Why women love bad boys ... even if they're already dating a vampire

[CharleyH]

I dunno about anyone else, but I'm hooked on the HBO series, True Blood (Fantastic casting, great dialogue, and fabulous storylines). We were recently watching Season 2, Episode 9, "I Will Rise Up" and about halfway through the episode is a love scene between innocent, darling Sookie and cold, man-eating, but sizzling-hot Viking vampire-machine, Erik. To me, the events leading up to this scene and the scene itself epitomize the attraction that women have to bad boys and, vice versa, the attraction that men have to innocent good girls (I will focus only a little on the former, but feel free to add your two cents on the latter or both and in any scenario).

It's hard for me to write this without wanting to recount the whole series and specifically the scene in question, but I'd be ruining it for anyone who hasn't watched this episode and excluding everyone not familiar with the book or series. With this said, I will summarize the scene by "suggesting" that as innocent, moral and good as a character like Sookie can be, she doesn't want to be naughty (which seems a premise for much porn and even Hollywood scenarios), she wants someone to recognize that she already IS naughty and the bad boy does know this (the hero doesn't in this scenario) and that is one attraction.

What are your thoughts on the attraction to bad boys and/or good girls? Opinions on True Blood are also welcome.

 

[3113]

What are your thoughts on the attraction to bad boys and/or good girls? Opinions on True Blood are also welcome.

I am not a big True Blood fan--part of that is due to the fact that I'm burnt out on Vampires, and the other is that a lot of it seems pretty standard to current Vampire fare including not very smart characters. But I grant that, on the one hand, I can be demanding, and, on the other hand, that I have my own guilty pleasures so I certainly don't grudge others theirs.

That said, I think you're right in the "bad boy" attraction aspect here. It don't think it's giving too much away to say that Sookie is with a "good" vampire boyfriend who was, in being a vampire, originally the "forbidden fruit" and is now that she has him, she is being lured in by the "bad-boy" vamp who is the current forbidden fruit. I think this certainly does say something about bad boy/girl attraction. One thing it says is that people are often get bored with what they have and want what they feel they can't or shouldn't have; that "forbidden fruit." This being a story, Sookie can have him--but in the real world that isn't always the case. The girl marries the good boy, and the boy marries the good girl, but both may fantasize about sex with the bad boy/girl not because they really want them, or could handle them, but because they're with a known quality and the one they're not with is a mystery--exciting, unknown, unpredictable, alluring.

What is forbidden always arouses our excitement and curiosity. Also our desire to prove ourselves. No one else can tame the beast, but we're special and we bet we could do it!

The other aspect of this, of course, is the fiction aspect. In this case, the bad boy always seems to have a heart inside--he's only bad because of his tortured past or something like that. We see this again and again. A villain or anti-hero who becomes popular eventually is shown to be on the side of "good." The wild rebel is really not so bad.

And in this instance, the fantasy is that Sookie, the girl that most viewers are identifying with, is considered special by the vamps and desired. So she not only has the good vamp devoted to her, but now the bad vamp is devoted as well. Don't all women fantasize of that? Having both types of men thinking her special and wanting to romance her? And being so special that they'll change for her, do anything for her, turn away from the forces of darkness and fight for the forces of good? And sure enough, these two guys are almost always dark haired and tormented, the other always blond and wild. Nice that she gets to have both

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

It enhances self-esteem to prevail with a real challenge. Many people hate plastic trophies that are just too easy to get.

 

[trysail]

It's fairly simple:

• Estrogen/Testosterone
• Young
• Stupid

When mixed, they form a dangerously volatile and unstable chemical cocktail.

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

I'm not sure what causes such attractions, but I find them fascinating if only in theory. Most people are an amalgam of qualities with bits of bad and good and wild and tame in them. In fiction, though, there are more black/white dichotomies because they create drama.

I'm interested in fully-developed people with gradations and facets that surprise me. Grown-ups, I think might be the word for it. I like mature minds, brilliant expressions of thought, and versatile sensual modes.

The only people I've ever met who were "bad" or "good" exclusively were people playing parts and not being real. So, not very interesting to me in general.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'm not sure what causes such attractions, but I find them fascinating if only in theory. Most people are an amalgam of qualities with bits of bad and good and wild and tame in them. In fiction, though, there are more black/white dichotomies because they create drama.

I'm interested in fully-developed people with gradations and facets that surprise me. Grown-ups, I think might be the word for it. I like mature minds, brilliant expressions of thought, and versatile sensual modes.

The only people I've ever met who were "bad" or "good" exclusively were people playing parts and not being real. So, not very interesting to me in general.

Real evil exists in the world, and there is plenty of it.

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

Real evil exists in the world, and there is plenty of it.

Never said it didn't exist, sweetheart. It does, but it's often tossed in with some fairly human and alluring qualities that make it possible for evil to get ahold of the unsuspecting (i.e. Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer).

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Fiction, my foot. For decades I watched attractive, intelligent, well-brought up young ladies fall head over heels for douchebags. Never mind poor Harvey next door who works hard, loves kids, treats women with respect, etc., etc. No, what she wants is Spike from the biker gang. I simply don't understand. Does she really have some mad idea that all he needs is her undying devotion to turn into Harvey? Does she feel guilt about her station in life and has a need to be abused? I talk about this to my sixth graders at the end of the year and you would be horrified at the vigorously nodding heads from the girls. "My aunt!" is a common comment and let's not go there if Spike happens to be Dad. As a happily married Harvey I feel a need to go find a cathedral and light a hundred candles!

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

Binaries are just so dull, though, Mr. Bear! I don't believe in a world that is divided exclusively into either/ors. All men can't be classified as either Gradies or Spikes, can they? I mean, you seem to have a bit of both going on, which is why you're interesting. You know how to be cool and smooth-talk like a Spike, but you're a decent loving husband.

 

[3113]

[*]Young
[*]Stupid

If you think this sort of "stupidity" is limited to the young, then you've been out at sea far too long. Viewers of this show, lusting after that bad boy, I can assure you, come in all ages.

Fiction, my foot. For decades I watched attractive, intelligent, well-brought up young ladies fall head over heels for douchebags.

And for decades I've watched intelligent, well-brought up men married to good wives cheat and leave them for selfish, evil bitches. Please! The femme fatal has her real-life equivalent, too, and she often wins out over the sweet, next-door Jane about as many times as Spike wins out over Harvey. The difference is, or has been, that it's a lot easier for Harvey to wake up and leave his Femme Fatal and get on with his life then it is for Jane, terrified of and dependent on Spike, to wake up and leave him.

Which is not to say that there aren't Harveys trapped in abusive relationships, unable to leave. Just that it's historically been easier for Spike to trap Jane.

But the example above *IS* fiction, and I think Charley was asking if the allure of the good girl/bad boy romance in that fiction has to do with a common erotic fantasy of feeling "naughty" inside and wanting someone to recognize that and engage that "naughty" part. This may well translate to reality, but it's being acted out in the fiction.

Why men/women go off with the bad boy/girl who is no good for them rather than the good boy/girl who is good for them is often a far more complicated issue than just "I want to be naughty!" It can involve a lot of things, hormones of course, but also stupidity or rebellion, self-hatred, being abused as a child, and of course the fact that we're all delusional--on and on and on. In fiction, however, we often see a particular fantasy being played out. And I think the question here is about the fantasy of going off with the bad boy, not the reality of it which usually ends up horribly, and which no one with any common sense wants to really do. A man or woman may have romantic fantasies off running off with the bank robber, but few of us caught in an actual bank robbery will shout out to the robber: "Take me with you!"

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Eric Berne MD said we're always searching for the perfect people to star in our life scripts. The brooding Hamlet can never be the moonstruck Romeo.

 

[fastandsloppy]

Eric Berne MD said we're always searching for the perfect people to star in our life scripts. The brooding Hamlet can never be the moonstruck Romeo.

I don't know about that. In fact I don't know very many people who are consistent in their moods or motivations. The few I do are some of the most boring people I know.

We are all riding the pendulum as far as I can tell. I can go from Hamlet to Romeo several times in one day if things are going particularly looney in my life at the time.

You just have to weather the shit and savor the sunshine. That's all that I can figure out.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Boys, good and bad, are attracted to girls, good or bad. On this attraction rests the future of thre human race. If boys were not attracted to girls, we would not be posting smut on this site because we would be extinct.

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

I don't know about that. In fact I don't know very many people who are consistent in their moods or motivations. The few I do are some of the most boring people I know.

We are all riding the pendulum as far as I can tell. I can go from Hamlet to Romeo several times in one day if things are going particularly looney in my life at the time.

You just have to weather the shit and savor the sunshine. That's all that I can figure out.

Word!~

 

[MagicaPractica]

I dunno about anyone else, but I'm hooked on the HBO series, True Blood (Fantastic casting, great dialogue, and fabulous storylines). We were recently watching Season 2, Episode 9, "I Will Rise Up" and about halfway through the episode is a love scene between innocent, darling Sookie and cold, man-eating, but sizzling-hot Viking vampire-machine, Erik. To me, the events leading up to this scene and the scene itself epitomize the attraction that women have to bad boys and, vice versa, the attraction that men have to innocent good girls (I will focus only a little on the former, but feel free to add your two cents on the latter or both and in any scenario).

It's hard for me to write this without wanting to recount the whole series and specifically the scene in question, but I'd be ruining it for anyone who hasn't watched this episode and excluding everyone not familiar with the book or series. With this said, I will summarize the scene by "suggesting" that as innocent, moral and good as a character like Sookie can be, she doesn't want to be naughty (which seems a premise for much porn and even Hollywood scenarios), she wants someone to recognize that she already IS naughty and the bad boy does know this (the hero doesn't in this scenario) and that is one attraction.

What are your thoughts on the attraction to bad boys and/or good girls? Opinions on True Blood are also welcome.

I have not seen the television series but have read many of the books that the series is based on. I find it interesting that I don't believe this applies to the books. In the books Sookie is forced into taking blood from Eric three times to save her skin and that creates a bond that she struggles against. There is a softening of Eric's character before they really become involved.

 

[penandpaper]

Binaries are just so dull, though, Mr. Bear! I don't believe in a world that is divided exclusively into either/ors. All men can't be classified as either Gradies or Spikes, can they? I mean, you seem to have a bit of both going on, which is why you're interesting. You know how to be cool and smooth-talk like a Spike, but you're a decent loving husband.

I believe he is saying there are a host of men out there that treat women poorly. If they do that 50% of the time, they're still assholes. Hell, I would guess if it was 10% of time purposefully, they're still assholes. And I believe he's correct in that women (not all, but many) chase after them like chocolate. I can't explain it.

It was brought up on another thread that men also chase the "bitch." I don't think that's as true as vice-versa. Perhaps, it has to do with the physical protector image that a man portrays. Poor Gradie can't protect me, while Spike can? I don't know, but I've seen it happen enough that my wife and I call it the "asshole syndrome."

So true, we are not all good/evil, but there are nice guys and assholes. And assholes get laid a hell of a lot more. Albeit, at the detriment of a lasting loving relationship.

As for the show, I read the first book and had to drip chlorine in them to stop the pain. My wife loves the show and has read all the books. Her and her friends have True Blood parties. They're, I guess, really really big fans. I cook dinner and then come in here to write.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I believe he is saying there are a host of men out there that treat women poorly. If they do that 50% of the time, they're still assholes. Hell, I would guess if it was 10% of time purposefully, they're still assholes. And I believe he's correct in that women (not all, but many) chase after them like chocolate. I can't explain it.

It was brought up on another thread that men also chase the "bitch." I don't think that's as true as vice-versa. Perhaps, it has to do with the physical protector image that a man portrays. Poor Gradie can't protect me, while Spike can? I don't know, but I've seen it happen enough that my wife and I call it the "asshole syndrome."

So true, we are not all good/evil, but there are nice guys and assholes. And assholes get laid a hell of a lot more. Albeit, at the detriment of a lasting loving relationship.

As for the show, I read the first book and had to drip chlorine in them to stop the pain. My wife loves the show and has read all the books. Her and her friends have True Blood parties. They're, I guess, really really big fans. I cook dinner and then come in here to write.

Pretty much. I used to believe that 90% of guys were really decent sorts but the other 10% gave the rest of us a bad name. Then, one Annual Training in Arizona, a female captain and her female sergeant set me straight. "60% of men are jerks," quoth they "and finding one of the 40% who isn't already taken is a chore."

 

[FallingToFly]

I completely agree that there is real evil in the world.

I also have absolutely no patience for the True Blood series (it is SO far off the books, really) or the Twilight crap. Both, in my opinion, foster the idea that it's okay if you put up with a lot of shit from some guy as long as he's gorgeous and says he loves you more than anything.

I prefer my vampires like I prefer my chocolate- dark, dangerously bitter, and decidedly an occasional indulgence. I want a vampire to be BAD, not struggling wih morality, but embracing the fact that this is their life, and they're going to live it to the best of their ability. I adored Claudia from the Anne Rice books, and if I'm going to read vampire fiction I stick with Laurell K Hamilton, Keri Arthur, and Kim Harrison. Although I'm ready to take Anita Blake out and beat her retty petulant face in with the tires on my car.

To quote one of the best...

"Still whining, Louis? Have you heard enough? I've had to listen to this for CENTURIES!"

 

[Boxlicker101]

Pretty much. I used to believe that 90% of guys were really decent sorts but the other 10% gave the rest of us a bad name. Then, one Annual Training in Arizona, a female captain and her female sergeant set me straight. "60% of men are jerks," quoth they "and finding one of the 40% who isn't already taken is a chore."

That is really only the opinions of two people, and they are atypical. I'm not saying they are wrong; I'm just saying that is just the opinions of two women.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I completely agree that there is real evil in the world.

I also have absolutely no patience for the True Blood series (it is SO far off the books, really) or the Twilight crap. Both, in my opinion, foster the idea that it's okay if you put up with a lot of shit from some guy as long as he's gorgeous and says he loves you more than anything.

I prefer my vampires like I prefer my chocolate- dark, dangerously bitter, and decidedly an occasional indulgence. I want a vampire to be BAD, not struggling wih morality, but embracing the fact that this is their life, and they're going to live it to the best of their ability. I adored Claudia from the Anne Rice books, and if I'm going to read vampire fiction I stick with Laurell K Hamilton, Keri Arthur, and Kim Harrison. Although I'm ready to take Anita Blake out and beat her retty petulant face in with the tires on my car.

To quote one of the best...

"Still whining, Louis? Have you heard enough? I've had to listen to this for CENTURIES!"

This is a strange post to me. I think of a vampire book as being like "Dracula" who was strictly evil.

 

[Verdad]

Yep, women display a staggering lack of good judgment. Why they should dream of dashing vampires when they could be dreaming of balding accountants defies any rational explanation. It must be one of those ineffable mysteries of femininity.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Yep, women display a staggering lack of good judgment. Why they should dream of dashing vampires when they could be dreaming of balding accountants defies any rational explanation. It must be one of those ineffable mysteries of femininity.

Well, wanting excitement is no mystery, but what is a mystery is why they then complain about the way those "dashing vampires" treat them, especially when they know they've treated other women the same way.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I don't know about that. In fact I don't know very many people who are consistent in their moods or motivations. The few I do are some of the most boring people I know.

We are all riding the pendulum as far as I can tell. I can go from Hamlet to Romeo several times in one day if things are going particularly looney in my life at the time.

You just have to weather the shit and savor the sunshine. That's all that I can figure out.

Birds of a feather flock together, of course. What we observe is what we're part of. But fully 2/3rds of people are stable and consistent and the same over time. They and their partners do not experience boredom with each other.

The rest of us are stress junkies, preferring total chaos in our lives or becoming mercenaries and mountain climbers.

 

[Boota]

My favorite example of a woman wanting the bad boy over the safe man is from The Simpsons. Mr. Burns is dating a cop and she leaves him for Snake, the biker criminal. She tells him, "Sorry Monty, but I love a bad boy." To which he replies, "Hey, I'm a bad boy. In fact, I'm downright evil!"

In my life I should be sued for false advertising. Women have always seen me as the bad boy, but it's not true. I'm actually the safe responsible type packaged as a bad boy.

Women who go for the bad boy all the time I find frustrating. My cousin, who just died yesterday morning in the midst of dealing with another bad boy, was like that. She left a good solid man she had a child with in order to run and be wild, hooking up with some of the biggest abusive losers I have ever seen. She wasn't beaten by this guy, she died in a car wreck that pretty much happened because she was out running around with guys like that. Drunk at 4 am, driving crazy. Being the bad girl that she really wasn't. Her last boyfriend before the guy she was with when she rolled her car used to beat her all the time. (Until her 14 year old son beat the shit out of him last Christmas.) She could have had any number of good men who would have treated her great and instead she followed the bad boys down a path of destruction. It's not an uncommon story, of course, and it will never change. It's just frustrating from the outside when you can see what's coming and can't do anything about it.

 

[impressive]

Yep, women display a staggering lack of good judgment. Why they should dream of dashing vampires when they could be dreaming of balding accountants defies any rational explanation. It must be one of those ineffable mysteries of femininity.

"Bad" in the case of the stereotypical attraction, IMO, doesn't really apply to evil-bad. It applies to rebel-bad. The exciting, wild, dangerous, non-conformist one who goes after what s/he wants and doesn't give a rat's ass about popular opinion. And the attraction doesn't follow gender lines. I find both rebel-bad men & women wicked HAWT.

We want to escape from our mundane lives, and the rebel-bad pave the way.

** POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD **




















As for True Blood, there are plot devices that I really like. Sookie's thought-hearing is cool. The fact that the paranormal is not limited to vampires is cool. I like the way shifters are portrayed as having a "default" form but the ability to assume others with effort.

I like how there's a black market for vampire blood as a drug. I like how there's a generic alternative to human blood so that vampires don't *have* to feast on humans... that it's as "nutritious" but not as yummy as the real thing. Kind of like Ensure versus a four course steak dinner.

I've only watched the first season, but I've followed the website for this year -- and it seems as if the story lines are falling in to a tired serial soap opera mold, which is disappointing.

As for the acting, the only characters that have impressed me are Tara & Lafayette. They seem to have more depth than the others.

Haven't read the books. Don't plan to unless I stumble upon a compelling reason.


ETA: This design I made for the Coming Together Cafe Press store is selling very well:

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