Ok, I need some enlightenment from the ladies. Why is it that it isn't till somewhere @ 25 that you realize that nice guys are the ones you want? I mean in college, all I hear is how great I am (I'm 22 this coming friday), and how my friends (female that is) wish they would date a guy like me, and my older friends, those out of college near 25 tell me I'm damn near perfect (trust me, I'm not). What is it that you go through after graduating college??? I need to know, so I don't turn bitter!
Why is it...
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CreamyLady
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The mid-20's is generally when one actually begins to hear the tick of the biological clock, and nice guys make good daddies -- that's probably why the wild men get the boot at that time and women look for stability.
This does not apply to everyone, but it's as good a theory as any.
This does not apply to everyone, but it's as good a theory as any.
Merelan
Lady's Love
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Let me guess, and then they turn back around and keep dating the losers. Am I right? I don't even deserve a prize on that one.
It is a mystery to me why many women seem to be attracted to loser guys. Men who will treat them like shit and use them, and they keep going back for more. I have intelligent female friends that do this constantly. And frankly, lately I have been a bit ticked when they come crying to me about the latest forever break up. Knowing they will be together in a day or two.
So, why does it take so long for them to see it? (And some never will.) They probably have a bad self esteem. They don't feel they deserve the kindness you give them. That special cherishing that only a wonderful guy can give. It may sound silly but I feel, and i am not a professional at this, that it has alot to do with the way society raised them. (Don't get me started about society raising our children)
It shows them, in music, movies etc. That they are not deserving of the good guy and that the bad guy can change his ways with the help of the right woman. This may be true in Hollywood, and even in some cases in the real world, but over all I would say no.
It may also have to do with the simple fact your sweetness and gentleness scares them. They are not use to it and cannot handle the emotion and almost spiritual feeling of being treated as they deserve. They don't see that they deserve it, so turn away. Afraid you are going to see their "dirty" secrets.
I guess what I am trying to say is that there will always be women that tell you they would love to be with a guy like you, then turn away. But there are those out there, and they are worth the wait, that are looking for someone as sweet and kind as you are. Someone with whom they can mutually spoil and adore.
Not even sure if this response makes any sense. You hit a sensitive spot.
It is a mystery to me why many women seem to be attracted to loser guys. Men who will treat them like shit and use them, and they keep going back for more. I have intelligent female friends that do this constantly. And frankly, lately I have been a bit ticked when they come crying to me about the latest forever break up. Knowing they will be together in a day or two.
So, why does it take so long for them to see it? (And some never will.) They probably have a bad self esteem. They don't feel they deserve the kindness you give them. That special cherishing that only a wonderful guy can give. It may sound silly but I feel, and i am not a professional at this, that it has alot to do with the way society raised them. (Don't get me started about society raising our children)
It shows them, in music, movies etc. That they are not deserving of the good guy and that the bad guy can change his ways with the help of the right woman. This may be true in Hollywood, and even in some cases in the real world, but over all I would say no.
It may also have to do with the simple fact your sweetness and gentleness scares them. They are not use to it and cannot handle the emotion and almost spiritual feeling of being treated as they deserve. They don't see that they deserve it, so turn away. Afraid you are going to see their "dirty" secrets.
I guess what I am trying to say is that there will always be women that tell you they would love to be with a guy like you, then turn away. But there are those out there, and they are worth the wait, that are looking for someone as sweet and kind as you are. Someone with whom they can mutually spoil and adore.
Not even sure if this response makes any sense. You hit a sensitive spot.
Isabella Thorne
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now here I am in my 30's sweet Nick .. and I still like the bad boys ... men with an edge to them. 
I guess that's what keeps me so naughty.
I guess that's what keeps me so naughty.
An edge is one thing Isabella, assholes are another. I just don't get why one thing is said and another is done. I mean say what you mean and stop acting like a fool, or don't say shit period. I mean hell, I'm a nice guy with a few jagged edges, but come on, cut me some slack, waiting for women to hit 25 is ridiculous!
Isabella Thorne
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no you are right Nick .. I realized right after I posted that what I said could be misinterpreted ..
yes I like men with an edge .. no goody two shoes for me .. no way .. no how .. i like playing naughty ..
but he will respect me as an equal and never hurt me emotionally for the sake of sport and never under any circumstance hurt me physically.
... that last paragraph sounds like what you are all about sweetheart ..
and I know a wonderful sexy woman (regardless of age) will be taking you off the bachelor market real soon. *sigh*
yes I like men with an edge .. no goody two shoes for me .. no way .. no how .. i like playing naughty ..
but he will respect me as an equal and never hurt me emotionally for the sake of sport and never under any circumstance hurt me physically.
... that last paragraph sounds like what you are all about sweetheart ..
and I know a wonderful sexy woman (regardless of age) will be taking you off the bachelor market real soon. *sigh*
Oliver Clozoff
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Nick, hang in there, man. As our great leader would say, "I feel your pain." I've had to tangle with this same conundrum myself on numerous occasions.
I'm still far from understanding female psychology, but one thing I've learned is that a lot of younger women suffer from what I call "Groucho Marx Syndrome" (after the comedian who joked that he didn't want to be a member of any club that would have him as a member).
They love the excitement of the "bad boy" (remember that great Seinfeld episode?) and make it their mission to "tame" him. Unfortunately, such is the 19-year old woman.
The good news is that they DO come around. I just cracked that magical quarter-century mark and I can truly say that the ladies just keep getting better and better. I think they eventually realize that they can't change someone who doesn't want to change and begin to truly appreciate your "long-term" qualities.
This is not to say that being nice guarantees anything. Because I've also learned that sometimes "nice" is a euphemism for "boring" and women NEVER come around to boring.
So to sum up:
1. Don't lose hope and don't change.
2. They'll come around.
3. But pinch 'em on the ass every once in a while and offer to tie 'em up and lick sugar off their nipples.
I'm still far from understanding female psychology, but one thing I've learned is that a lot of younger women suffer from what I call "Groucho Marx Syndrome" (after the comedian who joked that he didn't want to be a member of any club that would have him as a member).
They love the excitement of the "bad boy" (remember that great Seinfeld episode?) and make it their mission to "tame" him. Unfortunately, such is the 19-year old woman.
The good news is that they DO come around. I just cracked that magical quarter-century mark and I can truly say that the ladies just keep getting better and better. I think they eventually realize that they can't change someone who doesn't want to change and begin to truly appreciate your "long-term" qualities.
This is not to say that being nice guarantees anything. Because I've also learned that sometimes "nice" is a euphemism for "boring" and women NEVER come around to boring.
So to sum up:
1. Don't lose hope and don't change.
2. They'll come around.
3. But pinch 'em on the ass every once in a while and offer to tie 'em up and lick sugar off their nipples.
Isabella Thorne said:now here I am in my 30's sweet Nick .. and I still like the bad boys ... men with an edge to them.
I guess that's what keeps me so naughty.
I hear you there. I am 28 (29 in September) but I like the rough ones best. They keep you on your toes (amongst other things)
Hey, Nick, you are right. They want Leo DeCaprio one day, then all of a sudden they want Tommy Lee. Us real guys, not pretty like Leo, without the attitude of Tommy, are just left out in the cold. When I was single, I had a lot of female friends that said they wanted/needed someone "nice" like me, then picked either a pretty boy or a felon.
SimplySouthern
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Lick sugar off their nipples?
Good God...that qualifies you for Bad Bay status right there (bless your heart)!
Remember that line on some thread or another about your business and my pleasure? THIS is my pleasure...take notes!
Good God...that qualifies you for Bad Bay status right there (bless your heart)!
Remember that line on some thread or another about your business and my pleasure? THIS is my pleasure...take notes!
Skibum said:
I was not a felon but played one as a teenager. You know, the rebel without a clue. Now I work with them, go figure!
My wife met me when I was 17, had long hair, an earring and had dropped out of high school. She was the original "little miss innocent." She was attracted to the rough guy image but stuck around because I was honest, loved her and treated her with the respect she deserved. My mother dumped my father because he cheated, could not hold a job and was an alcoholic drug abuser. Not all women behave in this manner. I have far too many women friends who are with abusers, cheaters, etc. Some are therapists that counsel abuse victims! I have worked with hundreds of co-dependent personalities and I know there are countless psychological reasons why women pick and stick with the losers. I wish modern medicine could simply come up with a pill that would supress the urge. The women and the chilren they have would be far better off.
Sorry, needed to vent.
Good luck Nick! You will find the right one eventually!
[Edited by Dreamer1 on 07-10-2000 at 08:01 PM]
Rosebud
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i always went for the bad boys...i think that is just something that always entices women...but then we put that to the back of our minds and look for a "stable" man to settle down with...look stable then when you get her...be bad...very bad....
Rand al'Thor
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I know exactly what you're talking about...
I'm head-over-heels for a girl I know, but she keeps dating the same stupid, cheating loser. She'll break up with him one week and take him back the next.
I don't think I'm waiting for her until she's 25, though. Next time she breaks up with that asshole, I'm going all-or-nothing!
Rand al'Thor
The Dragon Reborn
I'm head-over-heels for a girl I know, but she keeps dating the same stupid, cheating loser. She'll break up with him one week and take him back the next.
I don't think I'm waiting for her until she's 25, though. Next time she breaks up with that asshole, I'm going all-or-nothing!
Rand al'Thor
The Dragon Reborn
Isabella Thorne
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Motley Crue
well geez what can I say .. the bad boy has always been a turn on .. hot .. hot .. hot .. who started it .. was it Marlon Brando .. then James Dean for sure ..
today definitely Tommy Lee is the bad boy icon .. but alas you are right, Skibum, also a felon .. damn it all .. he is so fucking hot .. ummm k ..
well i guess in a fantasy .. it would be Tommy Lee without the violence .. there must be some real life guys out there like that ..
and yes the sex is always rougher with the wild ones, right Nicole?
I'm not so sure I'd want your magic pill Dreamer .. my sex life wouldn't be nearly as good.
well geez what can I say .. the bad boy has always been a turn on .. hot .. hot .. hot .. who started it .. was it Marlon Brando .. then James Dean for sure ..
today definitely Tommy Lee is the bad boy icon .. but alas you are right, Skibum, also a felon .. damn it all .. he is so fucking hot .. ummm k ..
well i guess in a fantasy .. it would be Tommy Lee without the violence .. there must be some real life guys out there like that ..
and yes the sex is always rougher with the wild ones, right Nicole?
I'm not so sure I'd want your magic pill Dreamer .. my sex life wouldn't be nearly as good.
Laurel
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A side note: why do all guys think THEY are getting passed over because THEY are too nice, and that the other guys who ARE in relationships are assholes? I worked with this one guy who used to whine ceaselessly about how he treated girls "too well" - he was "too nice of a guy" - and that's why he was always getting dumped. Then, I talked to one of the salesgirls who'd gone out with him and she said he couldn't make decisions on the date, wouldn't take charge (she had to decide where they were going, she had to deal with the waitresses - he didn't even open the door for her), and basically left her to "mother" him the whole date - and HE was the one who asked HER out. She didn't think he was "too nice" - she thought he was a selfish jerk who didn't care if she was there or not.
Here's my 2 cents on the issue...I think there are women out there that make poor mate choices, just as there are men who do the same. However, I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with being attracted to a self-confident guy. There's a difference between being a nice person and being a timid/insecure person - a nice person treats people well because it's the right thing to do, while a timid person tries to be inoffensive because he/she is afraid of being challenged if he/she doesn't do so.
As silly as it sounds, women want men who ask them out to take charge on a date. I myself am attracted to people (as friends and elsewhere) who stand up for themselves, and for me - as I am willing to stand up for them. I don't think it's wrong for women to be attracted to some degree to assertive/aggressive men, any more than it's wrong for men to turn their heads to follow a nice pair of legs/breasts walk past. It's nature - we can't control our first reaction. No matter how much I think Clark Gable's carrying of Vivian Leigh up the stairs is tantamount to rape, that scene still makes me bite my lip. But it IS wrong when a woman lets a man treat her badly, or vice versa.
Here's my 2 cents on the issue...I think there are women out there that make poor mate choices, just as there are men who do the same. However, I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with being attracted to a self-confident guy. There's a difference between being a nice person and being a timid/insecure person - a nice person treats people well because it's the right thing to do, while a timid person tries to be inoffensive because he/she is afraid of being challenged if he/she doesn't do so.
As silly as it sounds, women want men who ask them out to take charge on a date. I myself am attracted to people (as friends and elsewhere) who stand up for themselves, and for me - as I am willing to stand up for them. I don't think it's wrong for women to be attracted to some degree to assertive/aggressive men, any more than it's wrong for men to turn their heads to follow a nice pair of legs/breasts walk past. It's nature - we can't control our first reaction. No matter how much I think Clark Gable's carrying of Vivian Leigh up the stairs is tantamount to rape, that scene still makes me bite my lip. But it IS wrong when a woman lets a man treat her badly, or vice versa.
Isabella, I guess my point was unclear. The pill should only help certain "people"(trying to be politically correct here) avoid the ones who are abusive, etc. God, if my wife had avoided the confident, assertive, bad boy, we never would have gotten together. I still have my "edge" and will never lose it! You can find both in the same person, believe it or not.
Laurel, as for that whimpy guy who couldn't make a *ucking decision to save his life, I would not wish him on anyone!
Now there is the type of guy who could ruin your sex life Isabella!
I really believe that many of the strong, independent women on this board are certainly not the type of women I was referring to. I have just seen so many lives ruined by female clients picking the truly abusive males(not the confident, bad boys you all refer to).
Laurel, as for that whimpy guy who couldn't make a *ucking decision to save his life, I would not wish him on anyone!
Now there is the type of guy who could ruin your sex life Isabella!
I really believe that many of the strong, independent women on this board are certainly not the type of women I was referring to. I have just seen so many lives ruined by female clients picking the truly abusive males(not the confident, bad boys you all refer to).
Bushido71XS
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Nick,
Now we come to my opinion, remember, just My opinion: (1) Project confidence, most women I have met and consider friends like a man who knows what he wants, is not afraid to go after it and refuses to give up on what he wants.
Kind of like Gary Cooper in HIGH NOON, you're scared to death to go out there, but you do anyway because you know it's what you have to do.
(2) Don't get clingy, Don't call her everyday, unless you're married to her A couple of times a week is fine, and to throw the little extra bit of romance into the equation, call her at work every once in a while and just ask her how her day's going, or tell her that you were just thinking of her.
(3) Spontaneity, Nuff' said
(4) Don't worry about her past, she's with you know not that huge jock she used to see.
(5) Above all else be honest with her and respect her space and privacy.
And that's enough of my opinion. But, remember, that's just my opinion.
Now we come to my opinion, remember, just My opinion: (1) Project confidence, most women I have met and consider friends like a man who knows what he wants, is not afraid to go after it and refuses to give up on what he wants.
Kind of like Gary Cooper in HIGH NOON, you're scared to death to go out there, but you do anyway because you know it's what you have to do.
(2) Don't get clingy, Don't call her everyday, unless you're married to her
A couple of times a week is fine, and to throw the little extra bit of romance into the equation, call her at work every once in a while and just ask her how her day's going, or tell her that you were just thinking of her. (3) Spontaneity, Nuff' said
(4) Don't worry about her past, she's with you know not that huge jock she used to see.
(5) Above all else be honest with her and respect her space and privacy.
And that's enough of my opinion. But, remember, that's just my opinion.
Isabella Thorne
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yea Dreamer .. k I see .. there is definitely a difference between cutting edge and abusive .. i would never mean to belittle the plight of an aubused sister .. i know they suffer greatly and even more so if they are trying to protect innocent children ..
and i've been thinkin bout that perfect cutting edge guy .. i guess Tommy won't do cause he is such a maniac and all .. hey even if his penis is to be awed by everyone with a vcr and/or puter ..
well then .. i guess there are a lot of cutting edge nice guys out there .. Jon Bon Jovi *nice guy Tommy Lee* LMAO .. Mel Gibson ...
you see with those guys i know the sex would be rough and hot ... but they still respect you in the morning.
oohhhh and Laurel ... that Gone with the Wind scene ... i do declare Miss Laurel .. that scene always makes my petticoats moist and my bosom swell out of my corset.
and i've been thinkin bout that perfect cutting edge guy .. i guess Tommy won't do cause he is such a maniac and all .. hey even if his penis is to be awed by everyone with a vcr and/or puter ..
well then .. i guess there are a lot of cutting edge nice guys out there .. Jon Bon Jovi *nice guy Tommy Lee* LMAO .. Mel Gibson ...
you see with those guys i know the sex would be rough and hot ... but they still respect you in the morning.
oohhhh and Laurel ... that Gone with the Wind scene ... i do declare Miss Laurel .. that scene always makes my petticoats moist and my bosom swell out of my corset.
dancinvixen
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I guess for women it would have to be wanting so much for real life to be just like the movies. It took me an 11-month failed marriage to find out what I really wanted. Now I am married to a wonderfully nice guy, with a big-bad edge to him. <g>
*Eve*
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I'm not exactly sure why women prefer "bad boys' but for me, I couldn't be with someone who is too nice because I would walk all over him, not because I'm a bitch, just because I like getting my way, and that really gets boring after a while. Women do like nice guys we just want them to have a little backbone.
I guess on the scoreboard of Bad v. Nice, I land in the nice column but I never had any real difficulties on the relationship side. Relationships still come down to "Be yourself and don't be a jerk." The guys who whine (my experience and opinion only, not necessarily all nice guys) about being "too nice" tend to be doing backstrokes in the wuss pond. Being respectful and caring doesn't mean the same thing as being meek and clingy.
Merelan said:
I just read your post again and hell yes you make sense and trust me, it is a sensitive spot for a lot of folks. I pray everyday I have given my young daughters what they will need to stand on their own and not need a "fixer upper." Most that need a great deal of fixing never change anyway. My daughters will deserve someone who can enrich their lives, not drag them down. Thank you for your post and your outlook.
BTW, I am with you 100% on the friend thing. If I here another boo hoo story about Mr. latest asshole I will scream(the best come from therapists who claim they know better)!
As you clearly know, intelligence does not equal common sense with regard to issues of the heart.
Gingersnap
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I think that PEOPLE make poor choices based on many reasons.
The important thing is do they learn from these choices. I
have in the past made a choice that was a poor one. I refuse to beat myself up, I learned too much. I didn't know what great sex was until I met a "nice guy". It was with him that I came to trust enough to relax and have the best sex of my life. He is a sweet gentle man and knowing this I feel free enough to explore with him. I have seen too many women make the bad boy choice and to me it is a logical consequence of the acceptance that ill treatment equals sexy. Somehow a slug in the face or a kick in the gut are not a turn on for me. It is obvious that these are to others
I will take wit, wisdom and intelligence over tatoos and nipple piercings every time. None of those things sound boring to me. What is boring is the sterotype that if you are kind you are indecisive or weak. The fact is sex is mechanical without feeling and if danger gets you off then jump out of a plane. You can have an airgasm that is overwhelming and much less dangerous then Tommy Lee. Dreamer is a very good friend of mine and has helped me see that because he is a nice guy he is more sexy then Tommy Lee could ever hope to be. (It doesnt hurt that he a hunk and has body to drool over). I have run on a long time but it was the sense of the absurd and the fun I had that made me aroused with my guy. The fact that he has the heart of a poet does make me melt. Now excuse me I have to go call him.
The important thing is do they learn from these choices. I
have in the past made a choice that was a poor one. I refuse to beat myself up, I learned too much. I didn't know what great sex was until I met a "nice guy". It was with him that I came to trust enough to relax and have the best sex of my life. He is a sweet gentle man and knowing this I feel free enough to explore with him. I have seen too many women make the bad boy choice and to me it is a logical consequence of the acceptance that ill treatment equals sexy. Somehow a slug in the face or a kick in the gut are not a turn on for me. It is obvious that these are to others
I will take wit, wisdom and intelligence over tatoos and nipple piercings every time. None of those things sound boring to me. What is boring is the sterotype that if you are kind you are indecisive or weak. The fact is sex is mechanical without feeling and if danger gets you off then jump out of a plane. You can have an airgasm that is overwhelming and much less dangerous then Tommy Lee. Dreamer is a very good friend of mine and has helped me see that because he is a nice guy he is more sexy then Tommy Lee could ever hope to be. (It doesnt hurt that he a hunk and has body to drool over). I have run on a long time but it was the sense of the absurd and the fun I had that made me aroused with my guy. The fact that he has the heart of a poet does make me melt. Now excuse me I have to go call him.
