Why so many Anti-American?

[Lord DragonsWing]

Okay, Maybe I've got this wrong. But I've seen more insults and stats posted against America and out culture here than I've ever seen anywhere else.

We're not perfect. We admit that. Our healthcare system needs revamping, we argue between ourselves about being republican, democrat or independent. We take insults from every country in the world it seems, but everyone ask also ask us for help. We pour billions into the world economy, we find new drugs and our patients pay more than most of the world for them. Shall I continue?

Everytime I turn around it seems someone is putting down America. I'm sorry but I served my country proudly. The same as any Britsh Lancer or French Legionairre. What makes you guys hate us so?

Our pharmacies develop meds and give them to you at a lower cost than we pay. Our farmers ship wheat across the world to help out. We pay the arabs for oil that is not even produced yet, we send our children off to fight for freedom and to die. Yet every time we turn around you put us down. Why?

The list can go on and on. But America and it's citizens doesn't deserve it anymore. If you don't like us then leave us alone. If you have a problem I'd suggest you do like the rest of us do and write our Senators and Representives. Just please, I'm tired of seeing the anti-american sentiment. Before you put us down work out your own affairs.

 

[oggbashan]

LDW,

Not all of us are anti-American. Some of us remember the sacrifices made by Americans to free Europe in WWII.

The USA is a great country and a force for good in the world. But, and it has to be said, some of your government's actions have been and still are difficult for other countries to accept.

For example:
The Kyoto agreement on global warming is not supported by the US and each US citizen uses more energy than dozens if not hundreds of people in the 3rd world. The UK Government has recently admitted that it is not on track to deliver the reduction in carbon emissions that it signed up for. At least we are trying and know that we have more to do. The US Government is evading the issue because it would be unpopular with the voters.

We distinguish between the actions of the US Government, the US armed forces and individual citizens. The Armed Forces are doing what they have been asked to do. We support them in their actions and regret every US soldier killed or wounded. We welcome US citizens to this country while our citizens get turned away from the US for being suspected terrorists when trying to holiday in Florida.

Many US citizens hate their government. Many UK citizens hate our government. If a different government were to be elected in either country the hatred of government would continue with different people hating it.

The UK are friends and allies of the US. We consider that we have a right to say when we think the US government is being unwise BUT when the chips are down we'll be there. The US is critical of our government from time to time. So what? So are many of the UK's citizens. Friends can argue, discuss, debate and still say friends.

What is more worrying is that the US Government ignores the wider causes of hatred against the US until something dreadful happens. Until it is made clear by acts and deeds, not words, that the US is not against the people of Islamic countries then the hatred can be used by unscrupulous people to generate suicide bombers. Hearts and minds have to be won and that battle is not helped by Guantanamo Bay and disregard of the Geneva Convention.

Og

 

[CharleyH]

Yet every time we turn around you put us down. Why?

Because I have travelled through Ohio, and lived in L.A.

Merry Christmas LDW!

 

[SummerMorning]

We pour billions into the world economy

...actually I think its the other way around.

but more or less what Og said.

 

[SummerMorning]

But if you want a more concise response...

First, I'd take issue with your statement that certain positions are "anti-american." I think what you actually mean is that certain positions are opposed to what you view as American. You must realise that "America" is a concept. There is no "real" America. When you say America, you are trying to approximate a bundle of disparate ideas and concepts... such as liberty, freedom, dollars, guns, etc. (doesn't really matter what they are). Now, all these concepts bundled under the signifier "America" are what you see as being opposed by that which you term anti-American.

OK. I'm being horribly dense here, and I think I'm mumbling while typing. What I'm trying to say is, that there are many different views of what constitutes "American" and that the concept itself is continually de- and reconstructed through a dialogue.

I have a feeling that what you're seeing on this board is not so much anti-americanism as different americanisms.

You see, I very much doubt anybody is preaching that America should be dissolved because it's a Bad place, and the subsequent midget states placed under enlightened old world tutelage. That would be anti-americanism - opposition to the very existence of america.

Did any of that make sense?

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Why so many Anti-American?

Because I have travelled through Ohio, and lived in L.A.

Merry Christmas LDW!

You have a problem with Ohio?

 

[CharleyH]

Re: Re: Re: Why so many Anti-American?

You have a problem with Ohio?

Well, I guess it beats Buffalo.

 

[cantdog]

The glitter of Cleveland!



I kinda liked sleepy little Ashtabula. It would be a place you'd need to dig yourself out a lot in the wintertime, but folks were friendly to strangers.

 

[TheEarl]

Okay, Maybe I've got this wrong. But I've seen more insults and stats posted against America and out culture here than I've ever seen anywhere else.

We're not perfect. We admit that. Our healthcare system needs revamping, we argue between ourselves about being republican, democrat or independent. We take insults from every country in the world it seems, but everyone ask also ask us for help. We pour billions into the world economy, we find new drugs and our patients pay more than most of the world for them. Shall I continue?

Everytime I turn around it seems someone is putting down America. I'm sorry but I served my country proudly. The same as any Britsh Lancer or French Legionairre. What makes you guys hate us so?

Our pharmacies develop meds and give them to you at a lower cost than we pay. Our farmers ship wheat across the world to help out. We pay the arabs for oil that is not even produced yet, we send our children off to fight for freedom and to die. Yet every time we turn around you put us down. Why?

The list can go on and on. But America and it's citizens doesn't deserve it anymore. If you don't like us then leave us alone. If you have a problem I'd suggest you do like the rest of us do and write our Senators and Representives. Just please, I'm tired of seeing the anti-american sentiment. Before you put us down work out your own affairs.

A man who is proud of his country is a man who I can empathise with. I am just as strident in the defence and promotion of England.

However, I will offer a counter-argument. The reason a lot of people have issues with America is the same reason people used to hate the British Empire - if you wanted you could take any country in the world and what's more you know it.

Countries ask you for help, that's true, but you also take it upon yourself to offer 'help' when none was asked for. Suez springs immediately to mind, where you shafted two of your staunchest allies and crushed their economies on a whim. A good case could also be made for your 'help' of Iraq, although that is not the issue here.

You have a lot of trading power and support lots of economies, that's true, but you have been known to use that power to twist allies to your own ends. You export your version of what is 'right' and declare that your ideal should be everyone's ideal - who says presidential democracy works for every nation? You have power and, not only do you use it, it makes you well nigh invulnerable to repercussions. Your politicians make selfish decisions on behalf of your people, which negatively affect the rest of the world.

And if that's not enough - amicus!

I do appreciate that America has done a lot of good things, but you have to accept that some level of anti-Americanism is going to be there, simply because of some of the bastard-like things your country has done to ours. I have to deal with this whenever anyone mentions some of the things done by the British Empire. If you've got power, and you misuse it just the once, then people won't let you forget it. At the risk of quoting Spiderman 'With great power, comes great responsibility.'

The Earl

 

[Liar]

I think putting the label "Anti American" on someone critisizing a policy conducted by their current administration is wrong. Applying it to everyone who speaks up against it's political policies is just turning it into a watered out buzzword.

I like America. It's a great nation of freedom, individualism and opportunity, as diverse as the world at large. I love the people, the culture and most everything it stands for. I have objected against it's current administrations policies on assorted issues. Because this is a free land, where open exchange and debate of opinions is crucial for the democracy.

But I'm not a US citizen, so you say I should leave you alone. Oh, I would, if America would leave me alone. I don't put any judgement in that, just stating that the fact of the matter is this:

America affects me.
Sometimes more than my own country do.

It affects everybody. LDW, you live, and proudly so, in the most powerful nation in the world. What the US do and decide affects everybody on the whole planet. Everybody. Everywhere. The world politics, security, economics and enviroment is directly or by proxy directed from USA. We live in a world community these days. Everything is connected. When your president makes a public statement on this or that domestic issue, the interrest rate on my loans change. Here in Sweden, on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. And I'm not even talking about the foreign policy yet. No single factor in the world comes even close to the impact of American actions. The EU a counterweight? In some political strategist's wet dreams perhaps.

If my tiny little bug of a homeland ever manage to do something that has any kind of effect on your life, feel free to bash away at your heart's content. I'm sick and tired of people telling me to mind my own business when this behemoth of a neighbor I've got is throwing stuff over the fence into my back yard. Sometimes it is gold coins and Christmas presents and sometimes yesterday's garbage. That doesn't matter. It's my back yard, and you're in it.

Lastly, I think the most and loudest voices here of what you call Anti-Americanism actually comes from Americans who are concerned about the state of their nation.



#L

 

[Lisa Denton]

Hi LDW, there is lots of criticism of america from americans. At least the most vocal I have seen has been from americans, or commie pinko spies who say they are from america.

I try to distinguish between the anti-present administration stuff and the weirdos. I am sure if you wore the uniform you at times felt the pride of being one of the best of the best. The damage done by the present administration is already something that will take decades at best to undo, in order to show the world that our intentions were good, while our deeds were criminal incompetence or outright lunatic insanity.

DFW airport is where many troops from Irag getting leave come into, to get connecting flights to other parts of the country and stuff. They showed on the news yesterday as some troops came in and was surprised by the huge greetings they got as peoples wanted to shake their hands and say WELCOME HOME.

They was surprised and proud, little kids looking up at them and all these people took time out of the holidays to greet them as they first set foot on american soil after a long time. One man recalled his experience returning from vietnam and got all choked up when he said thats why he was there to say thanks to these brave young men and women. of course with all the reserves and guards called up some of them was not even that young, but all proud and surprised.

No one was there to support american policies or government decisions or nothing, they were there to support brave soldiers who faced danger and saw their friends hurt and killed as they did what the country they loved said for them to do.

I talked to a young man yesterday who enters basic training next week. He understands his first posting will be Afganistan or Iraq. He also said if he makes the military a career he hopes to, maybe not for years, but one day walk with pride into a country to help feed and shelter those who will thank him and his country for coming to help them, as his country once again stands as proud as he does, god bless him.

 

[Liar]

Re: Re: Re: Why so many Anti-American?

You have a problem with Ohio?

The vowel/consonant ratio of the name is a little suspicios. As if that was the only Scrabbles bricks they had left.


#L

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Just as you’re sick and tired of people being anti-American, I’m sick and tired of being lablled anti-American every time I criticize a government policy or institution, as if “America” is synonymous with the US government.

You know, I love my kids, but when they do something wrong I tell them about it. That doesn’t make me anti-my kids. In fact, it’s the parents who never speak up, who believe that their children can do no wrong, who are the rotten parents in my opinion. Similarly it’s the people who believe that their country is always in the right just by virtue of being their country who are no more than knee-jerk chauvinists.

“My country right or wrong” might be a great sentiment to have in a dictatorship, but in my view it’s about as anti-American as you can get.

---dr.M.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

It's rather odd that the people who responded were by and large not Americans. I have seen far more anti-american sentiment from those who are citizens here than I have recently from those who live outside our borders.

The sharpest attacks on this nation, its policies, government, consumerism, instituions, etc. are coming from americans.

As to why, I think a look at those making the attacks you are angy about will leave their reasons self evident.

-Colly

 

[CharleyH]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Why so many Anti-American?

The vowel/consonant ratio of the name is a little suspicios. As if that was the only Scrabbles bricks they had left.


#L

LOL - If you have ever been there, then you KNOW that there has never been a truer statement!

 

[cantdog]

It's rather odd that the people who responded were by and large not Americans. I have seen far more anti-american sentiment from those who are citizens here than I have recently from those who live outside our borders.

The sharpest attacks on this nation, its policies, government, consumerism, instituions, etc. are coming from americans.

As to why, I think a look at those making the attacks you are angy about will leave their reasons self evident.

-Colly

I don't think it's rather odd at all, Colly, some of his post was directed at people not Americans. He said "we pay more for drugs than you do," which couldn't mean he was talking to other Americans.

On the other hand, he suggested respondents shut up and write their Representatives, so maybe he was writing to Americans.

If so, maybe the Americans are supposed to take their responses to Lord Dragon's Wing and write them to their Senators, while other people should respond directly to him??

I couldn't tell who the fuck he was talking to, myself. I think it's rather odd anyone responded, period. He didn't say much of anything but to declare his veteran status, and claim American farmers don't care if they get paid for wheat or not, or some such.

Usual incoherent post.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I don't think it's rather odd at all, Colly, some of his post was directed at people not Americans. He said "we pay more for drugs than you do," which couldn't mean he was talking to other Americans.

On the other hand, he suggested respondents shut up and write their Representatives, so maybe he was writing to Americans.

If so, maybe the Americans are supposed to take their responses to Lord Dragon's Wing and write them to their Senators, while other people should respond directly to him??

I couldn't tell who the fuck he was talking to, myself. I think it's rather odd anyone responded, period. He didn't say much of anything but to declare his veteran status, and claim American farmers don't care if they get paid for wheat or not, or some such.

Usual incoherent post.

On occassion I have called you out, glad you did me in this case. rereading I can see where the post seems aimed at those outside our borders more than at the sentiment in general.

Happy holidays

 

[cantdog]

Sorry, Colleen. Testy today. I quit smoking, but now I'm off the patches, and I find I'm snappish.

Love to you, kid.

cantdog

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Sorry, Colleen. Testy today. I quit smoking, but now I'm off the patches, and I find I'm snappish.

Love to you, kid.

cantdog

Don't be sorry. I am elated you quit and I deserved it. You can't show me any more respect than feeling comfortable telling me when I am wrong. I appreciate that more than you can possibly know

*HUGS*

 

[Guest]

Sorry, Colleen. Testy today. I quit smoking, but now I'm off the patches, and I find I'm snappish.

Love to you, kid.

cantdog

Need some sex?

 

[cantdog]

Yep. But she's asleep, naving worked all night, and my sister will be visiting us from today through Wednesday, so I have some work to do getting ready.

edited to add: Which is good, because if i just sit around I wonder if the store sells my old brand of cigarettes...

 

[Guest]

Yep. But she's asleep, naving worked all night, and my sister will be visiting us from today through Wednesday, so I have some work to do getting ready.

 

[cantdog]

Your box is full, sarahh.

 

[Lisa Denton]

Cantdog is a anti-smoking commie spy Colly, don't believe him, he's delirious!!!!

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Cantdog is a anti-smoking commie spy Colly, don't believe him, he's delirious!!!!

LOL,

More power to him. I admire anyone who quits and stays quit