Why the disdain for male submissives?

[bridgeburner]

Why don't male submissives get the same respect that female submissives do? Many of the attitudes I've heard expressed about male submissives would incite a riot if only the gender were reveresed.

We don't accuse female submissives of being weak. We don't accuse female Dominants of being unnatural. (Unless we don't mind looking like complete asshats)

Is it just ingrained sexism rearing its ugly head or is it something more?


-B

 

[gingermango]

Good question. On the other hand, if you stay out of clubs and limit your play to friends and close aquaintances (as we do), this does not seem to be much of an issue.

Generally, however, it has been our experience that male submissives are a dime a dozen. Perhaps I exaggerate a bit, but for every pretty sub girl who wants to play with Goddess, she runs across literally 6 or 8 men who claim to want to postrate themselves at her feet and lick her boots to prove devotion. Whether those men are truly sub or just playing a role in an attempt to get laid is another question of course, but the sheer numbers of male subs or wannabe-subs seems staggering.

 

[Shankara20]

Why don't male submissives get the same respect that female submissives do? Many of the attitudes I've heard expressed about male submissives would incite a riot if only the gender were reveresed.

We don't accuse female submissives of being weak. We don't accuse female Dominants of being unnatural. (Unless we don't mind looking like complete asshats)

Is it just ingrained sexism rearing its ugly head or is it something more?


-B

man oh man - Where do I start with this? It is a great question and I look forward to the responses.

I’ll start slow and easy. I came into the community as a sub (me=male FYI) and was stunned by the shear competition – we were a dime-a-dozen. Some, most, were not well behaved. Some were trying to Top from the bottom and were not really willing to be submissive if things did not go the exact direction they wanted. Some were creepy and some were downright dangerous.

Those few give the rest of us a real problem at being take seriously. I am an advocate for men. I think we are given a bad rap. I also think it is our own fault for not holding the few creeps to task.

More as the conversation develops.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Odd lady out here as my experience with male subs for the most part has been all good, with only the rare wannabe...OTOH, female subs abound in numbers, attitude, and game playing methods which do not lead anywhere but in collecting trophy emails and contacts without anything more. Maybe it is a European thing but they are like chalk and cheese. Males seem to show respect without appearing fake, are intelligent, are not looking for stereotypical PYL's stepping from the pages of your latest porn site, basically willing to explore and experience new things while the female experience is one of long lists of what they will not do or accept, demands to be number one and worshipped, play the cutsie ditsy role to the hilt, have bad attitudes, and are not interested in going further than online chatting if that, and don't dare try and engage in a converszation about anything other than how they will get to orgasm. LOL, is a pain, but we continue to live in hope.

Catalina

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Why don't male submissives get the same respect that female submissives do? Many of the attitudes I've heard expressed about male submissives would incite a riot if only the gender were reveresed.

We don't accuse female submissives of being weak. We don't accuse female Dominants of being unnatural. (Unless we don't mind looking like complete asshats)

Is it just ingrained sexism rearing its ugly head or is it something more?


-B

Ohh Miss Bridge, interesting topic and appreciated.

I have seen both sides of this coin but in general I am with you. I have been appalled by the way some male submissives are treated and stereotyped in a negative manner. I also feel the ones I know really do suffer disadvantages first hand on so many fronts less likely than females do . I will include in my comments submissives whom are transgender.

This may be reverse sexism but I generally feel male submissives have if anything to be stronger on several fronts than females do just to have some kind of general 'status' that female submissives may possibly at times take for granted.

Often emasculated for being submissive or should they identify within the context of 'maid' or 'sissy' the stigmatization becomes rampant. We all stand to be parodies but I can state it irks me that male submissives are often the 'whipping boys' for lack of respect.

Probably add more to this Thread later, its VERY early here and I haven't put the day brain in yet..........apologies.

 

[bridgeburner]

I think there is something to the argument that there are an overabundance of undesirable males who claim to be subs. Whether that's because there are too many of them to go around and so most of them lack training or whether there are just a lot of men taking on the label in the hopes of getting laid I honestly couldn't say.

Rebecca addresses what I'm really getting at, though. Regardless of the "quality", there seems to be a real disdain for the very idea of a male submissive. People claim not to understand it in such a way as to imply it's the same lack of understanding they hold for bug eating.

There's a sort of pervasive feeling that male submissives are weak or whiny or needy --- not because they are badly behaved submissives but because they are male.

 

[Shankara20]

I think there is something to the argument that there are an overabundance of undesirable males who claim to be subs. Whether that's because there are too many of them to go around and so most of them lack training or whether there are just a lot of men taking on the label in the hopes of getting laid I honestly couldn't say.

Rebecca addresses what I'm really getting at, though. Regardless of the "quality", there seems to be a real disdain for the very idea of a male submissive. People claim not to understand it in such a way as to imply it's the same lack of understanding they hold for bug eating.

There's a sort of pervasive feeling that male submissives are weak or whiny or needy --- not because they are badly behaved submissives but because they are male.

The ice get a little thin out here, but this is a very good question.

Do you know the word "misogyny"? Many do and most in the woman rights movement toss it around rather lightly. Most do not know the word "misandry".

I drop back in when things calm down here at work (i am steeling time from my boss hee hee)

 

[graceanne]

(me=male FYI)

You're a GUY? Damn, I thought you were just a hairy, flat chested chick.

I'm sorry I can't be friend with you anymore. Male subs are weird.

(And for those who don't have a sense of humor - I'M JOKING!)

 

[bridgeburner]

The ice get a little thin out here, but this is a very good question.

Do you know the word "misogyny"? Many do and most in the woman rights movement toss it around rather lightly. Most do not know the word "misandry".

I drop back in when things calm down here at work (i am steeling time from my boss hee hee)

Yes, I'm familiar with the word. I'm wondering how much disdain there is for the the submissive position in general but that we've channeled into only one gender because it's sexist to pick on women. ;->

 

[alice_underneath]

Why the disdain for male submissives?

First, a disclaimer about my perspective. The only BDSM community with which I have had contact is this one at Lit.

I have disdain for very few people here, and the reasons for my lack of respect have nothing to do with gender, orientation, PYL/pyl, etc. For me, it's a character thing.

I was surprised to see a thread called, "Bi-Women: can you or can't you submit to another woman" on this Board. Asking a female, bisexual pyl if she could submit to a woman sorta reminds me of conversations on the topic - Ladies, could you work for a female boss?

This makes me wonder if you might be correct about "ingrained sexism", B. Perhaps some role expectations are just really, really hard to dispel from the collective subconscious.

 

[Shankara20]

You're a GUY? Damn, I thought you were just a hairy, flat chested chick.

I'm sorry I can't be friend with you anymore. Male subs are weird.

(And for those who don't have a sense of humor - I'M JOKING!)

Flat? I'll have you know I am a "A" cup, well better in a "AA" cup.

And who ever said I was a sub NOW!!!! Been there done that!
ooooooooo I so want to say "on your knees bitch" but this is not my thread and I am not in the mood for a hijack.. and I think I just got my panties in a bunch
(joke back at ya)

 

[catalina_francisco]

First, a disclaimer about my perspective. The only BDSM community with which I have had contact is this one at Lit.

I have disdain for very few people here, and the reasons for my lack of respect have nothing to do with gender, orientation, PYL/pyl, etc. For me, it's a character thing.

I was surprised to see a thread called, "Bi-Women: can you or can't you submit to another woman" on this Board. Asking a female, bisexual pyl if she could submit to a woman sorta reminds me of conversations on the topic - Ladies, could you work for a female boss?

This makes me wonder if you might be correct about "ingrained sexism", B. Perhaps some role expectations are just really, really hard to dispel from the collective subconscious.

If the mood of that thread related to sexist reasoning, how is it that I as a bisexual woman who is also a feminist is not comfortable submitting to another woman? It is nothing to do with sexism, but a lot to do with trust issues from past experiences and allowing another to have power over you. My personal experiences have been with women who thrived on bringing others down in a bad way, be they women or men, so on the whole I am not comfortable putting myself in a position of submission to women in a role where they are within their rights to have power and control over me.


I do see where BB is going with this in terms of people having a view of male subs which does not necessarily correspond with reality, but I also see people have that attitude towards anyone who submits, male or female. There are those who simply cannot handle the confrontation of emotions submission arouses in them, usually based on an inability or failure to deal with their own deepset issues which finds an outlet in discriminating against submissives who trigger them. Many posts on this forum alone will reflect a belief, either jokingly or not, that submission is inferior and weak, even to the point of some submissives nurturing that view by their words and/or behaviour. I haven't seen the abundance of male subs in ratio to female subs, though more men are coming out of the closet so to speak when they feel safe enough with someone.

Catalina

 

[delboccore]

Excellent topic.

I would agree that most of the disdain or sneering involved comes from the fact that there are so many men out there who are or claim to be subs. The same situation occurs in the swing lifestyle. The dirth of single men causes those who are serious into either lifestyle to be looked down upon.
I suppose it's like any other thing in life, you can't judge a book by it's cover and you can't use labels.
Thankfully we are all different and life is truly interesting because of it!

 

[Shankara20]

Yes, I'm familiar with the word. I'm wondering how much disdain there is for the the submissive position in general but that we've channeled into only one gender because it's sexist to pick on women. ;->

Not address your interesting referance to how we, in general, feel about he submissive position, I'll stay with the gender focus for a moment.

I think there is also a bit of momentum from the feminist movements, and backlash from thousands of years of patriarchal repression. Take a look at how men are portrayed in the newspaper funnies and sitcoms in the U.S. of A. – thank the goddess we don’t portray women that way any longer but what does it say about how men are viewed in general?

More thoughts are on the way....

 

[DeeJayPip]

I'm new here...
Personally, I'd kill to have a sub male. I'm starting to think that I'm a dom female, as I did NOT like being with a man who tried to put our relationship into a traditional heterosexual relationship. Now I'm with a sub female and I'm happy.

Anyone know if there is a better BDSM forum?

 

[graceanne]

Flat? I'll have you know I am a "A" cup, well better in a "AA" cup.

And who ever said I was a sub NOW!!!! Been there done that!
ooooooooo I so want to say "on your knees bitch" but this is not my thread and I am not in the mood for a hijack.. and I think I just got my panties in a bunch
(joke back at ya)

Oh, well excuse me. That's a lot of boob you've got there. Maybe I just didn't notice since compared to me YOUR'E FLAT!

And you say bitch like it's a bad thing.

 

[Shankara20]

compared to me YOUR'E FLAT!

BRAG BRAG BRAG.....


you big tited bitch

 

[graceanne]

BRAG BRAG BRAG.....


you big tited bitch

Yeah, you're just jealous.

 

[Shankara20]

Yeah, you're just jealous.

*sniff sniff*
yes I am
*sniff sniff*

 

[catalina_francisco]

This is so screaming out for attention!!

Catalina

 

[graceanne]

Ok, ok. I can take a hint.

 

[NemoAlia]

I'm new here...
Personally, I'd kill to have a sub male. I'm starting to think that I'm a dom female, as I did NOT like being with a man who tried to put our relationship into a traditional heterosexual relationship. Now I'm with a sub female and I'm happy.

Anyone know if there is a better BDSM forum?

Hey, DeeJay! Welcome aboard. I don't know if "better" is possible, when you're comparing other forums to literotica, but there are at least alternatives. The collarme.com and alt.com forums are popular, and serve many people well.

Enjoy your time here, and wherever else you wind up!

 

[RJMasters]

Is it just ingrained sexism rearing its ugly head?
-B

Yes

or is it something more?

Closeminded-ness

The inability to accept others as they are.

 

[graceanne]

Truthfully I think it's fear. People fear what they don't understand. And where their's fear there'll be anger. Basicly, people suck. Welcome to life.

 

[leeroy jenkins]

I know that in Apex I have seen several male subs and maybe a few transgendered ones too. The best I can share is what this one Femdom said to me on our latest munch. We were talking about playing and she said she plays mostly with woman because the male subs she has run into want her to constantly prove her dominance over them. She feels like why should she waste time with that when she can have a woman who will obey without the fuss. I think Shank is right maybe some of the male subs just don't have their heart in it or are playing at being submissive??