Will the Catholic church ever get its head out of its ass?

ABSTRUSE

Cirque du Freak
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Posts
50,094
I can't even tell you how angry this makes me. :mad:




Lesbian couple in Wyo. denied Communion

GILLETTE, Wyo. - Leah Vader and Lynne Huskinson, a lesbian couple who got married in Canada last August, sent a letter recently to their state legislator decrying a Wyoming bill that would deny recognition of same-sex marriages. The lawmaker read the letter on the floor of the Legislature.

Soon after, the local paper interviewed the couple on Ash Wednesday and ran a story and pictures of them with ash on their foreheads, a mark of their Roman Catholic faith.

It wasn't long after that that the couple received a notice from their parish church telling them they have been barred from receiving Communion.

"If all this stuff hadn't hit the newspaper, it wouldn't have been any different than before — nobody would have known about it," said the couple's parish priest at St. Matthew's, the Rev. Cliff Jacobson. "The sin is one thing. It's a very different thing to go public with that sin."

Catholics deemed sinners in the eyes of the church are sometimes taken aside and privately advised not to take Communion. But Cheyenne Bishop David Ricken, gay Catholic organizations and a national church spokeswoman said they could not recall any previous instance of a U.S. bishop denying the sacrament to a gay couple in writing.

Now Huskinson and Vader say they are struggling to reconcile their devotion to the church with their devotion to each other.

"You spend half your time defending your gayness to Catholics," Vader said, "and the other half of your time defending your Catholicism to gays."

The couple, who regularly attended Mass and took Communion, have not been back to St. Matthew's since they received the letter a month and a half ago. Vader said they did not want to make a scene.

The 46-year-old newlyweds — Vader is a supervisor at a recycling center, Huskinson a coal miner — ran afoul of a sort of don't-ask-don't-tell policy on the church's part.

"I told my wife in good conscience that if I had known those ladies, and we'd have been having a beer, I'd have just told them to keep everything to themselves," parish music director John Chick said. He added that once news like this hits the papers, "someone's forced to deal with it now, aren't they?"

The parish priest said that after the couple put their engagement and marriage announcements in the local paper, he ran reminders of the church's teachings in the parish bulletin as a warning.

After the Ash Wednesday story, the priest sent this letter: "It is with a heavy heart, in obedience to the instruction of Bishop David Ricken, that I must inform you that, because of your union and your public advocacy of same-sex unions, that you are unable to receive Communion."

The bishop said the couple's sex life constitutes a grave sin, "and the fact that it became so public, that was their choice."

Last fall, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops overwhelmingly approved new guidelines that say parishes should welcome gays while telling them to be celibate because the church considers their sexuality "disordered." The bishops said that anyone who knowingly persists in sinful behavior, such as gay sex or using artificial contraception, should refrain from taking Communion.

Professor Carl Raschke, chairman of religious studies at the University of Denver, said of the Cheyenne bishop's decision: "It's no more surprising that the Catholic Church would deny Communion to an openly gay couple than a Muslim mosque would deny access to somebody who ate pork."

Sister Mary Ann Walsh, spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said the church allows local bishops to handle decisions on who may take Communion, so there is no record of how many have been barred from receiving the sacrament.

Walsh said most cases she has heard of involved public figures. During the 2004 presidential campaign, the St. Louis archbishop Raymond Burke said he would deny Communion to John Kerry, a Catholic who supports abortion rights.

Vader said the couple never made any secret of their relationship. She pointed to statuettes of two kissing Dutch girls in front of their single-wide trailer home. She also said that the couple posed for a church directory family photo with Vader's children from a previous marriage, and that the church has sent mail to both of them at the same address for years.

Huskinson questioned why Catholics having premarital sex and using birth control are not barred from receiving Communion, too. But the parish priest said the difference is this: The other Catholics are "not going around broadcasting, `Hey I'm having sex outside of marriage' or `I'm using birth control.'"
 
So it's not a "sin" unless everyone knows about it?

Can we say "hypocrites,' boys and girls? I knew you could.

:rolleyes:
 
"But the parish priest said the difference is this: The other Catholics are "not going around broadcasting, `Hey I'm having sex outside of marriage' or `I'm using birth control.'"

Nor are they saying "I'm a pedophile" or "I love BDSM" or "I'm secretly a rapist"
 
ABSTRUSE said:
"But the parish priest said the difference is this: The other Catholics are "not going around broadcasting, `Hey I'm having sex outside of marriage' or `I'm using birth control.'"

Nor are they saying "I'm a pedophile" or "I love BDSM" or "I'm secretly a rapist"

I won't say what I really want to say, because I have too many friends that I respect that are Catholic.

but....damn.
 
Eh, it's their club, they can set whatever rules they want. It's a free country - nobody has to join. And you can choose who you want to hang with - and who you don't. That works both ways.
 
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I guess they're supposed to be thankful they weren't outright Excommunicated. Or maybe they have been, but Eucharist is the only sacrament where it really makes a difference. *sigh*

No wonder I'm lapsed.



:cool:
 
In a word, no.

They fear for their power. That power is based an a clear cut perception of good and evil. If they started changing their perception their power will fade, so they think.

So they won't change.

As John Wyndham pointed out there is only one place where change does not take place. And that place is among the fossils.
 
Roxanne Appleby said:
Eh, it's their club, they can set whatever rules they want. It's a free country - nobody has to join. And you can choose who you want to hang with - and who you don't. That works both ways.

Funny, I don't see you saying that about Muslims.
 
Roxanne Appleby said:
Eh, it's their club, they can set whatever rules they want. It's a free country - nobody has to join. And you can choose who you want to hang with - and who you don't.

True, but ... I thought God & Co wasn't incorporated as a private, exclusive club.
 
Remec said:
I guess they're supposed to be thankful they weren't outright Excommunicated. Or maybe they have been, but Eucharist is the only sacrament where it really makes a difference. *sigh*

No wonder I'm lapsed.



:cool:

Me, too.

Disappointing but not surprising.
 
impressive said:
True, but ... I thought God & Co wasn't incorporated as a private, exclusive club.
If there is such a being, He hasn't filed any kind of incorporation papers as far as I know. (That would be really big news, right?)
 
impressive said:
True, but ... I thought God & Co wasn't incorporated as a private, exclusive club.


Depends on the God(ess). *g*

More importantly, it depends on the followers of said God(ess). Any given congregation of any given denomination is like the chapters of a fraternity. While the national might have an overall style or ideological shape, at the local level it always comes down to how the current roster of members (and their alumni advisors) what to express themselves and be perceived by the various communities around them.

Some Christian groups--even some Catholic groups--vary widely in how close to the dogma and doctrinal line they wish to be with regards to any number of controversial subjects. If you discover that a group you had chosen to join wasn't in line with your way of thinking, then you have to decide whether to change the group, change your thinking, or go find a different group.

This applies to pretty much anything in life--politics, religion, business networking, college alumni groups, even the local PTA.


:cool:
 
That's why I left the church long ago, I just couldn't stand the hypocrisy.
 
Zeb_Carter said:
That's why I left the church long ago, I just couldn't stand the hypocrisy.

Oh, but it's not hypocrisy, Zeb.....Rox says it's a free country and you can hang around whoever you want....

as long as you're Christian, of course. The same doesn't apply to Muslims.
 
I think the group of us should get together in a couple of hotel rooms in Chicago and discuss this.

At great length, with lots of alcohol.

:cathappy:
 
sweetsubsarahh said:
I think the group of us should get together in a couple of hotel rooms in Chicago and discuss this.

At great length, with lots of alcohol.

:cathappy:

I'm there. :catroar:
 
sweetsubsarahh said:
I think the group of us should get together in a couple of hotel rooms in Chicago and discuss this.

At great length, with lots of alcohol.

:cathappy:
I agree with the getting together in a hotel room, but the minute you mix religion with alcohol, well it's just not pretty! ;)
 
Zeb_Carter said:
I agree with the getting together in a hotel room, but the minute you mix religion with alcohol, well it's just not pretty! ;)

Oh, Zeb - you know we won't discuss religion!

(maybe a few - Oh God! - phrases?)

:kiss: :kiss: :kiss:
 
After the Ash Wednesday story, the priest sent this letter: "It is with a heavy heart, in obedience to the instruction of Bishop David Ricken, that I must inform you that, because of your union and your public advocacy of same-sex unions, that you are unable to receive Communion."

That's actually incorrect... it be 'we are unwilling to give you Communion'.

And yes, eventually the Church will change; when the culture around it changes, a religion must change or die.

The culture around the church hasn't changed enough... or else putting gay marriage on the ballot wouldn't have driven voters to polls to get The Dumber Bush re-elected.
 
I knew a woman who's entire life revolved around the fact that she and her husband were never formally married in the Church. She had gotten divorced, you see, and although she and her husband had gotten a legal marriage, her sister-in-law ruled the household- because this woman was Living In Sin. For some twenty years. She had no authority in her family.

Eventually, her daughter was ready to be married, and her priest or bishop or whatever, got special dispensation from Rome. Her son and I (he was gay, by the way) were coming back to their house, and there she was, strolling arm-in-arm with her husband, coming back from some special ceremony. Everything changed after that. Her sister-in-law had lost the high moral ground....


No, the Catholic Church will never pull its head out of its ass.
 
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