Why You Cant Really Help People.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080728/D92712Q8Q.html

 

[DeeZire]

JB - you're absolutely right. Following your logic, we have only two alternatives - piss on the helpless, or let the government help the helpless. Is this the point of your thread?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

DEEZIRE

Teach them how to fish.

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

Kind acts should be done without concern for what comes after the act. If you build someone a house and they destroy it or lose it, ah well, your karma is still good. It's their hard luck.

 

[R. Richard]

I fail to see the problem. The people had a house built for them. The used some of the value of the house to try to start a business. The business failed. It isn't as if they used the money to go to Las Vegas.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

RICHARD & LESBIAPHRODITE

And now they need a home again.

My guess is what they did matters to their benefactors, and I suppose we'll wait and see if anyone builds them another house. If you guys are right, they probably will.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Times are hard. Businesses fail. Things happen.

I certainly don't think they "squandered" anything.

 

[DeeZire]

DEEZIRE

Teach them how to fish.

Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish, and he will wipe out an entire species.

Actually, the example you cited fits your 'teach a man to fish' philosophy perfectly. They learned from the new house that was built for them, they used the equity of the house to borrow money to start a construction company - presumably to build houses - and then their business failed. In other words, they learned how to fish, but they caught nothing.

I believe it's something like 90% of startup businesses fail. If this is the rate of success for capitalism, one might be better served by going to Las Vegas.

A side note: Although I like the humanitarian aspect of the program, the way they overdo the houses they build is mind boggling. My first thought is - how are the residents going to pay the electric bill? And the taxes? It's comparable to cartoon violence - exaggerated for TV, with no correlation to reality.

I wouldn't be caught dead living in one of the mansions they build, although I would think they'd make a nice location for a swingers club - or a home for Big Brothers to mentor disadvantage youth. Or dual-use - disadvantaged youth during the day, horny sluts at night.

 

[keeblercrumb]

Rocket Man

Or dual-use - disadvantaged youth during the day, horny sluts at night.

What's that address again?



-KC

 

[elsol]

I wouldn't be caught dead living in one of the mansions they build, although I would think they'd make a nice location for a swingers club - or a home for Big Brothers to mentor disadvantage youth. Or dual-use - disadvantaged youth during the day, horny sluts at night.

I would... for as long as it took me to sell it.

 

[DeeZire]

I would... for as long as it took me to sell it.

That could be a problem. Who's going to buy a half-a-million dollar mansion in a neighborhood full of $125K homes? Plus, if you sold it, where would the disadvantaged youth go? And the horny sluts? Have you no compassion for your fellow man? And woman?

Plus, with the swingers club/Big Brothers scam, you could probably make $50k per month with internet webcams running at night, and write off $50k per month for charitable use during the day. This is where the owners of the house screwed up - they chose the wrong business to get into.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

DEEZIRE

It was a bad time to start a construction business.

But its always a bad time to start any company whose wares arent wanted by the market. It coulda been 8 track tape players or hula-hoops.

I think the conventional wisdom tags them as idgits who pissed away a golden opportunity.

"A fool and his money..."

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Actually, I think that was pretty slick capitalism, leveraging their assets like that.

The only thing better would have been to turn around and sell the damned thing and who would be stupid enough to buy it?

How many fire places?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

DOC

Except, now they need a place to live. Theyre right back where they started.

If their scheme worked they'd be doing great. But their scheme failed.

The most useful lesson I ever learned is: The outcome is the real meaning of anything.

On another thread I mentioned that 30% of the black kids graduate school here. The worst schools have mostly black students, though the schools are in good condition and the best teachers get paid well to teach in them. But the kids do worse with every improvement. Everyone is alarmed, careers are ruined, and people scratch their heads, puzzled.

According to my ancestor's biography, he and a slave learned to read by the light of a fireplace at night. They toiled all day and deciphered a hymnal my ancestor stole from church. They knew the lyrics, and puzzled it out.

Few have that kind of desire today. You dont need fancy buildings or the rest. You need desire.

 

[DeeZire]

You need desire.

Dude! I'm here for you!

Much has been speculated about the welfare state and the affect on desire. It will probably take at least a generation to change the social patterns that have been instilled by the mismanagement of welfare programs. But making a blanket assumption that the welfare state is bad, and that 'pulling yourself up by your bootstraps' is the only solution is simple-minded and unrealistic.

Personally, I would rather err on the side of compassion than allow indifference to lower the quality of the society I live in. Anyone who feels justified in ignoring the poor should read the book 'Nickel and Dimed', just so they can gain perspective from both sides of the issue.

I think this is where we, as individuals fail in our obligations to society - we see the world with blinders on. Then, out of a sense of having convictions, we adopt our filtered view of reality and try to impose it on everyone else. While we're doing this, kids are going to school hungry. It's one thing to let adults fend for themselves, but the kids are innocent. We owe them a chance to at least get an education on a full stomach.

 

[Boxlicker101]

DOC

Except, now they need a place to live. Theyre right back where they started.

If their scheme worked they'd be doing great. But their scheme failed.

The most useful lesson I ever learned is: The outcome is the real meaning of anything.

On another thread I mentioned that 30% of the black kids graduate school here. The worst schools have mostly black students, though the schools are in good condition and the best teachers get paid well to teach in them. But the kids do worse with every improvement. Everyone is alarmed, careers are ruined, and people scratch their heads, puzzled.

According to my ancestor's biography, he and a slave learned to read by the light of a fireplace at night. They toiled all day and deciphered a hymnal my ancestor stole from church. They knew the lyrics, and puzzled it out.

Few have that kind of desire today. You dont need fancy buildings or the rest. You need desire.

Actually, they're worse off than when they started. The used to own a rundown house on a building lot, but now they don't even have that.

I agree, by the way, that the quality of the teaching is much less important than the quality of the learning.

 

[KLCK]

Seems like it would have been better to wait until the kids moved out and then opened a bed and breakfast seeing as you have this huge house.

I seriosly dont understand why you would start a construction buisness during the WORST time to start a construction industry.

I wouldn't say you cant help them. I would be really angry if they sold the house to host a giant 450k doller crack party with 450k dollers worth the crack...but a buisness? Nah.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

DEEZIRE

I'd be the biggest champion of welfare there is if it helped average people with temporary problems, but it doesnt.

When I worked for the state I saw it in action.

If a woman needed a motel room and meals for the kiddies and a bus ticket back to Chicago to Grandma, she couldnt get a dime. But the state would take her kids and start the legal bullshit because she had no place to stay.

The other great example is the homeless guy who stole 42 cents from the wish pond at the mall. The simple thing to do was give him $20, but he was arrested and jailed, etc. That 42 cents cost taxpayers $1000.

The system will not give you gas money or grocery money or a night in a motel or a bus ticket. But it will spend fortunes on parasites and lawyers and counselors.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

BOXLICKER

Yes indeed!

When the student is ready the teacher comes.

 

[Carnevil9]

When the student is ready the teacher comes.

This would make a good title for a story in the Mature category......Carney

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMESBJOHNSON
When the student is ready the teacher comes.

This would make a good title for a story in the Mature category......Carney

Except if it was one that I was writing, it would be more like "Student and Teacher Cum Together"