Will you be willing to give up the good life?

[p_p_man]

Regardless whether bin Laden (the tall man on a horse) is found or not, Bush has said that this destruction of world-wide terrorism will continue.

If the next countries targeted are going to be Iraq, Sudan and Aden, at least two of which won't exactly be pushovers, this "war" is going to cost a lot of dollars.

After those three there will be more over the horizon. Then as one terrorist group is eradicated, others will be springing up somewhere else.

How far are you willing to go?

When the money starts getting tight and the present recession bites even deeper will you still be happy to follow this track down and destroy policy?

Now that the immediate emotion of September 11 has faded slightly will, too, the urge to wage "war" on terrorism, everywhere?

I reckon it will slowly fade away until it's nothing more than a footnote in history books.

 

[WriterDom]

If the next countries targeted are going to be Iraq, Sudan and Aden, at least two of which won't exactly be pushovers, this "war" is going to cost a lot of dollars.

Philippines might be a good next stop. But which two wont be pushovers? Sudan and Aden? We aren't talking about the UK who was defeated by both Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Re: Will you be willing to give up the good life?

Philippines might be a good next stop. But which two wont be pushovers? Sudan and Aden? We aren't talking about the UK who was defeated by both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Iraq and Sudan.

USA has never beaten them either without help.

The thing is there was the coalition last time there was a war with Iraq. This time I can see the coalition melting away as Bush tries to extend his "war".

 

[WriterDom]

The only reason we need help is to be politically correct.

 

[p_p_man]

The only reason we need help is to be politically correct.

sharp, oh very sharp!

 

[WriterDom]

sharp, oh very sharp!

Actually we need and welcome a lot of help. Just not on the military front.

 

[Moridin187]

Re: Re: Re: Will you be willing to give up the good life?

Iraq and Sudan.

USA has never beaten them either without help.

*snorts and tries to keep from hurting himself as he falls out of his chair laughing*

*manages to get hold of himself after several minutes*

Oh please, any other forces involved with the Iraqi military actions were purely for political reasons. We stepped on them before, and if we go in, we'll step on them again. They are absolutely no match for us militarily. Picture a two year old in a fight with a unit of marines on steroids and amphetamines and you've got the rough idea of it.

I'm not for invading any other country, I think it's a stupid idea, and a wrong one. We don't have the right. But if we do, it's not really going to be hard.

 

[oakleyx4]

All the way

Trust me most Americans will never forget and most of America will want to go all the way. Only the non Americans question and complain. If you could see the site you would not forget either.

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Will you be willing to give up the good life?

I'm not for invading any other country, I think it's a stupid idea, and a wrong one. We don't have the right. But if we do, it's not really going to be hard.

Now where have I heard that before?

 

[p_p_man]

Re: All the way

If you could see the site you would not forget either.

We're not exactly strangers to widespread war damage over here you know...

 

[Moridin187]

Hmm... I was surprised to find that according to the CIA's World Factbook Iraq has a larger military than we do.. Then I remembered that military service over there isn't exactly voluntary.... But, not even taking into account the HUGE technological difference:

US
Military manpower - availability: males age 15-49: 70,819,436
Iraq
Military manpower - availability: males age 15-49: 5,902,215 (2001 est.)

See what I mean?

 

[Guest]

First, the Gulf War was fought with Iraq at the hight of there power.

Second, a full scale invasion of Iraq is unlikely mainly because none of their neighbors would welcome a huge buildup of forces.

Third, we seem to have fallen in love with the notion of letting local populations slug it out on the ground.

Forth, one of the things Bush the first did was to encourage a revolution against Sadam by opposition groups. Unfortunately, we abandoned them once we had secured Kuwait. We may not have the trust of those groups at this point.

All of this seems to indicate that Sadam is relatively safe. I suspect the Sudan is next. I also suspect that this war will degenerate into attacks on terrorist bases. That will force these groups to move further underground and I fear an end to terroism will be impossible to attain.

Has anyone wondered how a 18 year old american can join the forces of Bin Ladin and the CIA. as far as we know has had no luck infiltrating them. It puzzles me. It truly does.

 

[seXieleXie]

last i heard you had to be 18 to be drafted... and i know the cut off age for a soldier is way younger than 49...

and what percent of those "available" men would be willing to fight?

 

[Babydoll5272]

My two cents worth

I dont want to stir any waves but my personal opinion is this. I lost my brother in the World Trade Centers On Sept 11th and my uncle, I want revenge as any other American does. But in the same token it worries me how far we will go as my only other brother is a pilot in Afganistan and I worry on loosing another sibling!

I am 100% behind the President and applaude him for all the decisions he has made thus far! He has shown more balls then I feel Bill Clinton would of shown and that is saying alot considering I voted for Clinton and not for President Bush.

All I know is no one will ever see eye to eye on this and I also know no matter how far we fight this war we will NEVER completely put and end to terrisom but maybe we will make a HUGE Dent. And in doing so maybe make them reconsider messing with the United States in the way they again!

As to the economy and the money issue. Are economy has taken a hell of a hit and I know war will not make it any better, but what would you suggest we do nothing and allow this kind of behavior to exist for the future of are kids? My children were petrified to think two of their VERY CLOSE relatives were killed by the means that were killed in! It was so hard to explain to them about terrosim and I know personally I NEVER want my children to ever again have to go through what are family is dealing with on a daily basis!

I am not trying to ruffle any feathers by voicing my opinion as I respect every opinion on this subject I have read! As long as it is done with tact! I just feel none of will ever see totally eye to eye on this situtation but we should really think of are children and their future. And that by going to war maybe we are securing a life not filled with as much terrosim as we have seen in our lifetimes!

Thank you for allowing me to put my two cents in!

Happy Holidays to all!

DOLL

 

[Problem Child]

Re: Re: Re: Will you be willing to give up the good life?

Iraq and Sudan.

USA has never beaten them either without help.

The thing is there was the coalition last time there was a war with Iraq. This time I can see the coalition melting away as Bush tries to extend his "war".

Good God, you really are an idiot, aren't you?

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Will you be willing to give up the good life?

Good God, you really are an idiot, aren't you?

Go away and concentrate on your elite fighting force of women and leave the serious threads like this to the grown-ups...

 

[morninggirl5]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Will you be willing to give up the good life?

Go away and concentrate on your elite fighting force of women and leave the serious threads like this to the grown-ups...

Grown-ups???????? Surely you didn't include yourself in that grouping, did you?????


ROFLMAO

 

[p_p_man]

Has anyone wondered how a 18 year old american can join the forces of Bin Ladin and the CIA. as far as we know has had no luck infiltrating them. It puzzles me. It truly does.

Yes it does seem strange on the face of it but in the early days of the UK's war with the IRA most of us had no idea that they had been infiltrated by our security services years before.

It really is a dark and secret business. Not all the information gained by the extremely heroic deep cover agents is used but is often filed against other reports to build up a complete a picture as possible.

As bin Laden has been held responsible for past atrocities against the USA I would have thought that the CIA or other undercover agencies started infiltrating his network years ago.

As for an 18 year old American joining. He could have done that through Pakistan easily enough.

 

[Guest]

Actually he joined in Yemen. My point is that, the intelligence types, have used the excuse that infiltrating these groups is extremely difficut. It would seem that with a modest amount of effort they could have.

As for the possibility that bin Laden is not behind the attacks, i see little chance of that being the case. The attack itself was coordinated and planned to the t. The target, the planes. the weapons, the flight schools, all the evidence points to sponsorship. If you look at the "possible actors" who could be behind this attack one must consider motive.

Iraq, i cannot see a direct role there. Sadam is the Stalin of this era. His main concern is his regimes survival. Enraging the United States did nothing to secure his future.

The other speculations border on the obsurd. The Israeli's, my god that is too silly. So how did have motive. bin Laden. His aim has been to have United States forces removed from Saudi Arabia for at least 10 years. He is mesianic to the point of insanity and he is isolated from the reality of the world. I think, his calculation was this. The United States will withdraw in the face of the loose of life. He would foment revolution in Saudia Arabia and continue his version of Jihad from Mecca. It takes a mad man to plan and mispercieve on the level that he has.

 

[JazzManJim]

I have a couple quibbles with your post.

First, there's the implication that the recession and the War on Terrorism are related. They aren't. The recession's existence itself is still under debate, as the classical definition hasn't been met (negative growth in GNP for two consecutive quarters). Additionally, though unemployment numbers are up, interest rates are at nearly rock-bottom, consumer spending is still up, and the stock market is still high and climbing. Those are seriously mixed signals that do not necessarily spell "recession".

Second, there are countless alternatives to sending numerous troops in several fronts to battle terrorism. As our intelligence community gets up to speed after nearly a decade of neglect and mismanagement, we'll have better information on who and where the terrorists are, and better local agents. You may well see very precise, very targeted strikes against those individuals directly. Yep...assasination. The climate is right, not only in the US, but globally, for such a thing to take place. After all, this is a war they declared, they are active combatants, and subject to the laws of war, which do include being shot, strangled, poisoned, stabbed, or beaten to death. However it's done, it's a viable alternative.

As for the governments that prop up and.or support such evil people, there's a very simple solution. They get one warning: end your support, give up the terrorists, or you will be removed from power, dead or alive. EAch of these countries have sufficient opposition groups we can use as allies who would be more than happy to run the country and to do so by the one simple rule: aid no terrorist. Then the old recalcritant regime is topped, militarily, by assassination (yeah, I know. But that's a Presidential Order and very easily overturned), or by inside coup.

Doesn't sound like such an onerous thing for my countrymen.

 

[PHANTOM5875]

Babydoll, my heart goes out to you...

I dont want to stir any waves but my personal opinion is this. I lost my brother in the World Trade Centers On Sept 11th and my uncle, I want revenge as any other American does. But in the same token it worries me how far we will go as my only other brother is a pilot in Afganistan and I worry on loosing another sibling!

I am 100% behind the President and applaude him for all the decisions he has made thus far! He has shown more balls then I feel Bill Clinton would of shown and that is saying alot considering I voted for Clinton and not for President Bush.

All I know is no one will ever see eye to eye on this and I also know no matter how far we fight this war we will NEVER completely put and end to terrisom but maybe we will make a HUGE Dent. And in doing so maybe make them reconsider messing with the United States in the way they again!

As to the economy and the money issue. Are economy has taken a hell of a hit and I know war will not make it any better, but what would you suggest we do nothing and allow this kind of behavior to exist for the future of are kids? My children were petrified to think two of their VERY CLOSE relatives were killed by the means that were killed in! It was so hard to explain to them about terrosim and I know personally I NEVER want my children to ever again have to go through what are family is dealing with on a daily basis!

I am not trying to ruffle any feathers by voicing my opinion as I respect every opinion on this subject I have read! As long as it is done with tact! I just feel none of will ever see totally eye to eye on this situtation but we should really think of are children and their future. And that by going to war maybe we are securing a life not filled with as much terrosim as we have seen in our lifetimes!

Thank you for allowing me to put my two cents in!

Happy Holidays to all!

DOLL

Your comments brought tears to my eyes realizing the terrible loss you have suffered already in this terrible conflict. I sincerely hope your brother returns to you safe and sound but I wonder whether he would have chosen to opt out of that tour of duty had he been given a choice. I suspect you couldn't have pried him out of there with dynamite. We owe your family our respect and our sorrow for the terrible price paid for our way of life.

With sincere respect to you, babydoll, if we (USA) wanted to just go kick somebody's ass just because we wanted to, terrorist havens like Libya, Syria, Palestine, and Afghanistan, just to name a few would be so many glassy spots on the globe. No, that's not what we are about. But, there are times when enough is enough and extreme measures HAVE to be taken and good and innocent people on BOTH sides get hurt. It sucks but that's the way of things.

I would suggest to any terrorists peeking in right now that you MIGHT want to wait a few years before fucking with the USA again because our blood lust is up right now and that's a terrible thing to behold when it's finally aroused.

Wishing you peace of mind and soul, babydoll.

Be well.

Phantom

 

[Moridin187]

Oh, one other point I just remembered.. Even if we did get involved in a ground war with Iraq for some reason... Their soldiers would most likely do the same thing they did the last time around. Surrender... in Large numbers.

 

[Juspar Emvan]

Hmm... I was surprised to find that according to the CIA's World Factbook Iraq has a larger military than we do.. Then I remembered that military service over there isn't exactly voluntary.... But, not even taking into account the HUGE technological difference:

US
Military manpower - availability: males age 15-49: 70,819,436
Iraq
Military manpower - availability: males age 15-49: 5,902,215 (2001 est.)

See what I mean?

Ok, not targeting anyone in particular, but you Americans need to pull your heads out of your arses.

Forget those numbers for a starter, and think how many are willing to fight and die? Add in the females to that figure too, it changes things dramatically. But that's not the point either.

I believe it can and should be done, but it will take a long term and united effort to do it. I also believe that (although the Americans don't understand this, because you don't understand much beyond your own borders) Ireland should be bloody high on that list. I veiled reference was made to this already

 

[Moridin187]

I was only talking about numbers to help Ppman understand how incredibly easy it would be for America to take Iraq again. And when you get us riled up, you'd be surprised just How many of us WOULD be willing to fight and die for our country. Also, don't group Americans together like that, one thing that Americans all agree on is that we don't agree on almost anything.

I'm descended from almost pure Irish stock, most of my forebears came over during the Famine. I think the Northern Ireland issue should have been resolved a HELL of a long time ago. But it's very, very complicated.

 

[p_p_man]

Europe is drifting away from extending the "war" any further...

especially into Iraq.

It's not the numbers of troops they have, against what we can muster or even the fact that Saddam Hussein is a despotic, unbalanced leader that is giving a lot of people pause for thought.

It's the religion. No, sorry, not the religion. The culture.

No matter what we've been told and how we interpret our Masters' voices Islam bonds millions of people around the globe into one unit. Yes, sometimes it's abused, as in bin Laden's case, but the majority of the followers of Islam are firm believers.

Although they can see the sense in getting rid of the bin Ladens of this world and are quite happy to let America and the Coalition do their work for them, they would probably be less happy about Iraq. Already the stories of millions of children dying through US and UK actions are accepted as well known facts (as they probably are).

Couple any further extension of the "war against terrorism" with that of the Israeli/Palestine conflict, with America's open support of Israel, then Islamic anger at what they see as the injustice of the situation will only grow...