Woman advice! Need a second opinion.

[Betticus]

Okay, the ex. Probably the only person on the face of the planet that I care about beyond friendship. This is the girl that nothing seems to work out with but I am getting what I think are mixed signals.

It is 5:00 in the morning and she just called me. She was all kinds of pissed off because her wallet was stolen out of her locker at work with a good amount of cash and a necklace, and her identification and debit card. So I listen to the whole story and sympathize with her. She was very worked up when she called, we were on the phone for about thirty minutes and in that time she ranted for a bit and then I told her a story about these two snow white doves that I saw playing with each other the other day on my way home. And chatted about a few meaningless things. So from the time she called she was livid and by the time I was done she was yawning and in bed and ready to go to sleep.

But, she maintains that she doesn't want to have a life with me. This happens once in a while. When she is sick she calls me. Upset, she calls me. When something really special happens that is good, she calls me. Now, don't get me wrong because each time she calls upon me I insert a little more neuro linguistic programming on the sly but this mixed signal thing has always been there. Also, according to her I am the only person that she's been with other than a certain kind of guy. Those were all disasters of course. She did tell me that she was only with me because I seduced her.

So, to summarize. I'm not her normal type of guy. I'm the only one that she was happy with. She is still very connected emotionally but only from her side pretty much.

Thoughts?

 

[Ritza]

When i need to share my up and downs with a man, it is the one i trust, that understands me to know why they're my ups and downs. Because he makes me feel safe to share and not be ridiculed. i go to the one i have a connection with.

i know it's how i would react but i hope it helps with some insight.

good luck

 

[catalina_francisco]

Painful but true, the one we turn to to talk about the serious and the stupid need not be the love of our life, more often a friend. I had one of 2 guys I used to always call, and they me, to just pass time or destress when times were crazy, but like you they thought it should equate to or indicate love and ever after, or at least something very deep and meaningful...and believe me I tried to feel that way....but bottom line was I just was not attracted to them in that way and nothing they or I did could change that, they were destined to be my friend only. Value it for what it is but don't allow yourself to hang onto dreams and hopes for more while life and possibly the 'right one' passes by unnoticed.

Catalina

 

[Red Sonja]

I don't know what to tell ya, Betticus. I can definitely understand why you feel that you are getting mixed signals. Especially since the relationship was more than "just friends".

I know this is going to come off as maligning her... but I really have the sense that she may be contacting you so she doesn't have to feel lonely while waiting for Mr. Right. I fear that she may be using you.

I do know that being friends doesn't always mean that, however. I have married and am serving my very best friend of all time.

So... look at the situation, if as Big says of Willow on Sex and the City, she can always reach you and you can never get her... maybe, just maybe you are being taken. Next time she calls, I'd tell her that you feel bad about that but that you are no longer available for her in this way, she made that decision and you hope things go well for her in the future and to please not call again.

One of two things will happen... she'll never call again which will let you move on with your life, or two, she will realize what she gave up and work hard to get back together with you again. At the end of the day, it is her decision. But it is your decision not to be used.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Winners never quit, etc.

 

[alice_underneath]

Betticus,

One possibility is that she trusts and needs you, but fear or something else is preventing her from committing to you more completely. If this is true, then communication and Rosco's advice might be the way to go.

Another possibility is that, as Red Sonja said, she is using you for comfort until someone else comes along.

Without knowing her, it's hard to say.

However, I will say this. A man who can take a disgruntled, terrified, or irritable woman and calm her into purring herself to sleep is a wonderful mate. Even if things don't work out for you here, some other girl is going to be quite lucky indeed.

Alice

 

[AngelicAssassin]

... she can always reach you and you can never get her... maybe, just maybe you are being taken. Next time she calls, I'd tell her that you feel bad about that but that you are no longer available for her in this way, she made that decision and you hope things go well for her in the future and to please not call again.

Depends on the people involved. Every relationship doesn't require a Cinderella fits the glass slipper ending. As kittycat pointed out, some folks click best as friends; others just want a straight response from someone s/he trusts not to take advantage of an opening to dive into bed. i've had two such female friends in life although i profess absolute conviction in the principal "When Harry met Sally" tenet. Then again, i'm sorta an only child so what the hell would i know.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Depends on the people involved. Every relationship doesn't require a Cinderella fits the glass slipper ending. As kittycat pointed out, some folks click best as friends; others just want a straight response from someone s/he trusts not to take advantage of an opening to dive into bed. i've had two such female friends in life although i profess absolute conviction in the principal "When Harry met Sally" tenet. Then again, i'm sorta an only child so what the hell would i know.

LOL, thanks AA, was begining to think I was the only one who had heard of chemistry. I think it really unfair to say a person is using another because they trust them but don't love them as a lover. What is even sadder is that if 2 people have opposite genitalia, some feel the only relationship they can share is a love affair. Truth is, you can love a person as much as you like, or think you do at least, but if they don't feel the same there is nothing you or they can do to change those feelings and fall in love with you....love is love, it doesn't often make sense and it can't be programmed. While you reject and shut someone out of your life because they can only offer friendship, you might miss one of the greatest relationships you ever had.

While in Oz recently, I went for coffee and gossip with one of the guys I mentioned earlier. We did at one stage do the sex thing, but I couldn't hide that it wasn't reallly what I wanted so it didn't continue...and it was difficult to know how to say that, especially knowing how he felt, but when he asked how I felt, I had to be honest which he respected. He has never been shy of saying how he wishes things had been different between us but he also respects my feelings and is happy for the love I have found and actually means it when he says it makes him happy I have found someone who loves me and who I love. Being an old fashioned guy, I had no fear he would cross the line as he has always had a policy about married women being off limits. We intended spending 2 hours max together, but hours and hours passed as we talked and laughed over things we had shared, and things that had happened in our own lives apart, and when we went our seperate ways, we both acknowledged how good it was to spend that time as friends only, not to mention rare...and we have had this friendship thing going about 18 years now. Best of all is we both know we can call each other if we ever need to and the other will be willing to listen and provide support without expecting anything more. It is a rare feeling indeed, and one which feels kinda nice. ...but it ain't love!!

Catalina

 

[caela]

But, she maintains that she doesn't want to have a life with me. This happens once in a while. When she is sick she calls me. Upset, she calls me. When something really special happens that is good, she calls me. Now, don't get me wrong because each time she calls upon me I insert a little more neuro linguistic programming on the sly but this mixed signal thing has always been there. Also, according to her I am the only person that she's been with other than a certain kind of guy. Those were all disasters of course. She did tell me that she was only with me because I seduced her.

Alright let me preface this by saying I don't know the girl so I can only go by what you've said in your post...that said it sounds to me like you are over thinking things and mixing the signals yourself.

It's apparent that she at least wants to be friends so that leaves you with deciding if you can handle just being her friend or if that will drive you crazy. If it's going to drive you nuts then tell her it needs to stop, if you can handle it than you have to accept that women will call the person they trust at 5am, or when they're sick, or angry, or distraught with no thought simply because they trust them to be there for them. When they do this with another woman no one thinks anything of it but when they do it with a guy it's often misconstrued as "mixed signals".

Of course that's my best case scenario. My worst case thought is that she knows you love her and is using you because she knows she can.

 

[alice_underneath]

LOL, thanks AA, was begining to think I was the only one who had heard of chemistry. I think it really unfair to say a person is using another because they trust them but don't love them as a lover. What is even sadder is that if 2 people have opposite genitalia, some feel the only relationship they can share is a love affair. Truth is, you can love a person as much as you like, or think you do at least, but if they don't feel the same there is nothing you or they can do to change those feelings and fall in love with you....love is love, it doesn't often make sense and it can't be programmed. While you reject and shut someone out of your life because they can only offer friendship, you might miss one of the greatest relationships you ever had.

One of the best friends I have ever had was a fantastic guy who wanted to be my lover. He respected the fact that I felt no "chemistry", and we were very close friends for a long time.

After a while, though, I would notice that he was curtailing relationships with other women. When I asked what went wrong, he would frequently joke, "Hey, they aren't you, darlin'."

This made me uneasy, for obvious reasons. Then one day, when we were just sitting around talking & laughing, he paused and became serious. He gently stroked my cheek and said, "It's pure joy and torture hanging out with you, kiddo. Both at the very same time."

And I knew in that instant that the friendship, though wonderful for me, was utterly unfair to him.

I'm not saying that the same is true for Betticus. Without knowing the people involved, it really is difficult to give advice.

But the first thing Betticus said was: "Okay, the ex. Probably the only person on the face of the planet that I care about beyond friendship."

Your earlier advice - "Value it for what it is but don't allow yourself to hang onto dreams and hopes for more while life and possibly the 'right one' passes by unnoticed" - may be spot on, but it is sometimes very difficult to do.

Alice

 

[graceanne]

What everyone here has said is pretty much what I've been saying. You need to stop saving yourself for her. It's pretty safe to say that nothing's gonna happen there. *hugs* I'm really sorry. I wish that it could, for you.

I agree - sounds like she sees you as a friend. I don't know if she knows what she's doing to you. If she does, and she keeps calling you that makes her pretty selfish.

 

[Netzach]

I pretty much only call my girlfriends when something shitty or interesting happens. I shamelessly use others for comfort and connection. I think that's the nature of most friendships, actually, not an especially selfish way to be other than that we're all pretty selfish.

 

[snowy ciara]

Hugs B. It sounds like you get to be one of her anchors. It's a sucky job, especially when you're interested in more and she's not. But you're very important to her. She's someone you trust, and you generally give good advice, but in my mind, you need to decided two things. Are you strong enough to handle being her friend with no "privileges"? and is she strong enough to handle it if you are not? What I mean, she relies on you to some extent, so if you decide to take give her the SatC scenario, be sure you can both handle the consequences if she decides to let you go.

Again, as far as mixed signals, she may not realize she's doing it. Please don't get all weird at me for saying this, but she's let you get closer to the girly side of her life than most men get. She may trust you and think of you as a friend to the extent that you don't register on her radar as "female friend" or "male friend" anymore, you just register as "friend", and that comes with a higher level of non-sexual intimacy than most men are used to.

AA, could you (or someone else if you're busy!) please explain the "Harry met Sally" tenet thing? I'm probably betraying my youth here, but it went right over my head. Probably would help if I'd seen the movie.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

AA, could you (or someone else if you're busy!) please explain the "Harry met Sally" tenet thing?

We need a thread for When Harry met Sally.

Harry Burns: You realize of course that we could never be friends.
Sally Albright: Why not?
Harry Burns: What I'm saying is - and this is not a come-on in any way, shape or form - is that men and women can't be friends because the sex part always gets in the way.
Sally Albright: That's not true. I have a number of men friends and there is no sex involved.
Harry Burns: No you don't.
Sally Albright: Yes I do.
Harry Burns: No you don't.
Sally Albright: Yes I do.
Harry Burns: You only think you do.
Sally Albright: You say I'm having sex with these men without my knowledge?
Harry Burns: No, what I'm saying is they all WANT to have sex with you.
Sally Albright: They do not.
Harry Burns: Do too.
Sally Albright: They do not.
Harry Burns: Do too.
Sally Albright: How do you know?
Harry Burns: Because no man can be friends with a woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with her.
Sally Albright: So, you're saying that a man can be friends with a woman he finds unattractive?
Harry Burns: No. You pretty much want to nail 'em too.
Sally Albright: What if THEY don't want to have sex with YOU?
Harry Burns: Doesn't matter because the sex thing is already out there so the friendship is ultimately doomed and that is the end of the story.
Sally Albright: Well, I guess we're not going to be friends then.
Harry Burns: I guess not.
Sally Albright: That's too bad. You were the only person I knew in New York.

 

[alice_underneath]

AA - lol.

Snowy -

http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&cf=info&id=1800134855

It's a wonderful comedy, and I urge you to rent it.

Alice

 

[AngelicAssassin]

AA - lol.

Snowy -

http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&cf=info&id=1800134855

It's a wonderful comedy, and I urge you to rent it.

Alice

And the corollary, a few years later.

Harry Burns: Would you like to have dinner?... Just friends.

Sally Albright: I thought you didn't believe men and women could be friends.

Harry Burns: When did I say that?

Sally Albright: On the ride to New York.

Harry Burns: No, no, no, I never said that... Yes, that's right, they can't be friends. Unless both of them are involved with other people, then they can... This is an amendment to the earlier rule. If the two people are in relationships, the pressure of possible involvement is lifted... That doesn't work either, because what happens then is, the person you're involved with can't understand why you need to be friends with the person you're just friends with. Like it means something is missing from the relationship and why do you have to go outside to get it? And when you say "No, no, no it's not true, nothing is missing from the relationship," the person you're involved with then accuses you of being secretly attracted to the person you're just friends with, which you probably are. I mean, come on, who the hell are we kidding, let's face it. Which brings us back to the earlier rule before the amendment, which is men and women can't be friends.

 

[alice_underneath]

And the corollary, a few years later.

What a classic movie. This is making me smile so much, Mr. Assassin!

Got an audio link to the restaurant scene?

 

[graceanne]

What a classic movie. This is making me smile so much, Mr. Assassin!

Got an audio link to the restaurant scene?

I love the restraunt scene. I laughed so hard.

 

[snowy ciara]

I was 8 when that came out. I saw the Little Mermaid instead. "Darlin' it's better, down where it's wetter, take it from me!"

 

[graceanne]

I was 8 when that came out. I saw the Little Mermaid instead. "Darlin' it's better, down where it's wetter, take it from me!"

Up on the shore theyw ork all day, out in the sun they slave away, while we devotin full time to floatin, under the sea.

 

[alice_underneath]

I love the restraunt scene. I laughed so hard.

Me too. The movie is hilarious, and that's one of the best scenes.

I was 8 when that came out.

So you're roughly 24 at this point? Dear god, woman! You are waaaaay overdue to rent this movie!

All teasing aside, snowy - next time you need a good laugh, you really should.

 

[snowy ciara]

De fish on de land ain't happy;
they said cause they in bowl!

 

[snowy ciara]

Me too. The movie is hilarious, and that's one of the best scenes.
So you're roughly 24 at this point? Dear god, woman! You are waaaaay overdue to rent this movie!

All teasing aside, snowy - next time you need a good laugh, you really should.

No, I'm fricken mathematically impaired. ROFL I blame the pain pills. Giggling madly Sorry, I'll be 21 in January. I was 5 when they both came out. Sorry for the mistake, I was also a bit distracted when I posted that.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Me too. The movie is hilarious, and that's one of the best scenes.

Almost as good as ...

Harry Burns: With whom did you have this great sex?
Sally Albright: I'm not going to tell you that.
Harry Burns: Fine, don't tell me.
Sally Albright: Shel Gordon.
Harry Burns: Shel? Sheldon? No, no, you did not have great sex with Sheldon.
Sally Albright: I did too.
Harry Burns: No you didn't. A Sheldon can do your income taxes, if you need a root canal, Sheldon's your man... but humpin' and pumpin' is not Sheldon's strong suit. It's the name. 'Do it to me Sheldon, you're an animal Sheldon, ride me big Shel-don.' Doesn't work.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Got an audio link to the restaurant scene?

Took a while to find.

Click me.

i forgot she was slapping the table during this.

[after Sally fakes orgasm in a deli]
Older Woman Customer: [to waiter] I'll have what she's having.