Why we need universal health care - to prevent acts of murder like this...

[Le Jacquelope]

Here is solid proof that private insurance corporations kill people.

http://cbs2.com/local/nataline.sarkisyan.CIGNA.2.615167.html

Cancer Girl's Lawyer Blames CIGNA For Her Death
GLENDALE, Calif. (CBS) ― Doctors say the liver transplant would have saved Nataline Sarkiyan's life.

An insurance company that initially refused to pay for a liver transplant for a 17-year-old Northridge girl who died in a hospital should face criminal charges and pay civil damages, an attorney for the girl's family said Friday.

Cigna HealthCare "literally, maliciously killed" Nataline Sarkisyan, attorney Mark Geragos told reporters in downtown Los Angeles.

Sarkisyan died at 5:50 p.m. Thursday after being pulled off life support at UCLA Medical Center.

Geragos said Cigna twice took Sarkisyan off the liver transplant list
and purposely waited until she was near death to approve the transplant because the company didn't want to pay for her after-care.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Cherry picking again for an emotive argument?





Why can't you use reason Dr. LT?




Do you have ALL the facts or just the ones you wanted to present?

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

n a statement issued yesterday after it had approved the transplant, the company said the procedure "was outside the scope of the plan's coverage." "... and despite the lack of medical evidence regarding the effectiveness of such treatment, Cigna HealthCare has decided to make an exception in this rare and unusual case, and we will provide coverage should she proceed with the requested liver transplant. Our thoughts and prayers are with Nataline and her family at this time."

At what point are people supposed to read and understand that which they are buying Dr. LT?

At what point do we decide we're smarter than doctors if we can't even comprehend a basic insurance policy or a medical diagnosis?

At what point do we stand up and demand that Congress actually read and understand the laws they are passing in knee-jerk reaction to emotional appeals with little or no basis in reason?

 

[where]

At what point are people supposed to read and understand that which they are buying Dr. LT?

At what point do we decide we're smarter than doctors if we can't even comprehend a basic insurance policy or a medical diagnosis?

At what point do we stand up and demand that Congress actually read and understand the laws they are passing in knee-jerk reaction to emotional appeals with little or no basis in reason?

if this case cited by le jerk had been in the UK, you would have called it rationing or a death panel.

 

[The Gimp]

How do you come to the conclusion that universal health care would have kept this young woman alive? If the government were to mandate that everybody must be given a transplant regardless of their ability to pay, then the waiting list would stretch around the block. Rather than being stuck without coverage, she would stuck on a waiting list.

 

[LeRoiMStokes]

At what point are people supposed to read and understand that which they are buying Dr. LT?

That jackass is a doctor?

 

[where]

How do you come to the conclusion that universal health care would have kept this young woman alive? If the government were to mandate that everybody must be given a transplant regardless of their ability to pay, then the waiting list would stretch around the block. Rather than being stuck without coverage, she would stuck on a waiting list.

I think his point was that she wouldn't have had to wait for a company to approve the treatment. But it returns to the point i have made repeatedly, which is that ALL healthcare, public or private is rationed in some sense.

 

[Liar]

I think his point was that she wouldn't have had to wait for a company to approve the treatment. But it returns to the point i have made repeatedly, which is that ALL healthcare, public or private is rationed in some sense.

Yep.

So the question is: is there a middle road that does away with the worst types of rationing on the private side, without meley replacing them with equally bad rationing on the public side? Clever regulation and a revamp of the health care incentive structure can probably get most of that done.

 

[oddity83]

Do you believe that the government would have do any different? When it boils down to cutting cost there will be not one difference between private and fed controlled health care. They will both be seeking ways to save money and be damned the out come.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Do you believe that the government would have do any different?

Hell yes I do. A Government based system would be accountable to the voters and would be concerned about saving lives. A private system only cares about profit.

Heads would roll if the Government pulled this shit. Politicians would fear for their careers. Not so with private corporations. They kill with impunity.

 

[colddiesel]

Here is solid proof that private insurance corporations kill people.

http://cbs2.com/local/nataline.sarkisyan.CIGNA.2.615167.html

Cancer Girl's Lawyer Blames CIGNA For Her Death

.

le Jerk's solid proof is an unsubstantiated claim made by a litigation lawyer hoping to earn a fat fee.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

le Jerk's solid proof is an unsubstantiated claim made by a litigation lawyer hoping to earn a fat fee.

What Cold Weasel doesn't realize is that

Doctors say the liver transplant would have saved Nataline Sarkiyan's life.

You just wanted a non-white woman to drop dead instead of receiving treatment that doctors said would save her life.

 

[Redatlit]

Here is solid proof that private insurance corporations kill people.

http://cbs2.com/local/nataline.sarkisyan.CIGNA.2.615167.html

Cancer Girl's Lawyer Blames CIGNA For Her Death
GLENDALE, Calif. (CBS) ― Doctors say the liver transplant would have saved Nataline Sarkiyan's life.

An insurance company that initially refused to pay for a liver transplant for a 17-year-old Northridge girl who died in a hospital should face criminal charges and pay civil damages, an attorney for the girl's family said Friday.

Cigna HealthCare "literally, maliciously killed" Nataline Sarkisyan, attorney Mark Geragos told reporters in downtown Los Angeles.

Sarkisyan died at 5:50 p.m. Thursday after being pulled off life support at UCLA Medical Center.

Geragos said Cigna twice took Sarkisyan off the liver transplant list
and purposely waited until she was near death to approve the transplant because the company didn't want to pay for her after-care.

What fucking moron you are. A two year old story that has been hashed out before? Please.

What in the fuck makes your dumb ass think that the government would have ok'd a transplant for this girl?

The idea that the government is going to pay for all procedures that have been denied by insurance companies is ludicrous. U R DUM.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Heh, Weasel boy, I hope your kid needs a liver transplant and is denied one by your insurance company. It would serve you right.

 

[Redatlit]

Heh, Weasel boy, I hope your kid needs a liver transplant and is denied one by your insurance company. It would serve you right.

And what about the child? Would it serve him right too? Wishing death on a child because of something his father said? You are a despicable piece of garbage.

 

[philosophygirl]

I wonder how long did the 'Dallas' star have to wait for his new liver? How much did his money and fame help?

 

[Redatlit]

I wonder how long did the 'Dallas' star have to wait for his new liver? How much did his money and fame help?

Perhaps he actually paid for it? Do you know? Also, do you know if the Dallas star was a ill as the girl in question? How did his prognosis compare to hers? Should we always say "yes". As callous as it sounds is there a time when maybe six months of extra life is not worth $500,000? Do we have an obligation to think about that as we try to actually cut costs? Where's the line?

I'm in favor of a form of universal health care, but people seem to have this idea that, that means unlimited access to everything and anything health care related. People are living with the delusion that no one will ever again be denied anything. Both Canada and the UK have single payer systems and they do roughly half the number of transplants that we do here in the states. Does anyone think that if that's the case, this 17 year old would have received her transplant in those systems?

 

[Le Jacquelope]

The ultimate truth about people like ColdWeasel and BigGator5 is they believe that this can't happen to them.

Soon as it does, though, their tune changes. If, of course, they survive.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

And if some Republotard wants to let themselves die because they can't get a liver under the private insurance system, you go for it dude.

But the rest of us want to live and we'll do what it takes to stay alive. Including voting for Universal Health Care.

 

[philosophygirl]

Perhaps he actually paid for it? Do you know? Also, do you know if the Dallas star was a ill as the girl in question? How did his prognosis compare to hers? Should we always say "yes". As callous as it sounds is there a time when maybe six months of extra life is not worth $500,000? Do we have an obligation to think about that as we try to actually cut costs? Where's the line?

A better question would be why does it have to cost $500,000 or whatever? Why is it such a lofty price tag? How many pockets need to get filled...and how many pockets can be cut out of the math?

 

[Redatlit]

A better question would be why does it have to cost $500,000 or whatever? Why is such a lofty price tag? How many pockets need to get filled...and how many pockets can be cut out of the math?

Well, what's involved in a transplant for an incredibly ill person? Do you have any idea?

I love people who assume the money is all going into someone's pockets. There are no costs in testing patient or donor pre transplant. The instrumentation for said testing and the technician expertise are highly overrated. They could save so much money if they employed some laid off warehouse workers and used outdated instruments.

The hours of surgery on both donor and recipient often involving multiple specialty surgeons cost very little. Seriously, just rip out the liver and let the local GP stitch it into place.

The high speed trip of the organ from donor to recipient, often via helicopter, is peanuts. Cab that bad boy.

The anti rejection drugs are cheap. The tests upon tests performed on the recipient post transplant are soooooo cheap and require little technology and even less expertise. Why bother? Just let it go, if the patient rejects the organ then we all save money. Woohoo!!

The ICU room and 24/7 specialty nursing care post transplant is also a pittance. Seriously, the cleaning lady could handle the job, why overpay nurses?

Seriously, a transplant on an incredibly sick individual shouldn't cost more than a few thousand.

(of course that only touched on the costs, there are so many more)

 

[philosophygirl]

I know there are many costs. And others you didn't mention. The value of human life vs every cog in the wheel...every over-charge along the line...every person unwilling to care as long they get theirs...what's the price of that one?

The girl is one case. A heartbreaking one at that.

While we are at it...lets say screw it...to all those poor slobs who wind up with something that should have been treatable but are gifted something a hell of a lot worse because they can't afford well care. And don't tell me that doesn't happen...I have seen it.

I wonder where one can buy compassion? Is it sold wholesale? If so...we need tons to dump on the world. But that would cause global warming and the possible growth of a heart.

 

[mark_j]

This thread has nothing to do with universal health care, private insurance or anything else for that matter.

This is LT's strawman.

It is SOP to blame the Republicans.

When all other logical arguments fail, pass the buck and blame someone else.

 

[Ham Murabi]

Hell yes I do. A Government based system would be accountable to the voters and would be concerned about saving lives. A private system only cares about profit.

Heads would roll if the Government pulled this shit. Politicians would fear for their careers. Not so with private corporations. They kill with impunity.

Simply not true. If that were the case, what would be the point of taking $500 billion out of Medicare to balance the books and create a fictitious 10-year surplus for the current Senate bill?
Government resources are finite. Name one government service that isn't rationed.

 

[Liar]

Name one government service that isn't rationed.

Name one service that isn't.

"Government service is rationed!" is a red herring. Every goods or service provided, public or private, is made under a budget. Nobody builds a car for $100.000 that people don't want to buy for more than $40.000. The size and/or quality of the food on the plate is rationed in accordance to how much you're willing to pay for it.

In the case of public Health Care (or any other public service), it's the collective customer, the tax payers, that ultimately decide the price point. And in doing so, the size and quality.