Woman applies for gun permit, is stabbed to death by ex while waiting

[LJ_Reloaded]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...hile-waiting-for-nj-to-allow-her-to-have-one/

Carol Bowne no longer felt safe.

The 39-year-old hairdresser from Berlin Township, New Jersey, was afraid that her ex-boyfriend might try to hurt her. Fearing possible domestic violence, she reportedly filed a restraining order against her ex, installed security cameras and tried to get a gun for self-defense.

But New Jersey’s gun law are notoriously draconian, and the process to merely obtain a handgun permit takes months.

Bowne was found by law enforcement stabbed to death in her driveway on Wednesday night. Her ex-boyfriend, identified as Michael Eitel, 45, has since been arrested and charged with murder.

Applied for gun permit
gun permit was delayed
installed a surveillance system

still got killed.


Okay so who's AGAINST fast tracking gun permits for people like this? And allowing them to carry their weapons outside the home?

I mean, dude did have a rap sheet already. Fucking ay. New Jersey get your shit in order.

 

[pointless]

should've just got a shotgun.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

should've just got a shotgun.

Actually, you can't buy a shotgun without a firearm purchaser permit AND a Handgun purchase permit (if you're buying a pistol) in NJ. Also, having a permit to own a handgun probably wouldn't have saved her since she was killed outside of her home and it's almost impossible to get a concealed carry license in NJ. Even if she DID own a handgun she wouldn't have been carrying it and she still would have died in her driveway with the gun safely in her safe inside.

She also probably shouldn't have dated a felon with a long wrap sheet.

Getting a permit to purchase is easy compared to getting a concealed permit (which is near impossible unless you have a damn good reason).

The process doesn't take that long. I obtained both my firearm purchase ID card and handgun purchaser permit in less than a month. I much prefer this to the requirements of "a NASCAR T-shirt and a pick-up truck".

 

[ryan8558]

She should've moved to Texas

http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/32/22/53/6892276/3/622x350.jpg

 

[SinInMe]

... or she could've hired the thoughtful dudes posting here as a team of bodyguards --of course, she might've been shot in the crossfire while they blazed away at anyone funny actin'.

 

[oddity83]

Oregon has the instant check, which is your drivers license, thumb prints and a call to the state police.Stories like that are why glad we have it.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

She should've moved to Texas

http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/32/22/53/6892276/3/622x350.jpg

Hate to say it but maybe Texas has a point.

Although Texas is full of shit in other ways:
http://gawker.com/texas-says-its-ok-to-shoot-an-escort-if-she-wont-have-s-511636423

 

[Sean Renaud]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...hile-waiting-for-nj-to-allow-her-to-have-one/

Applied for gun permit
gun permit was delayed
installed a surveillance system

still got killed.


Okay so who's AGAINST fast tracking gun permits for people like this? And allowing them to carry their weapons outside the home?

I mean, dude did have a rap sheet already. Fucking ay. New Jersey get your shit in order.

New Jersey's laws are fucked up. Most of the country isn't quite that bad. But yes I'm still against fast tracking gun permits for people.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

New Jersey's laws are fucked up. Most of the country isn't quite that bad. But yes I'm still against fast tracking gun permits for people.

They aren't actually all that bad. You want to buy a firearm (or ammunition), go to your local police station and get a purchaser ID. You want a handgun, get a handgun permit. Easy. It took me less than a month to get everything settled. She must have had some sketchy shit on her record for it to be delayed.

If you already OWN a firearm and move into NJ you don't have to do anything, registration is voluntary. At least until you want to buy ammunition, then you need the aforementioned firearm purchaser ID.

The only real problem is trying to get a concealed carry permit. They don't recognize permits from any other states and they are a "may issue" state, meaning you need a damn good reason to want a concealed carry permit.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

New Jersey's laws are fucked up. Most of the country isn't quite that bad. But yes I'm still against fast tracking gun permits for people.

Okay so how would you have prevented this stabbing murder? Keep her indoors and have a robot go outside and do her work?

 

[BotanyBoy]

New Jersey's laws are fucked up. Most of the country isn't quite that bad. But yes I'm still against fast tracking gun permits for people.

CA is just as bad if not worse....with regard to gun/self defense laws anyhow.

If you manage to get a gun and want to legally own it you practically have to make the thing un-fuckin' usable and god forbid you ever need it because if you don't lay down and take it in the ass from whatever bad juju is coming at you while you wait on the cops they will prosecute you into the gas chamber and sue your fuckin' balls into oblivion by the time it's all done.

Okay so how would you have prevented this stabbing murder? Keep her indoors and have a robot go outside and do her work?

You call teh po po and wait 3 hrs for them to come haul you and your family off to the morgue and file the paper work. THANK THE LIBURHULZ!!

 

[Palamino19]

There is a police statistic, which was first noted in England, if memory serves me correctly, that has held true for many decades.

It shows that, within 21 feet, in altercations between someone with a gun and someone with a knife, the knife is more often fatal. There are a variety of reasons, including the difficulty of getting to the gun, the dangerous nature of knives even when they aren't pointed directly at you, and the the fact that knife wounds are heinous.

Anyway, knives are often better suited to the most common self defense situations in states where you can use them, imo.

 

[BotanyBoy]

There is a police statistic, which was first noted in England, if memory serves me correctly, that has held true for many decades.

It shows that, within 21 feet, in altercations between someone with a gun and someone with a knife, the knife is more often fatal. There are a variety of reasons, including the difficulty of getting to the gun, the dangerous nature of knives even when they aren't pointed directly at you, and the the fact that knife wounds are heinous.

Anyway, knives are often better suited to the most common self defense situations in states where you can use them, imo.

Tell you what I'mma put a 6" folder in your back pocket and give you the alleged advantage of 8 feet I want you to get at me. BTW I'm starting with an M4 aimed right at your head ready to turn it into a canoe with a 4lb squeeze snapping like an icicle ......

The 21 foot rule is a matter of speed vs reaction....your weapon choice is really irrelevant.

Situational awareness & attention to detail = everything...with them you can absolutely out train the 21ft 'rule'.

It's not the weapon, it's the person who wields it.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Tell you what I'mma put a 6" folder in your back pocket and give you the alleged advantage of 8 feet I want you to get at me. BTW I'm starting with an M4 aimed right at your head ready to turn it into a canoe with a 4lb squeeze snapping like an icicle ......

The 21 foot rule is a matter of speed vs reaction....your weapon choice is really irrelevant.

Situational awareness & attention to detail = everything...with them you can absolutely out train the 21ft 'rule'.

It's not the weapon, it's the person who wields it.

Very realistic scenario you laid out there...

Everyone walks around with an M4 aimed at every person's head who may possibly be a threat.

 

[Palamino19]

Tell you what I'mma put a 6" folder in your back pocket and give you the alleged advantage of 8 feet I want you to get at me. BTW I'm starting with an M4 aimed right at your head ready to turn it into a canoe with a 4lb squeeze snapping like an icicle ......

The 21 foot rule is a matter of speed vs reaction....your weapon choice is really irrelevant.

Situational awareness & attention to detail = everything...with them you can absolutely out train the 21ft 'rule'.

It's not the weapon, it's the person who wields it.

Your first example is simply unrealistic in self defense terms. It is incredibly rare for self defense situations to begin at such a range with the target of the attack being aware of the attack. And a folder? Seriously?

On the 21 foot thing, not rule, simply the distance at which, statistically, the knife has been deadlier for decades, that stat includes police facing knives, and the weapon does make a huge difference. If the distance can be closed, and most self defense situations begin when it is, then a non-folder is extremely dangerous and, as most experts will say, notoriously dangerous to try to grab, moreso than a gun for obvious reasons.

As for your claim, I'm familiar with a number of people who teach this stuff, to both civilians and the police as well as military, and not one of the most noted names ever claims that situational awareness can actually solve the problem in all cases, though is important to mitigating it when possible. All agree that a true predator sometimes gets to dictate the terms.

Irrespective, the statistic includes trained professionals, criminals, and civilians, and for decades, has held to be true. You are right, training makes some difference, but since range shooting (nor duelling style knife work) is not the kind of training that counts for the vast majority of self defense situations, most gun owners do not have the ideal weapon for the job, or the kind of mindset required to remain cool and actually use their weapon in a real situation.

And no, the weapon makes a huge difference. A rifle is absolutely useless for the vast majority of self defense situations, it simply is not the tool for that job, it is meant for other situations entirely.

 

[Palamino19]

I just noticed something. You are claiming that the weapon makes no difference, it's only the speed versus reaction, but that would mean that people with knives are statistically faster than people with guns, and have been so for decades?

Really?

So if gun owners start carrying knives, then their inherent slowness would change the statistic, and guns would be deadlier in those ranges?

Really?

I...I...I cannot continue...

 

[sr71plt]

... or she could've hired the thoughtful dudes posting here as a team of bodyguards --of course, she might've been shot in the crossfire while they blazed away at anyone funny actin'.

Yeah, they could have mowed them down with tough-guy words.

 

[Sean Renaud]

CA is just as bad if not worse....with regard to gun/self defense laws anyhow.

If you manage to get a gun and want to legally own it you practically have to make the thing un-fuckin' usable and god forbid you ever need it because if you don't lay down and take it in the ass from whatever bad juju is coming at you while you wait on the cops they will prosecute you into the gas chamber and sue your fuckin' balls into oblivion by the time it's all done.



You call teh po po and wait 3 hrs for them to come haul you and your family off to the morgue and file the paper work. THANK THE LIBURHULZ!!

It wasn't overly difficult for me to get it. Even my CCW (which I stupidly let expire and since I'm not in security I'm not paying the money to start it all over again.)

Honestly I'll thank the liberals. I'd rather fewer guns than the rare time your gun is useful in a self defense scenario. It's not like even then that I carried 24/7. And at the time there were kids in the house so I had to keep it locked up or at least out of reach. The amount of time it would have taken me to get it would probably be too long. I'd have to look up the numbers but I'm pretty sure in 2014 six year old children were more dead to Americans than goddamn ISIS.

There is a police statistic, which was first noted in England, if memory serves me correctly, that has held true for many decades.

It shows that, within 21 feet, in altercations between someone with a gun and someone with a knife, the knife is more often fatal. There are a variety of reasons, including the difficulty of getting to the gun, the dangerous nature of knives even when they aren't pointed directly at you, and the the fact that knife wounds are heinous.

Anyway, knives are often better suited to the most common self defense situations in states where you can use them, imo.

No, the knife is not more dangerous within 21 feet. That's a common misconception. First the officer who invented the rule admits that it wasn't meant to be used the way it is where cops basically use it as an excuse to shoot people. Second it's not that the knife is more deadly it's that you basically have even odds of getting killed yourself. The other guy is fucked, you have a gun but at less than 21 feet he's likely to close the distance and stab you before going down.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Very realistic scenario you laid out there...

Everyone walks around with an M4 aimed at every person's head who may possibly be a threat.

I made it unrealistic to make an example....

Your first example is simply unrealistic in self defense terms. It is incredibly rare for self defense situations to begin at such a range with the target of the attack being aware of the attack.

That's simply because most people walk around with their head planted firmly up their ass.

And a folder? Seriously?

They will get the job done....I promise.

On the 21 foot thing, not rule, simply the distance at which, statistically, the knife has been deadlier for decades, that stat includes police facing knives, and the weapon does make a huge difference. If the distance can be closed, and most self defense situations begin when it is, then a non-folder is extremely dangerous and, as most experts will say, notoriously dangerous to try to grab, moreso than a gun for obvious reasons.

It's a rule in the profession because of the statistic....like getting the fuck out of doorways/windows as not to silhouette oneself because bad juju is more likely to land accurate shots, not it's not a 'rule' but it's a fuckin' rule.

Keep a close eye 21ft out minimum or risk the consequences.

As for your claim, I'm familiar with a number of people who teach this stuff, to both civilians and the police as well as military, and not one of the most noted names ever claims that situational awareness can actually solve the problem in all cases, though is important to mitigating it when possible. All agree that a true predator sometimes gets to dictate the terms.

Hi I've been an instructor at more than one military school and consulted with more than a few major metro PD's and SWAT teams.

It' won't solve everything in every case, but I'll be damned if it doesn't prevent the vast VAST majority of 1st world victimization. The greatest self defense move anyone can make is spreading their butt cheeks and pulling their head out.

Irrespective, the statistic includes trained professionals, criminals, and civilians, and for decades, has held to be true. You are right, training makes some difference, but since range shooting (nor duelling style knife work) is not the kind of training that counts for the vast majority of self defense situations, most gun owners do not have the ideal weapon for the job, or the kind of mindset required to remain cool and actually use their weapon in a real situation.

Training makes a HUGE difference.....most most and most...you're right most people aren't mentally or physically equipped for reacting in a self defense situation.

That doesn't make a knife inside 21ft a winner, it just means most sheeple are complacent as fuck in their personal security.

And no, the weapon makes a huge difference. A rifle is absolutely useless for the vast majority of self defense situations, it simply is not the tool for that job,

LMFAO!!! only because it's shunned to roll RedCon1 in the 1st world industrialized western society...in reality a high caliber SBR (I like the .458) with reflexive sights is the ULTIMATE self defense weapon surpassed only by an SBS. Pistols and knives are last resort weapons of desperation used to secure a rifle or shotty.

it is meant for other situations entirely.

Do tell I would like to hear what it's meant for....LOL

I just noticed something. You are claiming that the weapon makes no difference, it's only the speed versus reaction, but that would mean that people with knives are statistically faster than people with guns, and have been so for decades?

Really?

Really...inside 21ft more often than not I can employ a knife faster than some 95+% of average folks can get their concealed side arm in the game. You said it yourself.

So if gun owners start carrying knives, then their inherent slowness would change the statistic, and guns would be deadlier in those ranges?

Really?

I...I...I cannot continue...

Now you're just being a fuckin' retard....

 

[Sean Renaud]

Given that murders are very rarely random at all, in over 75% of cases it's someone you know. If you let someone get within 21 feet of you without pulling your gun if you have it you kinda deserve what happens. I can't imagine someone who would want to kill me and I didn't have some clue that this is not the motherfucker to let near me because he plans to murder me.

Rifles are shitty for self defence because of their size making them impractical to carry and depending on the range your at simply slower than a handgun would be. Not to mention sure a rifle (depending on the caliber) is great up where you live where there's nobody around. I live in an actual urban area. If I miss my target, unlikely but not impossible, that round is going straight through a window and into someones house all but gauranteed. Which is a large part of why actual cities tend to be stricter about that kind of thing.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

I made it unrealistic to make an example....

You might as well have said that you had a personal force field and a shoulder mounted autocannon.

 

[BotanyBoy]

It wasn't overly difficult for me to get it. Even my CCW (which I stupidly let expire and since I'm not in security I'm not paying the money to start it all over again.)

Honestly I'll thank the liberals. I'd rather fewer guns than the rare time your gun is useful in a self defense scenario. It's not like even then that I carried 24/7. And at the time there were kids in the house so I had to keep it locked up or at least out of reach. The amount of time it would have taken me to get it would probably be too long. I'd have to look up the numbers but I'm pretty sure in 2014 six year old children were more dead to Americans than goddamn ISIS.

I didn't even try....I already know the answer is no. Crazy vet wants CCW without some special reason?? NO!!!

Oh well...that's why I live in the sticks, pretty much none of that shit matters out here.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Given that murders are very rarely random at all, in over 75% of cases it's someone you know. If you let someone get within 21 feet of you without pulling your gun if you have it you kinda deserve what happens. I can't imagine someone who would want to kill me and I didn't have some clue that this is not the motherfucker to let near me because he plans to murder me.

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd324/geoffhanna/misc/knowingishalfthebattle.png

Rifles are shitty for self defence because of their size making them impractical to carry and depending on the range your at simply slower than a handgun would be. Not to mention sure a rifle (depending on the caliber) is great up where you live where there's nobody around. I live in an actual urban area. If I miss my target, unlikely but not impossible, that round is going straight through a window and into someones house all but gauranteed. Which is a large part of why actual cities tend to be stricter about that kind of thing.

Like I said...they are only bad because 1st world shit...in absolute terms they are the fuckin' bomb for self defense.

You might as well have said that you had a personal force field and a shoulder mounted autocannon.

Sure, point is still the same....the 21ft rule only applies because your average civilian in the 1st world goes about their world with practically ZERO concern for their personal security. Especially those who carry with a false sense of it....

Paying attention to what's going around you is your biggest self defense.....not any weapon. At close range (within 21ft) weapons largely become meaningless, it's about who get the drop, as long as they don't fuck it up. Now they don't get a 1 hitter quitter the surprise advantage is lost and it could be anyone's game, weapons are whatever...I've seen a shovel triumph over AK47 at point blank range simply because AK holder freaked out and froze for 0.01 of a second.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I do however live in the First world so those problems are my problems. I find it humorous most of the time when people pretend I should look at some third world shit hole and say "Gee my problems aren't that bad when put into perspective.

And yes knowing is half the battle, more than half honestly. If I ever piss someone off that badly I'm gonna tell my friends that Jack is off the invite list and tell me if he's hanging out with you because I need to stay home if he is.

I didn't even try....I already know the answer is no. Crazy vet wants CCW without some special reason?? NO!!!

Oh well...that's why I live in the sticks, pretty much none of that shit matters out here.

I honestly don't mind the training. Of course if I had my way you'd need to take at least a short course to purchase it, and basic gun training would be mandatory in K-12. A lot of the stupid shit that does happen wouldn't if younger children understood it's not a toy, it's a weapon. This is how you clear it, this is how you check the safety, these are the rules of a gun. Don't take the safety off until your ready to shoot, keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot and for fuck's sake never point a gun at something you're not prepared to shoot.

A little education goes a long fucking way.

 

[BotanyBoy]

A little education goes a long fucking way.

http://files.sharenator.com/fuckin_a_First_Person_Shooter_s698x330_41620_535-s535x252-51660.jpg