Why oh why don't they proofread?!?!

[SpecialK]

I have read some really great stories on this site lately. Stories I really would have liked to give a 5.

The problem? The errors within the stories. Mostly these are just typos which are so easy to fix.

As an author, you want to have pride in your accomplishment. And I know myself the excitement you feel after you finish a story and you think it's simply marvelous. You want to submit it right away and share it with the world. You think you've written the next Pulitzer.

But for christ sake, at least read it over! Fix the typos if you won't fix the grammar and spelling. Respect yourself and your readers to submit the best work possible.

Nothing irks me more (well, when I'm reading that is), than to read a really wonderful story that I'm really enjoying and getting in to, to be tripped up by typo after typo. It disrupts the flow of my reading. If the story is really good, I'll keep reading. But in other cases, I won't even continue to read the whole thing.

Want an example of a great story that I wanted to give a vote of 5 to but simply could not because of the number of typos? The Dance by daVinci. daVinci, you wrote a really great story! But, why, oh why didn't you proofread?!?!

K

 

[Thor's Hammer]

At the risk of sounding like a yes man, I echo SpecialK's comments. We all typo, but consistent misspelling is jarring. If you cannot spell, you should cut and paste the text into a word processor and spell check.

Thanks for the post, Special - it mirrored my thoughts.

 

[Whispersecret]

I'll add my voice to this, as well. Mistakes in spelling and mechanics DO have the ability to ruin my enjoyment of a story. To me, a story riddled with typos shows that the author does NOT have pride in their story.

Also, don't rely on spell-check. "It wont find awl you're mistakes." COUGH COUGH

 

[Jake2001]

Sleep on it, then....

read it again the next day ... a couple of times. Then let your mom or S.O. read it (hummmm, maybe a friend would be better).

Then, when you are convinced everything is perfect, sleep on it again before passing it on to your favorite editor.

I swear I have done all this and spell checked it until I am blind and my editor still finds mistakes that leave me shacking my head in shame

 

[KillerMuffin]

I have a story with errors on it that three separate people have proofread, printed and on screen. I use Grammatik to spell check since it will point out things like "They horse ran faster."

Typos happen, you usually discover them too late. I rate a story based on it's merit. If I paid for it, that would be different. If the typos are many and so noticeable that they detract from the story, then I will lower the vote for it. You can proofread til your eyes fall out, but sometimes you just miss one.

 

[Madame Pandora]

I don't think we're talking about "missing one" KM.

I have 3 stories posted on here...all of them have at least one typo. I can live with that. Most books I read have a few here and there.

I think what the others mean is when the flow of the story is affected by so many errors, you can't enjoy it.

Laurel must get no end of rough submissions. You can only do so much with any piece, though.

MP

 

[Tawny T]

I totall agree. I sent a note to a new author last night telling them for "Part 2" of their story, to PLEASE Spellcheck it, print it out, check it at least twice, and have a friend also go over it too.

In all humility, I can honestly say, after going over a story at LEAST four times on the screen, THEN printing it out, going over it at LEAST four MORE times with pen and highlighter in hand, dammit, when it's posted I STILL find a misteak or two! I HATE that!

It does distract, and definitely breaks the mood.

 

[SpecialK]

No, I'm not talking about that odd typo that manages to get it's way into your document magically.

You can read over a story a billion times and not notice a single mistake. As soon as it is posted for everyone to read.... as you look it over, remarking how wonderful it is, you trip over one like it's a railroad track. No, those aren't the ones I'm talking about.

Those ones you clunk over by accident, I think it's just one of those unknown mysteries of nature, like losing socks in the dryer. It just happens. Those are entirely forgivable since we all have a story with at least one of those.

I'm talking about the ones that have some kind of typo or spelling error or common grammar mistake every other paragraph. Sheesh! Have some pride people!

K

 

[KillerMuffin]

That's true, Special K, just read a story where it appears they typed it up and submitted it without doing anything else to it. Uck.

 

[Laurel]

Yeah, it drives me batty-fucking-loony-crazy. You get these wonderful submissions, but they're full of spelling errors and bad grammar. With all the stuff I've got in the queue, and all the authors waiting to see their work on the site, it isn't fair of me to spend half an hour rewriting a single piece. I spellcheck 'em, break up obscenely long paragraphs, and try to fix things that bug me, like ellipses or exclamation point orgies that run like two lines long. But after that, I figure it's the author's job to proofread their work or have it proofread by someone else. It's my job to get their work up on the site so that it can be read.

Typos happen. No biggie. However, consistent bad spelling is inexcusable. Every word processor - and many email programs - offers a spell check. If everyone ran their stories through spellcheck, it would save me soo much time, time I could use to get stories up on the site faster, and edit stories I receive more thoroughly.

The best thing you can do when you see a story like that is to write a letter to the author, telling them that your enjoyment of their otherwise fine story was hampered by their bad spelling/grammar/punctuation. Many people are unaware of the importance of these things. I had an author resubmit several pieces after a reader criticized their spelling & grammar and offered to edit them. If no one ever tells them, they'll go on making the same mistakes.

 

[Madame Pandora]

Laurel,

This is just a thought -

But, would it help you to have a few of us who'd volunteer to do some proofing for you?

I mean...you open a story that's out or format or riddled with errors, and then, instead of wasting your time, you could shoot it to one of us. We could run a spell check, break it down to proper format and then e-mail it back to you.

Just an idea out loud. I wouldn't doing something like that. It wouldn't be a FULL edit, but it might go a long way to cleaning up some of the rougher submissions.

MP

 

[circe!]

Edit aid

I'd be willing to help, too. I'm one of those wayward English Majors with an extreme aversion for bad grammar, spelling, typos, et cetera

 

[Laurel]

I appreciate the offer very much, but the logistics involved make it undoable.

What I think WILL help is expanding the Volunteer Editors program, integrating it into the new system. I want to make it so that members can sign up to be an editor through their profile. They can then edit their description at will and sign out from the program when they need breaks.

Once that's in place, I want to start a rating system, similar to eBay's, in which writers can give points or +/- to the editors they use, along with leaving comments explaining their rating. The editors could leave a comment on the writer's comments, if they wish. This way, writers looking for an editor have not only the editor's description but also comments from those who've used that editor to help guide them in their search.

This will also enable us to recognize editors who do a lot for our writers, perhaps in the form of monthly awards (toys, videos, books, gift certificates, etc.).

Once THAT'S in place, I want to promote the living heck out of the Volunteer Editors program - try to get every writer to use it as often as possible. Right now, because the program isn't really as structured as I'd like it to be, I don't feel comfortable doing so.

One of our future plans is to offer a Literotica email address to every member, which you will be able to check via your member profile page. This is complicated and will take work, but it's in the back of our heads. In my dreams, I envision a time when writers can upload stories to editors on the site, and editors could go to their mailbox online, edit the story, and send it right back to the writer's profile page email box. That would be cool!

I've never had a chance to go over some of the older stories as much as I'd like to. If you ever find an old story that's badly in need of an editor's touch, feel free to copy it into your word processor, clean it up, and send it to me along with the author name and story title. For that, I would be eternally grateful.

 

[Madame Pandora]

Nifty ;-)

It might also be worth having two types of editors. One who does a content and/or grammer edit, as well as the ones who offer both. That way, if someone is just looking for a "once over" and not a whole lot of tinkering, there is a distinction.

;-)

 

[CRaZy]

Just remember that Aussies spell a bit differently - LOL. As a volunteer editor I guess I enjoy a luxury that Laurel doesn't. If a story clearly has not been spell checked or grammar checked I send it back and offer to read it again after this is done. Usually people do it. One person sent me a rude email saying that's why they needed an editor - to correct spelling and grammar.

As a teacher, if a student has made a spelling/grammatical error with a hononym or other word that I know spell/grammar check won't detect, I fix it. If they clearly haven't spell/grammar checked, I leave it alone. People don't learn if they do not correct their own mistakes. Perhaps there could be a few guidelines, like using basic spelling and grammar checking software before sending to a volunteer editor?

 

[CW]

Just finished reading two stories and came here to vent a bit,,, realised that almost everything I had wanted to say has been said.

The only other thing that bugs me that I do not see listed here is those silly little rectangles in lieu of quotes.

I WILL downgrade the rating of a story if it's chock full of errors, plus I send a polite note to the author. Did that several days ago and got back a reply that basicly said,,, thanks for writing,,, if you don't like my style or grammar, get over it and stop being such a nit-pic.

Sheesh!!

Some people just don't want nor apparently understand help.

 

[Katerina Val-Kyrie]

I have to agree about the proof reading, it is a very important factor in writing. However, after a time, you become much to close to your work and it is very easy to overlook things. That is where an editor comes in.

When I first submitted my work a few summers ago, there was no editor's program. Thank god there is now. With the help of an editor, I was able to accomplish full rewrites on my first three stories I submitted to the site. It took me a long time, but it was well worth it. Doing rewrites is alot more challenging than writing a story from scratch, I can tell you that, first hand. But once I saw my horrendous mistakes in my first writings, I had to revise. I just had too. In revising, I did however, learn, and that my friends is what writing is all about. I am sure my revisions are still not perfect, but I can now feel proud that I gave it my best!

If new writers use the editor's program and the writers guide, which is indeed very valuable...plus spell check, they are on their way to success. Plain and simple.

Hugs KitKat

 

[Laurel]

Nifty ;-)

It might also be worth having two types of editors. One who does a content and/or grammer edit, as well as the ones who offer both. That way, if someone is just looking for a "once over" and not a whole lot of tinkering, there is a distinction.

;-)

That's a great idea...maybe incorporating checkbooks in the Editors Sign-Up page. Potential editors can choose, for example:

1) Will give general feedback on story.
2) Will give feedback on the effective characters & plot.
3) Will edit for grammar, punctuation, and spelling.
4) Will give deeper criticism on story continuity, pacing, etc.

Whichever ones they check will show up in the listing and on their 'Editors Profile', along with their description, ratings and comments. Or something. Just rattling ideas off the top of my head.

 

[Guest]

Re: Proofreading

After reading over all these last letters, I noted at least ten spelling and grammatical errors. Or don't letters count, too? <big grin> The biggie I've always noticed is the use of "its" which is possessive, and "it's" which is the contraction for "it is". The other one is the misuse of "their", "there" and "they're". However, all that aside, I do agree with you all.

 

[button]

I agree with all of the above postings. I know when I have submitted stories that I have at least one editor if not more edit, but yet when I see my story posted I still find errors! I see them and think "how did I miss that error!" I can only hope there are not to many errors.

Happy Reading

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: Re: Proofreading

After reading over all these last letters, I noted at least ten spelling and grammatical errors. Or don't letters count, too? <big grin>

Posts on the BB don't count. There is no spell check and we don't have days, weeks, or months to rewrite and wait for editorial input.

Authors submitting stories here have as long as it takes and as much help as they need to find and destroy the obvious errors in their stories.

 

[Guest]

Spelling and Grammer Checkers

I have been watching this particular thread with interest and some amount levity. Now I guess I should add my opinion to all of the good remarks that have been made.

First before I play devil's advocate, let me state that I agree that spell checkers and grammer checkers should be used on EVERY story before they are posted. Now let me say that six out of every ten suggestions grammer checkers make are so full of shit as to actually damage the story and not help it. To see an illustration of my point you can do a simple exersize. Take a story, or a chapter from a book, by a "professional" author. Copy it into a document that you can run your grammer checker on. Follow each suggestion that the grammer checker makes for you. Now re-read the story and see if you like it better or worse than the original version. Try it, unless you are as cynical as I am I think you will be surprised.

What is the point of this tirade? Just this. Spelling checkers and Grammer checkers are wonderful tools and should be used, but you have to understand that the English language, and all other languages, are not easily constrained to a narrow set of rules. Use the checkers but use them wisely, don't change sentences that work just because a grammer checker says it is wrong. Read the story again and again, paying attention to how it flows and how it reads and use your own judgement about when "Correct" grammer is needed and when breaking the rules helps the story.

Well thanks for letting me take your time with my opinion. I hope that my post spurs lots of comments so that I can see how you all feel as well.

Ray

 

[Madame Pandora]

Ray,

I totally agree with you on the issue of grammar checkers. I turn mine off. For what it's worth, the RWA and several other writer's associations treat them with a great deal of amusement. Dave Barry said once joked at an appearance that his artistic goal is to write an entire coherent article where the whole of the text is underlined in green by Microsoft Word. Sounds like fun to me ;-)

BUT...I don't think that was the main focus of this thread. We're not talking about poetic license. We're talking about:
"I sicked on her tots til she kame like a banshe."

LOL

MP

 

[Guest]

Checkers

MP,

You are, of course, right, and my post WAS a little off subject, but I wanted to push my view into the mix of posts praising spelling and grammer checkers.

Perhaps it is just my firm paranoia that computers are the only force of nature more inately evil than politicians but I cannot resist jumping on my soapbox to rail against them at every possibility. Not that I am another Theodore Kaczynski, I use computers every day. But only because they are necessary, much like politicians.

Thanks for replying and bringing more and better insight to this thread.

Ray

 

[SteamyChik]

I'm not an editor and don't even pretend to be one on T.V. However, I wanted to sneak a few comments in about what I have read.

First, I think the idea to have an Editor page is wonderful. I have a story I would like to have edited and it's hard to decide who to burden with it.

If there was an area of the site with an Editor checklist outlining the types of editing they perform, along with the stories they enjoy editing most, along with the stories they are not interested in editing, and along with a rating system much like voting for the stories now, then that would be helpful for first-timers like me.

Just to protect the most popular editors, there may need to be a place to check for "Not taking stories at this time - backlog". Or, maybe a place to put the lead time on how long it will take to get a story edited. That would cut back on some of the back-and-forth email preliminaries.

Second, one of the tools I use to proofread is actually reading the story out loud. This helps me find spelling, grammar and just plain awkward areas of the story. I try to read it to someone (they don't seem to mind *grin*) and that helps catch boo-boos too.

I'm sure that there are quite a few of us non-editor types reading this thread just to see what ya'll are saying. I'm glad I read it. Hopefully, the ideas will help my story and my proofreading.