Why Have Dress Codes At All.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080108210454.j43titla&show_article=1

Over the years I've seen people come to court dressed every way you can imagine..or undressed every way you can imagine. Often wearing mini-shorts, flip-flops, and x-rated tee shirts. I've seen bathing suits and cocktail dresses. Usually the people are tossed out of court.

But why make students or anyone conform to dress codes?

 

[BlackShanglan]

I'm baffled on the haircut issue. That seems pointlessly pedantic to me. However, I can see where more moderate uniform/dress codes come from. They're an attempt to create an environment that consistently communicates "we're here to focus on learning," as opposed to costuming.

Of course, humans being human, it's hard to get people to just be reasonable. On the one side you've got people deciding that hair extending below the collar (but just on males) is an insupportable offense and/or distraction; on the other side you've got students who want to come to school wearing clothing with racially or sexually offensive messages or graphic depictions of violence. Or, essentially, no clothing.

It's no surprise that some schools turn to uniforms. It's often an exasperated attempt to avoid having to minutely enumerate and forbid every idiotic thing someone could do with his or her clothing. It's a pity. I'd much rather see students with more freedom to dress as they like. But when we don't choose to set any of our own boundaries on our behavior, sooner or later someone else will start setting them for us.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm baffled on the haircut issue. That seems pointlessly pedantic to me. However, I can see where more moderate uniform/dress codes come from. They're an attempt to create an environment that consistently communicates "we're here to focus on learning," as opposed to costuming.

Of course, humans being human, it's hard to get people to just be reasonable. On the one side you've got people deciding that hair extending below the collar (but just on males) is an insupportable offense and/or distraction; on the other side you've got students who want to come to school wearing clothing with racially or sexually offensive messages or graphic depictions of violence. Or, essentially, no clothing.

It's no surprise that some schools turn to uniforms. It's often an exasperated attempt to avoid having to minutely enumerate and forbid every idiotic thing someone could do with his or her clothing. It's a pity. I'd much rather see students with more freedom to dress as they like. But when we don't choose to set any of our own boundaries on our behavior, sooner or later someone else will start setting them for us.

This is also a development period when children are naturally forming clans and acting out against those in other clans or unclanned. Dress is a major way to do this, and some students either can't afford to dress clan or can't convince their parents to let them do so and they are immediately thrown at a disadvantage that has nothing to do with their schoolwork and can harm their learning. When the dress is reasonably standard they certainly will find other ways to clan up--but this one, perhaps the most readily visual one--will at least be curtailed.

My kids went to both types of schools. We didn't have any trouble with them conforming when there was a dress code at a school. When their were dress codes, we, as parents, certainly spent less time and yapping in the morning dressing ritual.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I think there's some point, too, to helping children get a good early start on recognizing that clothing is not (or should not be) the sole thing that expresses one's individuality. If your shirt or jewelry is the only thing that differentiates you from the rest of humanity, you've got more serious problems than a dress code.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

BLACKIE

All of my grandkids go to private schools that enforce dress codes and conduct codes and parental participation (my kids accompany the kiddies on fieldtrips, etc.). My personal opinion is that the government needs to get out of education and fund private schools that meet regional accreditation requirements (every region has them). I dont care if the schools are Buddhist or Evangelical or Twinky-dinks...so long as they meet the academic standards established by the accrediting board. Then let the schools set their own dress codes...or no dress codes. And if momma & daddy dont like the codes they can take the kiddies to another school.

 

[BlackShanglan]

That is one of the benefits of a voucher program or similar decentralization of education. People get more choice about the type of educational environment they would prefer.

 

[sr71plt]

I think there's some point, too, to helping children get a good early start on recognizing that clothing is not (or should not be) the sole thing that expresses one's individuality. If your shirt or jewelry is the only thing that differentiates you from the rest of humanity, you've got more serious problems than a dress code.

Doesn't always work very well for the children of people who don't have a clue or don't give a snap for their kid's education (because their parents didn't either--and on and on and on, increasing the divide). There's some rationale for a uniform, state-supplied education system.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Doesn't always work very well for the children of people who don't have a clue or don't give a snap for their kid's education (because their parents didn't either--and on and on and on, increasing the divide). There's some rationale for a uniform, state-supplied education system.

*nods* True. Any freedom of choice situation is only as fruitful as the people involved in it are willing to make it. I think that's what keeps debates like this alive. Sometimes people make bad enough choices that you really can't help thinking that it would be better to take some decisions out of their hands.

But then, the same goes for the authorities who would take control. If only both sides weren't so heavily populated with the same fallible, defective model of human being that seems to be the standard factory run.

 

[sr71plt]

*nods* True. Any freedom of choice situation is only as fruitful as the people involved in it are willing to make it. I think that's what keeps debates like this alive. Sometimes people make bad enough choices that you really can't help thinking that it would be better to take some decisions out of their hands.

But then, the same goes for the authorities who would take control. If only both sides were so heavily populated with the same fallible, defective model of human being that seems to be the standard factory run.

Agree. Most of those who think the fix is easy and the current situation is just nuts are ones who've never had any real responsibility for any of it.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Agree. Most of those who think the fix is easy and the current situation is just nuts are ones who've never had any real responsibility for any of it.

Isn't that the truth? Nothing raises red flags faster, for me, than someone who has a perfectly simple and obvious solution to any problem involving complex human institutions. It always reminds me of the Dilbert cartoon punchline: "Everything looks simple when you don't understand it!"

 

[emap]

Yep, though there is another problem that comes up all to often, usually the simplest solution is the best and last to be used.

I hate to say it, but I think sr is right, we just need to make a dress code a SOP of all schools not private and get the whole thing over with. I had a dress code when I was in school and living with my folks, dresses, well a skirt and a nice shirt anyway. My mom made me wear em and I did not own terribly many jeans or shorts, of the short variety, plenty of underwear.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Actually the solutions ARE simple; whats difficult are the people who defy the conventions and decorum.

 

[kendo1]

I wonder when the armed services will introduce an opt out for uniforms?

My kids go to private school and have to wear school uniforms. As did I, many years ago.
The school I went to did away with uniforms a few years after I left. I remember the kids back then wearing designer trainers, jeans and so on. Fashion became the uniform. They had to have the 'right' labels to be accepted. And of course the 'right' labels changed.

The school went back to uniforms a few years back, though I think this was an attempt to improve discipline.

 

[sr71plt]

I wonder when the armed services will introduce an opt out for uniforms?

The day after they forget that they need to have some way to distinguish "us" from "them"?

Or was this a trick question?

 

[kendo1]

The day after they forget that they need to have some way to distinguish "us" from "them"?

Or was this a trick question?

My point was that there is a place for uniforms and discipline.

If it works for them, then surely it can work elsewhere, ie school.

 

[sr71plt]

Actually the solutions ARE simple; whats difficult are the people who defy the conventions and decorum.

Or the people who actually have to do something about it more than sit in their armchairs in front of their computers and pontificate about simple solutions (for someone else to do).

 

[BlackShanglan]

My point was that there is a place for uniforms and discipline.

If it works for them, then surely it can work elsewhere, ie school.

Uniforms ... discipline ... hmmm.

Kendo, dearest ... I have this uniform I'd love for you to try on ...

 

[kendo1]

Uniforms ... discipline ... hmmm.

Kendo, dearest ... I have this uniform I'd love for you to try on ...

Cavalry uniform?

 

[sr71plt]

Uniforms ... discipline ... hmmm.

Kendo, dearest ... I have this uniform I'd love for you to try on ...

With or without spurs and a riding crop?

 

[emap]

I am a pervert. Just getting that one right out there so you know why I am going to say what I am going to say.

My first reaction actually was wondering if it is leather and covers anything or simply a way to have hoops and hooks for bondage on you.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SKY PILOT

I tell you what, I'll stipulate to whatever contumely you can imagine, and you work on making some relevant point.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Cavalry uniform?

Be still mine heart.

I'll carry that image with me on my journey.

 

[BlackShanglan]

With or without spurs and a riding crop?

Now really, SR. You cannot possibly need to ask, can you?

 

[sr71plt]

SKY PILOT

I tell you what, I'll stipulate to whatever contumely you can imagine, and you work on making some relevant point.

Relevant point: I think your sourness is because you are out of beer and pretezels. Perhaps it's time to send Mavis back to the kitchen. Wouldn't want you to have to get up out of your armchair.

 

[kendo1]

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g19/kendo1111/Ken-Uniform.jpg