To a certain extent we all git somewhere in the wide spectrum that in my mind runs from extreme "butch" or bois to extreme "femme" or what I like to think of as the grly grlys...

I consider myself to be a femme and am attracted to femmes... but that is just me.

Oh and earlier someone, Lady Aria, I think asked where all the butches were. They are here... I know a few of them myself.

 

[Never]

I am a raging BRONCO of butchness. I'm so butch girls worry about getting pregnant when sleeping with me. Now, that's butch.

 

[cellis]

I am a raging BRONCO of butchness. I'm so butch girls worry about getting pregnant when sleeping with me. Now, that's butch.

Hello Darlin'

Nice to see you here.

 

[Guest]

here here!

Someone called? Soft butch here

 

[Guest]

i dont have nothing more to say just

I for one would like to think that we all have a little butchness/androgyny (call it what you may) in us, or is that perhaps wishful thinking ?! It’s part of our sexuality and what separates us from the masses…

Oh and also – I think being butch or femme is more of an attitude (also expressed in our mannerisms and style etc)

I am a switch – depends who I am with – depends on the situation/ circumstances.

The more i read your threads the more i like you. Will you marry me?

 

[killallhippies]

i'm just posting in this thread because the thread starter said women only.

 

[Never]

I am so butch, the only way I can increase my butchness is to devour the souls of other butches.

Harsh but true.