Why Ford is a better buy than GM

[koalabear]

No bailout, no strings attached: Ford CEO Alan Mulally started restructuring Ford before the financial crisis and, as a result, managed to keep the company's autonomy and long-term vision intact. Conversely, Uncle Sam's $80 billion bailout of Chrysler and GM had a material impact on the companies -- from reports that the government made GM close dealerships too fast to a focus on fuel-efficient cars that many industry insiders thought was more part of a political agenda than a business plan. The U.S. government still owns a 27% stake in GM, and the Canadian government also owns a 12% stake in the company. In a perfect world, that ownership doesn't equate to influence, but let's be realistic: The U.S. government gets a say in GM.

While GM loves to cite year-over-year gains in its monthly sales totals, the fact is the bar isn't set very high. Auto sales in general are pacing an 11% gain over 2010 numbers, and at this time last year the company was still dealing with the fresh wounds of Chapter 11 and the bailout. GM stock hadn't even held its post-bankruptcy IPO yet at this point in 2010, so it's hard to imagine General Motors not improving year over year. GM might be improving, but has a lot of lost ground to make up.

http://money.msn.com/ways-to-invest/article.aspx?post=d66fdae4-b0bb-4296-adac-4774c7e2ea32

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

But, of course, they were too big to fail!

If the Occupy Wall Street crowd was just protesting this kind of stupid crony capitalism, I'd be with them. But, of course, they are really pushing to change us into a European Social Democracy. Because that has worked so well in Europe. (Well, except the Germans, but they are a special case.)

Back on topic, until the shareholders are compensated for their stolen stock and GM is fully privatized, it will be America's version of British Leyland (and we know how THAT turned out).

I have just two beefs with Ford:

1. That stupid deal with the UAW- in particular, a $5,000 bonus, are you kidding me, in a recession- just take the contract and get to work and feed your family, don't push your luck, lads. Bet you most of that bonus goes straight into the UAW coffers and the pockets of corrupt union officers. Unions these days represent only their executives, not the rank and file.
2. Pulling that wonderful ad about NOT taking the bailout. Show some spine. You're the only true free market automaker in America.....be proud of that. Don't let Barry bully you.

 

[bronzeage]

Which one sells a better car?

 

[Lancecastor]

The old expression "As goes General Motors, so goes the US Economy" has never been more true.

Now that the workers and the government control the means of production, Mao's Little Red Book is the Gideon Bible in the glove box of every new Chevy.

But the scarier proposition is GMAC, re-badged as Ally.

The US Gov owns 73% of that sinking ship, which is taking on water fast from upside down residential mortgage losses.

 

[BarGuy]

But, of course, they were too big to fail!

If the Occupy Wall Street crowd was just protesting this kind of stupid crony capitalism, I'd be with them. But, of course, they are really pushing to change us into a European Social Democracy. Because that has worked so well in Europe. (Well, except the Germans, but they are a special case.)

Back on topic, until the shareholders are compensated for their stolen stock and GM is fully privatized, it will be America's version of British Leyland (and we know how THAT turned out).

I have just two beefs with Ford:

1. That stupid deal with the UAW- in particular, a $5,000 bonus, are you kidding me, in a recession- just take the contract and get to work and feed your family, don't push your luck, lads. Bet you most of that bonus goes straight into the UAW coffers and the pockets of corrupt union officers. Unions these days represent only their executives, not the rank and file.
2. Pulling that wonderful ad about NOT taking the bailout. Show some spine. You're the only true free market automaker in America.....be proud of that. Don't let Barry bully you.

I agree with #2 -- they should have let the ad run, and stuck a thumb in the eye of Obama and his "car czar". The GM "bailout" was essentially a criminal act, regardless of what the Obama administration thinks.

The reality is that Ford was in a far different place than GM -- smaller, with fewer retirees and fewer pension liabilities. But still, Ford did not need the government bailout and GM did. That alone speaks volumes.

As to who is producing the better vehicles......tough to say. I see products from both I like, and consumers will definitely vote with their wallets.

 

[rustywilliams]

I agree with #2 -- they should have let the ad run, and stuck a thumb in the eye of Obama and his "car czar". The GM "bailout" was essentially a criminal act, regardless of what the Obama administration thinks.

It was Bush who started the bailouts to the car makers, not Obama.

Please get your facts straight.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7791999.stm

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

It was Bush who started the bailouts to the car makers, not Obama.

Please get your facts straight.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7791999.stm

Yes, but Obama supported it and still does. That was his point. And mine. Obama (though Ford and he deny it, of course) bullied Ford to pull the ad.

And Dubya is still in the doghouse with me over that one (and many other things, for that matter).

 

[Lancecastor]

As to who is producing the better vehicles......tough to say. I see products from both I like, and consumers will definitely vote with their wallets.

Toyotas and Hondas and Mazdas and BMWs produced in the USA are on balance better products than the Big 3 cars that are still made in the USA.

So, it's not the US workers...it's management.

Likewise, a VW, Ford, GM or other car made in Mexico tends to be crap...because the workmanship is poor, no matter how well-managed the company.

And any car made in Japan or Germany tends to be better than most anything else in its class because of superior workmanship and management.

So it depends on the provenance of the car more than the brand alone.

It's not really about Ford vs GM...it's about locational quality of workmanship and management.

 

[rustywilliams]

Yes, but Obama supported it and still does. That was his point. And mine. Obama (though Ford and he deny it, of course) bullied Ford to pull the ad.

And Dubya is still in the doghouse with me over that one (and many other things, for that matter).

Fair enough.

 

[Lancecastor]

At $11-something for Ford versus $23-something for GM , Ford has been the better buy for about a year.

No bailout, and ford has settled with its legacy workers, GM hasn't.

 

[koalabear]

Ford-UAW contract ratification at risk

The proposed UAW contract at Ford is the richest of the deals offered to workers at the Detroit automakers. In one of the key differences, Ford workers would get a signing bonus of $6,000 each, compared with just $5,000 for workers at General Motors Co and $1,750 at Chrysler Group LLC.

Over the term of the contract, Ford workers are guaranteed at least $16,000 in bonuses. GM workers would get $11,500 at a minimum. At Chrysler, the weakest of the Detroit Three, guaranteed payout is just $5,750.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/FordUAW-contract-ratification-rb-1411326381.html?x=0&.v=1

 

[KRCummings]

I sure hope Vetteman doesn't find out about this.

 

[trysail]

I tend to avoid investing in companies with unionized labor.


History tells us that union labor eventually destroys industries and their constituent companies because of their economic illiteracy and self-destructive intransigence and rigidity.


Examples: airlines, steel, newspapers, U.S. merchant marine, trucking, automobiles, tires, public schools, government.

 

[koalabear]

Which one sells a better car?

BMW.

 

[Dazzle1]

Thats true but it was Obama who screwed the invvestors to pay back the Unions.

We should have let GM do a controlled bankrupcy.

That would have voided the Union obligations and destoryed the UAW.

Which would would benefit the companies and workers, while destroying the UAW mafia

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Thats true but it was Obama who screwed the invvestors to pay back the Unions.

We should have let GM do a controlled bankrupcy.

That would have voided the Union obligations and destoryed the UAW.

Which would would benefit the companies and workers, while destroying the UAW mafia

Exactly.

 

[BarGuy]

Thats true but it was Obama who screwed the invvestors to pay back the Unions.

We should have let GM do a controlled bankrupcy.

That would have voided the Union obligations and destoryed the UAW.

Which would would benefit the companies and workers, while destroying the UAW mafia

That's true, we should have let GM implode to void the union obligations. But of course, Obama, being a union puppet, couldn't sign off on something like that.

 

[BarGuy]

Toyotas and Hondas and Mazdas and BMWs produced in the USA are on balance better products than the Big 3 cars that are still made in the USA.

So, it's not the US workers...it's management.

Likewise, a VW, Ford, GM or other car made in Mexico tends to be crap...because the workmanship is poor, no matter how well-managed the company.

And any car made in Japan or Germany tends to be better than most anything else in its class because of superior workmanship and management.

So it depends on the provenance of the car more than the brand alone.

It's not really about Ford vs GM...it's about locational quality of workmanship and management.

I would agree that the fatal flaw at GM over the 30 years from 1973-2003 was the inept executives that thought they knew how to run the company. Their designs were shoddy (yes, I can still remember my neighbor's 4-door 1976 "Malibu Classic" with vinyl seats and AM radio), and they consistently missed the market.

As I have read too often, GM cars from that era seemed to have been designed by committee, and we all know what kind of results that gets you. Even today, I don't think GM manufactures anything that I would rather drive in place of my beloved Lexus GS430 -- though the new 556-hp Cadillacs do come very, very close.

 

[Killswitch]

Don't forget that Mulally lobbied for the bailout of GM and Chrysler, asked for a 9 Billion dollar credit line if it got worse, took a 6 Billion dollar loan from the feds in 2009, and also lobbied for cash for clunkers.

 

[John Doe]

Which one sells a better car?

Ford.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

so, can we call the volt GM's the "Solyndra"

No bailout, no strings attached: Ford CEO Alan Mulally started restructuring Ford before the financial crisis and, as a result, managed to keep the company's autonomy and long-term vision intact. Conversely, Uncle Sam's $80 billion bailout of Chrysler and GM had a material impact on the companies -- from reports that the government made GM close dealerships too fast to a focus on fuel-efficient cars that many industry insiders thought was more part of a political agenda than a business plan. The U.S. government still owns a 27% stake in GM, and the Canadian government also owns a 12% stake in the company. In a perfect world, that ownership doesn't equate to influence, but let's be realistic: The U.S. government gets a say in GM.

While GM loves to cite year-over-year gains in its monthly sales totals, the fact is the bar isn't set very high. Auto sales in general are pacing an 11% gain over 2010 numbers, and at this time last year the company was still dealing with the fresh wounds of Chapter 11 and the bailout. GM stock hadn't even held its post-bankruptcy IPO yet at this point in 2010, so it's hard to imagine General Motors not improving year over year. GM might be improving, but has a lot of lost ground to make up.

http://money.msn.com/ways-to-invest/article.aspx?post=d66fdae4-b0bb-4296-adac-4774c7e2ea32

 

[Shagly]

So when will Chineese made cars be sold in North America?

 

[koalabear]

So when will Chineese made cars be sold in North America?

All-electric Coda: First Chinese-made car comes to U.S.


http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/story/2011-09-14/china-made-car-going-on-sale-in-us/50408790/1

 

[Shagly]

All-electric Coda: First Chinese-made car comes to U.S.


http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/story/2011-09-14/china-made-car-going-on-sale-in-us/50408790/1

At $44900.00 I could buy a loaded diesel pickup new.

 

[mikey2much]

this guy is something else

Thats true but it was Obama who screwed the invvestors to pay back the Unions.

We should have let GM do a controlled bankrupcy.

That would have voided the Union obligations and destoryed the UAW.

Which would would benefit the companies and workers, while destroying the UAW mafia

I have been watching you on several threads and I have yet to find one single post where you show a degree of knowing what you are talking about.

I guess your childhood was spent in a crib with rush babbling in the background on the radio. There should be a law against letting this happen to other children.
Poor Dazzle, another Rush related death of common sense.